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  1. #1

    Default General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    I thought the perfume making BNers would be the ones to ask. If I like a frag, but find it to be too powerful, what would be the first thing to do? Should I put it in an atomizer and add a drop or so of vodka or perfumer's alcohol?
    Thanks.

  2. #2

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    You can do that as the strength of the perfume in the first place depends on the dilution.

    You would have to have high proof vodka, but it would be best if you use perfumer's alcohol, which they sell at Snowdrift Farm.

    Make sure you disinfect your atomiser first by boiling, or washing it with rubbing alcohol. Make sure you also do the same for your pippette.

    Let's say the atomiser is 10ml. Dilute the current perfume slowly, adding 10-20 drops. Let it sit for a 2-3 days and come back to it. If it's a bit strong, add more alcohol. If it's not strong enough, add a drop or two from the perfume source.

    Make sure you use a clean pippette each time to avoid contamination.

  3. #3

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    I'd actually recommend using 190 proof everclear. That's 95% alcohol - as high as you can get with normal distillation methods. It doesn't have any of the denaturants of perfumer's alcohol, so you won't risk contaminating the scent at all.
    ***For sale:

    Iris Pallida 50ml

    Ungaro I 75ml

    and more!
    - http://www.basenotes.net/threads/301...n-Man-and-more

  4. #4

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Hello ,

    I'm new to the forum and new to perfume making. I was directed to this page by Envyus.
    I made 2 perfumes one with 70% alcohol and the other with 95% 2 different experiments but both clouded.
    Can anyone tell me why?
    I thought if you used 95% alcohol you're not allowed to sell it, T/F
    How can you make homemade perfume last longer?
    What's the shelf life of homemade perfume?
    For 75ml alcohol I used 1/2 cup of bottled water is this a good ratio?
    And one last ?
    Are any permits needed to sell homemade perfume?
    Mago

  5. #5

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    You can use 95% Everclear or other Tax Paid to make perfume that you sell without violating any federal laws. You want to have at least around 5% essential oils and other fragrance materials in the formulation to insure that the product is unfit for consumption as an alcoholic beverage.

    To comment on why your formulation with 95% alcohol clouded you would have to provide exact details.

    You say you added 1/2 cup water to 75 ml of alcohol. For what purpose?
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  6. #6

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    I'm too sure on this, but wasn't there a law in the US which banned perfumes made from drinkable alcohol? And thus, everyone started to look for perfumer's alcohol which can't be consumed.

    There are a few reasons why it could be clouded. One big one is contamination. If you're using just tap water, there a lot of impurities that would go into your blend. Or if you're using a defected oil (expired, contaminated, not high grade). And what sort of alcohol are you using? If you're not using high proof alcohol, it would cause cloudiness in the blend.

    Usually you wouldn't add the water to the perfume until you've let it sit for 24-48 hours. I find that adding 1/2 cup of water to 75ml of alcohol is a lot! I usually only add 2-3% of purified water. So for a 100ml blend, there would only be 2-3ml of purified water, which is about 40-60 drops.

  7. #7

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    I'm too sure on this, but wasn't there a law in the US which banned perfumes made from drinkable alcohol? And thus, everyone started to look for perfumer's alcohol which can't be consumed.
    No, absolutely not true.

    There is a website of a vendor who sells "Artisan's" alcohol that claims that there is some U.S. Federal law(s) that prohibit using drinkable alcohol for the manufacture of perfumes for sale but that information is wrong.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  8. #8

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Thank You very much. This is an excellent forum. Why added the ratio of 1/2 cup of water to 75ml water , the answer is simple b/c I was experimenting. to see what will come out. After a few weeks in turned into a beautiful after shower body splash. I used bottled water. I can't get distilled water.
    All my products are new so nothing was contaminated now about high grade ,that I wouldn't know I bough all my essential oils at a drug store. Today I created 3 new perfumes with different variations of alcohol and I made the mistake of adding water to them before I allowed them to sit for 48 hours , a beginner u c !!
    And all my perfumes clouded
    2 more questions ?
    1)why didn't I get notified of these answers am I suppose to add something so I can get informed by email.
    2) What's the shelf life of homemade perfume ?

    Once again thanks I love this forum !!!

    Mago

  9. #9

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    I'm still experimenting although I've found that adding about 10% water, leaving about an 18% concentration of oils increases longevity significantly compared to a 20% concentration of oils in Everclear (190 proof.) The water helps "weigh down" the oils and let them sink into the skin a bit before so quickly evaporating thanks to the alcohol.

    I don't think there is an ideal and fixed percentage of water that can be recommended, but suspect that it varies in relation to the concentration of your oils. Of course, most store bought perfumes have more water than fragrant material (look at the order they are listed in the ingredients.. it usually reads Alcohol, Water, Parfum, etc..).

    When initially adding the water to my blends they do cloud up, but then within a day or two return to clarity as everything homogenizes. If within a few days or week at most your blend hasn't cleared up, you've added too much water, for sure.

    Next up for me is experimentation with glycerine. Anyone have recommendations for a starting point? I was thinking maybe 2-3% of the pre-diluted blend. A simple breath of warm air and moisture brings my perfumes back to glorious life after being on the skin a few hours. I'd like to replicate that effect without the need for breath and was thinking that glycerin as a humectant would help achieve exactly that. Any thoughts appreciated.
    ***For sale:

    Iris Pallida 50ml

    Ungaro I 75ml

    and more!
    - http://www.basenotes.net/threads/301...n-Man-and-more

  10. #10

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Thank you !!

    Glycerine was my next ? too !! They say it make sthe perfume last longer , is this true?
    Another beginner ? Do any of you get headaches after all the sniffing b/c after creating today 3 new perfumes I started to get what I call a sweet headache meaning, slightly small but enough to annoy you. I would really like some feedback on this.

    Mago

  11. #11

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Hi again,

    Today I tried the fo9llowing variations:
    in 1/3 cup of 95 (195) proof alcohol I added
    50ml bottled water.

    2nd variation in 1/3 cup of 70% proof of denatured alcohol
    I added 50 ml of bottled water

    3rd variation
    in a 1/3 cup of 95% proof
    I added 5 tablespoons of bottled water

    Now I'll see which one works better
    for the time being they all smell like alcohol.

    Trial and error is all I could do !!!
    Mago

  12. #12

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    1/3 cup is only about 80ml, so I'd say 50ml of water is way too much. That's about 38% water (50/130) - plus the water that is already in the alcohol, so you are looking at

    43% water in the first
    68% in the second,

    and 5 tablespoons is approx 75ml of water, so in the last you are looking at 75/155 = 48% water + the 5% left in the alcohol for a total of 53%.

    I'd try experiments ranging in the 10-20% range of water total (figure the amount of water left in the alcohol into this figure, too).

    All that being said, I'm curious to hear how everything turns out.
    ***For sale:

    Iris Pallida 50ml

    Ungaro I 75ml

    and more!
    - http://www.basenotes.net/threads/301...n-Man-and-more

  13. #13

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Quote Originally Posted by mago View Post
    Thank you !!

    Glycerine was my next ? too !! They say it make sthe perfume last longer , is this true?
    Another beginner ? Do any of you get headaches after all the sniffing b/c after creating today 3 new perfumes I started to get what I call a sweet headache meaning, slightly small but enough to annoy you. I would really like some feedback on this.

    Mago
    For blending purposes, I work with everything pre-diluted (although of course I'll use the raw botanicals when making a true finalized blend). This greatly helps avoid the headaches that are inevitable if you are sniffing full strength oils. If you are really serious about this, I'd suggest investing in an extra set of bottles and pre-diluting everything. PM me if you'd like to know more.

    Another trick that might work is to purchase a piece of foam (or in a pinch you could use a cardboard box or something similar) and some wooden toothpicks. Dip the tip of a wooden toothpick into an oil - just a tiny bit, and then insert the toothpick into the foam or cardboard box - you can adjust the height of many different toothpicks to simulate different strengths (i.e. if you want an oil to smell weaker in the "mix", move it lower in the foam while sniffing 6-12 inches above the top of the foam.)

    This is a crude method as it doesn't help with the problem of taking an oil's evolution into account, but with enough sniffing (and isolated oil testing on your skin) you can get a really good feel of what will and what won't work together.

    All the best!
    ***For sale:

    Iris Pallida 50ml

    Ungaro I 75ml

    and more!
    - http://www.basenotes.net/threads/301...n-Man-and-more

  14. #14

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Thank you sculpture of soul.
    The cardboard/foam idea is a bit complicated.
    I will let you know the results later in the week of my perfumes I will also be recreating
    another perfume with first mixing the oils and letting them stand and then adding alcohol and
    last water. Do you use bottled water , distilled water or filtered water (osmosis) from tap ?
    I've tried bottled and osmosis it wasn't bad, since I can't get distilled water. Is there a good book any of you recommend for perfume making ? Are any of you selling your perfumes? Besides really liking this new project of mine my final goal is to sell it s, so I would like a few pointers.

    Mago

    Mago

  15. #15

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Sculpture of Soul, love the toothpick and foam technique, have to give that one a go.

    Dcampen, thanks for clearing up the whole issue about using alcohol in perfumes in the US.

  16. #16

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Good morning all,

    Today I sniffed some of my perfumes. One is going down the drain ( smells horrible) , the other one smells
    very nice but I could still smell the alcohol is it b/c it's 95% proof or do I have to let it stand a few more days, or do I have to add more of the same essential oils?

    Mago

  17. #17

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Today I sniffed some of my perfumes. ... one smells
    very nice but I could still smell the alcohol is it b/c it's 95% proof or do I have to let it stand a few more days, or do I have to add more of the same essential oils?
    Sniffed it how? You should put it on a piece of blotter paper or your skin and then wait a few seconds for the alcohol to evaporate before smelling.

    Today I tried the fo9llowing variations:
    in 1/3 cup of 95 (195) proof alcohol I added
    50ml bottled water.

    2nd variation in 1/3 cup of 70% proof of denatured alcohol
    I added 50 ml of bottled water

    3rd variation
    in a 1/3 cup of 95% proof
    I added 5 tablespoons of bottled water

    Now I'll see which one works better
    for the time being they all smell like alcohol.
    I don't understand the purpose of this experiment. Are you trying to make a fragrance for sniffing from the bottle?

    It would be much better if you could use metric measurements for everything.
    Last edited by dcampen; 26th May 2008 at 07:11 PM.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  18. #18

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    hello,

    The purpose of this experiment is to see which is a good mix for perfume, I'm a beginner. I did try the perfume on my skin it smells great but I when I open the bottle and smell it the alcohol is stronger then the oils. They don't have measuring beaks here. I use the resources that I have.
    Yesterday I bought glycerine , can anyone tell me how to use it in my perfume?

    Mago

  19. #19

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Hello everyone again,

    Today for the first time I wore my own perfume and also gave it to someone else and wore it
    and the feed back was very good although I need recreate it and to work on it. I planning to put glycerine in it to make the scent last longer. I would appreciate any ideas on how to do it...

    Mago

  20. #20

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    I did try the perfume on my skin it smells great but I when I open the bottle and smell it the alcohol is stronger then the oils.
    This is with 190 proof Everclear? I find that Everclear really doesn't have a smell, it stings the nose but a few seconds after it is applied to the skin even that is gone.

    They don't have measuring beaks here.
    Then you should buy some

    Edit:
    My comments above were predicated on you being in the U.S. but I see in another thread that you say you are in Greece. You probably ought to edit your profile to correct that.

    So, what type of 190 proof alcohol are you using?
    Last edited by dcampen; 27th May 2008 at 08:43 PM.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  21. #21

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Hi Dcampen,

    Yes, I'm in Greece so I'm limited to the resources I have. The type of alcohol I'm using are 2:
    1) 95% proof ( I made an error above ) which is the same as 195 % proof.
    2) 70% proof.
    Now I would like to use glycerin to make the scent last longer b/c I don't have access to artisan's alcohol.

    I asked some companies that do make perfumes to provide me with information but they don't , they're afraid I might take their business away , LOL

    Mago

  22. #22

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    There is not a %proof there is either % or proof. The term proof is used with ethyl alcohol. 95% ethyl alcohol is 190 proof, 70% is 140 proof (multiply percentage by 2 to get proof).

    Are you using beverage grade alcohol? I still don't understand why you find the smell so strong. Beverage grade alcohol should have almost no smell.

    70% alcohol will not be very effective at dissolving fragrance materials, you may only be able to dissolve a few percent fragrance materials in 70% alcohol.

    You can try using 5-10% glycerine as a fixative.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  23. #23

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Thanks Dcampen,

    I bought the alcohol from a local pharmacy all the bottle says is 95 proof. They told me it's pure alcohol. What's beverage grade alcohol?
    Yes, I'm planning to use glycerine as a fixative but how do I use it. Do I use it, just the way it is or do I have to heat or something else. For a 100 ml perfume , how many drops of gycerine should I use?
    Have you read any books on how to make perfume that you could recommend ?
    Thanks for all the information

    Mago

  24. #24

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Beverage grade alcohol is alcohol that you could drink. Take beverage grade alcohol, dilute it to 80 proof and you have vodka.

    So the alcohol you bought at the pharmacy, the bottle has a handwritten label? Does it really say "95 proof"? If it is really 95 proof, this is only 47%, and it is to weak to use for making perfume.

    Is it ethyl alcohol and not isopropyl alcohol?

    There are not many books on perfumery and the few that do exist are very expensive. If you want to work only with natural materials then there is one by Mandy Aftel, I don't have it and don't remember the title.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  25. #25

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    First of all I would like to thank you for taking the time to explain everything

    It writes ( not handwritten) 95 proof (ethyl alcohol/ ethanol) and while doing research on the internet I found out that this is equivalent to 195 proof This is the only alcohol I could get my hands on. It's definitely isopropyl that one has a blue color.

    Now , I took a sample to someone I know and they liked the smell and asked me if they could sell a few bottles like 10. I'm thinking about it with the next batch that I will make which will contain gycerine.
    But my concern is this: What if someone buys it and they get an alergic reaction to it , how do I protect myself (I'm not a big or small company just one person) My goal was to sell it but not this fast b/c of no capital. Do I write something on the bottle?

    I will jot down that Author I will give it to my sister in New York.

  26. #26

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    For a 100 ml perfume , how many drops of gycerine should I use?
    The amount of glycerine is based on the amount of fragrance material before diluting with alcohol.

    It writes ( not handwritten) 95 proof (ethyl alcohol/ ethanol)
    I assume that you mean "percent" not "proof".

    I'm thinking about it with the next batch that I will make which will contain gycerine.
    You may want to test using glycerine in the formulation before making a large batch. Adding a fixative to a formulation may not only make the fragrance last longer but also change the smell.

    What if someone buys it and they get an alergic reaction to it , how do I protect myself (I'm not a big or small company just one person) My goal was to sell it but not this fast b/c of no capital. Do I write something on the bottle?
    That sort of is unique to each country.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  27. #27

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Hello,

    Do you mean that amount of glycerine that goes into the perfume depends on the drops of essential oils ?
    For example.If you mix about 60 -70 drops of essential oils would 3 -4 drops of gylcerine suffice.
    Do I add the glycerine straight from the bottle? The gycerine that I have is odorless.
    It will be sold to tourists it's a souvenir shop so that's why I'm wondering if I should write something on the bottle. What do you do in the states for such a matter?
    What's the shelf life of a homemade perfume ?
    and a personal ? how long do your scents last once applied to yourself ?
    Mago

  28. #28

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    BTW

    The alcohol writes 95 with a small o at the top of the #5.
    I guess this means proof.

    Mago

  29. #29

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Do you mean that amount of glycerine that goes into the perfume depends on the drops of essential oils ?
    For example.If you mix about 60 -70 drops of essential oils would 3 -4 drops of gylcerine suffice.
    Yes, so for 80 drops of essential oils use 5-20 drops of glycerine

    Do I add the glycerine straight from the bottle? The gycerine that I have is odorless.
    Yes, you can add glycerine straight from the bottle.

    It will be sold to tourists it's a souvenir shop so that's why I'm wondering if I should write something on the bottle. What do you do in the states for such a matter?
    There is very little in the way of warnings on the packaging. I will look some more latter today.

    What's the shelf life of a homemade perfume ?
    It should last years.

    and a personal ? how long do your scents last once applied to yourself ?
    Different components last different amounts of time. Top notes are gone in less than an hour, middle notes last a couple hours, some basenotes can last days.

    The alcohol writes 95 with a small o at the top of the #5.
    I guess this means proof.
    95 proof alcohol would not be a very good solvent. So if you are able to dissolve 10% essential oils in this alcohol then I would guess that the symbol must mean percent not proof.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  30. #30

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Thank You Dcampen,

    When I checked on the internet it said that 95 proof is the same as 195 proof.
    When do you add the glycerine ? Do you add it after you have left the oils to blend for 48 hours or do you add it in the alcohol and then add the oils and then the water.
    Anyway, today I contacted ATF and they have special denatured alcohol which runs in numbers from 39 A,B, C &D , & 40 A, B & C.
    Has anybody been using any of the above alcohols?
    I was also told that you have to file a permit to sell homemade perfume well actually it's the formula they approve.

    My scents too they ware off in less than an hour I evn tried putting lotion on and then applying perfume still didn't work.
    I still have a lot of trial and error work.

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