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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by Diverdown View Post
    IMO Samplermike being banned is unfortunate for although he was wildly fanatical and blinded by the Creed propoganda machine he always brought his unique one sided spark and zest into posts he was involved with.

    I for one always looked forward to the "sh**s and giggles" that his posts brought to the forum and his zealous, fanatical unfaltering faith in all things Creed.

    Erwin Cr..., er I mean Mike, will be sincerely missed

    In a perverse way, I’ll miss him too. Though some of his pronouncements were difficult to swallow (to be polite about it) - and he couldn’t see that criticism of Creed was not criticism of himself - at least he was extreme in support of something he loved. It sometimes seemed that a few of his critics/sparring partners were trying to convince others that they shouldn’t enjoy their Creeds or were stupid for buying them (and yes, at times he seemed to be suggesting that people were stupid for not liking Creed). If he had found a company that met all of his fragrance needs and brought him joy, then good for him. I don’t share his enthusiasm, but I’m not going to knock him for it. [understatement alert!] Perhaps the way he presented himself needed some work, though. [end understatement alert.]

    On a side note, I hope he was banned for things we didn’t see, since his posts were often no more obnoxious or personal than some of the Creed-bashers. But perhaps that’s none of my business.

    Now, who will take up Mike’s mantle and support all that is Creed? Maybe I’ll create a new identity and start posting as “SamplerMac.” Or “SimplerMike.” Be afraid. Be very afraid.

    And just to add something to the original post, while I find the marketing to be obnoxious and probably unverifiable (like most marketing), many basenoters love Creed's frags and gladly pay the steep prices for them. While maybe some of them may have bought into the hype, I think it's safe to say that most are intelligent enough to choose based on their nose and not a marketing campaign.
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  2. #62
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Let's assume for a moment that the Creed perfume history is not an entire (1968 LSD induced) fabrication by a wealthy hippie named Olivier Creed

    (1) It would seem Creed never publicly sold or advertised perfumes, contrary to Farina, Guerlain etc. Purely a minor bespoke service complementing their offer of leather & riding goods and textiles. Of course isolated bottles would perhaps have survived, but I doubt anyone has ever cared. Cred probably would for marketing purposes, but there simply isn't enough to show off with. Creed perfumes, so they existed, were culturally irrelevant and did not enjoy particualr contemporary reputation. Otherwise they would have mentioned in passing in diaries, correspondence, newspapers etc. and they are not.

    (2) Can somebody call and find out? I doubt any are there.

    (3) see (1)

    (4) As far as I can see, the newer Creed blurbs no longer refer to this, or am I wrong? I believe the technique is still used by natural perfumers who make their own perfume oils? Costly, time consuming, less effective than other methods, no idea whether the results are better. Anyhow, perhaps Creed does this for a select amount of products used in a few perfumes. Though I really would be interested in touring their production facilities. Is there a millionare among us whop could get himself invited? We do know they use synthetics, and probably also the available state of the art technology, these days.
    Can someone please find Penhaligons, Trumpers and Floris bottles from the 1800s-early 1900s on Ebay or elsewhere for me please ?
    -

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by everso View Post
    WOO HOO! heads have rolled!

    he was waaaaaaaay too one dimensional. i don't mind someone loving a brand of perfume, but he made it a point to basically advertise one brand in EVERY and ANY thread----related or unrelated to Creed....that was just over the top IMO.
    The Rive GaucheMmmm Thread with you( and him) was pretty funny. I hope he comes back

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    Can someone please find Penhaligons, Trumpers and Floris bottles from the 1800s-early 1900s on Ebay or elsewhere for me please ?
    I've actually seen old Penhaligon's bottles occasionally. They tend to look very generic, derived from apothecary moulds perhaps, green/dark glass, the paper labeling is usually gone or no longer legible, in some models the glass was embossed with the company name.
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  5. #65

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    I'm no Creed fanatic, so I can't take the place of Mike, but I have to disagree with those who jump on the hate bandwagon. I see how many people call out house fanatics for jumping on a bandwagon of doing nothing but talking about that house and only reccomending that house, but there's another side of the coin where many people jump on the hate bandwagon and do nothing but insult and demean the house. Both are equally guilty so stop thinking you are holier than thou to those that praise the house

    Creed is a niche house just like the other's, it is certainly of greater quality than any designer house I have come across, and their prices are well within the range of other quality houses; Bond No. 9 and Montale come to mind, so why bash it?

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by s0me0nesmind1 View Post
    Creed is a niche house just like the other's,...
    You know, that's the point where I really agree with you. I'll even go you one further: Creed is a house just like any other. Doesn't matter if it's called a niche house or not, it makes products that we smell likers can decide to smell when we're lucky enough to have the juice handy to our noses. They make things that we're interested in as smellers, so their stuff is in the realm of our hobby interest.

    Maybe there are some people and even some members here who refuse to have any interest in the house. Maybe they're turned off by the advertising--it won't be the first time a company's advertising has turned off consumers. Maybe they're turned off by claims and reputations made by sales associates--again, it won't be the first time that's happened. Maybe they're turned off because the new ones displease their noses, or the old ones, or because the box and bottle don't fit their aesthetic. It won't be the first time people have made likes and dislikes on such information. If there are people who dismiss the products of the house let 'em. Who cares? So what? Some people just don't like any smells by any one manufacturer some times. Well, fine. I don't have X brand or Y brand in my collection so I guess one could say that I don't like their stuff. Not my thing. Good thing there are other makers out there that please me.

    Learning why people dislike Creed, say, is part of the discussion, if they're willing and able to seriously explain their thought. If they are, then you'll know why that person has the dislike you don't share. If they don't explain, well who cares and let them have their misery.

    Of course I'm not really talking to you, SomeonesMind, I'm using your post to talk about discussion of the product on the forums. If you've stuck with me this long please don't feel singled out.

    Where I disagree with you in some measure though, is that the forum doesn't divide into the Creed-haters and the Creed-lovers. Many people cycle through this site and read and reflect on the content of these posts. They have complex thoughts about this house just as they have complex thoughts on anything else. Because they don't like the advertising doesn't mean they're in the Creed-hater pail. Because they think--rightly or wrongly--the products cost too much doesn't mean they are lumped in to the Creed-hater group.

    These two divisions, Creed-haters and Creed-lovers or any other terms used for them are false. What we have among the great majority at Basenotes are people who will discuss the house. This is a discussion board, after all. Members are free to discuss their thoughts on the house and don't need to preface their comments with "I like Creed, but..." "don't get me wrong, I've got some Creeds myself, but..." or any of that other junk. You can come to the forum and give us your thought straight up. Discussion is open, within the rules of course. It's neglect and disrespect of the value of members's toughts to throw them into the Creed-hater or Creed-lover pails. When members do that they're just not seeing that Creed is a house like any other, and a manufacturer of things we might like and might not like. For a variety of reasons each way.

    Sorry for all this long wind. No condescention intended at all friends.
    --Chris
    Last edited by DustB; 14th August 2008 at 05:40 AM. Reason: I forgot to put in the thing I was quoting.
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  7. #67

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    As a budding industry insider, I have been lucky to see the GC/MS formula of Green Irish Tweed and in fact several niche formulas, and I have to say that it is a well built fragrance with very good and thus expensive raw materials. It is a very pricey formula, and I would spend the money to buy another bottle. There is good niche and there is bad niche. But Creed offers quality fragrances - that I can assure you.

    - Scentophile

  8. #68

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Sorry for the hijack but I've got to ask: scentophile, do you have free access to do a GC analysis of a scent? I'd love to see what's inside of L'Antimatiere. (of course, maybe not, that might kill the magic)

  9. #69

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by s0me0nesmind1 View Post
    I'm no Creed fanatic...., but there's another side of the coin where many people jump on the hate bandwagon and do nothing but insult and demean the house. Both are equally guilty so stop thinking you are holier than thou to those that praise the house

    Creed is a niche house just like the other's, it is certainly of greater quality than any designer house I have come across, and their prices are well within the range of other quality houses; Bond No. 9 and Montale come to mind, so why bash it?
    I don't think people have been insulting or demeaning the house.... but rather it's been an interesting series of points and thoughts on Creed's marketing (and some other items as well).

    While the prices are in line with others, like Bond 9 and Montale, Creed is far more widely available. My local mall stand sells everything from Stetson to Creed, costco.com sells Creed, and every online retailer stocks Creed as well. I realize that the wide availability is not an indictment of the quality of the fragrance, but it does diminish the aura of alleged 'exclusivity' when you can pick it up GIT at a mall in Beaumont, Texas (the small town I live in).

  10. #70

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by bbBD View Post
    I don't think people have been insulting or demeaning the house.... but rather it's been an interesting series of points and thoughts on Creed's marketing (and some other items as well).

    While the prices are in line with others, like Bond 9 and Montale, Creed is far more widely available. My local mall stand sells everything from Stetson to Creed, costco.com sells Creed, and every online retailer stocks Creed as well. I realize that the wide availability is not an indictment of the quality of the fragrance, but it does diminish the aura of alleged 'exclusivity' when you can pick it up GIT at a mall in Beaumont, Texas (the small town I live in).
    It's true but why worry about exclusivity that much? The fact that it's sold on Costco.com isn't going to make an average joe that happens to see it at Saks fifth avenue anymore likely to throw down $150+ for a 1.0-2.5 oz fragrance.

  11. #71

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by scentophile View Post
    As a budding industry insider, I have been lucky to see the GC/MS formula of Green Irish Tweed and in fact several niche formulas, and I have to say that it is a well built fragrance with very good and thus expensive raw materials. It is a very pricey formula, and I would spend the money to buy another bottle. There is good niche and there is bad niche. But Creed offers quality fragrances - that I can assure you.
    - Scentophile
    Turin praised Green Irish Tweed as "brilliant, legible, perfectly balanced". Rating: * * * * . Among the raw materials: Ambroxan, dihydromyrcenol, octin esters, and whatever is responsible for the green apple and sandalwood notes. None of these are naturals, I suppose, and it doesn't disturb me. I am glad that you are attesting its good quality also. I cannot judge the costs of the total formula, but we know from C. Burr and others that material costs are generally just a small fraction of the whole anyway. I would see GIT on the same high level as Bois du Portugal myself.

    Others I happen to know well: Millesime Imperial (label: metallic citrus; rating: * *), and Silver Mountain Water (label: fresh metallic; rating: *) are on a much lower level in my own books, rather average the first, and smelling cheap the second. Small wonder that guys sometimes suspect being victim of fraud.

    Maybe somebody can give me good reasons to mistrust the following labels. Unfortunately, I see none:
    Vetiver
    : 'not vetiver'
    Tabarome: 'not tobacco'
    Santal Imperial: 'not sandalwood'

    I haven't known much about Creed before I stumbled into Basenotes. Are there other websites infected by the same bug? It's just another perfume brand to me and certainly not niche. I respect some of their fragrances, don't like some others, and feel indifferent about the vast majority. Their distribution and marketing policy is a bit misguided. Miscellaneous other aspects I commented on before.
    Last edited by narcus; 14th August 2008 at 02:59 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Narcus,

    I know it is difficult to understand the industry. I sat in your position and I still hold onto some of the questions that you demand. As basenoters, we are different in the sense, we want a little more in terms of the product and also the knowledge. But the industry is not run around us. The industry will not show you the formulas to justify the price.

    I speak as a budding student perfumer. I went into the perfumery industry for the art and as someone who held onto my wallet. And I thought in terms of natural and not natural. Expensive and not expensive. I thought niche = expensive formulas and naturals. Boy was a completely wrong.

    What people do not know are the constraints on a company and on the perfumer... the price being one thing and regulation being another of many. Something that people have to know is that naturals are REALLY expensive.

    To please and to please consistently is one of the hardest things to do. If you are not aware, fashion companies shoot hundreds of fragrances into the market hoping that theirs will hit. Creed, being a company with a small team, has been able to keep giving consumers a consistent line of things more than decent. That is something that I respect.

    Scentophile

    PS. Sandalwood is very expensive. There is vetiver and good vetiver in OV. Tobacco absolute does not smell like the tobacco you smell in a bar.

    I stand that perfumery is still art and maybe the name of the fragrance and the smell does not match. JCE's Bulgari... tea? not really for a tea fanatic, but it's going in the right direction. What's interesting is that there is a fragrance out there that is called Vetiver something something (I can't say what), but there is actually little to no vetiver inside... not even the synthetics used to give vetiver (vertofix, vetveryl acetate, etc.) but the perfumer gave the illusion of vetiver in his own way. Now that is perfumery. And I think some consumers would be pissed off paying so much for a vetiver fragrance without the "real" deal inside.

  13. #73

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by scentophile View Post
    Sandalwood is very expensive. There is vetiver and good vetiver in OV. Tobacco absolute does not smell like the tobacco you smell in a bar.

    I stand that perfumery is still art and maybe the name of the fragrance and the smell does not match. JCE's Bulgari... tea? not really for a tea fanatic, but it's going in the right direction. What's interesting is that there is a fragrance out there that is called Vetiver something something (I can't say what), but there is actually little to no vetiver inside... not even the synthetics used to give vetiver (vertofix, vetveryl acetate, etc.) but the perfumer gave the illusion of vetiver in his own way. Now that is perfumery. And I think some consumers would be pissed off paying so much for a vetiver fragrance without the "real" deal inside.
    I know there is Vetiver in OV, but I talked about 'Vetiver' (1948), not OV (2004). Misguided product policy: they should discontinue a few perfumes and might even gain prestige: Vetiver would be one candidate, Tabarome Millesime another.

    Royal English Leather (1780) and Vintage Tabarome (1875) are very good, popular fragrances, and I've sometimes wondered how it was possible to make these more than 100 / 200 years earlier. I wish you could tcomment on these a bit, scentophile. There is a review that names 'green tea' as a note in VT. That's possibly based on an error. But it could also be proof that the current VT is in fact a much younger creation. It was Bulgari who 'invented' the green tea note, I thought.
    Last edited by narcus; 14th August 2008 at 03:47 PM.
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  14. #74

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    There is a review that names 'Green Tea' as a note in VT. That's possibly based on an error, or proof that the current VT is in fact a much younger creation. It was Bulgari who 'invented' the green tea note, I think.
    What do you mean? A reviewer can detect a green tea note in a fragrance. Notes, accords, whatever are used to describe a certain association in words. It does not at all give a definite insight in molecules used in the fragrance.
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    I
    Royal English Leather (1780) and Vintage Tabarome (1875) are very good, popular fragrances, and I've sometimes wondered how it was possible to make these more than 100 / 200 years earlier. I wish you could tcomment on these a bit, scentophile. There is a review that names 'green tea' as a note in VT. That's possibly based on an error. But it could also be proof that the current VT is in fact a much younger creation. It was Bulgari who 'invented' the green tea note, I thought.
    there really is NO evidence that these scents really existed back then, aside from Wikipedia and the Creed website....until there is evidence (old bottles, etc..), i choose not to believe any of those lies

    I, personally, seem to think that Olivier Creed invented this company, i don't see anything to prove otherwise...

  16. #76

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    I know there is Vetiver in OV, but I talked about 'Vetiver' (1948), not OV (2004). Misguided product policy: they should discontinue a few perfumes and might even gain prestige: Vetiver would be one candidate, Tabarome Millesime another.

    Royal English Leather (1780) and Vintage Tabarome (1875) are very good, popular fragrances, and I've sometimes wondered how it was possible to make these more than 100 / 200 years earlier. I wish you could tcomment on these a bit, scentophile. There is a review that names 'green tea' as a note in VT. That's possibly based on an error. But it could also be proof that the current VT is in fact a much younger creation. It was Bulgari who 'invented' the green tea note, I thought.
    What I wanted to say is it's the concept. It was Jean Claude Ellena's interpretation of tea. It is written somewhere that someone complained to him that his accord didn't smell like tea and JCE said that the guy had missed the whole point. Perfumery is art and not solid truth. Gardenia doesn't exist as a raw material, but then perfumes are built around this odor. It might not smell head-on like gardenia, but it is the perfumer's interpretation of it.

  17. #77

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by everso View Post
    there really is NO evidence that these scents really existed back then, aside from Wikipedia and the Creed website....until there is evidence (old bottles, etc..), i choose not to believe any of those lies I, personally, seem to think that Olivier Creed invented this company, i don't see anything to prove otherwise...
    You may be right. But, unfortunately, that is just not sufficient. We must dig deeper. I'm sure the truth can be unearthed, but the language is another handicap. There must be an important reason why these fragrances have never been entered to French directories like Osmoz, and why next to nothing is known about perfumers engaged by Creed.

    Quote Originally Posted by scentophile View Post
    Perfumery is art and not solid truth. Gardenia doesn't exist as a raw material, but then perfumes are built around this odor. It might not smell head-on like gardenia, but it is the perfumer's interpretation of it.
    True - same as the 'lilies' in Passage D'Enfer. It's a masterpiece nevertheless, but for other reasons than transporting 'the idea' of (Bourbon) lily. To me, Art begins on a stage beyond. That's hard to explain, though. I have no handy definition of art in general, much less in perfume. It often has to do with information contained in what we see, hear, or smell.
    Last edited by narcus; 15th August 2008 at 02:22 AM.
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    You may be right. But, unfortunately, that is just not sufficient. We must dig deeper. I'm sure the truth can be unearthed, but the language is another handicap. There must be an important reason why these fragrances have never been entered to French directories like Osmoz, and why next to nothing is known about perfumers engaged by Creed.

    Creed having been a family-run business for generations would suggest they have a very good company archive. Historical and economic studies have been done on the basis of the Farina archive in Cologne, which has always been open to those with an interest. Of course, they don't have anything to hide.

    Olivier Creed's approach to these matters has been characterized by a discretion unusual even in the beauty business. There's the standard Potemkin-narrative which is reproduced in PR features and interviews, but never any hard facts about history, production techniques, volume, ingredients (zztops interview with erwin creed was almost revolutionary in that regard). Even at this point, when it has become de rigeur to brag about the noses that make your perfume, Creed choses the family business image, pretending the master perfumer (&son) does it all by himself. Any other firm would proudly note Bourdon's involvement in GIT, yet we only know about it through Turin. As long as that kind of policy is in place, speculation and doubt and blind belief will abound, but of course "keeping 'em guessing" is in itself quite an effective kind of PR.

    @zztop: if Creed was purely a bespoke service, it might not even have had company flacons, after all, until the turn of the century, perfume would be decanted into a personal flacon anyway. That could be an explanation for the absence of physical artefacts. That the name appears in sources only in a fashion context and not ever in reference to perfume, is a more vexing issue. One could however try to access the archives of the Royal household and check whether George III ever comissioned REL. Such papers will certainly have been preserved in Britain, if perhaps not in other now non-monarchies.
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    One could however try to access the archives of the Royal household and check whether George III ever comissioned REL. Such papers will certainly have been preserved in Britain, if perhaps not in other now non-monarchies.
    That and ofcourse Creeds own records. I believe Michael Edwards (at his site) has confirmed most of the dates via Creed themselves. We could always shoot Edwards an email...
    -

  20. #80

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    And the Oscar goes to Creed for Best Adapted Screenplay based on a flimsy premise.

    Some other unanswered questions:

    Did Coco Chanel spy for the Nazis?
    Was Jicky really a man?
    Does Luca Turin have vested interests in Estee Lauder?
    Ralph Lauren-Lipshitz; if your lip sh*ts then what does your ass do?

  21. #81
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Probably like a lot of BN members, I've gone through this thread to try to see what all the fuss is about. I consider myself to be fairly neutral on the subject of Creed. I own a 1.0oz bottle of Bois du Portugal, which I like very much, and may possibly buy some "Vintage" Tabaróme in the future. None of the other Creed fragrances I've tried excite me much, but I haven't tried all of them yet either. I haven't found Creed to be inordinately more expensive than other niche lines (e.g. Tom Ford Private Collection, By Kilian, etc), so it's a bit mysterious to me why it is such a lightning rod.

    The battle reminds me of the sort of verbal jousting that goes on between people who like different sports teams, or who favor different sports cars. It's almost as though certain people feel a need to defend particular brands after they have committed to purchasing them. Obviously this sort of behavior is not likely to be discouraged by companies themselves, which will only encourage people to act as promoters of their products. But what is clear is that if the average consumer could emotionally divorce himself from a product, there would be little need to feel defensive if that brand is attacked. It would also mean that companies would spend more time trying to actually improve the quality of their products, instead of trying to use psychology to build brand loyalty. Statistically significant emotional involvement and lack of objectivity, in the long term, only hurt the consumer.
    Last edited by Astaroth; 14th August 2008 at 07:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    And the Oscar goes to Creed for Best Adapted Screenplay based on a flimsy premise.

    Some other unanswered questions:

    Did Coco Chanel spy for the Nazis?
    Was Jicky really a man?
    Does Luca Turin have vested interests in Estee Lauder?
    Ralph Lauren-Lipshitz; if your lip sh*ts then what does your ass do?
    too funny.

  23. #83

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    I really don't understand what the big deal is here. I happen to really enjoy Creed. Even though it is slightly expensive, they make a lot of great smelling and unique fragrances. Further, many of their good fragrances are ACCESSIBLE, something not all niche fragrances are. And even though they happen to be expensive, there are pretty decent prices online. Again, I can't really comprehend why people care so much on both sides. If everyone on basenotes hated Creed, I would still wear it and enjoy it because I know exactly how I want to smell, and I get that with Creed fragrances, among others.
    Last edited by leor_77; 14th August 2008 at 08:06 PM.

  24. #84

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by leor_77 View Post
    I really don't understand what the big deal is here. I happen to really enjoy Creed. Even though it is slightly expensive, they make a lot of great smelling and unique fragrances. Further, many of their good fragrances are ACCESSIBLE, something not all niche fragrances are. And even though they happen to be expensive, there are pretty decent prices online. Again, I can't really comprehend why people care so much on both sides. If everyone on basenotes hated Creed, I would still wear it and enjoy it because I know exactly how I want to smell, and I get that with Creed fragrances, among others.
    Agreed. Well said
    I'm a colognosaurus. Rawr!

  25. #85

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by scentophile View Post
    Something that people have to know is that naturals are REALLY expensive.

    ...

    Scentophile

    ...

    PS. Sandalwood is very expensive. There is vetiver and good vetiver in OV. Tobacco absolute does not smell like the tobacco you smell in a bar.

    I stand that perfumery is still art and maybe the name of the fragrance and the smell does not match. JCE's Bulgari... tea? not really for a tea fanatic, but it's going in the right direction. What's interesting is that there is a fragrance out there that is called Vetiver something something (I can't say what), but there is actually little to no vetiver inside... not even the synthetics used to give vetiver (vertofix, vetveryl acetate, etc.) but the perfumer gave the illusion of vetiver in his own way. Now that is perfumery. And I think some consumers would be pissed off paying so much for a vetiver fragrance without the "real" deal inside.
    As one working exclusively with all naturals, I can only nod emphatically to the first point. It's a bit depressing only because using all naturals it is just impossible to rival the longevity and diffusion of something like a Montale.. it's hard to match an EdT like Grey Flannel, even if I jack up the dilution to Parfum level (30% or a tad more.) So not only are they expensive, but to get something that has similar longevity to the average EDT you need to use about 2 to 5 times as much raw jus.. so the price increases by an order of magnitude. And still, most won't be satisfied with the longevity or sillage, and surely wouldn't be satisfied if a natural perfumer charged enough to make the same profit margins as others.

    And yes, it is entirely possible to create the illusion of notes without them being there. Magnolia leaf oil dries down to a bitter tea like note, magnolia C02 to a softer 'cleaner' tea note, as does guaiacwood (one of the primary contributors, along with a light pepper, to the tea accord in Bvlgari, if my nose serves me correctly) and others I'm surely forgetting at the moment.

    Regarding Creed - I tried to be as open minded as possible when sniffing my first Creed, but to be honest I went into the experience with a bad taste in my mouth due to the endless and meritless rants of some 'Creedheads.' I was prepared to be underwhelmed and write the house off as a strange BN peculiarity, but I really like what I've sniffed (GIT only, but I've got to check the mail my Erolfa, Neroli Sauvage, Millesime Imperial, SMW and Himalaya should be here!)

    To the mailbox I go!
    Last edited by SculptureOfSoul; 14th August 2008 at 08:51 PM.

  26. #86

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    That and ofcourse Creeds own records. I believe Michael Edwards (at his site) has confirmed most of the dates via Creed themselves. We could always shoot Edwards an email...

    confirming these dates with Creed is USELESS...not credible at all IMO. They can come up with things out of their arse for all we know!
    Last edited by everso; 14th August 2008 at 08:52 PM.

  27. #87
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    And the Oscar goes to Creed for Best Adapted Screenplay based on a flimsy premise.

    Some other unanswered questions:

    Did Coco Chanel spy for the Nazis?
    Was Jicky really a man?
    Does Luca Turin have vested interests in Estee Lauder?
    Ralph Lauren-Lipshitz; if your lip sh*ts then what does your ass do?

    ROFL!! LAMO!! ROFL!! LMAO!!

  28. #88
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    I was prepared to be underwhelmed and write the house off as a strange BN peculiarity, but I really like what I've sniffed (GIT only, but I've got to check the mail my Erolfa, Neroli Sauvage, Millesime Imperial, SMW and Himalaya should be here!)

    To the mailbox I go!
    of wht i have, which is Erolfa, SMW, GIT, Green Valley and a sample of Himalaya....i find Erolfa the most satifying and direct from the olfactory perspective...its has some wonderful interplay of notes which is almost visible to naked eye....a fun scent for any scento-holic like us....

  29. #89

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    I just dabbed a bit on, along with a dab of MPG's Centaure on the other wrist. I wanted to stop there but I just can't resist getting a quick sniff of ALL of these on skin (along with those mentioned, I also got Parfum d'Empire Iskander and Hermes Osmanthe Yunnan.)

    Gotta love when a sample pack arrives! So far I'm like the Erolfa much much more than Sandflowers - which actually smells very marine'ish but flat, like the scent of a sweet lagoon with just a hint of kelp.. the smell itself I guess is okay but the whole scent is just so 'flat' it doesn't remind me of a roiling ocean but instead stagnant water. I accidentally ordered 2 vials of Sandflowers, too.. whoops!

  30. #90
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by everso View Post
    confirming these dates with Creed is USELESS...not credible at all IMO. They can come up with things out of their arse for all we know!

    why are you so hell bent on singling out this one brand man...it's no longer funny anymore and it doesnt make you look cool. you are taking this discussion to the utmost depth of negativity with no value added whatsoever. your response basically comprises of two notes - Urine and Arse. common man...

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by jenson View Post
    why are you so hell bent on singling out this one brand man...it's no longer funny anymore and it doesnt make you look cool. you are taking this discussion to the utmost depth of negativity with no value added whatsoever. your response basically comprises of two notes - Urine and Arse. common man...
    au contraire...my defensive friend....i feel you have become the 'negative' one.

    i am simply offering the TRUTH. none of the information offered by Creed can be confirmed anywhere...that is the truth. you wanna prove me wrong, DO IT.

  32. #92
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    Sandflowers - it doesn't remind me of a roiling ocean but instead stagnant water. I accidentally ordered 2 vials of Sandflowers, too.. whoops!
    you hit the nail on head man! tht's the image it evokes. btw, Sandflowers smell very ordinary close to skin....the magic is in its sillage...it'll grow on you with each wear, good you have 2 samples! give it a full wear! im sure it'll pleasantly suprise you...

  33. #93
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by everso View Post
    you wanna prove me wrong, DO IT.
    i definitely have better things to do. i might as well use that time to test my Brut splash on....

  34. #94

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Boys! Boys!

    Stop the Violence! We're all in the same gang!

  35. #95
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by T. Rex, Esq. View Post
    Boys! Boys!

    Stop the Violence! We're all in the same gang!
    i quit. thnx T.rex.

  36. #96
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    I liked the discussion on Rolexes ..

    BTW, the end of the world is near...(former) Ellena fanboy Chandler Burr gives Creeds Virgin Island Water 4 stars in his latest column (this following Malle praising Love in Black in Allure Sept '08 issue )..

    http://www.nytimes.com/indexes/2008/...geName=17scent&
    Last edited by zztopp; 15th August 2008 at 03:41 AM.
    -

  37. #97

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    << Olivier Creed has traveled the world [1] collecting rare coconuts, limes and bottles of rum to compose the bathtub-sized cocktail he drank before he decided to release something this close to Bath & Body Works Coconut Lime Verbena at eleven times the price. - pina colada * * >>

    tongue- fu
    (better known as Tania Sanchez
    in: Perfumes The Guide)

    [1]: "Virgin Island Water is an exotic blend of Lime from Jamaica, white Bergamot and Mandarin from Sicily with Herbaceous notes, Ylang Ylang and Jasmine from India on a base of Musk from Tonkin,Tropical woods, Coconut and Tiare Flower." - Source: creedfragances.co.uk
    Last edited by narcus; 15th August 2008 at 05:49 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  38. #98
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    "Olivier Creed has traveled the world collecting rare coconuts, limes and bottles of rum to compose the bathtub-sized cocktail he drank before before he decided to release something this close to Bath & Body Works Coconut Lime Verbena at eleven times the price. - pina colada "

    tongue- fu ,
    (better known as Tania Sanchez in Perfumes The Guide)
    I will take Burrs review because its less susceptible to those times of the month ..
    -

  39. #99
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    I liked the discussion on Rolexes ..

    BTW, the end of the world is near...(former) Ellena fanboy Chandler Burr gives Creeds Virgin Island Water 4 stars in his latest column (this following Malle praising Love in Black in Allure Sept '08 issue )..

    http://www.nytimes.com/indexes/2008/...geName=17scent&
    Thanks for the link. You know, I keep teetering on bottling on VIW. It may just happen. I agree with TS that it's just a bit ordinary - like my favorite sunscreen - but I also agree with Burr that it's good at what it does. In the end, I think this is one more time where the text of the Turin/Sanchez review is something I agree with, but the stars I do not.

    I wonder if Burr has reviewed Bath & Body Works Coconut Lime Verbena. It would be interesting to see if that got 4 stars, too.

    Whoops. All this civilized Creed talk has to be w-a-a-a-y OT. Choc! Scandale! What will we do?
    * * * *

  40. #100

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Content Removed By Moderator Request.
    Last edited by T. Rex, Esq.; 15th August 2008 at 06:40 AM.

  41. #101

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    I'm loving this thread a LOT


    PVC and Leather. A Chain and a feather




  42. #102
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by T. Rex, Esq. View Post
    Okay, by calling Tania Sanchez "Tongue Fu" because she's Asian and implying that her period or "times of the month" has to do with her reviews is:

    a. Racist.

    and

    b. Sexist.

    [DustB or Chris here. I've removed content here.]
    Gents we can all use the personal message feature to pass messages and questions about taste and choices of words/concepts. The public boards aren't the place for racist or sexist associations, assignations, or suggestions, naturally. Neither are the public boards the place for other fowl language. On the boards here we can fix things but it isn't a place for fights or flames.
    Thank you all, again,
    --Chris
    Last edited by DustB; 15th August 2008 at 06:55 AM.
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  43. #103
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Oh, and also, T.Rex, this doesn't have anything to do with dismissal of members or their thoughts for perceived association with particular manufacturers (TM in superscript here). Anyone can say hey, what's written is offensive, and that usually is enough.
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  44. #104

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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    luca turin | November 10, 2005, 6:17 : << Tania, if your fists are as fast as your tongue and typing fingers, then the Dragon is definitely back :-) >>

    Tania Sanchez | November 10, 2005, 6:50 : << :D When I talk too much in class, my teacher says, "You need to work on kung fu, not tongue fu." >>

    (Source: Luca Turin blog)
    Last edited by narcus; 15th August 2008 at 06:33 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  45. #105

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    luca turin | November 10, 2005, 6:17 : << Tania, if your fists are as fast as your tongue and typing fingers, then the Dragon is definitely back :-) >>

    Tania Sanchez | November 10, 2005, 6:50 : << :D When I talk too much in class, my teacher says, "You need to work on kung fu, not tongue fu." >>

    (Source: Luca Turin blog)
    I stand corrected. I misread your intentions and I apologize.

  46. #106

    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by DustB View Post
    Oh, and also, T.Rex, this doesn't have anything to do with dismissal of members or their thoughts for perceived association with particular manufacturers (TM in superscript here). Anyone can say hey, what's written is offensive, and that usually is enough.
    Then why are Creed fanatics the only people here who go after critics personally for not liking their Precious Darlings? You don't see Mr. Guerlain freaking out and accusing Luca Turin of being a fraud because he gave several of the Guerlains two or fewer stars. Several of my favorites took a beating from Turin and Sanchez and Burr, too. That doesn't mean I think they're bad, stupid, dishonest people, a logical leap that seems to consistently evade Emmanuel's disciples. (Along with spell check and the proper use of homonyms.)

  47. #107
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    Default Re: Creed's claim of royalty and use of naturals (Turin content)

    Quote Originally Posted by T. Rex, Esq. View Post
    Then why are Creed fanatics the only people here who go after critics personally for not liking their Precious Darlings? You don't see Mr. Guerlain freaking out and accusing Luca Turin of being a fraud because he gave several of the Guerlains two or fewer stars. Several of my favorites took a beating from Turin and Sanchez and Burr, too. That doesn't mean I think they're bad, stupid, dishonest people, a logical leap that seems to consistently evade Emmanuel's disciples. (Along with spell check and the proper use of homonyms.)
    Gotcha. Score 50 for T.Rex! Whoa, I'm persuaded. Write me down as a follower. I don't know why or how I could have thought otherwise.

    I misspell many words. I write run-on sentences. I put in too many commas or not enough. I have to look up words. I make plenty of mistakes as I try to communicate. Sometimes I communicate poorly.

    Thank you for removing your content above.

    I think this thread has run its course. Very likely I'll close it. Sorry for all inconvenience everyone.

    PM me if there are things you want me to know or think about regarding my decisions.
    --Chris
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

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