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  1. #1

    Default Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    The Note Identification Project

    Welcome to another zany experiment.

    In early June, you are invited to explore fragrance notes with us.

    Those of you who wish to do so, obtain raw materials (natural or synthetic), and post your impressions for everyone to discuss.

    Here is my list:



    Bergamot
    Neroli
    Mandarin
    Orange
    Pink Grapefruit
    Lime
    Lemongrass

    Juniper Berry
    Lavendar
    Spearmint
    Virginia Cedar

    Orange Blossom
    Rose de Mai
    Rose
    Rose (synthetic)
    Jasmine Grandiflora
    Jasmine Sambac

    Champaca
    Genet/Broom
    Linden Blossom
    Geranium
    Tuberose

    Galbanum
    Atlas Cedar
    Orris Root
    Clary Sage
    Vetiver
    Patchouli

    Violet Leaf
    Oakmoss
    Oakmoss (synthetic)
    Mate
    Tobacco
    Oud
    Hay

    Fennel
    Galangal
    Cardamom
    Cinnamon Leaf
    Clove Bud

    Methyl laitone (synthetic, creamy)
    Nectaryl (synthetic peach/apricot)

    Myrrh (tincture)
    Opoponax (tincture)
    Olibanum (tincture)
    Copal (tincture)
    Pine Resin (tincture)

    Civet (synthetic)
    Castoreum (synthetic)
    Ambrettolide (synthetic musk)
    Habanolide (synthetic musk)
    Velvione (synthetic musk)

    Javanol (synthetic sandalwood)
    Sandalore (synthetic sandalwood)

    Vanilla
    Ethyl vanillin (synthetic)
    Vanillin (synthetic)

    Peru Balsam
    Tolu Balsam (synthetic)
    Siam Benzoin
    Labdanum




    I lack these: Ambrette Seed, Angelica, Basil, Beeswax, Blackcurrent, Boronia, Cassie, Chamomile, Coriander, Hyssop, Hyacinth, Kewda, Lemon, Lotus, Osmanthus, Petitgrain, Rosemary, Rosewood, Spikenard, Ylang Ylang, and many others.

    So, grab some. Get on board. Who knows where we'll go?
    Last edited by purplebird7; 2nd February 2009 at 12:09 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    I would like to join if it also applies outside the States.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    I'll be joining the fray with some stream of conciousness type notes I've taken while sniffing various aromatics for the first (or first couple) times. Actually, this is good as it'll motivate me to resniff some that I haven't given a fair chance or accurately taken notes of.
    ***For sale:

    Iris Pallida 50ml

    Ungaro I 75ml

    and more!
    - http://www.basenotes.net/threads/301...n-Man-and-more

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Ooh awesome. I'll join in! I don't have very much - a few fragrance oils and essential oils but I have suspicions that the essential oils are fragrance oils. Except the petitgrain... that's definitely essential oil!

    Also have Sumatra Benzoin (hmm should have gotten Siam Benzoin too for comparison), a few dried flowers and Mum's spice cupboard Awhile ago I found a little bookshop selling a bunch of resins, leaves and dried flowers... should go back and find it.

    Great idea Purplebird!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    It's defintely important to dilute the raw botanicals to say, 10 or 20% (something uniform amongst all of them) and smell them on the skin, as some change quite rapidly (galbanum for instance.)

    Heh, do we have to wait until June? I've got too many to post - one a day would take months.
    ***For sale:

    Iris Pallida 50ml

    Ungaro I 75ml

    and more!
    - http://www.basenotes.net/threads/301...n-Man-and-more

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Lol I like to sniff natural materials... can then try to identify notes better. Man, I have a long way to go!

    Yeah I think this could be an ongoing thing?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    I'm so excited! I've got company!
    Sure, use whatever you have. Essential oils or perfume oils--it doesn't matter. Naturals or synthetics--it doesn't matter. Spice cabinet, flower garden--anything you have.
    As long as you can name the note and describe it (pull out your thesaurus, it's time for the adjective challenge) or compare it to something else, you're in the game.

    Let's discuss:

    What notes do you like? We're used to talking about what perfume compositions we like, but this will help us pinpoint why we are drawn to certain perfumes or olfactory families.

    Why do you think perfumers these particular notes? (Because they are salty, bitter, fresh; they balance out the florals, adds sweetness, open up the fragrance.)

    About dilution, yes, I'm going to dilute mine in Everclear in perfume vials. I think 10% should be enough of a dilution. Some can be smelled full strength.

    However, if you plan to put them on skin, they need to follow some rules:

    This is a list of essential oils from the Good Scents Company. Click on each one, and it will give you a reference sheet with the recommended maximum amount for each oil. Example:
    recommendation for ambrette seed oil usage levels up to :
    0.5000 % in the fragrance concentrate.

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/essentlx.html


    I might give in and start later this month, but this week is definitely too busy. Besides, we need to give people time to accumulate some samples. Thanks.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 13th May 2008 at 01:28 PM.

  8. #8
    Asha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Hi purplebird,

    I have a large stash of essential oils, so will probably join you when I am able to. I do not have all the same ones in your list, but have quite a bit of overlap.

    My experience with the oils has mostly been to dilute in a carrier oil--this is an acceptable way to dilute for wearing on the skin. The best oil that will not impart a scent of its own is jojoba, which is available in most health food stores.
    Last edited by Asha; 13th May 2008 at 03:32 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Yep. There's the jojoba school and the alcohol school.
    People seem to prefer one or the other. The only problem with jojoba is that absolutes and resins will not dissolve in it.

    Otherwise it is wonderful stuff, and I use it every day. Far better than any other product for moisturinzing skin and occasionally conditioning hair. Some people have even replaced it for furniture polish to get away from petroleum products. But I digress.

    Get those old essential oils out, people. They have a shelf life and are going to go bad if you don't use them. We are going to have a good time.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    I have only a very little stash of EO's and some resin crystals, but I won't miss the fun and join! It is way too late to make tinctures out of my resins, so I will sniff them in their current state and try to report as well as I can.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Sniffing around
    I'll stop wearing black when they make something darker

  11. #11
    Asha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7 View Post
    Yep. There's the jojoba school and the alcohol school.
    People seem to prefer one or the other. The only problem with jojoba is that absolutes and resins will not dissolve in it.
    Hi Purplebird,

    I have diluted absolutes with no problem, but I have found that extracts will not dissolve in oil, probably because of the alcohol content. The resins I have are actually in liquefied form, probably from an unknown solvent, so they do disperse in oil (even though they are not really "pure").

    My Labdanum is just plain *thick* (I am pretty sure this one does not have a solvent), and will dispense into oil if I warm it by holding the bottle in my hand

  12. #12

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    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Coolness

    And thanks for the link - useful! *Bookmarks*

  13. #13

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    It is way too late to make tinctures out of my resins...
    Nah, they dissolve in a matter of days. Not completely, but who cares? It's good enough LIB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asha View Post
    My Labdanum is just plain *thick* (I am pretty sure this one does not have a solvent), and will dispense into oil if I warm it by holding the bottle in my hand
    Easy! I suppose a hot water bath would speed it up, too.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7 View Post
    Nah, they dissolve in a matter of days. Not completely, but who cares? It's good enough LIB.
    Really? Great! I've not tried myself at tincturing resins yet, but I think I've read somewhere that they need months to mature. I am going to grind my resins tonight
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Sniffing around
    I'll stop wearing black when they make something darker

  15. #15

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    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    What kind of alcohol are people using for their tinctures?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    I'm using Everclear. Only $5 for a flask from the liquor store.
    It should be 190 proof, but if it isn't, don't worry.
    We're not striving for perfection, here. We're not perfumers.
    Every day, ordinary people steep flowers and plants in alcohol to extract their scent, which is not particularly long-lived, nor is it a commercially viable product. That's not the point.
    The point is, we love scent. We love to experiment. We love to learn. And we love to share.
    We will accomplish all of these things.
    For example: I made resin tinctures. They were sticky and unsuitable to wear as fragrance--unless I want to turn into human flypaper--but they did allow me to fully experience the fragrance of the resin by itself, without other notes of perfume, and (most importantly) without burning them as incense. I am not a fan of smoky scents. By crushing the resin and dissolving it, I was able to spread it out and smell it by itself. Prior to that, I was left puzzling as to, "What is this myrrh note in Etro Sandalo?" I had to mentally tease the note out of the fragrance by eliminating all the notes that I knew, "It's not that orange note, it's not that honey, it's not that cinnamon..." I got tired of that routine, went out and bought some actual myrrh, opoponax, copal, olibanum, siam benzoin, and pine resins. They were inexpensive. I ground them up and smelled the dust, I dissolved them in alcohol, I burned them, I did everything I could to learn what they smell like.
    I had fun. So I got some essential oils, and I plan to do the same with them--dilute, sniff, mix, drag Kumquat into it (as usual) and have a good laugh. The results might make interesting reading, so I'm going to do it live, here on the forum.
    Too bad I can't get some synthetic components, too. They seem to be sold in bulk only. Maybe some of the DIY board members can chime in and talk about what their synthetics smell like.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Jillsy, I also use 95 ethanol (190 proof grain alcohol) for tincturing and diluting essential oils. And yesterday eve I prepared small vessels with Siam benzoin (styrax tonkinensis) and Turkish Storax (styrax officinalis) tinctures maturing for Purplebird's project.

    P-bird, do you know this site (I am not affiliated)

    http://www.perfumersapprentice.com/Perfumery_Supplies/

    Plenty of reconstituted notes and synthetics in small quantities (2,5 ml being the smallest vial).
    How I would like to order from them - just look at those KITS!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Sniffing around
    I'll stop wearing black when they make something darker

  18. #18

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Yes, I do know this site. Thanks for reminding me.
    I think I'll order some of her synthetics. Those are exactly the small samples that I'm looking for.
    I'll try some of the animalics--civit, musk, castoreum, leather--and perhaps some peach, some ozone, some marine. All the things I can't get in naturals.
    Great!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    I second Perfumers Apprentice as an excellent source for small quantities of aromachemicals. She may even be willing to ship overseas. The owners name is Linda, send her an email or call her at the shop.

    With aroma chemicals, many are so potent that they need to be greatly diluted to get an idea of how they smell in a composition. I like using a nonvolatile solvent to fix the aromachemical, alcohol evaporates to quickly. I often use benzyl cinnamate since it has only the faintest odor of its own. Benzyl cinnamate is (just barely) a solid at room temperature but it will dissolve at up to 20% in Everclear. Other people will use benzyl benzoate or dipropylene glycol. So, for example, to evaluate something like alpha-ionone I would use 1% alpha-ionone in a 20% solution of benzyl cinnamate in Everclear. Snowdrift Farm's Artisans Alcohol already contains hexylene glycol which will act as a fixative like benzyl cinnamate; it is just unfortunate that Snowdrift Farm does not reveal the percentage of hexylene glycol in their formulation.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  20. #20

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    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Wow... interesting reads. I've been diluting oils in Jojoba (hmm oughta find some more of that soon) since I cannot legally buy alcohol - can't even find any alcohol around here that's greater than about 46%. All this talk about tinctures is making me wish I were 18 and lived in America... I keep hearing of Everclear but it seems to be an American thing (?)

  21. #21
    Asha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    The 190 proof Everclear is not even available in all the states in the US--I live in NY and can't get it.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    can't even find any alcohol around here that's greater than about 46%.
    Have you tried this?
    http://newdirections.com.au/shop/pro...ex.php?id=5390
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    The 190 proof Everclear is not even available in all the states in the US--I live in NY and can't get it.
    It is available in New Jersey.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  24. #24

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    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen View Post
    Awesome Just you wait til I have money
    Last edited by jillsy; 16th May 2008 at 10:26 AM.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Thanks, dcampen, for the tip on fixative.
    In addition, I think most of the natural essential oils will benefit from being put into a sweet, diffusive base, like musk or sandalwood.
    Which of the many listed on PerfumersApprentice do you like?
    jillsy, just get some jojoba oil and use that instead of alcohol.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 16th May 2008 at 01:42 PM.

  26. #26
    Asha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen View Post
    It is available in New Jersey.
    LOL, well it is too bad NJ is over 300 miles away

    Next state over is PA, and they are quite strict, so I doubt they have it.

    Not sure if Canada might...and that is a bit closer

    EDIT: dcampen, I was mistaken--I CAN buy the 190 proof here in NY...if anybody was selling it!
    Last edited by Asha; 16th May 2008 at 07:53 PM.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    I think jojoba is lovely. If I didn't have absolutes, I would use that instead. It's just that you have to pick one or the other--alcohol or jojoba--and alcohol works with both essential oils and absolutes, but jojoba doesn't dissolve some things.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Good musks that Perfumer's Apprentice carries are - Ambrettolide, Ethylene Brassylate, Exaltolide, Galaxolide, Habanolide and Velvione.

    Ambrettolide, Exaltolide, Habanolide and Velvione are in the same chemical classes as natural musks.

    Ambrettolide, Exaltolide and Habanolide are macrocyclic lactone musks like those from Angelica and Ambrette seeds.
    http://www.bojensen.net/EssentialOil...1.htm#Ambrette

    Ethylene Brassylate is not found in nature but approximates the chemical structure of the macrocyclic lactone musks. Its use began before chemists learned how to make the nature identical macrocyclic lactone musks. It is still widely used because it is very inexpensive.

    Velvione is a macrocyclic ketone musk, similar to those from animal sources.
    http://www.bojensen.net/EssentialOil...ils20.htm#Musk

    Galaxolide is a polycyclic musk, these are not found in nature. Galaxolide is _widely_ used. I smell it everywhere. J Lo Love At First Glow that was discussed here recently has probably about 1/3 of its fragrance materials being Galaxolide.
    Last edited by dcampen; 16th May 2008 at 06:58 PM. Reason: Correct name of J. Lo fragrance
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    David, you're a treasure chest of knowledge - thank you for all the information! And it's decided: I'm going to contact Linda from the Perfumer's Apprentice for one of those kits.
    Last edited by Lady_in_Black; 16th May 2008 at 06:45 PM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Sniffing around
    I'll stop wearing black when they make something darker

  30. #30

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Thanks for the recommendations, dcampen.

    My goal is to get some synthetic florals, too, and compare them to the naturals, see how close they come to eachother in terms of aroma, and puzzle over each one's contribution to perfumery. Plus, I'll try a few animalics, florals, fruits, woods, etc.

    I'm not going into the perfumery business, so I won't buy the basic building blocks (damascones, aldehydes, hedione, etc.) I'll just get the pre-made synthetic accords. (Although I am curious about how every chemical smells, the investment in time and money would be too great.)

    Anyone who has anything, join in. Say why this ingredient has pleased you or disappointed you, if it worked for you or not.

    LIB, welcome aboard. I appreciate anyone here playing this game with us. It's all light-hearted, lots of laughs involved. Positive and negative opinions encouraged, but no flaming.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 17th May 2008 at 03:04 PM.

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