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  1. #1

    Default Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    ...one raised by a rich uncle while the other was sent to the worst orphanage in the country?

    After sampling both now, the similarities are remarkable. Both are powerful, last a long time, and don't develop. Brut was like flavoring for a new, oddball candy that needs to be diluted for use. Kouros was like a concentrated disinfectant that needs to be diluted before using. The effect on the people around me (if I were to spray myself at least a few times) would be the same; they would hold their noses, leave the room, and tell me never to use either one again.

    Seriously, in terms of olfactory experiences, what is the major difference? A candy-like scent that is overwhelming versus a disinfectant scent that is overwhelming? That's all I can detect, and after sampling around 100 frags over the last several months, I can say that I've yet to come across similar frags. Vermeil has the clean/dirty thing going on that Kouros does, but it's much more interesting, and settles down like most strong frags do. I've also tried Ungaro II, which is much more subtle and engaging (also clean/dirty). I like gourmands, and don't mind the syrupy, nearly medicinal start to Jacomo Rouge, but Brut is a brutal chemical candy.

    Obviously, it's a matter of taste, but my point here is that these two frags are so similar, yet regarded as total opposites; Brut is for the thoughtless, Neanderthal "masses," while Kouros is for the frag aficionado who understand the most intricate, esoteric details of men's fragrances. If you like Kouros, why are you not rotating it with Brut? If I liked Kouros, I can't imagine not liking Brut. Or is there some justification for loving Kouros and hating Brut? If so, I'd really like to hear the explanation (assuming it's not just snobbery).

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    except that Brut actually smells decent......Kuoros has a stale sort of old-person-on-laxatives-that-didn't-work-but-still-going-out-on-the-town aura to it.....

    Brut 1
    Kuoros 0

  3. #3

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Am I missing something? I would never have paired those two fragrances.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    IMO, there is zero similarities between the two.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    twins !! ..... I think his nose is burnt out

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  6. #6

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    If you read the Perfumed: The Guide book reviews of these two frags, I think you'll be surprised. I do agree with everso in that if you used a very small amount of Brut (perhaps even diluted it first with perfumer's alcohol) it might be mildly pleasant as a change of pace. For those who don't understand my point, I ask you to take a step back and consider why you think this is a strange comparison. Is it that smelling like a urinal cake is "avant garde," whereas smelling like strange candy is too common? I'm just trying to understand frags as best I can. I have no horse in any race.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Quote Originally Posted by irish View Post
    Am I missing something? I would never have paired those two fragrances.
    That's exactly what I was thinking too... Brut and Kouros similar? naa...


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  8. #8

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    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    After sampling both now, the similarities are remarkable. Both are powerful, last a long time, and don't develop...
    Twins they are not, but as Fougères they share a remarkable number of characteristics of course, except being bold and going through interesting phases from start to finish. They certainly meet in three important middle notes (Patchouli, Jasmine and Vetiver). One ends mossy-powdery, and woody warm the other. Differences: Brut is sharper and drier, except towards the end. Kouros is more mellow all the way through, and ends as a leathery wood. They both have enough things going on to split them into half a dozen new colognes for little boys !
    Last edited by narcus; 15th May 2008 at 04:39 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Maybe GRAND HAIRY MUSK is similar in both?
    Vetiver The Great!!!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    I find Brut more similar to Rive Gauche, cant say i detect any similarity between Kouros and Brut though.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    both are poles apart IMHO

    btw....is their a release called "hairy brut"? tht cud be the culprit...

  12. #12
    Renato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    In the H&R charts, Brut is ambery fougere while Kouros is pretty close to it, nestled between the Woody Fougere and Ambery Fougere columns. So style wise, they are fairly similar though not in the exact same category.

    What you fail to understand Bigsley, is that there once was a time when men wanted to smell like men, and the women wanted them to smell that way too. If you've smelled a 100 scents, the likelihood is that you've smelled mainly semi-feminised male scents - and erroneously think that's the way all masculine scents should be.

    The notion that people would hold their noses and leave the room is fallacious. Try it and see. The notion that only Neanderthal types like Brut could be true - if you class people like me who owns 37 niche scents, as Neanderthal.

    I love it. My only problem with it is that the EDT doesn't last long enough, so I often go for the very similar smelling but longer lasting, Fred Hayman Touch.
    Renato

    P.S. - I really like Kouros too, but only in summer.
    Last edited by Renato; 15th May 2008 at 09:36 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    If you like Kouros, why are you not rotating it with Brut? If I liked Kouros, I can't imagine not liking Brut. Or is there some justification for loving Kouros and hating Brut? If so, I'd really like to hear the explanation (assuming it's not just snobbery).
    Perhaps it is the anise, the ylang-ylang or just that it is an uninteresting composition, but Brut holds no attraction to me. Brut, Paco Rabanne pour Homme and Drakkar Noir are the bottom feeders in my collection. Kouros, on the other hand, is in the top 10% of my collection.

    Hopefully your nose will continue to develop to the point where you can appreciate both the significant and subtle differences between 'overwhelming' fragrances. Contrary to popular belief, there is not a separate familial classification of fragrances named 'overwhelming'.
    Last edited by TwoRoads; 15th May 2008 at 10:53 AM.
    Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and sorry I could not travel both and be one traveler, long I stood and looked down one as far as I could to where it bent in the undergrowth; Then took the other, as just as fair, ...... I shall be telling this with a sigh somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost

  14. #14

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    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoRoads View Post
    Perhaps it is the anise, the ylang-ylang or just that it is an uninteresting composition, but Brut holds no attraction to me. Brut, Paco Rabanne pour Homme and Drakkar Noir are the bottom feeders in my collection. Kouros, on the other hand, is in the top 10% of my collection.

    Hopefully your nose will continue to develop to the point where you can appreciate both the significant and subtle differences between 'overwhelming' fragrances. Contrary to popular belief, there is not a separate familial classification of fragrances named 'overwhelming'.
    I must come to the defense of Paco Rabanne and say that it's many times superior to Kuoros in nearly every way.....don't really see any reason for it being a "bottom feeder"

  15. #15

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Quote Originally Posted by everso View Post
    I must come to the defense of Paco Rabanne and say that it's many times superior to Kuoros in nearly every way.....don't really see any reason for it being a "bottom feeder"
    I understand your sentiment - many other people share them. I have tried to love them. I keep them in my collection so that I can retry them periodically - hoping that my nose will eventually accept them.

    Both Paco Rabanne and Drakkar Noir have been inducted into FiFi's Hall of Fame. Brut is a perennial contender for the mass-market Basenotes' Award.

    I guess that is why there are more than twelve thousand fragrances. If we all liked the same things how drab life would be.
    Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and sorry I could not travel both and be one traveler, long I stood and looked down one as far as I could to where it bent in the undergrowth; Then took the other, as just as fair, ...... I shall be telling this with a sigh somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost

  16. #16

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    I also do not find those fragrances similar at all. How did you come up with that idea?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Well, whatever is "powering" these 2 frags is very similar. They are both one-dimensional, powerful, long-lasting, and can clear out a room (if the people I hang around with are any indication). One is a sickly, chemical candy smell and the other is a sickly, chemical disinfectant smell. That is the only difference !

  18. #18

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    I'll just add that I realize that some components might be different, of course, but that if there is a very strong, sickly smell that overpowers you, it's not really that important whether it's a weird candy smell or a disinfectant smell. If some people have a higher threshold for tolerating such strong smells, then I can see why he would consider there to be a significant difference. However, if you are being blinded with light, you really don't care if it's got one tint or another to it, do you? In this case, both of the scents have a sickly, chemical smell to me that is incredibly strong. Eight hours later and there is no development into anything more tolerable, different, or interesting. Perhaps these frags are for guys who sweat a lot (or perhaps the tolerability threshold varies tremendously from one person to another, though as I said, I will still wear Vermeil, Carlo Corinto, Francesco Smalto, Ungaro II, etc. once in a while, but I'll never go near Kouros again).

  19. #19

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Seems to me the only thing they have in common, is the fact that they have almost nothing in common, except that they are both strong, and that you don't like them.
    No guru, not method, no teacher
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    After thinking this over quite bit (admittedly, more than I probably should have), I wrote up a review of Kouros for BN, and since it will take a while for approval, I'll post it on this thread now:

    "I envision a futuristic world, like the bubble-domed one in Logan's Run, where Kouros is sold in a novelty store, situated between the rubber chicken and the fake vomit. Or perhaps it will be in a museum, and visitors will be able to actually get a whiff of it, if they dare! By that time, public restrooms will smell much better than they do now (in most nations).

    Kouros is a powerful, long-lasting, sickly chemical scent that features no subtlety and no development (on my skin, at least). Keep in mind that I'm not some twenty-something aquatic guy. I like Vermeil, actually, which I'd recommend to anyone who likes this kind of frag over Kouros (it's got powerful animalic notes and also that "fake clean" quality). Or Ungaro II, if you can find it at a reasonable price. I also like Carlo Corinto once in a while, which features strong leather and dark amber notes.

    I recently tried Brut (before trying Kouros) and that is similar, in that you get a strong, long-lasting sickly chemical scent that has no subtlety and doesn't develop. It's amazing that these two fragrances are on the opposite ends of the spectrum, in terms of price and prestige. I can only image that if you sweat profusely, somehow Kouros will develop into something that is remotely tolerable. I'd also warn you that this kind of fragrance can cause your sense of smell to change, as Sung Homme did to me. Now I have such sensitivity that I usually can only stand one spray of an EDT, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, since it saves me a lot of money, though I don't appreciate the stronger fragrances the way I used to (when I really liked Vermeil and had to wear it once a week)."

  21. #21

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    and the battle wages on.. no matter what...Kouros will always remain on top...to each own...

  22. #22

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Keep in mind that I'm not some twenty-something aquatic guy. I like Vermeil, actually, which I'd recommend to anyone who likes this kind of frag over Kouros (it's got powerful animalic notes and also that "fake clean" quality)."
    I am sorry but I cannot resist asking - if you like Vermeil so much, why is it on your swap/sell list?
    Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and sorry I could not travel both and be one traveler, long I stood and looked down one as far as I could to where it bent in the undergrowth; Then took the other, as just as fair, ...... I shall be telling this with a sigh somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost

  23. #23
    Renato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Now I have such sensitivity that I usually can only stand one spray of an EDT, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, since it saves me a lot of money, though I don't appreciate the stronger fragrances the way I used to (when I really liked Vermeil and had to wear it once a week)."
    Well, I hate to say this, but if some kind of hypersensitivity mode has striken you, all of your comments on scents are pretty much compromised. Presumably, if you revisit all the other scents you've previoulsy tested, you'd write as negative stuff about many of them as you are writing about these two.

    One spray of EDT delivers about as much scent output as you'd get from applying say Gillette or Mennen aftershave balm, and significantly less output than what you'd get by applying Lynx or Old Spice underarm antiperspirant or deodorant. Quite frankly, why bother with fragrances if no one's going to notice you're wearing them, as most other guys will be smelling better than you, albeit with cheaper stuff?

    I suggest you give them a rest for a while till this terrible affliction passess, and you get back to being your old fragrant self again.
    Cheers,
    Renato

  24. #24

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Well, people do notice the EDTs I'm wearing now, so I don't think I'm that hypersensitive. It's really an interesting issue, one that I don't think Turin or any other expert has discussed in depth. As I said, I can still appreciate the "clean/dirty" Vermeil, which has nice blending (compared to Kouros), as well as an interesting tangyness, and does develop over time (unlike Kouros). Now one issue could be that I hardly sweat at all and frags develop on me (or just linger) in a similar way to when I spray on paper, and Kouros might not be designed for this. However, in my view, fragrances as "works or art" need to develop over time. "Foetidus" pointed out in one of his many, many reviews that when he writes up a review, he considers development for ratings purposes, yet it doesn't affect his enjoyment of the frag (if it doesn't develop over time). Thus, talking about Kouros as a "masterpiece" is puzzling to me, not because of the urinal cake thing, but because by any "artistic" standard I can think (in the world of frags) of the cheapo Vermeil is so much better (if we put the clean/dirty thing aside).
    Last edited by Bigsly; 16th May 2008 at 08:40 PM. Reason: spelling error

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Well, people do notice the EDTs I'm wearing now, so I don't think I'm that hypersensitive. It's really an interesting issue, one that I don't think Turin or any other expert has discussed in depth. As I said, I can still appreciate the "clean/dirty" Vermeil, which has nice blending (compared to Kouros), as well as an interesting tangyness, and does develop over time (unlike Kouros). Now one issue could be that I hardly sweat at all and frags develop on me (or just linger) in a similar way to when I spray on paper, and Kouros might not be designed for this. However, in my view, fragrances as "works or art" need to develop over time. "Foetidus" pointed out in one of his many, many reviews that when he writes up a review, he considers development for ratings purposes, yet it doesn't affect his enjoyment of the frag (if it doesn't develop over time). Thus, talking about Kouros as a "masterpiece" is puzzling to me, not because of the urinal cake thing, but because by any "artistic" standard I can think (in the world of frags) of the cheapo Vermeil is so much better (if we put the clean/dirty thing aside).
    Well, you went from however many sprays you were using which you could stand to, in your words, not being able to stand more than one spray. Your sensitivity to scents must have changed - that's what the whole of your previous post said.

    Consider this. Brut in its various forms (which are always strong) is worn by tens of millions of men around the world. Have you, prior to a couple of days ago, spent your entire life constantly been turning up your nose and going "Uhhgg" and leaving the room or vicinity when you came across someone wearing Brut? (This is something I've done to a lesser extent my entire life with Old Spice.) In my opinion, the answer is most probably no. Yet, a few days ago you discover Brut to be a loathsome scent, something which previously you had been oblivious to. I'd put it down to your sensitivity plainly having changed.

    It is pointless applying the criteria of "development" for rating purposes, to scents that in the main were designed by the perfumer to be relatively linear. Bvlgari Black is the classic example, with what you spray on being what you get for the rest of the day. The same is pretty much the case for Art of Shaving Lemon. Azzaro Chrome and Azzaro Pure Vetiver are also both pretty close to being linear. True, a lot of the cheaper scents (like many De Varens ones) often are very linear - for cost cutting purposes. But that doesn't mean you can't have an excellently crafted, quality linear scent where what you get for the rest of the day, is exactly what you tested and which you think is really good.
    Renato

  26. #26

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    The type of musk they use in the OLD Brut (I don't know, but before 1970 at least) is one of the best synthetic musks EVER made!
    Well, as far as smell goes, it could be poisonous as hell, you never know with stuff from that era...
    No guru, not method, no teacher
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  27. #27
    Dimitrios's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Quote Originally Posted by jenson View Post
    and the battle wages on.. no matter what...Kouros will always remain on top...to each own...
    In the world of frags it will still be the King of Controversy well into the next century !

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  28. #28

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    An old post... but Brut was the first fragrance I really consciously chose. I grew up with Old Spice but since it was bought out by Proctor and Gamble several years ago the brand has been declining, until, the horror, they finally decided to reformulate and make it cheaper. I started wearing Brut about three years ago, and two years ago I got seriously into trying new fragrances.

    Brut is not a disgusting fragrance and not overly sweet. If it smells that way to you, you are wearing too much. I haven't tried Kouros, but plant to do so soon... but I'd be surprised if they smelled the same. Brut has definite notes of vetiver, jasmine, musk, sandalwood, tonquin, and ylang ylang, not candy, to my nose. I've tried the Faberge and the Helen of Troy versions, and to my noses they are both very similar, if not identical. Perhaps the vetiver in the Helen of Troy version is slightly different but its so subtle it could honestly be nothing.

    Even though Brut is a mass-market fragrance it really isn't cheap smelling at all and I've gotten compliments wearing it. It is also uniquely American and was created by a "nose" named Ed Silkin who has an interesting story for his life and it was obvious the fragrance was created with alot of care and passion. I definitely think Brut is a classic.
    Last edited by Magnulus; 29th June 2008 at 11:38 AM.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Brut is greener, it contains more vetiver, more oakmoss and more spices to me.
    Kouros is quite sexual with a strong urine/musk note.

    Both are very nice but Brut is easier to wear.
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  30. #30

    Default Re: Brut and Kouros: Twins separated at birth...

    Nothing makes me think these are alike.

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