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  1. #1
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    Default Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    Here is an extract from an article on Yahoo:

    A Paris court on Monday ordered the online auctioneer eBay to pay 40 million euros (63 million dollars) in damages to Louis Vuitton for selling fake luxury goods online.

    The commercial court ruled in favour of six LVMH brands which accused eBay of putting on sale fake handbags, clothes and other luxury goods and of illicit sales of perfumes in a case that began a year and a half ago.

    eBay, the world's biggest online auctioneer, was ordered to pay 19.28 million euros to LVMH and 17.3 million euros to its sister company Christian Dior Couture for damage to their brand images and causing moral harm.

    It must also pay 3.25 million euros to four perfume brands -- Christian Dior, Kenzo, Givenchy and Guerlain -- for sales in violation of its authorized network.

    The court barred eBay, which said it will appeal against the ruling, from advertising the cosmetic or perfume brands on its website.

    LVMH had argued that eBay had failed to do enough to prevent the sale of counterfeit copies of their goods and that it did not have legal permission to sell its authentic products.

    (link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080630...ompanylvmhebay)
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    WTF? 40 Million Euros?


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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by javagreen View Post
    WTF? 40 Million Euros?
    Have you ever seen the price tags on LV merchandise??? I'm not at all suprised by the amount.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    It sounds like the first step in outlawing perfume sales on ebay. I will be criminalized and driven into the underground
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    "illicit sales of perfumes" doesn't necessarily mean counterfeit perfumes...but interesting nevertheless. I don't know how French law works, but that would be appealed to death anywhere else, and the amount paid would be significantly less.
    Currently wearing: Sycomore (new) by Chanel

  6. #6

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    Get 'em cheap while you can

    Anything that shafts ebay is fine by me.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

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  7. #7

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    LVMH was not just freakin' out over counterfeits- they stated that their perfumes could only be sold through outlets of their own designation. This means, to me, that eventually the goal is to clamp down on all secondary sellers, though how far they will go remains to be seen. I'm not happy about the large number of counterfeits sold on ebay, who is, but the secondary market is very significant, and I don't think it should be seen as a problem. Complicated issue.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by scentsitivity View Post
    LVMH had argued that eBay had failed to do enough to prevent the sale of counterfeit copies of their goods and that it did not have legal permission to sell its authentic products.
    Whoa. Excuse me? Last I checked I didn't sign a license agreement when I bought a pair of LV sunglasses.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    It sounds like the first step in outlawing perfume sales on ebay. I will be criminalized and driven into the underground
    What I wonder about is can such rulings can shut down other marketplaces (e.g., basenotes marketplace).

    Can I sell an LVMH product that I bought for myself and decided it wasn't for me?
    Currently wearing: Augusto by Mazzolari

  10. #10

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    Do I applaud this step by LVMH for fighting counterfeit goods? Yes... counterfeiting is a major problem. I read in Consumer Reports once about car brake pads made out of compressed kitty litter and other atrocities. Still, I know someone who has been burned by counterfeits several times (on eBay, no less), but he won't stop buying junk off of eBay. However, he has become more vigilant about his eBay purchases.

    Still, to me, sneaky eBay sellers that sell counterfeits are parasites that infect legitimate online and bricks and mortar businesses, especially in perfumes and other luxury goods. I read a study done by Chrysler once... they found that a new car buyer with a negative reaction tells ten times more friends about their experience than one with a positive reaction. The same thing could easily be said for fragrances.

    Last, but not least: Keep in mind that LVMH also owns Sephora, their own authorized sales channel for their perfume and cosmetics brands (that also happens to sell many LVMH competitor brands while they're at it). And Sephora is pretty darn big (and growing), especially in France, the US, the Middle East, and China.
    "It always seems impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    t must also pay 3.25 million euros to four perfume brands -- Christian Dior, Kenzo, Givenchy and Guerlain -- for sales in violation of its authorized network.
    Without knowing just what this means, we have no way of knowing just what happened. "Authorized network" could mean any number of things from eBay's agreement with them to eBay not being authorized to resell at all.

    LVMH covers a multitude of products beyond perfumes. This decision was not directed specifically at perfumes. It was about eBay not doing enough to prevent the sales of counterfeit goods. Be they sunglasses, luggage, or perfume.

    While there can be an argument made that eBay doesn't "sell" any more than the organizer of a flea market "sells", it would be beside the point (if not out and out refuted by the court) now.

    LVMH claims it was to prevent sales of counterfeit goods and that eBay wasn't doing enough; eBay claims it was to put a stranglehold on alternative sales outlets. Personally, I believe eBay's argument is not really believable.

    I think it was a good decision. Counterfeit goods don't do anyone a favor. If the ruling permits eBay to continue selling products with guidelines in place that prevent the selling of counterfeit goods and satisfy the manufacturers, then everything should be fine.
    Brent

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    My guess is that the key legal point concerns who is deemed the "seller." If ebay is considered a marketplace, such as an outdoor flea market, they can't be told to control (or stop) what one person sells to another, from what I understand. Of course, a European court can disagree with a US court, right?

    As to the counterfeit issue, a court can decide that a site like ebay is "turning a blind eye" to such sales, though one would hope there is abundant evidence to support such a ruling.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 30th June 2008 at 10:44 PM. Reason: error correction

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    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    IMO Ebay pays lip service to monitoring it's auctions for counterfeits. It took a Big Boy (LVMH) and a sympathetic French court to hold their feet to the fire while in the past the individual buyer was more or less cast adrift by an Ebay that failed to enforce rules on their sellers.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder View Post
    Anything that shafts ebay is fine by me.
    Ditto
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesoul View Post
    Whoa. Excuse me? Last I checked I didn't sign a license agreement when I bought a pair of LV sunglasses.
    Good Lord - just imagine a EULA for Dior or Kenzo. On second thought, let's not give the lawyers any ideas. "You do not own this perfume - you only have a license to wear it." Horrors.

    However, that much being said, I remain disappointed in the off-scent of my probably-counterfeit L'Eau par Kenzo, even though it was not bought on eBay, and wish the damned counterfeiters many sleepless nights in cheap motels, on the run.

    Several musician friends of mine have seen their precious stolen instruments appear and then disappear on eBay. I almost regard eBay as an untouchable fencing operation.

    Hmmm. Maybe that's a legal angle. Luxury houses may not get the same deep-pocket sympathy that eBay's numerous crime victims would.

  16. #16

    Smile Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    So now I know why I can't list new items for sale on eBay! I recently sold some genuine Chanel that I had purchased from a housewife in Pacific Heights (chi chi SF neighborhood) on eBay. Then tried to sell the rest of her stock (she suddenly decided that Chanel screamed grandma! though was previously a Chanel fanatic!) and they wouldn't let me list it. Or anything else! And no explanation.
    Frankly (pun intended), 63 million is probably NOTHING for eBay. A mere nuisance to them. I think it's the possibility of future lawsuits from other manufacturers that is the real issue for them.
    I am now joining the "anything that shafts eBay is alright by me" posse. Now, what do I do with all this perfume.....LOL!

  17. #17

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by ubuandibeme View Post
    Have you ever seen the price tags on LV merchandise??? I'm not at all suprised by the amount.
    Yes, on a pair of LV Sunglasses.. needless to say I didn't buy those because I didn't think it was really worth the asking price. But still, 40 Million Euros in fine seems totally unrealistic.


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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    vive la france a l'enfer avec ebay! they absolutely have turned a blind eye to people selling fake creeds and chanels and whatnot. . . . I mean, come on people now, well all know this!!! I hope every other company that has seen ebay ripping them off follows suit (no pun intended!)

  19. #19

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    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    I think they may be making a distinction between other sellers on eBay, and items for sale in the eBay marketplace.

    I don't think this will affect sales of fake items - pirates will always find a way.

    e.g. White text on a white background that says "This product is not authentic." Technically the information was there, but was "inconspicuous."
    Last edited by baudilus; 1st July 2008 at 11:59 AM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    If the only thing I bought on eBay were fragrance, I am sure I would feel as negative some of the opinions expressed here.

    My other love is books. I can say I have bought well over 5,000 books on eBay, many antiquarian and rare, many at bargain prices and never once a fake! Probably 1-2% of the time, I get something poorly described, but rarely have felt ripped off. Maybe 5 times, always due to poor descriptions.

    So I will echo the dissatisfaction with how eBay has handled the issue of counterfeit fragrance. At the same time I love other aspects of the eBay marketplace.
    Currently wearing: Augusto by Mazzolari

  21. #21

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by scentsitivity View Post
    What I wonder about is can such rulings can shut down other marketplaces (e.g., basenotes marketplace).

    Can I sell an LVMH product that I bought for myself and decided it wasn't for me?
    That is precisely my worry. It is entirely legitimate to go after counterfeiters, of course, and the channels they use, but this action is also about perfume houses controlling distribution - they want the advantages of the grey market, while keeping it under their surveillance. And individual buyers/sellers who want to take advantage of a platform such as ebay will be the locked out. I say this as an interested party, having bought a good 80% of my perfumes through ebay and disposed there of those I didn't like. Don't forget decanting was already banned on basenotes in apprehension of corporate action. The marktplace might be next.
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  22. #22

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    Ebay has moved far on from being a place for people to auction their unwanted second hand goods. The introduction of shops, buy it nows, etc has meant that lots of people use it for business reasons, it doesn't require the set up costs of a dedicated website and offers a massive buyership with no adverstising outlay. Goods are ordered from suppliers on deals designed for selling through bricks and mortar shops and then are sold without permission on ebay. I can see why this makes producers uncomfortable.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

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  23. #23

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    eBay are still accepting LVMH goods for auction it seems, I've just placed an auction for Coriolan (dont buy it, I'm not selling) (see http://www.basenotes.net/industry_ne...bay-fined.html)
    Currently wearing: Gardénia by Chanel

  24. #24

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    I hope the more sales of fake crap on eBay will cease but people keep trying to hock them off. The world is full of useless, cheap junk as it is. eBay to me is the Wal-Mart of the Internet, crammed isles, loud mouthed people and filled with MADE IN CHINA tags.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    A friend of mine bought an LV handbag a few years back there. A week after the auction, ebay sent this person an email saying that there might be a problem (don't know exactly what it said, didn't read it) and to contact the seller. The seller was eventually removed from ebay. However, this person saw the same item there about a year later, from a different seller. It's not that difficult to get someone else to sign up on ebay and then sell through that person's name, so long as you have at least a dozen or so friends and relatives. This is why ebay needs to be more proactive about it than they seem to be.

    And what about other sites, like craigsligst? I just went over there and saw someone selling an LV bag. The person said that he or she thinks it's authentic but is not sure. It is selling for less than $100, so we all know what that means !

  26. #26

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    I've noticed a recent increase in decants on EBay. This indicates they aren't running a constant screen for terms like decant, vial, etc. Surprising.
    Cornlily

  27. #27

    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    I don't think they will ever be able to stop any private individual from selling their own property second hand. You can still list decants on ebay uk.

    By the way - I will sell a bottle of coriolan for a pound less than grant's
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

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  28. #28
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    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by cornlily View Post
    I've noticed a recent increase in decants on EBay. This indicates they aren't running a constant screen for terms like decant, vial, etc. Surprising.
    Cornlily
    As an aside, a few months ago on eBay I won a decant of Penhaligon's Cornubia with decant advertised in the auction title. And there are two active decants listed currently (as auctions).
    Last edited by scentsitivity; 1st July 2008 at 05:06 PM.
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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by SirSlarty View Post
    ... eBay to me is the Wal-Mart of the Internet, crammed isles, loud mouthed people and filled with MADE IN CHINA tags.
    LOL! I can just imagine Indie's obnoxious Cart Lady on eBay, too!

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Ebay fined by French Court over Counterfeit Goods, Perfumes

    I think it might be a blessing if ebay would go away, fragrance wize!

    I'm a woman who loves a bargain! the problem is I end up spending twice as much as I would on things I want on things I am compelled to lurch for cause "it's such a great deal"


    yes, usually I can sell em back on ebay, and perhaps even make a profit

    but. . . all the work involved and the ludicrousness of it all!

    especially since my wardrobe is now more or less "complete" I would welcome ebay's demise in the fragrance dept ....

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