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  1. #1

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    Post Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Buried deep in 'Perfumes: The Guide' is the following quote about Creed.... I take no sides in the 'hate Creed/love Creed' wars that go on here, but I couldn't help but spit up the ice tea I was drinking after reading this:

    from pp. 241-242

    Millesime Imperial [2 Stars] metallic citrus

    Creed's claim to being purveyors of perfume to various royal and imperial houses of Europe is dodgy: their use of the Three Feathers device (wisely minus the "Ich Dien" motto) on all their fugly packaging suggests they have a Royal Warrant from the Price of Wales, which to our knowledge is not and has never been the case. One is inclined to take with a pince of salt the long list of deceased emperors and empresses that they allegedly helped smell better. Ditto the supposed trouble to which they go to to obtain rare essences and extracts: slow, expensive, low-yield things like tinctures, which would even Guerlain blache. Creed's fumes abundant use of synthetic materials and are only slightly above average in use of naturals.....[the review of MI continues]

    also, under 'Green Irish Tweed' (p.188), which he gives 4 stars, he makes a point of analyzing the construction as a "brilliantly imaginative accord of Ambroxan (metallic amber), dihydromyrcenol (gray citrus), and octin esters (green violet leaf) sweetened by a touch of apple up top and sandalwood below."


    Again, I have nothing against Creed fragrances, there are some I really like (but I don't own any). However, I've long thought that their steep prices were simply a marketing ploy to create an aura of exclusivity and make Creed buyers feel as though they are buying a superior product when in fact their fragrances are on par with any other European house. If what Turin says is true, my hunch is probably correct because the alleged cost of obtaining natural raw materials really does not justify the absurd prices.

    I deliberately posted this here to avoid the flaming that would ensue if certain people saw this on the male fragrance board.

    Hopefully some people with more industry knowledge than me can comment?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Please look up the "Turin and Creed" thread for more discussion on this.
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    right on bbBD!

    i find their scents to be all hype, with no substance.......

    they're not really a niche company IMO....they're just a mainstream designer label, that sells their cheaply made stuff for more expensive prices TO SEEM like a real niche company...i've never been impressed by a Creed fragrance, and i've tried NEARLY all of the modern produced ones.......until they make something worthwhile, i'll try to knock em down to bring this whole thing down to reality.

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    Please look up the "Turin and Creed" thread for more discussion on this.
    Given the extremely narrow subject matter these boards cover, there's bound to be repetition, but since not everyone sees every thread and perhaps didn't participate in an earlier thread, or perhaps because a previous discussion went in one direction, I see no harm in bringing up the topic again. This quote was new to me.... no harm no foul, but I will check out the earlier thread to see what people had to say.

    btw, I love your reviews ZZ...

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Oh god, not this again. It doesn't matter where you place it, people will find it. And this corpse didn't need resurrected. IMHO. A search, as suggested above, will give you all the results, venom, and hilarity surrounding same.
    Brent

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  6. #6

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Lots of things in the world enjoy very comfortable profit margins, I am sure Creed is no different. If you don't like the price or you feel the item is not worth the amount asked then buy something else. There are lots of other great colognes and perfumes to choose from ranging from cheap to lavishly expensive.

    Case in point, I bought a Surefire flashlight last week. It was $110.00 as Surefire has MAP pricing in place to prevent anything less than MSRP from being charged by their dealers. Some feel MAP pricing is unfair, others feel $110.00 for a flashlight is absurd, however they are the name that all other flashlight companies are measured by. I could have bought a comparable light from another company, it probably would have been just as good but I chose the premier brand in lighting because I would not have been happy with anything else.

    I do not buy Creed colognes because of their royalty claims or their premier status in the industry, I by them because I like the scent I am purchasing and they last, at least Himalaya and Erolfa which are the ones I wear. However without their premier status I probably would have never been interested in trying them.
    Last edited by Kahuna Cowboy; 11th August 2008 at 02:34 AM.

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    my apologies, my apologies, my apologies.... I really had no intention of starting anything and I often forget the general consensus that it's better to read old threads than start new ones. I can only suggest that anyone who doesn't want to read this thread stop immediately and pretend it's not there.... I ignore about 95% of all threads on BN and I'm sure everyone else can do the same.

    Again, my bad.

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Creeds on the whole are classic, simplistic, masculine scents that not everyone can pull off.
    Actually, it takes a special guy to pull them off.
    Last edited by samplermike; 11th August 2008 at 05:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by samplermike View Post
    Creeds on the whole are classic, simplistic, masculine scents that not everyone can pull off.
    Actually, it takes a special guy to pull them off.
    LOL. a special guy like you?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    I would like to see an investigative journalist take a serious look at Creed's marketed history and claims of partonage. I am quite skeptical of these claims like many, but at this point there is no documented disproof.

    I see Creed to be like Rolex: a luxury brand that markets well and that charges the maximum that the market will bear. Like Rolex, the quality of the product is merely adequate IMO, on par with other mass market fragrances (no better or worse, on average). And also like Rolex there's nothing wrong with buying it if that is what you like and you don't mind paying the brand-premium.
    "When he shook hands with me my nostrils were assailed by all the perfumes of Arabia."
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  11. #11

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    I would like to see an investigative journalist take a serious look at Creed's marketed history and claims of partonage. I am quite skeptical of these claims like many, but at this point there is no documented disproof.

    I see Creed to be like Rolex: a luxury brand that markets well and that charges the maximum that the market will bear. Like Rolex, the quality of the product is merely adequate IMO, on par with other mass market fragrances (no better or worse, on average). And also like Rolex there's nothing wrong with buying it if that is what you like and you don't mind paying the brand-premium.
    There's no documented disproof of the Bible's version of the creation of the universe, Adam and Eve either. That still doesn't mean the Bible tells the truth. Some people just love myths more than reality. Even the myth about fake Creeds is widely believed. If I was a journalist, I wouldn't investigate time to uncover silly nonsense like that, and ask to be sent to south Ossetia, or Tibet instead, find out more about Child labor in China or work slaves in India. Louis Vuitton has managed to block tens of thousands in Europe to visit their favorite perfume suppliers on Ebay. (This is still going on, and at the core of it may be a myth also.) People who prefer to live in a dream world deserve to be relieved from their excess dollars, even via fake Rolexes and Louis Vuitton's plastic suitcases.

    With the inflation of new millionaires all over the world, Creeds and Rolexes will sell like Hamburgers in years to come. The newly rich in Russia, China, the Wall Street - wherever - don't know too much about the things they are buying. Rolex is one of the best symbols of wealth, due to the marketing (which forms a considerable part of the cost :-). 95 % of the wearers have them to be 'recognized' on the spot.

    Other than an average Creed, a genuine Rolex is still top quality, I believe.
    Last edited by narcus; 12th August 2008 at 07:14 AM.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Creed would have been a good subject for Agatha Christie to write a book on...

  13. #13

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Every fragrance house has its "spiel." Most grand histories are made up marketing fluff, whether it's Creed, Carthusia, the new Rancé, or 4711. Those companies that actually have a tradition usually don't mention things like previous bankruptcies, resurrections and concomitant product reformulations (Penhaligon's or Crown would be typical examples here).

    Creed was a small and renowned fashion house for the European upper crust which had its glory days from the era of Napoleon III to the early twentieth century. That is the period that the present-day perfume house refers to when citing their service to royalty and aristocracy. Actually, even the royal warrants reprinted on the private collection cartons are not explicitly for perfume, but for clothing, riding gear etc. Historically, the Creeds are significant as tailors and listed in fashion handbooks, while they are quite irrelevant to the history of perfumery, which was obviously just a side show of their bespoke operation.

    The fashion house seems to have folded for good some time in the 1950s or early 1960s & Olivier Creed must have decided to use the house's prestige as a marketing instrument in building a new perfume house. As we know from the ebay auction of some vintage late 1960s or early 1970s bottles, he apparently sold his first colognes under his own name, as Olivier Creed Eau de Cologne (the content allegedly being what is now Selection Verte). Wether the bespoke perfume service directly transformed into the perfume house only Creed knows, but if he dates are correct, there is a constant, though narrow trickle of creations (Jasmal 59, Aubepine & Epicea in 65, Irisia 68).

    As to the nature of Creed perfumes, there is no question that they are different from most other lines, in that many of the older ones do have a high natural oil content and form relaitvely simple compositions which live through the quality of the ingredients. This is a style which Turin doesn't particularly care for or consider relevant for perfume culture, which, together with his (somewhat selective) disdain for pompous marketing makes Creed one of his "special" friends. Surely if it came from any other house he would have given GIT 5 stars and a few other Creeds he praises 4 instead of 3. He rates roughly half of all Creeds positively though (3 or more stars), which isn't all that bad, really. He also fails to review many of the, IMHO, most interesting Creeds, most of all Vintage Tabarome, but also Orange Spice, which is historically important for inspring Kouros (and quite good, as well), Baie de Genievre, Royal Delight and many others.

    The general trend for Creed since the 90s has seemingly been towards more designer oriented perfumes, greater reliance on new synthetic molecules and appealing to a younger clientele. That seems economically a wise move, even if the proportion of Creeds that I personally like will probably be decreasing (I'm not a fan of MI, SMW, VIW, OS). They do need to update their copy on tincures and rare essences. E.g., I am pretty certain after comparing Santal Imperial from 2003 and 2005 that it has radically changed from a high Mysore sandalwood content to highly synthetic.

    I understand that Creed has managed to load its brand with a cultural meaning that makes it the object of intense adoration and hate, depending on who's looking at it. I happen to find the marketing rather unbearable, while thoroughly enjoying the wonderful Royal English Leather, Bois du Portugal, Orange Spice, Baie de Genievre, Selection Verte, GIT, Epicea, Cypres Musc and others. For the reason of these perfumes alone I wish Creed a long life, even if that means reading the same carefully placed PR blurb in some glossy men's mag again and again (well, one more reason to avoid glossy men's mags).
    Last edited by the_good_life; 11th August 2008 at 09:11 AM.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    I have just under 20 Creeds. I love the scents and I'm a big fan of the house style. However, I have one thing that makes me wonder about Creed's story: What's the oldest bottle of Creed that can be found floating around in circulation. People on here can find vintage bottles of the Guerlains etc, but does anyone have a bottle of Creed that was produced before say 1980? And if so, what kind of bottles did they come in? I'm curious as to what's the oldest bottle of Creed that anyone can produce.

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Thank you, the_good_life for actually giving some perspective and intelligent analysis instead of mindlessly spouting a polarized opinion.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by Indie_Guy View Post
    I have just under 20 Creeds. I love the scents and I'm a big fan of the house style. However, I have one thing that makes me wonder about Creed's story: What's the oldest bottle of Creed that can be found floating around in circulation. People on here can find vintage bottles of the Guerlains etc, but does anyone have a bottle of Creed that was produced before say 1980? And if so, what kind of bottles did they come in? I'm curious as to what's the oldest bottle of Creed that anyone can produce.
    ItIt must be this one, which was auctioned off on ebay a while ago. Late 60s/early 70s, judging from the other stuff this guy was selling from the stock of his parents or so perfume store closed a long time ago:
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    It's up for auction now (again?). If you read carefully the line above 'Creed' reads Olivier and it's supposed to be an eau de cologne. I dunno, it doesn't come off as very authentic imo.
    Looking to swap/buy/receive for free () the following samples/decants:
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    Versace The Dreamer 50ml (1.7oz) BNIB
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Creed is a line that never did much for me, but I don't find them overpriced. Some of the lines that are out now make Creed seem like a relative bargain

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    As usual, there exist those who talk the talk but rarely ever walk the walk. If one feels slighted by Creed's prententious marketing, that individual is entitled to file suit against Creed and subsequently become a very rich person. Posting about it in a public venue does nothing and is purely speculative. Amazing how after all these years there is not one shred of proof that Creed has lied to the public. If it bothers you that much, do the research and get back to us when something of substance is actually uncovered. This is your lottery ticket. Until then, let the juice flow and enjoy.

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by samplermike View Post
    As usual, there exist those who talk the talk but rarely ever walk the walk. If one feels slighted by Creed's prententious marketing, that individual is entitled to file suit against Creed and subsequently become a very rich person. Posting about it in a public venue does nothing and is purely speculative. Amazing how after all these years there is not one shred of proof that Creed has lied to the public.
    What would be the legal theory underpinning the lawsuit? This statement doesn't make sense.

    The purpose of posting on BN (which is a private venue, not a public venue) is to invoke discussion. No other 'purpose' is required. Settle down Mr. Mike - it's just a discussion, and if it bothers you don't click on the thread.

    No one is saying Creed 'lied' - the discussion seems to be on the merits, or lack thereof, of their marketing tactics.


    the_good_life's post below provides an excellent background of Creed of which I was unaware. That's some good writing!

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by bbBD View Post
    it's just a discussion, and if it bothers you don't click on the thread.
    Only if we can get you and certain others to do that on pro-Creed threads...

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by samplermike View Post
    Only if we can get you and certain others to do that on pro-Creed threads...
    LOL - you're funny. Buddy, I'm not pro or against anything - which is actually the first thing I posted on this thread. The last thing I would ever do is interject my opinion where it doesn't belong, and I dare you to find a post by me where I interject on a 'pro-creed' thread with an anti-creed opinion.

    "Only if we can get you and certain others" HA! Who is the 'we' in 'we can get you'? You're actually proposing a 'deal'? The seriousness with which you posts on a cologne message board cracks me up.....That'll keep me laughing through lunch! Thanks!

    I now wish, again, I had kept my mouth shut.... all the people that warned me it was impossible to have a mature conversation about this kind of stuff, because there will be those who cannot emotionally handle such a thread - you were all right, I was wrong... never again.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by samplermike View Post
    As usual, there exist those who talk the talk but rarely ever walk the walk. If one feels slighted by Creed's prententious marketing, that individual is entitled to file suit against Creed and subsequently become a very rich person. Posting about it in a public venue does nothing and is purely speculative. Amazing how after all these years there is not one shred of proof that Creed has lied to the public. If it bothers you that much, do the research and get back to us when something of substance is actually uncovered. This is your lottery ticket. Until then, let the juice flow and enjoy.
    Get off it. There are intelligent and thoughtful comments on this thread, and it's not cool to discourage that. Further, there are members who have specifically stated that they make comments and observations about the house's issues separate from likes and dislikes of their products, yet you continue to try to mock and squelch such. The house advertises as it advertises and thus gets comments and thoughts on that.
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Historically, the Creeds are significant as tailors and listed in fashion handbooks, while they are quite irrelevant to the history of perfumery, which was obviously just a side show of their bespoke operation.
    The good_life, as usual, provides great and insightful reading. Nearly all Creed articles (or interviews), when discussing their history, mention their origins as a saddle or leather goods maker. So there's no misdirection in that. They also state that their fragrances contain a "high percentage of natural ingredients in the French perfume industry" (something which even Turin has acknowledged in the book, despite some sporadic inconsistent negative reviews stating otherwise). Nowhere have Creed stated that they are "all natural", a claim which makes some neophytes spasm with jitter attacks and cause them to post "AReZ CREEDz aLL NatuRELZ??" threads (as far as I know, amongst the big name niche houses, the only all natural organic fragrance is L'Artisans' Jatamansi).

    BTW, how many of these now famous fragrance houses (30 years old or older) were originally initiated as Perfume houses? Except for Guerlain and L'Artisan, I can't come up with any other (there are ofcourse the smaller Molinards, etc.) It doesn't matter much in the end though. One of my favorite houses, Czech & Speake, is traditionally a bathroom fittings maker (albeit upscale ones..). And I am willing to bet that most perfume critics consider their fragrances to be historically irrelevant ...but heck do they smell fantastic or what. And thats what counts the most.
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    One of my favorite houses, Czech & Speake, is traditionally a bathroom fittings maker (albeit upscale ones..).
    Okay, I would have never thought that. Or perhaps it was like this " ...bathrooms can stink.....so do people....wait a minute, we have an idea !! "

  26. #26

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by DustB View Post
    The house advertises as it advertises and thus gets comments and thoughts on that.
    Exactly.

    Also, Creed's "fans" are annoying.

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by SirSlarty View Post
    Exactly.

    Also, Creed's "fans" are annoying.
    yep!

  28. #28

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Why is Creed so polarizing?
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    So much for the intelligent conversation.

    Even if their pricing is just a ploy - and not based on the cost of the materials - it is certainly a successful one since there are plenty of people who are willing to pay. I wouldn't pay that kind of money for their frags - or for any other frag, for that matter - but I certainly won't begrudge them for getting people to pay that much (they're a business, after all), or begrudge those who think the price is worth it.
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  30. #30

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    ItIt must be this one, which was auctioned off on ebay a while ago. Late 60s/early 70s, judging from the other stuff this guy was selling from the stock of his parents or so perfume store closed a long time ago:
    See what I mean, then? Where are the old bottles of Epicea and Ambre Cannelle? Stuff that supposedly came out in the 50's and 60's. Forget the dates when it was supposedly produced, can somebody produce a bottle of Orange Spice that was made before, say 1981? I hope someone can (because I like Creed), but it nags at me.

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