Code of Conduct
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 31 to 52 of 52
  1. #31

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    When I checked on the internet it said that 95 proof is the same as 195 proof.
    Well check again because your information is wrong. 95 proof is _not_ the same as 195 proof.

    When do you add the glycerine ? Do you add it after you have left the oils to blend for 48 hours or do you add it in the alcohol and then add the oils and then the water.
    Add the glycerine any time before you add the water. That is if you feel that you need to add water.

    Anyway, today I contacted ATF and they have special denatured alcohol which runs in numbers from 39 A,B, C &D , & 40 A, B & C.
    Has anybody been using any of the above alcohols?
    I was also told that you have to file a permit to sell homemade perfume well actually it's the formula they approve.
    If you want to purchase and use Specially Denatured Alcohol to manufacture perfume for sale then you do need a permit and formula approval. That is why it is more convenient for a small producer to use Tax Paid Industrial Alcohol (Everclear). No permit or formula approval is needed to use Tax Paid alcohol. A permit and formula approval is only needed to purchase and manufacture for sale using SD Alcohol.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  2. #32

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Everclear is a brand of grain alcohol (ethanol), available at concentrations of 95% alcohol (190 proof) and 75.5% (151 proof).[1] By contrast, hard liquors such as rum and vodka generally contain 40% alcohol (80 proof). Everclear is manufactured by Luxco (formerly the David Sherman Company).[2]
    The catch is that water and alcohol form a mixture (called an azeotrope) that has a lower boiling point than either one of them, so what distills off first is that mixture that is 95% alcohol and 5% water. Thus a distilled liquor cannot be stronger than 95% (190 proof); there are other techniques for separating liquids that can produce 100% ethanol (or "absolute alcohol"), but they are used only for scientific or industrial purposes. 100% ethanol does not stay 100% for very long, because it is hygroscopic and absorbs water out of the atmosphere.

    If I'm misunderstanding this, please explain. Because this is the only high proof alcohol I can get anything else I need a license and a business number. It's really bad here when it comes down to provide information and help.

    Mago

  3. #33

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Misunderstanding what? Are you talking about your confusion over the conversion between proof and percent alcohol?

    Edit:

    I am trying to figure out your confusion. Do you understand that in the text you posted above, the symbol "%" means "percent" not proof?

    Edit #2:
    Are you saying that you can buy Everclear (a brand name) in Greece? I got the impression that you said you bought your alcohol from a pharmacy counter.
    Last edited by dcampen; 30th May 2008 at 09:38 PM.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  4. #34

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    % this is not on the bottle, this is on the bottle o ( on the upper right hand corner next to the five) So, I would say this is proof. Sorry about the symbols.
    In Greece it's not called Everclear , they call it "pure clean alcohol" that's why I'm so confused and I was conducting research on the internet and then I found out that 95 proof is the same as 190 proof.
    Yes, I bought the alcohol over the counter from a pharmacy.

  5. #35

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    then I found out that 95 proof is the same as 190 proof.
    But 95 proof is _not_ the same as 190 proof and the Wikipedia article that you pasted above does _not_ say that. The Wikipedia article equates 95 percent with 190 proof.
    95 proof is only 47.5 percent.

    But if you are able to make a solution of 20 percent essential oils in the alcohol then it is stronger than 95 proof.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  6. #36

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Now I understand,so now I need a stronger alcohol but where am I going to find it ? (((

    Mago

  7. #37

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Why use Alcohol to disperse your creations? Do like the Arabs and use oil. The best oil to use is Fractionated coconut oil (no smell) and it does not evaporate at the speed of light. It makes one have a long time to smell the top notes unlike an alcohol brew that blows off in 5 minutes. Using Vodka is a total waste of time, if you want to persist to use alcohol it must be at least 70% alcohol to water/oil.

    The other way to do it is use a water base with Polysorbate 20 to emusify the oils so you can use pure water in an atomizer. I have found that thick oils like Benzoin need a lot of Polysorbate to emusify them but if you do not use a good resinous base the Polysorbate smell pops its head out on dry down.

  8. #38

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    % this is not on the bottle, this is on the bottle o ( on the upper right hand corner next to the five) So, I would say this is proof. Sorry about the symbols.
    In Greece it's not called Everclear , they call it "pure clean alcohol"
    OK, I was looking at some European Union documents regarding alcohol tariffs and they were also using the degree symbol (the raised small "o") to denote alcohol content of wine, distilled liquor etc. The way they were using the degree symbol made it seem that this meant alcohol percentage. Then I found this table of measurement definitions - definition [6] for degree is alcohol in percent:

    http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/dictD.html

    "degree ( or deg) [6]
    the percentage of alcohol, by volume, present in a mixture. In winemaking, for example, a 13 wine is 13% alcohol by volume (13% v/v). This unit is also called the degree Gay-Lussac ( GL) after the French chemist Joseph-Louis Gay-Lussac (1778-1850)."

    So it would seem that the "pure clean alcohol" that you bought from the pharmacy counter in Greece is 95% ethyl alcohol and should be perfect for fragrance formulations. You should be able to make a 20% solution of most essential oils in this alcohol without any clouding.

    From the same table of definitions, here is what they say about proof:

    "proof (prf)
    a traditional unit of proportion used for measuring the strength of distilled liquors ... In the United States, ... the U. S. proof rating is equal to exactly twice the percentage of alcohol present, measured by volume. Thus "86 proof" means 43% alcohol. In Britain proof ratings are no longer used, ... "
    Last edited by dcampen; 31st May 2008 at 06:46 PM.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  9. #39

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Why I use alcohol: because when I starterd doing this and conducted research on my own I found out that most people use alcohol and this is also used in professional perfumes and somewhere down the line I would like to sell it.
    What's Polysorbate ? Is this an oil ? And how do you use it?

    Decampen , Thank you for clarifying it up and thanks for taking the time out to expalin all this to a newbie.Now , I will use it freely. 2 of the perfumes I made turned out ok. One was just a bit too watery but it smells good. I contacted an ATF chemist and she also sent me some information so now I at least have some sense of direction ?

  10. #40

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Polysorbates are a series of surfactants that can be used in conjunction with other materials by persons skilled in the art to prepare oil-in-water emulsions.
    http://www.lotioncrafter.com/store/P...-pr-16201.html
    http://lotioncrafter.com/reference/t...sorbate_60.pdf
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  11. #41

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Is this better than alcohol or are they used together with alcohol ?
    Another ? when tincturing , how long should you leave materials in the alcohol before removing?

    Magoe

  12. #42

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Ooops mispelling
    Mago not magoe

  13. #43

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Is this better than alcohol or are they used together with alcohol ?
    The use of surfactants such as the Polysorbates is completely separate from formulating alcohol based perfumes. You could use surfactants if you wanted to try to prepare water based, alcohol free fragrances.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  14. #44

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    This is very interesting, I just learned something new.
    I'm jotting this down ,right now !!!!
    Mago

  15. #45

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Ok here I go with my ?'s

    I've been in contact with someone from ATF and I was told to use a Distilled spirit from a Distilled Spirit Plant. She said that you can use this to manufacture perfume ? Has anyone used it and if so can I know the distilled spirit plant, I can't find any on the internet.

    Thanks
    Mago

  16. #46

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    I've been in contact with someone from ATF and I was told to use a Distilled spirit from a Distilled Spirit Plant. She said that you can use this to manufacture perfume ? Has anyone used it and if so can I know the distilled spirit plant, I can't find any on the internet.
    Edit:
    Here is a vendor:
    http://www.pharmco-prod.com/pages/ethanolpure.html
    Last edited by dcampen; 5th June 2008 at 03:13 PM.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  17. #47

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Hello ,

    I did some research with an ATF chemist. I was told and I was given a link with some alcohol formulas that are used in manufacturing perfumes and selling them.
    After looking at the website I decided to use formula 39-C but diethyl phthalate has to be added in order for it to be useful.
    Please give me feed back on this.

    Maggie

  18. #48

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Quote Originally Posted by mago View Post
    ..since I can't get distilled water.
    Why can't you get distilled water? It should be available at every grocery store.. even in Greece.

  19. #49

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Quote Originally Posted by mago View Post
    Hello ,

    I did some research with an ATF chemist. I was told and I was given a link with some alcohol formulas that are used in manufacturing perfumes and selling them.
    After looking at the website I decided to use formula 39-C but diethyl phthalate has to be added in order for it to be useful.
    Please give me feed back on this.

    Maggie
    Instead of going through all that hassle.. make it simple on yourself and go here:

    http://edenbotanicals.com/carrier-oils.html

    Buy some Fractionated Coconut Oil, and use the Coco Oil instead of alcohol.

    It doesn't evaporate as quick, and you can enjoy the high notes longer.

  20. #50

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Thank You CDR, I do buy bottled water from the super market but my perfumes still cloud up?
    I was asking if I could buy real distilled water.

    I don't want to use coconut oil I'm persistent with alcohol because in the long run I would like to sell it.
    Kind Regards,
    Mago

  21. #51

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    There's a difference between "bottled water" and "distilled water."

    Bottled water is usually in smaller bottles, and is usually spring water, not distilled water.

    Distilled water usually comes in jugs, probably at least a couple litres.

    Why don't you want to use Fractionated Coconut Oil? It doesn't spoil, and I'm sure people would rather buy fragrances made from Fractionated Coconut Oil than from alcohol. So the selling power is much greater when using Fractionated Coconut Oil.

  22. #52

    Default Re: General rules of thumb for diluting powerful frags?

    Most of customers seem to prefer alcohol over non-alcoholic blend (eg. MCT coconut oil). I would've thought non-alcoholic would be more popular...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000