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  1. #121

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    LIB, I wonder what would happen if you put all of the lily notes together and laid them on a sandalwood base. Would they make up for each other's shortcomings? Or would they cancel out each other's strong points. Try it and report back, please.

    That is similar to the experiments that will be performed at the end of this project.
    *purplebird7 rubs hands together and chuckles diabolically, "I have plans for my victims."*

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    Lilial: ...I could easily take it for the scent of lilac instead.
    Oooo! Oooo! Lilac. Gimmie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    [Lyral[/B]: slightly less LotV and more spicy/green lily than the other two, as if the floral note were dusted with white pepper.!
    Hah, I bet I've smelled that one before. I bet they put it in perfumes to "modernize" the lily accord.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    [Linalool: aha, this is an interesting, widely used note....In this phase I am able to associate the scent with a green floral note - the smell of tulips comes to my mind.
    More excitement. I love the tulip note. Tulip, hyacinth, all the waxy spring flowers that come from bulbs.

    Okay, I will wait for more floral reports.
    Then feel free to do the spices--it is a small category consisting mostly of the cooking spices derived from seeds, usually ground up, plus a few roots such as ginger and galangal, and Iso-Butavan (which I don't know).
    I have moved the green spices (such as rosemary, thyme, etc.) to the Aromatic/Wood category and will save it for another day.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 15th June 2008 at 05:10 PM.

  2. #122

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    i tried to catch up on the florals with frangipani and lindenblossom (both fragrance oils). but now i have run out of bottles for the dilutions after doing the frangipani. so the frangipani it is.


    frangipani (perfume oil, 10% alc.): it´s sweet and floral with strong powdery notes, and a hint of honey. nice and smooth. as i have never smelled a frangipani i cannot tell if this is how the flower smells. but for some reasons the scent of lillies comes to my mind although i am not even sure if and how lillies smell! the ones in my garden still need a week or two to flower.

  3. #123

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    having written this i was in for a nice surprise and this is why: some days ago i talked to my supplier for the perfume oils i have wanting to know if she could supply me with more information about them. she said they are from different manufacturers and named gracefruit as one of them. so just now i looked up their website, found the frangipani oil and they even gave the ingredients they used on it: and the top was Butylphenyl Methylpropional, trade name: lilial, a synthetic lily fragrance! i just am very happy that i seemed to have the lily smell in my memory wíthout even knowing it!

    for those of you who want to look it up:

    http://www.gracefruit.com/Downloads/...0Allergens.pdf

    they give these allergens information for all the fragrance oils they offer. but this is only a small part of the whole formula, right?

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    Hedione...wow - this is Eau Sauvage alright! I can see why this synth is so popular ....
    Here is my confession--I still haven't smelled Eau Savage. (I feel like a newbie all over again.) Helionol is something I have been excited about smelling for a long time, mainly because I heard that it puts the "life" and freshness back into floral notes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    Ionone alpha...smells like violets without those candied notes that I loathe. I believe I can smell also a myrrh-like note in there. Hands down, one of my favourite synthetic molecules in my kit.
    Ditto on that candy note in violet. I always register it as grape.
    This must be a beautiful substance
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayala View Post
    Linalool is present in several herbs but is at its highest concentrations in rosewood, ho-wood and ho leaf.
    Hi Ayala!
    My respect goes to you for being able to create beautiful fragrances from these natural substances--without synthetic support.
    Now that I have smelled them, I know how hard this must be.

    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    ... lilial, a synthetic lily fragrance! i just am very happy that i seemed to have the lily smell in my memory wíthout even knowing it!
    Cool!
    That's wonderful.
    Your work is paying off.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 16th June 2008 at 01:48 AM.

  5. #125

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    Nobody chiming in with his/her floral notes?

    I'll join Purplebird and start smelling spices
    And while I'm at it, I'll also add two synthetic gourmand notes, since my category was mixed spice/gourmand.

    Vanilla: source Madagascar, from biologically grown vanilla pods by means of ethanol extraction. I diluted initially at about 10% in grain alcohol, then I upped the concentration a little bit. The extrait is dark brown, the dilution is light brown and cloudy (not clear). My goodness, this cost me even more than my 10% Rosa Damascena EO - I had no idea vanilla was such an expensive material. But then, vanilla from Madagascar is apparently the best in the world.
    This is a wonderful, mouthwatering vanilla with a slight caramel facet. The stronger concentration smells distinctly like whole vanilla pods smell. As it dries down, the imagery is that of an angel cake fresh from the oven which has just been covered by a snowfall of powdered sugar. It speaks of joyful childhood and tender memories. No wonder that its smell has a calming, balancing effect!

    Isobutavan, 2% in carrier oil: I was eager to smell one of the molecules that is used to render a vanilla-like effect with nuances of "white chocolate, cream soda and soft apricot", but am sorry to say that I can't smell a thing. I guess the concentration is too low for me to smell it ... probably my fault. All I can understand is that it's a sweet smell.

    Adoxal aka known as Meringue Aldehyde, 2% in carrier oil: interesting, strong and weird! This smell makes me smile as I think of the wonders of chemistry. First of all, yes, it smells like beaten egg white with a dose od sugar, a meringue batter before it is cooked! I smell the egg white more than any other facet, and it's egg with a scintillating metallic effect. I don't think this one is meant to be smelled alone, so I will try some small mixing experiment (at the end of our sniffing). I am glad that I could experience it.
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  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post

    Adoxal aka known as Meringue Aldehyde, 2% in carrier oil: interesting, strong and weird! This smell makes me smile as I think of the wonders of chemistry. First of all, yes, it smells like beaten egg white with a dose od sugar, a meringue batter before it is cooked! I smell the egg white more than any other facet, and it's egg with a scintillating metallic effect. I don't think this one is meant to be smelled alone, so I will try some small mixing experiment (at the end of our sniffing). I am glad that I could experience it.
    I wonder if that is the main ingredient of By Killian's Love? The Guide classifies it as meringue, but on my skin I got more of a confection scent rather than beaten eggwhites with sugar. Maybe it hasn't clicked yet for me, though--that sometimes happens with scents I can't quite put together.

  7. #127

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    LIB:I am saving my vanillas for the end, where I have lumped them in with the resins because amber is so vanillic to me.
    I will say this much: I fell in love with my Madagascar vanilla absolute too. I'll talk about it more at the end with the synthetic vanillas and the ambers, but it was complex, with caramel and butterscotch undertones. Yummy.
    LIB, I need some information from you. Please check your PMs.
    Asha, is By Killian's Love a gourmand fragrance?

    Redneck Perfumisto finally got his perfumer's alcohol--just before he left for his scheduled vacation... He will return to us on Sunday and promises to go to his lab (yes he has an actual laboratory in his house) and start diluting and reporting. Good man.

    Anyway, for you convenience, here is a complete schedule of the rest of the notes (please let me know if I've missed anything):

    Spices We Love - cooking type
    (Some of these I've done, but if you have them, you can do them, too.)
    Black Pepper (also pink, white)
    Allspice
    Anise
    Cardamom - done
    Cinnamon - done
    Clove - done
    Fennel - done
    Galangal - done
    Ginger
    Iso-Butavan - done
    Cocoa or Chocolate (just because it goes well here)
    Coffee (ditto)
    Adoxal - done

    The Sweetest Bases - Amber and Vanilla
    Amber and Labdanum
    Vanilla
    Methyl laitone

    Balsams and Incense
    Incense - Olibanum, Opoponax, Myrrh, Copal, Pine
    Styrax
    Siam Benzoin
    Balsam - Tolu, Peru, Fir

    Leaves Roots & Stems - Green and Woody Goodness

    Citrusy – like citrus peel
    Citronella
    Lemongrass
    Linalool
    Litsea cubeba
    Rosewood

    Aromatic – fresh, volatile, camphoraceous
    Lavender – Crossover from florals
    Geranium – Crossover from florals
    Juniper berry
    Virginia cedar
    Himalayan Cedar
    Texas Cedar
    Cypress Leaf
    Pine
    Eucalyptus
    Tea tree
    Wormwood

    Herbal– fresh, minty, sweet or bitter
    Basil
    Thyme
    Rosemary
    Myrtle
    Peppermint
    Spearmint

    Leafy– green, live-plant
    Galbanum
    Violet Leaf
    Leaf alcohol

    Soft Woods– rooty, clear, plantlike
    Atlas cedar
    Clary sage
    Orris
    Oakmoss

    Hard Woods– lumber, dark, or earthy
    Sandalwood
    Oud
    Vetiver
    Patchouli

    Haylike – sweet, thick, dried grass
    Coumarin
    Hay
    Mate
    Tobacco

    Miscellaneous - I don't know where these belong. I'll leave it up to you to decide.
    Amyris
    Angelica
    Birch leaf
    Blue Gum
    Helionol
    Hyssop
    Iso-E Super
    Kephalis
    Lavandin
    Muhuhu
    Nagarmotha
    Niauli
    Palmarosa
    Spikenard

    Animalics - Tame and Wild
    Musks
    Ambrox
    Adoxal
    Ambrette seed
    Quinoline
    Civit
    Castoreum



    And there you have it, the rest of our "multi-course meal" of perfume notes.
    Work at your own speed. If we proceed in this order, it should all fall into place.
    I'll keep track and post my notes as we go.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 18th June 2008 at 03:00 PM.

  8. #128

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    Thanks Purplebird, the exams went alright Love the picture of all your oils and synthetics!

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7 View Post
    You gave a nice description, though, LIB.
    I expected the "maple syrup" note too. I was one of the testers for Ayala Moriel's Imortalle l'Amour perfume, and it was positively dripping with maple aroma.
    Yes, being the gourmand loving type I really liked that one. I think I may need to buy myself another sample before deciding whether it's FBW - mine leaked in the mail.

    Anyway, after testing this I tried L'Aftelier Boheme Immortelle, expecting it to have the rich spicy maple syrup smell that Immortelle l'Amour had, but it smelled nothing like it. To my nose it was rather green and soapy, perhaps with a bit of citrus. So I'm not too sure what the Immortelle flower smells like anymore!

    Ooh spices and woods. Awesome. Got a coupla questions: how faithful is Guerlain Vetiver to actual vetiver? And what exactly is amber? I take it they don't use fossilized tree sap right?

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asha View Post
    I wonder if that is the main ingredient of By Killian's Love? The Guide classifies it as meringue, but on my skin I got more of a confection scent rather than beaten eggwhites with sugar. Maybe it hasn't clicked yet for me, though--that sometimes happens with scents I can't quite put together.
    Yes, Asha, it seems to have been used by Calice Becker in By Kilian's Love. Do you have The Guide? Linda (Perfumer's Apprentice) mentions Luca Turin's description of adoxal in there.
    I will check if I have a sample of Love to compare it with my Adoxal dilution. However, Adoxal would be only one molecule used in the perfume....and I wonder whether somebody would really be content of smelling like beaten egg whites and sugar
    Last edited by Lady_in_Black; 17th June 2008 at 11:03 AM.
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  10. #130

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    Egg whites alone don't smell very good. It's like you say, a building block meant to be used with vanilla or marzipan aromas.

    And I've never smelled Guerlain Vetiver. The nicest sample of straight vetiver I got was a vial of Ayala Moriel's test fragrance, Vetiver Blanc. She had several of them: Vetiver Blanc, Vetiver Noir (with coffee notes), Wylde Vetiver (with earth notes, like the Ruh Khus that I have in my project), and Vetiver Racinettes (with spices, which became the fragrance that she eventually marketed.) You can order samples of all of them from her. It was worth it, just to find out what good vetiver smells like. Personally, I liked the Vetiver Blanc in its simplicity; it was meant to be a study of plain vetiver, and it contained vetiver from several different countries.

  11. #131

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    LIB, yes, I have The Guide--its review of Love is the reason I tried it. I see now that LT does mention Adoxal. The two word descriptor is "vanilla meringue", and he gave it four stars. I really didn't get the egg-white comparison, but as you say, I am sure it is rounded out by other ingredients. On me, it smelled more like a high quality confection--not quite cake batter, not quite candy, but somewhere in between.

    Purplebird, I suppose it would be a gourmand since it smells edible and is rather dessert-like.

  12. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Got a coupla questions: how faithful is Guerlain Vetiver to actual vetiver? And what exactly is amber? I take it they don't use fossilized tree sap right?
    Jillsy, I smelled Guerlain's Vétiver and wasn't impressed by it. Actually, I have always stated that vetiver was among my least favourite notes in fragrances. But lo and behold! Look out for my impressions on the REAL vetiver I eventually smelled in this project :brolly:
    Amber as a note in scents was originally ambergris, the substance expelled (thrown up) by sperm whales, which floats and matures for months, if not years, on the ocean surface. Ambergris is allegedly rarely used in perfumes nowadays on account of its low availability and high cost. In modern perfumes the "amber" note is actually a mix of resins from trees and plants - mainly rockrose (labdanum), which yields the sweet, powdery note we all know.

    I have bought real ambergris tincture for this project. It smells NOWHERE near the amber notes I am familiar with. More when we discuss the animalic notes

    Dear fellow expert Basenoters, my explanation for jillsy is intentionally short and simple, but if I have made some untrue statements, please chime in!
    Last edited by Lady_in_Black; 17th June 2008 at 04:14 PM.
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  13. #133

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    i am going away for a one week holiday tomorrow morning. so i will be late for the spices. by the way, i have just found a little bottle of saffron essential oil. spice category? anyway, i will do that when i return.

    my holiday has a little connection with our project: i will be staying with a friend on an island in dalmatia who makes essential oils from the herbs that grow locally: lavender, immortelle, rosemary... so it is quite likely that i will return with some new samples for our portfolio.

    this evening - having pondered about it long enough - i will also order the aromachemicals kit 1 and kit 2 at TPA, exchanging some of the reconstitutions for calone, coumarin and indole adding oakmoss and - how could i not - the ambergris tincture.

    looking forward to my return reading the whole lot of all your interesting notes at once and maybe having more material to discuss and share.

  14. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    Look out for my impressions on the REAL vetiver I eventually smelled in this project :brolly:!
    Oh, yeah. That's what I like. Revelations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    I have bought real ambergris tincture for this project. It smells NOWHERE near the amber notes I am familiar with. More when we discuss the animalic notes
    Hooray. I always wanted to know what that smells like. Fecal? Marine? Sweet? Oily? What happens when you put it on and spray a perfume over it? Oh, I have questions...
    (I'll wait to find out when we reach the the animalic section.)

    tamora have a nice time. I'm sure you will; it sounds divine. I have a friend here in town who is a chemical engineering professor, and she has promised to do the same thing with me this summer--distill essential oils. She has rosemary, and I have decided to try cilantro and see what we get out of it. Then we can send the results around.
    But you've really got me beat on location--an island in Dalmation vs Nebraska.

    Does anybody have other ideas of what to distill once we get the apparatus set up?
    Last edited by purplebird7; 18th June 2008 at 01:37 PM.

  15. #135

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    Thanks for the explanations Purplebird and Lady in Black.

    I smelled Vetiver Racinettes - it was very different to the Guerlain one but most people seem to say Guerlain Vetiver is more a reference one. I wasn't too thrilled with Guerlain Vetiver but it worked nicely under a lot of other fragrances. The Racinettes was much more herbal I think. My favourite vetiver so far is the offering from L'Occitane.

    Ahhh ok, I didn't realise amber and ambergris were so closely related. Have heard of labdanum but no clue what it smells like - looking forward to everyones thoughts on it.

    Have fun Tamora!

  16. #136

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    Here's a photo of a man harvesting labdanum, which is the sticky resin from the rock rose shrub, or Cistus ladanifer:

    You know, since we've already started talking about them, I'm going to do the resins and vanillas next.

    It seems logical, and I'd like to be flexible about this.
    So dispite the fact that I was going to
    Save the Deserts for Last...

    Here are The Sweetest Bases: Amber and Vanilla.

    Labdanum, #1, Spain – Very sweet, vanillic, pine lumber. This is the classic “amber” fragrance. Full, woody, complex aroma. This is what KuumbaMade Amber Paste smells like. Very gooey, orange substance that needs to dissolve in alcohol overnight.

    Labdanum, #2, Spain – Very sweet, vanillic, pine lumber, this darker labdanum has some molasses undertones. This substance is what Madini Ambargris smells like. Gooey, darker reddish orange.

    Labdanum, Clear, Spain – Very similar to #1, perhaps a bit lighter.

    Vanilla, absolute, Madagascar – The Queen of Deserts. Very sweet. Strong, full, rich aroma. Like the best cooking vanilla one has ever smelled. Complex with caramel and butterscotch undertones. Wonderful.

    Vanilla Bourbon, absolute, CO2 – Like the above vanilla, only a bit clearer, less complex, and probably more mixable with other notes.

    Ethyl Vanillin, synthetic – Similar to vanilla absolute but with fewer undertones, more “plain” than natural vanilla. This is like French vanilla ice cream. Perhaps it has a tiny bit of a chocolate undertone.

    Vanillin, synthetic - The clearest vanilla of all of my samples. This is like the plain, white, vanilla ice cream. Fewest undertones, probably the easiest to mix.

    Methyl laitone, synthetic – Smells exactly like—coconut cream pie. Yum-yum-yum.
    And there you have it—the desert cart.

    Also included in this category are:
    Balsams and ResinsHere are the ones that I have:

    Peru Balsam, unknown origin – Complex, sweet, woody, dry paper, amber, clashing evergreen or juniper undertones. I’m not fond of this one.

    Tolu Balsam, synthetic – Interesting, sweet, strong cinnamon-like amber.

    Siam Benzoin, Southeast Asia – Fascinating note. Sweet, nutty, vanillic, with almond-cherry undertones.

    You may think that I am digressing because I am going to discuss incense notes first. This is untrue. Incense notes come from resin, just like amber does. I made some Incense Tinctures because many of the resin notes were difficult for me to identify until I bought some resins, ground them up and diluted them or burned them on charcoal.

    Myrrh, India– Nutty, woody, with a strange latex undertone.
    Opoponax, Kenya – Nutty, smooth, old wood aroma.
    Copal, Peru – Used extensively in churches in Mexico and Central America. Eucalyptus undertones, outdoorsy, fresh.
    Pinon Pine, USA – Used in religious rites by North American Natives. Freshly cut pine lumber, outdoorsy, bonfire wood.
    Olibanum, India – The classic frankincense note. Sweet, lemon-orange-pine, dusty, aromatic. Used exentsively in churches in Europe and North America.

    LIB, dear, you have Siam Benzoin, Frankincense, Myrrh, and Turkish Styrax to add.
    Redneck, if you read this, you have Fir Balsam, some Labdanums, and Styrax (Liquidambar.)
    Last edited by purplebird7; 18th June 2008 at 03:05 PM.

  17. #137

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    P-bird, you're way ahead of me! I am limping behind and have still my spices to finish
    Here they are:

    Black Pepper, 2% dilution in carrier oil: in this form, it is soft and has a warm character. It has definitely less bite than white pepper. I see it spicing up floral notes nicely, but rose in particular. Pity it had nil staying power.

    Ginger, obtained by distillation, 10% dilution in ethanol - origin: Sri Lanka: judging by the aroma and taste of pickled ginger (I never tried fresh roots) I imagined it to be more piquant and less lemony. Maybe I should increase the concentration a little bit. In its current dilution, it smells like verbena leaves/green lemon peel with a slightly floral background. Pleasant, but not what I imagined. Longevity was also low.

    Cinnamon bark (cassia), origin unknown, 5% dilution in ethanol: I chose to start with a lower concentration and did well. This is an extremely potent and long lasting note and it smells (well, don't laugh, I don't know how else I should describe it) like the cinnamon sticks or powder used in cooking . It has way more more personality than black pepper or ginger. I love it, but this I knew already! Of the scents I tried featuring cinnamon among the predominant notes, I'd say the Korres Vanilla & Cinnamon Body Water is the one truest to the EO.

    --------------------
    Purplebird, I am very curious about the two balsams you smelled, the Peru and the Tolu. Especially the Tolu sounds like something I'd adore.
    And did you solve the sticky-icky thing with the Benzoin tincture? My benzoin and myrrh ones are terrible and when they dry, the form a sort of waterproof layer which I succeed in eliminating using acetone. On the other hand, the Turkish Storax tincture is pitch black and stains awfully. Ha!
    Last edited by Lady_in_Black; 18th June 2008 at 07:41 PM.
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  18. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    P-bird, you're way ahead of me! I am limping behind and have still my spices to finish
    Sorry, sorry. My workstyle is manic, but I don't expect everyone to be this way.
    This weekend, when Basenotes shuts down, everyone can catch up.
    I apologize for my frenetic pace--I'm only trying to make progress so that our readers don't become bored.
    I'll stop for awhile and let you guys post.
    Please signal me when you are ready to move on.
    When everyone has caught up, we will tackle the big category of Leaves, Roots, and Stems - Green and Woody Goodness and our last category of Animalics - Tame and Wild.

    jillsy, you've got coffee, coconut, chocolate, cinnamon, ginger, pepper, allspice, and star anise in the current catetory of Spices We Love. Plus you can post about any of the florals you didn't get to do while you were studying. We haven't heart anything about chamomile yet, and you have violet and geranium, too.

    whispering leaves, you have the "Perfumery Notes Kit," but I don't think it has alot of spices or ambers in it, does it? Unless I am looking at the wrong kit.

    Redneck Perfumisto will return Sunday to find the forum offline, but he will be able to move forward now that he has his alcohol. And the entire forum will soon be running at full speed with the new server. Wonderful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    ... I am very curious about the two balsams you smelled, the Peru and the Tolu...And did you solve the sticky-icky thing with the Benzoin tincture?
    The Peru Balsam was a natural substance , complex in its aroma, but it had a bit of the same, off-putting odor that occurs when one crushes the needles of a juniper (or fitzer) bush. Personally, I think those needles smell a bit like urine. This off-note does fade fairly quicky, though, from the essential oil, and the balsamic aroma is pleasant. The juniper berry is another story, though. It is very pretty, and I will cover it in the next section, Aromatics.

    The Tolu Balsam was a synthetic and, as such, it was changed to accent everything that is good about its scent and exclude all of the bad characteristics. Therefore, it smelled more simple, and it had a strong cinnamon aspect. I thought it was very exciting and useful, especially as a base for an Oriental fragrance, you know, something like Youth Dew or the newer gourmands. I liked it better than the natural Tolu sample that I have.

    Did I solve the stickiness issue? I had to put the alcohol into the sample vials because the samples simply did not come out. Then I had to let them sit overnight. The dilution poured out the next day.

    My incense tinctures are thin and pourable; however they always dry sticky on the skin, much stickier than the essential oils that are professionally extracted.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 19th June 2008 at 05:37 PM.

  19. #139

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    Here comes my first batch of resins!

    Benzoin, natural crystals, origin Siam, tinctured in ethanol, ratio approx 1:1 in volume: I found out I am definitely a benzoin lover. This resin has a warm, comforting but at the same time sensuous smell. Deeply vanillic with sweet citrus accents. Sweetly smoky but devoid of any incense facet. The crystals were yellow/brownish and were crushed fairly easily to a thin powder which dissolved completely in the alcohol. They were also highly fragrant in their un-tinctured state.

    Please help me in my new quest: finding a perfume where the main note is benzoin!

    Myrrh, natural crystals, origin Somalia, tinctured in ethanol, ratio approx. 1:1 in volume. These crystals were another story - much harder to crush and didn't dissolve well. In fact, there is still quite an amount of "sand" in my tincture. Almost unscented in its un-tinctured state, myrrh was a great satisfaction . It reflects what I identified as the myrrh note in perfumes. Moist, earthy, almost leathery, with just the tiniest spicy aspect, but also luminous and golden. As I always stated, it reminds me of freshly picked and sliced mushrooms. After having experienced the real thing, I can say that the best and truest myrrh note I have smelled is in Serge Lutens La Myrrhe.

    Oops, forgot to say: P-bird, both tinctures are pretty thin, but I'd really like to get rid of the sticky/waterproof layer characteristic. They stay on skin even after washing with hot water and soap ... as I said, the only way is nail lacquer remover. How do perfumers tackle this??
    Last edited by Lady_in_Black; 19th June 2008 at 08:06 PM.
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  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    Benzoin, natural crystals, origin Siam, tinctured in ethanol, ratio approx 1:1 in volume: I found out I am definitely a benzoin lover. This resin has a warm, comforting but at the same time sensuous smell. Deeply vanillic with sweet citrus accents. Sweetly smoky but devoid of any incense facet. The crystals were yellow/brownish and were crushed fairly easily to a thin powder which dissolved completely in the alcohol. They were also highly fragrant in their un-tinctured state.

    Please help me in my new quest: finding a perfume where the main note is benzoin!
    Ooh - the benzoin sounds fantastic LIB. Unfortunately to my nose benzoin always smells like cherry cough syrup mixed with that red sanitizing liquid hospitals use...not iodine but...that really dark red hand soap kind of liquid (can't remember the name).

    Have you smelled Santal de Mysore by Serge Lutens, I think it's a benzoin monster.
    "One day I will find the right words, and they will be simple"

    -- Jack Kerouac

  21. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    Oops, forgot to say: P-bird, both tinctures are pretty thin, but I'd really like to get rid of the sticky/waterproof layer characteristic. They stay on skin even after washing with hot water and soap ... as I said, the only way is nail lacquer remover. How do perfumers tackle this??
    The stickiness is probably remedied by using solvents. My resins are all "dissolved" in something, I think. They are labeled as essential oils.

    I find Les Nereides Imperial Opoponax to have a very soft resinous quality. Opoponax is the star of the show, but I detect a heavy dose of benzoin in it also.

  22. #142

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    Thank you for the suggestion, mike....Santal de Mysore is one the few Lutens I still have to smell, and after what yous aid, it intrigues me even more

    Thanks for the explanation, asha. Being a complete newbie in perfume making matters, I have a question: wouldn't a solvent dilute the tincture too much? Or is a drop or two sufficient?
    And thank you also for the Impérial Opoponax suggestion - I own a small bottle and am going to do a side by side comparison.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Sniffing around
    I'll stop wearing black when they make something darker

  23. #143

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    Wait for me!

    Here's my thoughts (and ramblings):

    Chamomile
    (EO)- Smells rather like lavender to me except slightly herby/medicinal. I'm a little doubtful whether this "essential oil" is really EO. It doesn't seem to be the consistency of an EO

    Violet (FO)- Not sure how to describe - smells floral and sweet but not like roses or jasmine or what I think of as white flowers (tuberose/gardenia I think) and somewhat synthetic (FO). Do violets even produce essential oil? And would it be from the flower? Smelling dried violet petals and they seem much less sweet and slightly smoky (odd - smoke free house).

    Speaking of jasmine, there are some creeper plants with small white flowers in a house down the road that smell rather fecal. Only because of the discussion on here about indolic/fecal notes in jasmine that I realised that the plants I keep walking past could be jasmine. They look kinda like this:



    I hadn't realised they could survive in cold little Canberra... man I love this thread

    Geranium (diluted EO) - Smells a little oily, a little salty and rather similar to the violet except less synthetic smelling. This one is rather thick but on the label (which NOW I read....) says 2.5% Geranium EO in grapeseed oil and with added Vit E. Although it does seem more realistically floral (in my opinion) than the violet.

    Coffee (FO)- from the little bottle it smells like burnt toast and coffee with some sweetness. Not the smell I associate with walking into Starbucks/Gloria Jeans but there's definitely coffee in there! On skin it smells exactly like burnt toast... but after awhile fading into burnt coffee.

    Coconut (FO)- whoa it actually smells like coconuts!

    Chocolate (FO) - smells like white chocolate and that burnt rubber note in Amen. Wow... now I see how hard it was for the perfumer I'm guessing since it smells like white chocolate there's little patchouli (can't smell much) and loads of vanilla.

    Cinnamon (sticks) - how on earth do you describe cinnamon??? Smells like the yummy baked goodies kinda cinnamon - not too heavy/spicy and softer than SL Rousse. Reminds me of making gingerbread (as my gingerbread usually contains more cinnamon than ginger).

    Also found powdered "Dutch cinnamon" in the spice cupboards. It was unopened and looks a little lighter than the regular powdered cinnamon. Anyone know if there's a difference? Hmm maybe I should go check.

    Ginger (powdered) - another hard to describe smell, but more because the first word that pops into my head is nausea rather than yummy. Sniffing from a very far distance as I rather dislike ginger. I used to take ginger capsules for travel sickness when younger and so eventually they were associated with nausea.

    Pepper:
    Black: hard to describe but it just smells like the typical nose tingling pepper smell
    Cayenne: smells rather like paprika and black pepper
    Chipotle: hard to describe but it smells a little more smooth than the other two types
    *sneeze*

    Star anise - sweet, spicy, and liquorice-like. Can definitely see how Lolita Lempicka Au Masculin has a lot of anise.

    Couldn't find the allspice, instead found some cumin!

    Cumin - whoa THIS is animalic? Ok maybe I can smell vaaaaguely the sweat smell but what it brings to my mind is when my (British) father attempts to make Thai noodles. Now I realise it's very heavy on the cumin.


    Also have a fair few different curry powders and dried herbs. To me, curry is another smell that is so familiar it's hard to describe too.

    Okey dokey, I'm almost up to date! Have these benzoin resins that I'm not sure what to do with... maybe I should experiment: try powdering them and "tincturing" in oil. I have tried doing this with other substances but only found it worked well with cocoa. Perhaps should go find some lavender to try. Will report back if I ever get off my lazy backside to start mixing things

  24. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    Thank you for the suggestion, mike....Santal de Mysore is one the few Lutens I still have to smell, and after what yous aid, it intrigues me even more

    Thanks for the explanation, asha. Being a complete newbie in perfume making matters, I have a question: wouldn't a solvent dilute the tincture too much? Or is a drop or two sufficient?
    And thank you also for the Impérial Opoponax suggestion - I own a small bottle and am going to do a side by side comparison.
    LIB, I think what they do is dissolve the resin tears in something other than alcohol at first. Then, depending on the solvent, they can use either alcohol or oil to dilute the liquid concentrate. Some of my essential oil resins are quite thick, so I think evaporation of the solvent over time makes the mixture less usable.

    As far as I know, quite a few naturals are solvent extracted to create the essential oil. I think that is why, given the exact same raw material, two differently extracted oils might not smell the same. I think solvent extraction removes slightly different chemicals than steam distillation or cold pressing. This is all from fuzzy memory, though, so I hope somebody else will chime in on this one
    Last edited by Asha; 20th June 2008 at 01:11 PM.

  25. #145

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    Thanks again, asha - you're probably right that disslution with solvent is done before dilution in alcohol or oil. It makes absolutely sense. My dumb question!

    Jillsy, let me tell you how much I enjoyed your description of your real spices. Your style is fresh and intuitive and prompted me to smell my own kitchen spices later in the evening. I also smiled when I read your cinnamon comment - that's what happened to me as well (how on earth does one *describe* the smell of cinnamon...well, it smells like cinnamon! ).

    Right now I am smelling natural Frankincense, probable origin India (I think I read this somewhere on Linda's site but can't find it anymore), 2% dilution in carrier oil.
    Serious bordering on stern, the smell of a church during a Roman Catholic mass. It conveys the colour grey to me, like the smoke when you burn it. Initially quite peppery, then it becomes more rounded, but retains its austere character. I think it's more "feeling" than reality, given that I can't avoid the association with its main use.

    My next post will be on Turkish Storax, but first I'd like to fully understand what it is exactly ... off to do some intensive research. :wave:
    Last edited by Lady_in_Black; 20th June 2008 at 05:41 PM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Sniffing around
    I'll stop wearing black when they make something darker

  26. #146

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    LIB, Great descriptions of the resins. Quite accurate. And I'm glad you remembered to say what they looked like, because they were very interesting to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    Benzoin, ... I found out I am definitely a benzoin lover....devoid of any incense facet...also highly fragrant in their un-tinctured state...
    Please help me in my new quest: finding a perfume where the main note is benzoin!
    It was the most un-incensy of the incense resins. It smelled more like amber, and yes, there were strong fruit notes. Very strange and beautiful. Also, it crumbled easily into dust!

    I agree with mikeperez, Serge Lutens uses the most benzoin in his line of fragrances. I suspect that's why I like them. Too much of it might give off a cherry cough syrup smell, though, especially if it is a synthetic benzoin without the complexity of the natural matrix.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    Myrrh...much harder to crush and didn't dissolve well...almost leathery...but also luminous and golden....freshly picked and sliced mushrooms.!
    I agree. Weird, mushroomy, a bit bitter, very woody and warm. I could barely get mine to burn. I put it directly on a red-hot coal, and it smoked for awhile, then melted, then turned into carbon. The rest of them vaproize completely, but the myrrh was almost indestructable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    ...both tinctures are pretty thin, but I'd really like to get rid of the sticky/waterproof layer characteristic...How do perfumers tackle this??
    The essential oils or absolutes that we buy from professionals are made by using heat distillation or solvent extraction. This professional method goes beyond merely dissolving them in alcohol. The sticky substance is actually removed, leaving the oil or absolute that is the source of the aroma. Whereas, we merely dissolve everything (sticky stuff and all) into alcohol solution. We're stuck with it, pun intended. There's no way we can remove it without high-tech methods.

    That's probably what Asha meant when she said "using solvents" would get rid of the sticky stuff. She didn't mean add the solvent to the solution. That wouldn't solve anything, pun intended. The solvents are used in the professional extraction process. I did note, however, that my alcohol tinctures smelled more "true to life" than the essential oils and absolutes of resins that I purchased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    ...Frankincense.... Initially quite peppery, then it becomes more rounded, but retains its austere character. ...I can't avoid the association with its main use.
    Nor can I. Frankincense = church. But it is different from myrrh and opoponax because it is more dry-peppery-piney-citrusy, instead of moist-nutty-woody-mushroomy.

    Smashing job on your florals and spices, jillsy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Chamomile (EO)- Smells rather like lavender to me except slightly herby/medicinal. I'm a little doubtful whether this "essential oil" is really EO. It doesn't seem to be the consistency of an EO
    Let's see what Redneck says next week. I didn't get any chamomile EO. I only know what the actual dried flowers smell like, and they are rather sweet. Some of the EOs I have are really thin and almost clear. So, it's probably genuine.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Violet ...Do violets even produce essential oil? And would it be from the flower?

    I quote from the astute owner of the website Boisdejasmine.com: "The discovery of the ionones led to the substitution of the violet toned synthetics for the extremely expensive violet flower oil. Viola odorata is still used, however for its leaves rather than flowers."
    So, the flower scent is all chemically created now. I have natural violet leaf absolute, and it is an entirely different aroma. Entirely. It will be in the Green-Leafy category.

    ARGH. Your link is broken to the photo of the fecal flowers. And I want to see them. The substances to blame are called "indoles." Our resident chemists can explain them, but they have the same sulfur compouind as feces.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Geranium...Smells a little oily, a little salty and rather similar to the violet...
    This is interesting. Mine wasn't floral smelling either. It was aromatic like lavender. So I did a little research and found out that the essential oil comes from the leaves, not the flowers. I didn't belive it (being the skeptic that I am) so the next geranium plant I passed, I broke off a petal, crushed it, smelled it, and...nothing. Broke off a leaf, repeated procedure and... minty, aromatic, herbal. Okay, so now I believe it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Cinnamon (sticks) - Also found powdered "Dutch cinnamon" in the spice cupboards. It was unopened and looks a little lighter than the regular powdered cinnamon. Anyone know if there's a difference?

    Dutch cinnamon is cassia. Its a similar plant. I like it, too. But my favorite cinnamon is Saigon cinnamon because it lacks the bitter, woody undertones of cheap cinnamon.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Ginger (powdered)...Sniffing from a very far distance as I rather dislike ginger.

    Ground ginger and fresh ginger smell and taste like two different substances. It is the same thing, but there is no comparison in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Pepper:...*sneeze*.

    LOL *Image of jillsy with her nose stuck in various pepper jars. The different colors of pepper really do smell different. I think black smells like a wood note instead of a spice. Red is sweeter to the nose but much hotter to the taste. White is strange, almost dusty smell.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Star anise - sweet, spicy, and liquorice-like. Can definitely see how Lolita Lempicka Au Masculin has a lot of anise.
    I still haven't smelled Lolita Lempicka. I used to say that I hated the anise note in perfumes, but I was wrong. I tried Ayala Moriel Indigo, and I loved it. Now I really would like to try Bond No. 9 Chinatown and Kenzo Jungle l'Elephant, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Cumin - whoa THIS is animalic? Ok maybe I can smell vaaaaguely the sweat smell... curry is another smell that is so familiar it's hard to describe too.
    I must have been around lots of sweaty guys in my life, but cumin smells just like a construction crew in an elevator on a hot day.


    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Have these benzoin resins that I'm not sure what to do with... maybe I should experiment: try powdering them and "tincturing" in oil.
    I know someone who does just that. Perhaps it would reduce that sticky residue that LIB and I got. She said that this is her procedure: Crush resin in jojoba oil, stick bottle in a hot water bath (don't know how long) pour off or remove the jojoba oil with a dropper, discard resin solids.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 20th June 2008 at 07:16 PM.

  27. #147
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    Well, Purplebird, I'm finally back with my samples and some free nights. I've got a lot of catching up to do, but maybe I can put a new spin on old notes.

    I already looked at Jasmine using bad vodka, but tonight I looked at Rose with good, Artisan's Blend perfumer's alcohol. What a joy!

    My wife ran across a nice article about rose scent components (in Japanese, unfortunately), but she helped me translate. The article is in "Expected Materials for the Future", volume 8, number 5, pages 10-14. They have a nice table listing rose components:

    Main Components of Odor (11)

    (-)-citronellol
    geraniol
    myrcene
    nerol
    (-)-linalool
    neral
    3,5-dimethoxytoluene
    1,3,5-trimethoxybenzene
    benzyl alcohol
    2-phenylethanol (aka phenethyl alcohol)
    methyleugenol

    Trace Important Components of Odor (9)

    rose oxide
    nerol oxide
    p-menthen-9-al
    perillene
    rose furan
    beta-damascenone
    beta-ionone
    3-(4-methyl-3-pentenyl)thiophene
    mintsulfide

    I decided to see if I could deconstruct my two natural rose samples (Bulgarian absolute and Moroccan absolute, both from solvent extraction) by looking at the natural mixtures and whatever components I had. I also have a sample of the synthetic rose accord, Rose Givco 217.

    I even decided to perform a diabolical experiment! After all, what else do crazy scientists naturally do? I decided to build my own quasi-rose, but to perform shocking and devious olfactory experiments on it, and thereby turn it into a woody masculine if at all possible! Bwa-ha-ha! And they said it couldn't be done! BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

    RØSENSTEIN

    First, I brought sweet, innocent Rose Poivrée into my evil laboratory, which was once a kitchenette, which was once a very '80's wet bar. She was soft, and unmistakably Rose - surely the sister of Jasmin de Nuit. Unlike her bare-footed and rustic sisters, Bulgaria and Morocco, Rose P. is clean and devoid of natural dirty smells. This, despite tales from her past, related to us by the neighborhood gossip, Tania (two words: dirty underwear!). Now, personally, I find Bulgaria very complex and more interesting than Morocco. Morocco seems sweet and gentle, just like everybody says. Bulgaria is rich, sharp, and some say drunken ("fermented", to be a bit kinder). Nevertheless, neither of them is a rose blossom. Rose P. isn't, either, but she fakes it much better. And Rose Givco? Definitely an interesting slice of rose, but also a pretender. Unbeknownst to these ladies, they would be the models for my evil experimentations.

    I began by assembling materials for my abomination. First, citronellol. Not as sharp as citral - much lighter. Yet still penetrating. Linear, and citrus-like. I could almost see this in the rose scents. I rubbed my hands in glee.

    Next - geraniol. Oooooo - spicy. Not so sweet. The spiciness is tempting, but it's easy to see how this one could be too strong. Have to be careful with this stuff. Too much of this, and we could get into trouble.

    Nerol ("Nerolex"). Oh, yes. Very pleasant. Even less spicy and more citrusy. Completely missing the sharp edge of geraniol. We must use some of this.

    Phenethyl alcohol. Sweet - almost gourmand. Cinnamon-like in a strange way, yet not spicy to me at all. Immediately I was transported back to my days in the university. The smell of the lab. The smell that made me want to become an evil scientist. Back before the fools tried to stop me! Well, they'll... Where was I? Oh, yes - phenethyl alcohol. Good stuff. We'll use this one, definitely.

    Now what is this? Beta-ionone? Why, this one smells... a bit like a cedar coffin. Yes, I believe that it's almost woody! Why - if I used a bit too much of this, I could even create a woodchuck hybrid! And Moreau thought he would beat me to the greatest discovery of all time! The fool!

    I brought together my ingredients - my secret formula consisting of exactly 0.125 mL each citronellol, Nerolex, and phenethyl alcohol, plus 0.0625 mL geraniol, and 0.250 mL beta-ionone, all dissolved in 1.0 mL Artisan's Blend perfumer's alcohol. Hmmmmm. A woody edge, but not woody enough. Even the wife and son think it's pour femme. In my son's words: "Manly? Well, I guess it's as manly as a rose scent can be."

    Curses!

    I reformulated (NOOOOOO!) using 0.1 mL each citronellol, Nerolex, and phenethyl alcohol, 0.05 mL geraniol, 0.5 mL beta-ionone, and 1 mL Artisan's Blend. Everybody thinks it's still floral, but maybe not a rose any more. The cedar has definitely floated to the top. Dries down on skin to a nice beta-ionone woody and geraniol spicy thing. Well, it may not be exactly what we intended, but one monster is as good as another in my book. Is it male? Is it female? Heck - I'll just call it unisex niche! We'll release it tomorrow morning, and see how many townsfolk and villagers it terrorizes.

    Evil science. Some nights I just love my job.

  28. #148

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    Haha! I enjoyed this post so much. Great writting!
    Please let everyone know when you release your perfume. I have something in my head which I think is more a color than a smell (a dusty, dried and almost discolored rose petal), I wonder how that would smell.

  29. #149

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    Love that Rosenstein logo.
    Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha indeed!
    LOL. My son just ran in and asked what I was laughing about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I decided to build my own quasi-rose, but to perform shocking and devious olfactory experiments on it, and thereby turn it into a woody masculine if at all possible!
    That's the spirit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    First, I brought sweet, innocent Rose Poivrée into my evil laboratory, which was once a kitchenette, which was once a very '80's wet bar.
    The evolution of your decor is significant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    ...Nevertheless, neither of them is a rose blossom...And Rose Givco? Definitely an interesting slice of rose, but also a pretender.
    Yeah, isn't it amazing, how everything falls short in its own way?

    If I were to re-create a rose, probably the first things I would try to get my hands on would be beta-damascenone and the assorted damascones. I think some of these figured prominently in my old 80s favorite, Jean Marc Sinan, which was discontinued long ago. I think these chemicals were found to be carcinogenic in high percentages.
    But they are rich, fruity, and honeyed--probably too femmy for what you are trying to do, which is a gender change operation on a rose.

    Here are some suggestions on what to do with this mixture. Divide it into portions and try:
    Some lavender absolute, to put a nice edge on it, a clean, herbal crispness.
    Or it that is too bright, hay absolute to soften and sweeten without introducing anymore florals.
    Or you could try agarwood , which does well with rose.

    Or a tiny bit of black pepper to harden it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Evil science. Some nights I just love my job.
    We did too.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 25th June 2008 at 03:06 PM.

  30. #150
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    "Look, Igor! A letter from America! What? Incredible! Could this be the missing component.....?"

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7 View Post
    Here are some suggestions on what to do with this mixture. Divide it into portions and try:
    Some lavender absolute, to put a nice edge on it, a clean, herbal crispness.
    Or it that is too bright, hay absolute to soften and sweeten without introducing anymore florals.
    Or you could try agarwood , which does well with rose.

    Or a tiny bit of black pepper to harden it up.
    "I don't know, Professor Rosenstein. It looks dangerous to me. Maybe we shouldn't..."

    "Nonsense, Igor. Science must not hold back, trembling in the darkness. This is it! One of these components is bound to work! Oh, Igor... Soon, success will be ours! And sooner than you think!"

    "Do you think so? Do you really think so, Doktor Rosenstein?"

    "Trust me, Igor. Soon you will see it. Alive, I say. Alive!"

  31. #151

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    TELEGRAM
    TO: PERFUMISTO

    RECEIVED WIRE STOP REQUEST ANIMATION EXPERIMENT TERMINATE IMMEDIATELY STOP WARNING YOU GRAVE DANGER MUST EVACUATE LAB STOP HARMFUL FUMES MUTATIONS UNPREDICTABLE CONSEQUENCES

    BIRD

  32. #152

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    .................................................. .........

    Does anybody else have notes to report?
    *watching for your response*

    .................................................. .........

    I'd like to thank everyone for allowing me to moderate this "organized" portion of the thread thus far, steering it through its various categories in some semblance of order.

    The remaining categories are:

    Leaves, Roots, and Stems - Green and Woody Goodness
    and
    Animalics – Tame and Wild

    It would be good to cover these before the Fourth of July weekend, which is a busy weekend in the U.S. (There's so much activity that we are usually exhausted the following week.)

    After that, we can turn our attention to a more relaxed, disorderly :
    Open Discussion: Mixing Experiments- Featuring the type of free-form experiments similar to Redneck Perfumisto's creation of his rose accord.

    .................................................. ............

  33. #153

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    hello, i am back from my dalmatian island and i had the most gorgeous time, also smellwise! this whole island is so rich in scents i have never experienced anything like that. the wafts of warm, smooth, herbal honey accompany your every step, and it is not only with your nose you are recepting these smells with but it seems the whole body is engulfed by these lovely scents emanating from the bushes and herbs of the macchia by the sea under a hot hot blazing sun. sheer bliss!!!

    the first day we went to the mountains to harvest lavender competing with like a million bees... we took the basket home and spent a couple of hours taking the flowers off the stalks. and then we started to make essential oil out of it. it was delightful to watch how first the hydrosol came out and then gradually the golden couloured lavender oil filling the whole room with a golden sweet herbal scent. i must confess i never considered lavender to be a particularly appealing smell but this was something completely different, a whole new experience i never will forget. i will dilute the oil tomorrow and try to give you my impression of it on a more detached note, on a rainy and stormy day in vienna. let´s see how it works out then...

    also, my aromachemicals kit 1 and kit 2 from linda arrived, i am overjoyed but also quite at a loss where to start and how to catch up. open to your suggestions...

  34. #154

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    Wow Tamora sounds great! I'm jealous :P

    Thanks for the kind words dear Lady and Bird

    Last night I attempted to "infuse" some of those benzoin resins in jojoba oil. Crushed them slightly, covered with oil, and then put the bottle in a bowl of hot water for 90min. Poured out the oil and it smelled just like Friar's Balsam without the medicinal notes. Kind of a weird vanilla-ish, not sure how else to describe it.

    Spent a lot of last night wondering how to cold press orange and mandarin peels to extract the essential oil. A few feeble attempts did not really work but it definitely helped me with distinguishing the difference in smells. Not that I can really describe the difference though!

    Also resniffed the cumin. Whoa! I now see what you mean - took a few tries but now I get it! *Feels proud* Also was chopping fresh coriander and thought it smelled similar but more green, less sweaty.

    Ahh pity that pic didn't show up. Might go take my own pic of the plant and post that up. Hmmm... wonder if I can infuse those flowers in oil
    Last edited by jillsy; 28th June 2008 at 07:06 AM.

  35. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    the first day we went to the mountains to harvest lavender competing with like a million bees... it was delightful to watch how first the hydrosol came out and then gradually the golden couloured lavender oil filling the whole room with a golden sweet herbal scent. ...
    Glorius. I'm so jealous. No photos? I bet that was the most amazing sight, colorwise. As you know, I am fond of purple to say the least. Especially at twilight, when the long, red rays of the sun are peeking over the horizon, and the whole ultraviolet spectrum starts to glow and practically vibrate.

    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    also, my aromachemicals kit 1 and kit 2 from linda arrived, i am overjoyed but also quite at a loss where to start and how to catch up. open to your suggestions...
    Oh Good!
    Here's what you do.
    1. Get as many vials as you have samples. Use 1 ml perfume vials or bigger.
    2. Drip 48 drops of grain (or perfumers) alcohol into each vial.
    3. How many eyedroppers do you have? (If you only have one, you will have to rinse it in alcohol between each use.)
    Or you can use coffee-stirrer straws. Get them from the coffee shop. Use them for disposable pipettes for your samples.
    4. Put about 2 - 5 drops of sample per vial. That would be about 4 to 10 pecent fragrance.
    5. Cut up some coffee filter papers. Drip a few drops of diluted sample on paper and smell it.
    6. Jot down your impressions about what it smells like.
    7. You don't have to post on the forum about every single note unless you want to--just do the ones that strike your fancy. We've covered everything except for the woods and animalics. Of course, if you want to write about everything, feel free to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Last night I attempted to "infuse" some of those benzoin resins in jojoba oil....Kind of a weird vanilla-ish, not sure how else to describe it.
    Yes, vanillic, with notes of cherry and almond is what I got. Supremely strange, but very pleasant.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Spent a lot of last night wondering how to cold press orange and mandarin peels...:
    Hmm, couldn't tell you. But it's safer to distill them because the cold pressed product is more likely to cause photosensitivity on the skin. Steam distilled essential oil is considered to be safer.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Also resniffed the cumin. Whoa! I now see what you mean - took a few tries but now I get it! *Feels proud* Also was chopping fresh coriander and thought it smelled similar but more green, less sweaty.
    Atta girl. Sweat! It's not the type of association that a person makes unless told about it beforehand. Then, the "aha!" moment occurs.

    LIB dear, are you with us this week? Are you ready to push on to the woods and animalics, or did you skip into the mixing yet?

    Redneck Perfumisto have you blown up your house yet?
    You know, it worries me that your previous demonic-possession posting was the last I heard from you....


    ???!!!

  36. #156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    the first day we went to the mountains to harvest lavender competing with like a million bees... it was delightful to watch how first the hydrosol came out and then gradually the golden couloured lavender oil filling the whole room with a golden sweet herbal scent. ...
    Glorius. I'm so jealous. No photos? I bet that was the most amazing sight, colorwise. As you know, I am fond of purple to say the least. Especially at twilight, when the long, red rays of the sun are peeking over the horizon, and the whole ultraviolet spectrum starts to glow and practically vibrate.

    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    also, my aromachemicals kit 1 and kit 2 from linda arrived, i am overjoyed but also quite at a loss where to start and how to catch up. open to your suggestions...
    Oh Good!
    Here's what you do.
    1. Get as many vials as you have samples. Use 1 ml perfume vials or bigger.
    2. Drip 48 drops of grain (or perfumers) alcohol into each vial.
    3. How many eyedroppers do you have? (If you only have one, you will have to rinse it in alcohol between each use.)
    Or you can use coffee-stirrer straws. Get them from the coffee shop. Use them for disposable pipettes for your samples.
    4. Put about 2 - 5 drops of sample per vial. That would be about 4 to 10 pecent fragrance.
    5. Cut up some coffee filter papers. Drip a few drops of diluted sample on paper and smell it.
    6. Jot down your impressions about what it smells like.
    7. You don't have to post on the forum about every single note unless you want to--just do the ones that strike your fancy. We've covered everything except for the woods and animalics. Of course, if you want to write about everything, feel free to do so.


    I am going to attempt to categorize your note kit. Please see my next post (after my reply to jillsy).

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Last night I attempted to "infuse" some of those benzoin resins in jojoba oil....Kind of a weird vanilla-ish, not sure how else to describe it.
    Yes, vanillic, with notes of cherry and almond is what I got. Supremely strange, but very pleasant.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Spent a lot of last night wondering how to cold press orange and mandarin peels...:
    Hmm, couldn't tell you. But it's safer to distill them because the cold pressed product is more likely to cause photosensitivity on the skin. Steam distilled essential oil is considered to be safer.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Also resniffed the cumin. Whoa! I now see what you mean - took a few tries but now I get it! *Feels proud* Also was chopping fresh coriander and thought it smelled similar but more green, less sweaty.
    Atta girl. Sweat! It's not the type of association that a person makes unless told about it beforehand. Then, the "aha!" moment occurs.

    LIB dear, are you with us this week? Are you ready to push on to the woods and animalics, or did you skip into the mixing yet?

    Redneck Perfumisto have you blown up your house yet? It worries me that I haven't received anything since that last demonic possession post.

    .................................................. ...............................


    Okay, tamora this list is for you. Here's how the perfumer's apprentice kits break down according to our categories.
    (I may be wrong because I haven't ever smelled most of these aroma chemicals, but I'm just taking a guess as to where they belong in our order.)
    There are many notes in your kits. Write about whichever ones you want. It will help you to follow this order because of the similar characteristics in each category.

    Citrus and Fruit
    Aldehyde C14 - peach
    Aldehyde C16 - strawberry
    Bergamot - citrus
    Citral - sweet lemon
    Citronellol - green, citrus, woody, musky, rosy
    Calone - fresh melony
    Ethyl heptanoate - berry wine
    Ethyl Linalyl Acetate - floral, bergamot, pear
    Ethyl Propionate - rum, grape, pineapple
    Kumquat - citrus
    Linalool - rosewood, citrus, green, floral
    Methyl Anthranilate - dry, floral, concord grapes
    Methyl Pamplemousse - grapefruit
    Nectaryl - peach, apricot
    Neroli - orange, floral
    Orange Terpenes
    Ortho-tert (Verdox) - woody, green, apple, herbal

    Floral
    Aldehyde C-12 Lauric - sweet, herbaceous, clean floral
    Benzyl Acetate - fruity, jasmine, lily
    Benzyl Butyrate - jasmine, rose, apricot
    Benzyl Salicylate - balsam, jasmine
    Elintaal - fresh, herbal, lily of the valley
    Ethyl Linalool - floral, woody, green, soft
    Florhydral - green, lily of the valley, fresh
    Geraniol - rose, geranium
    Geranyl Acetate - rose, lavender
    Hedione - lactone, green, jasmine
    Hexyl Salicylate - floral, herbal, green
    Hydroxycitronellal - lilac, lily of the valley
    Isobutyl Salicylate - clover, herbal, orchid
    Ionone Alpha - violet, berry, woody, powdery
    Iso E Super - woody, floral, amber
    Isoamyl salicylate - orchid, balsam
    Jasmonyl - jasmine, lactone, mushroom
    Lilial - lily, watery
    Lyral - lily
    Phenethyl alcohol - rose, honey
    Phenyl Acetaldehyde Dimethyl Acetal (Viridine) - rose, earth, mushroom
    Rose accord
    Terpineol Alpha - lilac

    Spices
    Dihydro Eugenol - clove

    Woods - Herbal
    Birch Leaf - herbal

    Woods - Aromatic
    Butyl cyclohexyl acetate - cedar, herbal, balsam, green, fruity
    Cedrol - cedar
    Methyl cedryl ketone - cedar, leather, musk, vetiver
    Scentenal - ozone (not really a wood)
    Ultrazur - ozone (not really a wood)

    Woods - Herbal/Minty
    Birch leaf - fresh
    Methyl Salicylate - wintergreen

    Woods - Leafy
    Green Ivy - dry, floral, ivy
    (Z)-3-hexen-1-ol (Leaf Alcohol) - cut grass

    Woods - Soft and Hard
    Black Agar - oud or agarwood
    Dihydro Ionone Beta - orris, mahogony, amber
    Ebanol - sandalwood
    Kohinool - woody, amber, vetiver, raisin
    Sandalore - sandalwood
    Woods - Haylike
    Coumarin - herbs, hay
    Kephalis - warm, ambery, tobacco

    Animalic
    Ambrettolide - floral musk
    Ambroxan - ambergris, labdanum
    Animalid - true musk
    Castoreum - leather, fecal
    Cedramber - woody ambergris
    Celestolide - brilliant musk
    Cetalox - ambergris
    Civet - fecal
    Ethylene Brassylate - floral musky powdery
    Exaltolide - fine, sweet, musk
    Galaxolide - sweet, floral, musk
    Habanolide - white musk
    Indole - animalic floral
    Isobutyl Quinoline - leather
    Lactoscaton - ambergris, civit, musk

    Balsam/Resin/Amber/Vanilla/Sweets
    Aldehyde C12 - amber
    Aldehyde C18 - coconut
    Adoxal - meringue
    Benzaldehyde - sweet, bitter, almond
    Methyl Laitone - milky, oily, coconut
    Oxyoctaline Formate - frankincense
    Tolu Balsam - spicy, resin
    Last edited by purplebird7; 29th June 2008 at 04:55 AM.

  37. #157

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    bird, this is ever soooo friendly of you helping me out with all these useful instructions. thank you very, very much!!!!

    also the categorising of the items is a big, big help. because since yesterday i tried to put it into an own excel sheet but still no overview. so when i read your post this just was at the right time to finish my sorting troubles.

    i have everything at home i need for diluting because the night before i left i ordered not only the kits but also 255 bottles and 500 plastic pipettes. so i will just go for it trying to focus on the remaining categories.

    regarding photos, one has to put them on a website first, right?

  38. #158

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    tamora - I'm very glad that it was helpful.

    I would have felt the same way if faced with that many samples. Categorization helps me understand my perception of the world.

    Also, it was useful for me to familiarize myself with the descriptions of each chemical. I have read so much about them in books.

    Re: posting photos.
    This is a good question.
    First upload your photos to a website that does image hosting.
    Then copy the whole HTML tagline which starts with the words [IMG]http://img.nameofwebsite.com
    I purposely haven't written the whole line, or the forum will attempt to find the link. It should end in brackets such as [IMG].
    Then, paste this tagline into the body of your post on the forum.
    When you post, the photo will appear.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 29th June 2008 at 02:10 PM.

  39. #159

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    ambroxan: this one i liked immensely. it is ambery with very soft mellow notes and a hint of wood and even frankincense(?). i think i could wear just that and be happy with this scent.

    cedramber: this is said to be an ambergris note with woody aspects, but for me the cedarwood clearly dominates, it is a cool even steely wood note. it vanishes more quickly than it is to be expected in a basenote.

    animalid: faint odour but it is nice and it is musky. as i am a total "musk in its variations" newbie that´s all i can say for now.

    benzaldehyde: bitter almonds, just that, bitter almonds, odour strength is enormous. we have a sweet that is called marzipan that also smells like this.

    tolu balsam: rich and resinous with a lot a vanilla and cinnamon developing after some time. yummy!

  40. #160

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    I'd like to take part in the game once, but I'm not in a hurry.
    L'amour fait songer, vivre et croire. Il a, pour réchauffer le coeur, un rayon de plus que la gloire; et ce rayon, c'est le bonheur. (Victor HUGO)

  41. #161

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Sure, Night. Join in.
    Bookmark this thread and then, even if it falls down in position in the list, you will be able to pull it up and revive it whenever you get your samples. Reviving threads is common practice here.

    I'd just like to say that LIB is attending to some family affairs and will be back with us as soon as she is able to do so.

    tamora, I see that you're starting in on the animalics.
    This is such an interesting group of fragrances, and I'm just dying to talk about them.
    I hope that LIB is able to return soon and tell me what real ambergris smells like, because she has some!

    Animalics – Tame and Wild
    This category includes the following samples that the participants have: musk (Musk Ketone, Ambrettolide, Habanolide, Tonolide, Velviol, Galaxolide), ambergris (natural, Ambrox, Adoxal), ambrette seed, quinoline (leather), civit and castoreum.

    Plus, tamora's PerfumersApprentice.com aroma chemical kit has: Ambrettolide, Ambroxan, Animalid, castoreum, Cedramber, Celestolide, Cetalox, civet, Ethylene Brassylate, Exaltolide, Galaxolide, Habanolide, Indole, Isobutyl Quinoline, and Lactoscaton.

    I have three musks and, of course, they are all synthetics. Like the sandalwoods, they are crafted to serve as sweet bases. And they do a terrific job—diffusing any scent, adding a sweet, warm, skin-like accord. All three are pleasant. None of them are overtly dirty or animalic. Please note that they smell similar--any differences are slight.

    Ambrettolide – The sweetest, most vanillic-floral of the three.
    Habanolide – A bit more skin-like, powdery, white musk. This is my favorite.
    Velvione – A wee bit dirtier, more natural, warm musk.

    Attention: these musks (although soft and cuddly) are extremely tenacious, in fact so persistent, that the trash can where I threw away my test strips still smells like them one month later. Like the synthetic sandalwoods, they cannot be underestimated in terms of their strength and usefulness. Curiously, the best way to smell them is to put the test strip in a room, close the door, and leave. Later, come back, and the room smells like musk. Or alternately, take a brandy glass, put the strip in there, cover it with foil, and leave it for a few hours or overnight. Take the glass to a "clean" room and uncover it. It doesn't work very well to drop musk on a test strip and then smell the strip. For some reason, especially in the presence of other samples, it is difficult to smell them immediately before they diffuse. I'd imagine the best way would be to dilute them to safe concentration and put them on one's skin.

    The wildest, most animalic of my samples are castoreum and civit—the stinky duo—and I say that with all affection. These notes are important in perfumery. Mine are both synthetic accords:

    Castoreum – Registers as a “leather” note to me. Bitter, animalic, oily, a bit rubbery and smoky, slightly fecal. Yet, I find this note to be attractive. It smells like the pelt of a fur-bearing animal. If anyone has visited a furrier and stuck his or her face into the fresh coats, this is the aroma that exists underneath all the expense and supposed glamour—real animals. Now that I recognize it, I can say that my favorite perfume with castoreum is Paloma Picasso. (I always thought this was the “dirty little secret” of the department stores, possibly the most animalic of all mainstream perfumes these days, never failing to make some sales assistant wrinkle her nose in disgust.) I really like this note.

    Civit – By far the strongest note in the palette. This one packs a punch. Sulfuric and fecal aroma. (You would not want to spill it anywhere.) Procedure for diluting is as follows:
    1. Put one drop into a vial of alcohol.
    2. Smell it.
    3. Wonder what two drops would smell like. (Rase Xtreme, Xtreme!).
    4. Put a second drop in the vial.
    5. Regret it immediately.
    6. Siphon off half the vial of dilution, flush it down the toilet, appropriately.
    7. Add more alcohol.
    8. Still too strong. Repeat siphoning and adding alcohol.
    9. Give up.
    10. Cap it off.
    Oddly, this synthetic accord of civit was not as long-lasting as I had expected. It was permeating, but for something that packs such a punch in the top notes, it managed to back down appreciably. Perhaps this synthetic version was engineered to fade out so it would be more useable in perfumery.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 3rd July 2008 at 01:09 AM.

  42. #162

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Just a question, where to you get your materials from ? Do you all work onto a sample from the same source or not ? Is there an order ?

    I also need to know the differences between aroma, scent, fragrance, perfume, basis, etc. to be sure we are talking about the same things. I'm not used to talk about perfumes in English.

    Thanks !
    L'amour fait songer, vivre et croire. Il a, pour réchauffer le coeur, un rayon de plus que la gloire; et ce rayon, c'est le bonheur. (Victor HUGO)

  43. #163

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    bird, sorry, after all your categorising you did for me i went forward to the animalics instead of doing my homework with the woods, tsss, tssss (obviously still confused and unused to do all the bottling and measuring and diluting and trying not to change a perfectly normal household into a smelly nightmare) but they ARE interesting. and so i start with

    civet (givaudan): oh what a surprise! i actually liked the civet smell! is there something wrong with me? "It hits you like Wladimir Klitschko’s right hook and smells like his boxing shorts after 10 rounds", and that´s the polite way to put it, to quote chandler burr. but for me - amazing - it is quite pleasant, even sweet. could it be that i diluted it too much? i came as 10% and i diluted it to 1%.

    kephalis:
    wood, wood, wood, miles of wood. it is a rather onedimensional scent, like a forest that has been planted purely for timbering reasons, so no berries, no mushrooms no animals and not very much else naturewise.

    kohinool:
    oh this is quite something! dry wood-tone with strong incense and ambery notes. for me this is a sparkling scent, the many different notes competing for your attention.

  44. #164

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    bird, sorry, after all your categorising you did for me i went forward to the animalics instead of doing my homework with the woods, tsss, tssss .
    Quite alright.
    The order has been subjected to people's schedules, and we're almost done with the basic descriptions, so post in whatever order you want.
    I recommend that you contine to list notes by category because it makes it easier for people to read.

    I'm going to post rest of mine (the woods) so that I can play with mixing this weekend.

    Yeah, wasn't civit amusing? I think you did the right thing by making a 1% solution because it is supposed to occur in an almost undetectable amount in perfume, more of a fixative than an actual note to be smelled. I'm definitely going to try and make a floral with civit. Try your castoreum. I liked that one.

    The kephalis: and kohinool: have me wondering... Maybe we can exchange dilutions. I love wood notes, and I'd like to try these.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Just a question, where to you get your materials from ? Do you all work onto a sample from the same source or not ? Is there an order ?
    I know two places that sell small samples of perfume ingredients (1 or 2 ml for $2 or $3 USD):
    Eden Botanicals
    http://www.edenbotanicals.com/essentials1.html

    Perfumer's Apprentice
    http://store.perfumersapprentice.com/shbyolfa.html

    Each of us has his or her own samples in this project, but I am going to send mine around for people to try. Please PM me your address.

    The words "aroma" and "scent" = how something smells
    Sometimes the word "fragrance" also means this.
    Example: I love the (aroma, scent, fragrance) of pine trees.

    The word "perfume" = a finished product that you wear, usually for women.
    The word "fragrance" = a finished product that you wear or use in the home. It includes perfume, cologne, EDP, EDT, or room sprays.
    Sometimes the word "scent" also means this.
    Example: I wear perfume every day, but my husband doesn't wear any fragrance.
    Example: I will spray some fragrance into this room.
    Example: How many scents are there in your collection?

    The word "note" = a single ingredient that goes into a finished product.
    Example: Every one of my samples is a note used in perfume.

    A "note" or "ingredient" can be natural, taken from a flower, wood, or natural substance. These are called "essential oils" "EOs" or "absolutes." Or it can be a man-made aroma chemical.
    Last edited by purplebird7; 1st July 2008 at 03:30 PM.

  45. #165

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    sure, bird. you wish, i smell

    castoreum: i find this one fascinating. it is warm, velvety, honeyed leather with ambery notes. like you spent some days in a saddle, reminding me of days when i rode the one or other mean horse. why so many people find this smell repulsive - beats me. for me this is a great, great smell and i will definitely use it when we start to mix.

    ebanol: another very good wood note, like sandalwood. cool!

    bird, of course i will send to you whatever you like.

  46. #166

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    bird, of course i will send to you whatever you like.
    Thank you! Like I said, I'll send mine around, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    castoreum: i find this one fascinating... it is warm, velvety, honeyed leather with ambery notes.
    Yay. I thought so, too. Leather, fur, honey, tobacco, a little fecal. Nice.
    I agree, it would mix well.

    I want to start mixing ingredients. So... to that end, I must post my final descriptions of single notes.

    Please don't feel indimidated because I've covered the whole wood group all at once. It is a big category. I was going to do it gradually, but it has been too hard to pull everybody along at the same time.

    I still recommend that you try to smell your samples in sub-categories, like I have done here. Otherwise, you might miss the similarities between them. It makes sense to group them before you try them. Among you, there are some people with samples of substances that I have not smelled, therefore I don't know where they belong in the sub-categories. I have lumped them into a miscellaneous group; please put them where you think they are most appropriate.



    This last, big category of notes is woods. I’m naming this:
    Leaves, Roots, and Stems - Green and Woody Goodness

    This is my favorite category, containing a wide range of notes all the way from the top to the bottom of the plants—from their green and growing leaves, to their lumber-like stems and branches, and down to their musty, earthy roots.

    I love a good woody Oriental fragrance. Even florals benefit from a bit of “backbone” provided by woody notes. And Chypres couldn’t do without them.

    It’s really too big of a group to cover without sub-categories. To that end, I decided to put them into groups defined by their unique aromas. Anyone could argue for different divisions; I had to settle for something, so here they are:

    Citrusynotes that mimic the aroma of citrus fruit
    Citronella
    Lemongrass
    Linalool
    Litsea cubeba
    Rosewood

    Aromaticfresh, camphoraceous, volatile aroma
    Lavender – crossover from florals
    Geranium – crossover from florals
    Juniper berry
    Virginia cedar
    Himalayan Cedar
    Texas Cedar
    Cypress Leaf
    Pine
    Eucalyptus
    Tea tree
    Wormwood

    Herbal fresh, minty, may be sweet or bitter
    Basil
    Thyme
    Rosemary
    Myrtle
    Peppermint
    Spearmint


    Leafy - Characterized by their green, live-plant aroma
    Galbanum
    Violet Leaf
    Leaf alcohol

    Soft Woods rooty, clear, more plantlike than woody
    Atlas cedar
    Clary sage
    Orris
    Oakmoss

    Hard Woods smells like lumber, usually dark, or earthy
    Sandalwood
    Oud
    Vetiver
    Patchouli

    Haylikesweet, thick aroma, like dried grass
    Coumarin
    Hay
    Mate
    Tobacco


    Miscellaneous:
    (Thses are notes that people have which I haven’t smelled before, so I don’t know where they belong.)
    Amyris
    Angelica
    Birch leaf
    Blue Gum
    Calone – ozonic is close to aromatic?
    Fir Balsam – incense and resin section?
    Helionol
    Hyssop
    Iso-E Super
    Kephalis
    Lavandin
    Muhuhu
    Nagarmotha
    Niauli
    Palmarosa
    Spikenard



    Citrusy – Characterized by their similarity to citrus peel
    Lemongrass, origin unknown – Bright and lemony, not as delicious as lemon peel, more woody and oily. Has the classic “furniture polish” aroma. Long-lasting. A great addition to improve the longevity of citrus oils.


    Herbal – characterized by their use as flavorings, often fresh, minty, can be sweet or bitter
    Rosemary, unknown origin – Aromatic, minty but non-sweet, pungent, with undertones of turpentine. This might be a difficult note to work with in perfumery, restricted to dry, herbal fragrances. I can’t see it being sweetened easily without clashing.

    Spearmint, USA – Sweet, candylike, cool, smooth, delicious. This is a mouthwatering note, as far as I am concerned.


    Aromatic – characterized by a fresh, volatile aroma, often camphoraceous
    Lavender, France – Fresh, dry, herbal, a bit soapy, lavender is an exceedingly aromatic floral. This is a clean smell.

    Bourbon Geranium – I already did this note in the florals, but I really think it belongs here due to its strong lemony-minty undertones.

    Juniper Berry, origin unknown – This is a great note. Airy, lemony, piney, outdorsy, fresh, enjoyable. Far superior to the aroma of the crushed needles of the juniper bush, which can be alarmingly stinky.

    Cedarwood, USA – Virginia cedar or red cedar is dry, aromatic, dusty, diffusive, deep. This is the classic “pencil shavings” or “cedar closet” aroma.

    Leafy - characterized by their green, live-plant aroma

    Galbanum, Iran – The Queen of Green. Earthy, pungent, and incredibly strong. Smells like a live plant yanked from the ground—leaves, stem, roots, dirt, and all. This is one of my favorite notes of all time, featured prominently in the Chypre Green genre, which I love.

    Violet leaf, absolute, Egypt – Vegetal, celery, green pepper, salty-sweet, pungent, opaque aroma. This thick, green substance has a strong, overwhelming odor. Unique smell, more like part of the produce section of the grocery store than the floral shop.


    Soft Woods Characterized by their rooty, clear aroma, more plant than wood.
    Atlas Cedar, Morocco – Amazing note. Light, soft, slightly sweet, aromatic, woody, warm, delicate but diffusive, it smells nothing like Virginia cedar.

    Clary Sage, France – Gorgeous note. Clear, green, shimmering, a bit minty, rather sweet, soft, but full and diffusive. I could see lots of use for this in perfumery to soften up green notes and to clean up florals. I love this, too.

    Orris Butter, Eastern Europe – Wow. This was such a surprise and such a pleasure. I highly recommend it. One of the most expensive ingredients in perfumery, I got a tiny smidgeon of orris root butter. It was almost opaque white and waxy. It didn’t smell much until I dissolved it in alcohol, and then it opened up and diffused. What does it smell like? I’ll tell you. It smells like—carrots. I love this note. Sweet, rooty, light and a bit powdery. Ethereal and beautiful. No trace of the “metallic” bite commonly associated with iris in perfumes. Two iris perfumes that smell true to the natural substance are Chanel 28, La Pausa and Serge Lutens Iris Silver Mist. Frederic Malle Iris Poudre is more of a floral.

    Oakmoss, absolute, France – This note surprised me. Chypre fan that I am, one would expect me to know what oakmoss smells like, especially since I complain so much about the restrictions that have destroyed the old-school Chypre formulas, allowing only one-tenth-of-one-percent in fragrance. I used to look for a “mossy” smell, but I didn’t really know what that meant. To be sure, I could have picked some moss from the north side of my house--but that would not be oakmoss or treemoss (known respectively as Evernia prunastri or Evernia Furfuracea) both of which are lichens instead of the plant we know as moss.

    So, how does oakmoss smell? Nothing like I thought it would. Salty, even briny. Big but soft aroma which is warm, dry and plantlike, with buttery undertones. This sample is a sticky, dark, forest green substance.

    So what does the allergy-free synthetic replacement smell like? Will it smell the same as the natural? Sorry to say, no. It will be good, but different. Chemists have selected the characteristics that they best felt represent the aroma of oakmoss absolute, and the result falls short of the natural.

    Oakmoss, synthetic – Less complex than the natural absolute, it has a pronounced dry, popcorn or buttery note, but no deep, warm, plantlike base. The chemical is a clear, syrupy liquid. It is pleasant, but uncomplicated.


    Haylikecharacterized by their sweet, opaque, grassy aroma
    Hay, absolute, France – Complex, sweet, warm, a bit salty, pungent, strong, full, thick, beautiful in a wild way. The comforting aroma of a haystack as it dries in the sun. Light undertones of what I would consider to be an “idealized” fragrance of expensive, unburned tobacco. Dark green, almost black, gooey syrup. This is a fascinating note, but powerful.

    Tobacco, absolute, origin unknown – Yucky. Smells like “chaw,” what we used to call chewing tobacco. Sharp, bittersweet, repulsive odor of a spittoon. Strange, pungent, fermented. Dark, viscous goo. Not very useful in my opinion; hay is better.

    Yerba Mate, absolute, origin unknown – A real surprise—a pleasant tea note. This is quite beautiful. Needs to be diluted for the tea aroma to escape. Warm, greenish, rather sweet. Olive green in color, thick, very sticky semi-solid substance.


    Hard Woods characterized by an aroma of lumber or dark earthiness
    Patchouli, Indonesia– Deep, pungent, dirt-like, musty, woody, bittersweet, and dark. The aroma of the forest floor, decaying wood, autumn leaves. Patchouli is the best-known natural woody note, easily recognizable, and the quintessential aroma of the hippie era. People have a love-hate relationship with it; most people feel strongly about patchouli. I love it.
    My sample is an iron-free patchouli, which has been processed in stainless steel containers rather than the iron that is reported to be commonly used. Apparently iron taints the aroma, making it bitter, metallic, or smoky. This sample is more green smelling, lighter in color, not dank at all, and less likely to be found offensive.

    Oud, CO2 extraction, origin unknown – I’ve always wondered, what does real oud smell like? Well, this is the real thing, and it is amazing. It smells like—a bag of hardwood mulch, aged oak mulch. Rich, full, sweet, deep, woody, with a bitter medicinal bite. It also smells fecal and like unwashed laundry. Mysterious and addictive. I bought this ethically harvested product from Tigerflag.com. My sample was a light, opaque brown, semi-solid paste. Madini Agarwood perfume smells similar to this.

    Vetiver, Ruh Khus, India – Wild Indian vetiver has a distinctive smell with strong undertones of dried earth. There are several different kinds of vetiver, each with its own characteristics. Some are more sour, some are sweeter, grassier, drier, earthier, or even smoky. This one is the earthy variety, but all vetivers smell a bit like dried grass with nuances of citrus, mint, earth, and green notes. I categorize it with the woods instead of grasses because it is dry rather than sweet and haylike.


    Sandalwood – I am tempted to lump this one together with musk because both notes are almost always synthetics with soft, sweet, diffusive aromas carefully crafted to serve as the base notes of perfumes. However, I am going to be fair and put them in the wood category because they should smell more like lumber.

    I have a natural and some synthetics, and they smell nothing alike.

    Sandalwood, Santalum austro-caledonicum– The species names are confusing. Even though this uses the prefix “austro,” it refers to Vanatu sandalwood, while the name Santalum spicatum refers to Australian sandalwood. (Go figure.) This sample has prolonged, harsh top notes that smell pungent and earthy, almost smoky. (It is difficult to wait through these bitter overtones.) It gradually grows in sweetness as you wear it on your warm skin. The middle notes smell similar to cut pine boards. The eventual base notes are sweet and enjoyable but retain a bit of an evergreen undertone. The aroma is long lasting. Madini Santal Blanc smells like this substance, which is to say, drier and woodier than the soft, sweet aroma of the synthetics to which we have become accustomed.
    I don’t know what real Mysore sandalwood smells like; I’ve never smelled it by itself. People say that it is creamy and sweet. I hope the people of India realize the value of this endangered species and succeed in cultivating it. I hope they receive a fair price for it in the future—a price that would make it worth saving.

    The two synthetic Sandalwood samples that I have are both extremely enjoyable. These, and others like them, are probably the most useful notes in perfumery, providing a carrier for all of the other accords. One cannot possibly minimize their importance. Despite the fact that these are soft fragrances--in no way obnoxious or overdone--they are quite tenacious.

    Sandalore, synthetic – Soft, sweet, and diffusive. This seems to be the quintessential “carrier” substance; its pleasant, nondescript aroma wouldn’t clash with anything. It is not as easy to smell as the Javanol, which apparently is a newer product.

    Javanol, synthetic – Soft, sweet, diffusive, and a bit oily-woody. This is a nice attempt to recreate a realistic Mysore sandalwood. It has more character than the Sandalore. I could see using this in many, many situations.

    ....
    Last edited by purplebird7; 2nd July 2008 at 02:53 PM.

  47. #167

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Ionone beta: a mix of everything except citrus and spicy. it is sweet ,woody, floral, berry, fruity and whatnot. and yet one would never wear that as perfume.

    dihydro ionone beta: quite similar to the above. but the woody note there is more distinctive.

    iso e super: dry woody with pleasant ambery subnotes.

    leaf alcohol: boy, do you feel stupid when you smell it and your first impressions is "leaves"! i smelled it again and again, and it still was "leaves", big green juicy leaves, finally i also detected some banana aroma.

    ethyl linalool: spicy, spicy, definitely caraway sparkled with pepper, and this is so strong! i had to put away the strip because this one blocked all the other scents.

    Methyl Laitone: makes you think of babyfood. sweet milky vanilla with cocoanut butter.


    ambrettoloide: yes, musky! but it is kind of subdued and does not do too much for me.

    Oxyoctaline Formate: incensy smoky, rich wood note, very harmonious.

    black agar: this one is more interesting than some of the last synthetics i smelled, it is woody with berries and blossoms, after a while the berries with the blossoms seem to take over.

  48. #168

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    Ionone beta: a mix of everything except citrus and spicy. it is sweet ,woody, floral, berry, fruity and whatnot. and yet one would never wear that as perfume.

    dihydro ionone beta: quite similar to the above. but the woody note there is more distinctive. .
    I thought those ionones were supposed to smell like violets. Do they?

    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    iso e super: dry woody with pleasant ambery subnotes.
    Does it smell like Calvin Klein Eternity?

    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    leaf alcohol: boy, do you feel stupid when you smell it and your first impressions is "leaves"!
    Wait til you smell galbanum. Wow.
    It's the all-natural version of leaves.

    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    Methyl Laitone: makes you think of babyfood. sweet milky vanilla with cocoanut butter.
    Like a desert. Like coconut cream pie. Like pudding. Yeah, baby food. Something soft and mushy and sweet.

    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    ambrettoloide: yes, musky! but it is kind of subdued and does not do too much for me. .
    I liked Habanolide best. It was more of a white musk. And my Velvione was a bit dirtier, more animalic, sweaty. The ambrettolide was the weakest one, more like a sweet, kind of floral musk. All of the musks were soft, but they lasted a long time. I mean it--a month later I can still smell them where they lay in my trash can, even after the trash was thrown out long ago.


    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    Oxyoctaline Formate: incensy smoky, rich wood note, very harmonious. .
    Now that's interesting. I wonder what they derived this chemical from. Isn't it supposed to be a frankincense type of note? Some people have said that it occurs alot in men's fragrances.


    Quote Originally Posted by tamora View Post
    black agar: this one is more interesting than some of the last synthetics i smelled, it is woody with berries and blossoms, after a while the berries with the blossoms seem to take over.
    It would be nice for us to swap our agarwoods. Mine is light brown, pasty in texture, and smells like aged hardwood mulch, no berrylike undertones. Very dirty smelling, almost rotten, but in an attractive way. (That sounds contradictory, but it isn't.)

  49. #169

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Some Thoughts On Perfume Ingredients...
    Now that I've smelled about 50 absolutes and essential oils and 15 arom chemicals, am I better at identifying notes? Yes, because I am now able to identify these substances. And no, because I have never smelled the thousands of chemicals from which modern perfumes are comprised. So, I can use my new, scant knowledge to determine if a perfume smells similar to a substance that I know. Will I invest the time and money to investigate further? Probably so, but not in the near future.

    I did learn one important lesson: my quest to figure out how things "really" smell reveals that they don’t smell like they "should." The substances responsible for smelling like something beautiful in the real world do not exist anywhere but in the actual, living entities. Neither the naturals nor the synthetics capture real-life accurately; they are approximations. In fact, the only way to smell like a rose is to wear a wreath of live roses around one's neck. That being said, there are many substances that smell quite satisfying and rosy, and these can be combined in fascinating ways.

    That brings me to another point: if we cannot re-create an aroma, why not create something completely new that also smells beautiful? And that is the goal of perfumery. Similarly, a painting is less realistic than a photo, but it is the artistic impression of reality that makes it beautiful. The tangible application of paint—the layers of carefully applied media on canvas—make us decide to hang paintings on our walls instead of posters.

    So then, why use natural ingredients in perfume? We use them because of their complexity—their aromas cannot be accurately duplicated. Some natural ingredients are “borderline perfumes” all by themselves. In addition, they provide us with the matrix and the model from which new aroma chemicals are derived. We also use them for ethical reasons such as supporting sustainable cultivation of botanicals by the people of various countries, and for promoting personal health and environmental safety.

    So then, why use synthetics? Because they cost less, replace rare natural products, are relatively uniform and stable, and enable us to create a strong, long-lasting fragrances with good sillage. Synthetics focus on the desirable aspects of an accord and eliminate the “busy” background notes. And they are sweet, often much sweeter than most essential oils and absolutes. Importantly, they give us ways to create exciting new aromas.

    In some ways, perfumes smell more beautiful that the real world. They are bottles of concentrated pleasure, small and portable, which we can carry with us to use whenever we want. In contrast, the real world is filled with ever-changing aromas carried to us unpredictably on the breeze. In some ways, the real world smells more beautiful than perfume, providing us with scents can never be captured. It is a compromise--real versus man-made. We members of Basenotes can hardly imagine life without both. In all parts of the world, we carry on with our everyday lives, bearing our fragrances like wearable art, sharing our secret delight with others, and hoping to impart to them the pleasure of the often-neglected sense of smell
    .

  50. #170

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    So, what does a person do with all of these samples after buying them, smelling them, and describing them? Send them around to friends. But before that, let’s have a little fun.

    Announcing, the opening of:

    The Clueless Perfumery

    Our motto: “We are bold and daring—actually uncaring—about the outcome of our finished products. Not for sale in stores anywhere—and that’s a good thing.”

    So, join us, in practice or theory for an adventure in the art of mixing. The rules are few:

    1. Don’t worry about measuring. (I can only guess as to the percentages of absolutes and essential oils in my dilutions. Most are 5-10%, often too strong to safely wear on the skin). Just smell them on paper test strips.)
    2. Don’t count drops. We don’t need to recreate formulas. This is just for fun.
    3. If you cannot abide by rules one and two, please PM me. I have a quick-and-dirty method for making safe perfume without agonizing over complex formulas.

    Here are some ideas for a challenge:

    Classic Genre – Copy an existing formula, using its note pyramid.

    Favorite Things – Make a perfume using your favorite samples mixed together.

    Ugly Duckling – Choose a sample that you dislike. Base your perfume on this note. Try to turn it into something beautiful.

    Additive – Make an accord with similar notes. For example: use samples of one kind of flower, or from one specific category. Is the sum greater than the parts? Or do the notes cancel out each other’s beauty?

    Clashing – Choose two or more samples that purposely clash. Be counter-intuitive. What happens when you mix them?

    Imaginary – Imagine an object or an emotion. Express it with a fragrance.

    Just when you thought this thread was over...
    No, you're in for more bizarre behavior. Stay tuned to this channel...

  51. #171

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Nooo, the thread isn't over! I still have so many notes to fill in and will try to do it over the w/e - sorry P-Bird if I drag the thread back to the single components before starting my weird experiments

    My last resin was
    Turkish Storax - styrax officinalis, not to be mixed up with Turkish sweetgum or liquidambar orientalis. Black, sticky pieces of a gummy material, tinctured in ethanol, ratio about 1:1. After some research, I found out that styrax officinalis was used in antiquity, but isn't used in perfumes nowadays. It is used only as fragrant incense gum. I bet, since my tincture isn't as sticky as benzoin but is pitch black and stains! Interestingly, the gum smelled strongly of cinnamon and faintly of incense (a delightful cinnamon-y aroma!), but the tincture smells the other way round: strong incense - sweeter than frankincense - with a soft cinnamon aspect.

    Let me put together my greens, animalics and whatever else I have and I'll be back.
    Last edited by Lady_in_Black; 4th July 2008 at 05:34 PM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Sniffing around
    I'll stop wearing black when they make something darker

  52. #172

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Wow, what a treasure trove of information...Awesome Thread..Great contributions!!
    *Glued hopelessly to read it all in one sit*

  53. #173

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Oops I'm lagging behind. Here are my last few green/wood oils.

    Cedarwood (FO - origin unknown, probably an accord): odd smell, not one I would really associate with trees but almost minty Hmm maaaaybe there's a bit of wood, but I smell more toothpaste.

    Patchouli (FO): slightly thicker and yellowish. Bears very small resemblance to L'Artisan Patchouli Patch which makes me think of wet, earthy soil covered in mulch or the dirt underneath your nails after weeding but the oil is also somewhat sweet and sherbert-y. Hardly any resemblance to Fresh Index Patchouli Pure which I think of as a reference patchouli and reminds me of Hippies and Persian rugs. I don't think this stuff really smells like Patchouli at all.

    Lavender (EO in carrier): very thick and viscous even though the carrier oil is grapeseed. Odd, salty lavender and reminds me of Drakkar Noir when mixed with citrus FOs.

    Tea Tree (EO in carrier): not sure how to describe this but it smells somewhat similar to the lavender.

    Eucalyptus (EO in carrier): smells just like the leaves on gum trees from the oval adjacent to my primary school. Smells leafy and herbal.

    Rosemary (EO in carrier): herbacious, similar to lavender to my nose.

    Once again, poor descriptions sorry. The last four EOs were dilute and hard to smell. Maybe they were a bit old when I got them.

    I'm looking forward to mixing oils. Watch out if I start with "Favourite Things" coz it'll be one hell of a sugar dose!! Not sure which notes will clash though.

    Once again Purplebird, great thread!
    Last edited by jillsy; 5th July 2008 at 03:54 AM.

  54. #174

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Green
    My least favourite group of notes, so let's get over it

    Birch leaf
    , synthetic, 1% dilution in carrier oil: initially sweet green, almost fruity like very green banana or melon rind; later it becomes fresh woody and takes up a not so pleasant almost leathery smell.

    Leaf alcohol, aka (Z)-3-hexen-1-ol, 2% dilution in carrier oil: the familiar smell of freshly cut grass. Very realistic, brings to mind sweet smelling young foliage and the happy romps and frolics on the lawns as a kid.

    Galbanum, origin Turkey, 2% dilution in carrier oil: aha, this is a note I know. Like P-bird said, it is quite distinctive in the top of green chypres. A green smell, but not like tender leaves, unsweet, it reminds me a bit of raw white asparagus, with hints of bark and dry stalks.

    Wormwood (artemisia absynthium), 1% dilution in carrier oil: this is the one I liked most. Sweet and complex, with facets of anise and licorice, a pinch of fir needles and whiffs of wood and florals in its drydown. A fascinating note with considerable depth...I love it. To my nose, the perfume which renders this note justice is Serge Lutens Douce Amère.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Sniffing around
    I'll stop wearing black when they make something darker

  55. #175

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Taz, thanks.
    We really don't know how much people are enjoying this unless they post, except we do look at the total tally of "views" and are glad to see that this thread is entertaining and informing a few of you out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Cedarwood (FO - origin unknown, probably an accord): odd smell, not one I would really associate with trees but almost minty Hmm maaaaybe there's a bit of wood, but I smell more toothpaste..
    It was pretty harsh, wasn't it? I think it would make an interesting base note in something sweet and Oriental, the way Serge Lutens appears to have used it in Bois Oriental. Cedar would tend to "clean up" things when they get too gloppy and sticky sweet.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Patchouli (FO): ... I don't think this stuff really smells like Patchouli at all..
    That's weird. I'll send you a bunch of different patchouli samples, iron-free, etc. Maybe it's that sweet, chocolately note that you're looking for, the one that comes out when they add vanilla or amber or other sweet bases.

    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    Lavender (EO in carrier): ...Odd, salty lavender and reminds me of Drakkar Noir when mixed with citrus FOs.
    Tea Tree (EO in carrier): not sure how to describe this but it smells somewhat similar to the lavender.
    Lavendar never smells like a flower to me, more like aromatic herbs.
    And I don't like tea tree much at all. Meleleuca breaks down into nasty stuff.


    Quote Originally Posted by jillsy View Post
    I'm looking forward to mixing oils.
    Good deal!
    And I want you to send a little of the results to me some day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    Nooo, the thread isn't over! I still have so many notes to fill in and will try to do it over the w/e - sorry P-Bird if I drag the thread back to the single components before starting my weird experiments .
    No, not over, just moving on to another phase.
    Please do drag the thread wherever you want it to go.
    Backwards, forwards, sideways. Here we go...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    [U]Birch leaf, synthetic...sweet green, almost fruity like very green banana or melon rind; later it becomes fresh woody and takes up a not so pleasant almost leathery smell..
    Okay, that's a surprise to me. I'd like to see this one as a featured note in a perfume.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_in_Black View Post
    Leaf alcohol,...Very realistic...sweet smelling young foliage ...lawns...

    Galbanum...A green smell, but not like tender leaves, unsweet, it reminds me a bit of raw white asparagus, with hints of bark and dry stalks.

    Wormwood ...Sweet and complex, with facets of anise and licorice, a pinch of fir needles and whiffs of wood and florals in its drydown. .
    Wow, I liked those descriptions of the greens.
    Now I bet you like them more.
    I didn't get any wormwood because I haven't liked it yet.
    It would make another great "featured note" perfume.

  56. #176

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Leaves, Roots, and Stems--Citrusy

    Citronella (EO, Aura Cacia, Cymbopogon nardus from Guatemala/India)--3 drops on a cotton, wafted
    Sweet, meaty, grassy citrus--my sensation is that it seems very round, soft and deep without being harshly penetrating. The citrus is lemony, the grass is a little like rotting hay or vegetation that has been wet a long time. After sitting for several hours, the scent lost the "meaty" quality and smelled pretty much like a bug candle.

    Lemongrass (EO, origin unknown)--3 drops on a cotton, wafted
    Lemony, minty and earthy--it smells like the sun-warmed lemon mint plants I used to have in my garden (I think it was Melissa), but much more strong in the lemon part of the balance. Upon drydown, I get the same impression as purplebird--lemony dusting polish. It is pleasant, and sort of reminds me of Old English Lemon Oil. When dry, it is definitely much less sharp, and has a very nice mellow roundness that seems grassy and fruity.

    Palmarosa (EO, ATL Canada, Cymbopogon martinii from India)--3 drops on a cotton, wafted
    Mellow and peanutty with a hint of citrus. It is not unlike Citronella, but has far less emphasis on the citrus/"meaty" and more emphasis on the nutty. I really like this one--I can almost eat it! After drydown, the nutty quality and subdued citrus is still present. However, the fragrance seems to have opened, so that I now smell something which resembles scented geranium. It is not quite the same as pelargonium geranium (which is already listed in a different category), but it does remind me of one of the pelargonium varietals which smells vaguely floral but with a bit of lemon.

    Rosewood (EO, origin unknown)--3 drops on a cotton, wafted
    Lemony, oily, woody and a little herbal, almost like lavender flowers. After several hours, the scent hollows out, and it seems much more woody at this point. Maybe like fresh wood which has been polished with lemongrass oil, lol.

    (edited to add drydown comments)
    Last edited by Asha; 6th July 2008 at 02:21 PM.

  57. #177

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Purplebird, spikenard and lavandin are both aromatics somewhat similar to lavender. Palmarosa is from the same family as citronella, but is much less citrus in character. I have this one and have included it in my previous post.

  58. #178

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Asha I would like to smell palmarosa.
    Please PM me your address for the Big Swap of dilutions at the end of this project.
    As I read your post, I wondered if some of these aromatic/herbal/citrusy/woody ingredients could be combined to make an effective mosquito repellent.
    Most of the DEET spray that I use has some kind of aromatic fragrance added.

  59. #179

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Leaves, Roots, and Stems--Soft Woods

    Atlas cedar (EO, Oshadhi, Cedrus atlantica from Morocco)--3 drops on cotton, wafted
    This smells a little bit like urine, but does not have the biting ammonia component. It is soft with aspects which smell like peach or apricot combined with cedar bracts. Upon drydown, it loses the urine edge, becomes a bit more lemony, and has an overall soft evergreen effect.

    Calamus (EO, ATL Canada, Acorus calamus from India)--3 drops on cotton, wafted
    This one is difficult to describe. It is buttery, nutty, soft and sweet. It is from the same family as iris root/orris, so it has the same sweet, buttery quality, but it is not powdery. After several hours, the scent has not changed significantly, but it does smell less sweet/buttery and more nutty.

    Clary sage (EO, Aura Cacia, Salvia sclarea from Bulgaria/France/Russia)--3 drops on cotton, wafted
    Nutty and aromatic, sage-like, but less bitter. It is almost like a mild rosemary with a little bit of soft anise. Drydown is very medicinal, very much like rosemary, and the faint anise note is still there, but less strong.

    (edited to add drydown comments)
    Last edited by Asha; 6th July 2008 at 09:57 PM.

  60. #180

    Default Re: Note Identification Project - Please Join In!

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7 View Post
    Asha I would like to smell palmarosa.
    Please PM me your address for the Big Swap of dilutions at the end of this project.
    As I read your post, I wondered if some of these aromatic/herbal/citrusy/woody ingredients could be combined to make an effective mosquito repellent.
    Most of the DEET spray that I use has some kind of aromatic fragrance added.
    I think scented geraniums also repel flies and mosquitos, although they attract bees (not wasps) as do all the salvias. As an added bonus, the deer do not eat any of them

    Other aromatic plants which repel deer and are practically indestructible when neighbor dogs pee on them: artemesia (wormwood, southernwood), alchemilla (yarrow), lavender, and santolina (lavender cotton). I am not sure if these are good mosquito repellents, but I suspect they are. I have always wanted to smell yarrow EO, but it is very expensive!

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