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  1. #1

    Default Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Hi everyone

    Apologies if this has been asked before, but I have only been a member for a week! I have a question from a friend who would like to know which perfume houses are noted for using a high proportion of natural ingredients in their formulations - or more than average, say, if there is an average. She is just beginning to dabble in perfume, and I think would be more comfortable starting out with scents featuring naturals, whereas I don't mind either way myself if something smells good!

    From my fuzzy recall of what I have read here and there, I have the impression that Annick Goutal and Jo Malone would be two such companies, also Aftelier and Rich Hippie, and maybe also Sonoma Scent Studio, Roja Dove, Amouage, or Ava Luxe? I am less sure after the first four I mentioned and any suggestions would be appreciated as I am keen to interest this friend in my new-found passion!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Creed and Parfumerie Generale and Le Labo are three that I know of.


    PVC and Leather. A Chain and a feather




  3. #3

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    If you type in "natural perfumery" in the search box at the top of the page you will get a rather comprehensive list of companies that produce fragrances for your friend to try.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  4. #4

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Thanks to you both for your suggestions. I did do a quick initial google, but didn't recognise the names I was getting back, so I should probably try some different search terms.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Serge Lutens, Parfums d'Empire, and Amouage are good examples (relatively).
    Last edited by scentophile; 25th October 2008 at 07:09 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    As usual basenoters forget their buddy members. I really do not understand why, seeing that I am the only natural perfumer in "the guide" and that I have 3 fragrances with 4 stars.
    Most of the time we do not see what we have just under our eyes.
    Profumo

  7. #7


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    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    The SA at Barney's told me Serge Lutens uses a high % of naturals.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    But are these claims or are they verified facts?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Profumo.it makes exceptional all natural perfumes. He is very passionate about it and his work, like him, is full of strength and integrity.

    http://www.profumo.it/perfume/home_english.htm

    If you order from him, remember to tell him you are a basenoter!
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Thanks, guys - all those great names give me a lot of scope to advise my friend!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    But are these claims or are they verified facts?
    Agreed! I do know Profumo above is 100% natural when he says so but as far as the others...pure speculation. If I were betting, I'd say NONE of the above companies (except Profumo) use a high percentage of natural ingredients no matter what their advertising drivel says. Now that is speculation too but follow Basenotes back a long while and look at Luca Turin's writings and do some healthy research and I think you'll find what you are looking for.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Aftelier and Red Flower are two more "all natural" houses. Of the 3 verified "all natural" ones, Red Flower is the only one I have tried.

    I am pretty sure Miller Harris uses a high percentage of naturals. Regina Harris may also.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Ayala Moriel, Rich Hippie are both natural perfumers. Amouage uses a lot of natural resins like frankincense, rock rose and myrrh; after all the house was created to showcase these materials. Parfumerie Generale's creations are supposedly composed of natural essences, they certainly smell like they could be.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  14. #14

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Quote Originally Posted by evogel View Post
    If I were betting, I'd say NONE of the above companies (except Profumo) use a high percentage of natural ingredients no matter what their advertising drivel says. Now that is speculation too
    I'm no expert but I bet if a product is advertised as having a high percentage of natural ingredients when in fact it doesn't then the company that makes false and deliberately misleading claim could be held liable for misrepresenting their product... and I'm in no doubt that there would be a gaggle of lawyers falling over each other to file suit.
    Last edited by surreality; 18th September 2008 at 05:00 AM.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  15. #15

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Quote Originally Posted by evogel View Post
    Agreed! I do know Profumo above is 100% natural when he says so but as far as the others...pure speculation. If I were betting, I'd say NONE of the above companies (except Profumo) use a high percentage of natural ingredients no matter what their advertising drivel says. Now that is speculation too but follow Basenotes back a long while and look at Luca Turin's writings and do some healthy research and I think you'll find what you are looking for.
    Sorry, but not true. Even though perfumery is an illusionist's game, the nose does not lie in the sense that it can smell quality. As for high percentage of natural ingredients, I speak on perfumery standards. It is all relative too. You have many mainstream formulations with a high percentage of natural ingredients too (but overdosed with cedarwood and citrus oils, which are both cheap).

    - Alex

    Addendum: though a lot of fragrances are colored nowadays, the color of the juice is a good indication of the use of naturals inside.
    Last edited by scentophile; 18th September 2008 at 06:26 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentophile View Post
    the color of the juice is a good indication of the use of naturals inside.
    Please elaborate! Would that be the darker yellow the better?
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Well, it's pretty hard for an all natural frag to turn out clear, as a lot of oils have some color, and just a drop or two of something like linden blossom will turn a mix an orange color (like that of Yatagan, for instance.)

    That being said, darker =/= better, it's only an indication of what might have been used. It is possible for an all natural frag to be clear or light yellow or green or blue or brown or any other color, but none is inheretly 'better' than another. What scentophile is suggesting is that I believe most (all?) of the synthetic chemicals are clear and can be used in far smaller proportions than the naturals due to their concentrated nature, so a clear designer/niche juice is likely to be highly synthetic. You can also look at the packaging and normally any colors used will be listed.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Gosh - this thread has "more legs" than I expected - thanks for introducing further interesting aspects of the debate, guys. A lot of food for thought - and sniffing!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    but I bet if a product is advertised as having a high percentage of natural ingredients when in fact it doesn't then the company that makes false and deliberately misleading claim could be held liable for misrepresenting their product... and I'm in no doubt that there would be a gaggle of lawyers falling over each other to file suit.
    You think so? So tell me, what is the legal definition of "high percentage"? Is 1% a high precentage, how about 20%? What is the legal definition of "natural ingredient"? Does the natural grain alcohol that is used as a solvent count towards the "high percentage of natural ingredients"? I am anxiously awaiting a reply from one of your gaggle of lawyers as I have visions of multimillion dollar lawsuit judgements dancing in my head.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    I heard from Dane (of peredepierre.com) that Ormonde Jayne uses some interesting natural ingredients like violet absolut (rare) and in the case of Ta'if, some (inhumanely procured?) natural civet.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Good question for us to discuss. The use of "natural ingredients" produces a range of opinions. Your question asked about fragrance houses (the biggies).
    Often small, niche, or artisan perfumers will have as their point of distinction their use of natural ingredients.
    May I draw to your attention to Ayala Moriel perfumes? I've been to her studio in Vancouver a couple of times. She has shown me the infusions she works on, using raw materials. Her scents are subtle and different from a lot of the mass-produced products out there.
    She has a good website, definitely worth a look-see.
    odysseusm

    "The force that through the green fuse drives the flower // drives my green age..." Dylan Thomas

  22. #22

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Also, almost invariably more naturals = less longevity. Longevity of the scent itself can be extended by going up to 20-30% EDP/Parfum levels, but even so, the duration of fleeting notes will remain fleeting - it's just that their sillage may be intense for the brief period they last. Naturals tend to have high sillage (again, due to the high concentration of oils) for the first hour or so, and then calm down and are more of a skin scent.

    Those powerhouse EdTs that last all day? You can't get that with naturals. Well, sure some naturals could be used to round off an accord or add some depth, but they're predominantly synthetic, guaranteed.
    ***For sale:

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    and more!
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  23. #23

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    Also, almost invariably more naturals = less longevity. Longevity of the scent itself can be extended by going up to 20-30% EDP/Parfum levels, but even so, the duration of fleeting notes will remain fleeting - it's just that their sillage may be intense for the brief period they last. Naturals tend to have high sillage (again, due to the high concentration of oils) for the first hour or so, and then calm down and are more of a skin scent.

    Those powerhouse EdTs that last all day? You can't get that with naturals. Well, sure some naturals could be used to round off an accord or add some depth, but they're predominantly synthetic, guaranteed.
    Sorry sculptureofsoul, I would have to disagree with your statement with more naturals = less longevity. There is a whole spectrum of "longevity" in the naturals world and in the synthetic world. Dimethyl sulfide, a raw material used in creating a lychee effect is gone within first few minutes. You have pink pepper that gives a fiery blast but is short lived, so you're right with this example. Now, if we talk about naturals in the resin and absolute forms, these continue strongly for a long time. Take a formula with angelica (full of musks) wrapped around by woody notes like vetiver, patchouli, sandalwood and sweet, balsamic notes like vanilla absolute, tonka bean absolute, benjoin, labadanum absolute, and so on, you're going to have a formula that's going to last for a really really long time. That's why we have synthetic basenotes and natural basenotes.

    - Alex

  24. #24

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    Well, it's pretty hard for an all natural frag to turn out clear, as a lot of oils have some color, and just a drop or two of something like linden blossom will turn a mix an orange color (like that of Yatagan, for instance.)

    That being said, darker =/= better, it's only an indication of what might have been used. It is possible for an all natural frag to be clear or light yellow or green or blue or brown or any other color, but none is inheretly 'better' than another. What scentophile is suggesting is that I believe most (all?) of the synthetic chemicals are clear and can be used in far smaller proportions than the naturals due to their concentrated nature, so a clear designer/niche juice is likely to be highly synthetic. You can also look at the packaging and normally any colors used will be listed.
    Agreed in the first part. Synthetics chemicals are generally clear (with exceptions) but technically speaking, it has nothing to do with smaller proportions or them being concentrated in nature. Put even a gram of oakmoss, patchouli, etc. in a formula based out of 1000, you got yourself some color. Even citrus oils bring your formula in the yellow, orange direction. A high use of absolutes will bring the color of the solution darker and darker.

    On the other hand, there is a way of molecular distillation that produces less colored naturals, which are used in perfumery to keep the final product as clear as possible.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    I'm no expert but I bet if a product is advertised as having a high percentage of natural ingredients when in fact it doesn't then the company that makes false and deliberately misleading claim could be held liable for misrepresenting their product... and I'm in no doubt that there would be a gaggle of lawyers falling over each other to file suit.
    Good luck trying to prove that .

    Also, what constitutes a "high percentage of natural ingredients"?

    If the average fragrance manufacturer uses the concentration amounts listed below and most companies use 100% synthetics then essentially any companies that uses 1% natural ingredients has a "high percentage of natural ingredients". It is all relative.

    The statement "high percentage of natural ingredients" is IMO a very vague reference created by various marketing machines used to differentiate a product and create the illusion of exclusivity much like "worlds greatest pizza".

    This does not apply to fragrance manufacturers that only use naturals in their fragrances.


    Parfum: also called extrait, is the highest concentration of perfume. A perfume may contain 22-30 percent oils and high grade alcohol, and a slight amount of water. Parfum is the most expensive type of perfume. Any mixture lower in oils is known as an eau.

    Eau de Parfum: is composed of 15-18 percent of essential oils with a slightly weaker alcohol and water.

    Eau de Toilette: also called toilet water, is a much thinner dilution of the same materials, containing approximately only 4-8 percent of essential oils, in an even weaker alcohol and water mixture.

    Eau de Cologne: for men or women, or aftershave, is further diluted, about 3-5 percent of essential oils, in an even still weaker alcohol and water mix.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Jean Paul Guerlain stated that the standard proportion in Guerlains was 80 natural to 20 synthetic. That would seem like a good benchmark. I don't know whether that ratio has been upheld under LVMH leadership and it's obvious that with a raw material crisis such as concerning sandalwood, a perfume like Samsara would either have to be discontinued or reformulated towards a higher percentage of synthetics.

    I do think that the elder niche houses like Creed, L'Artisan, Lutens use noticeably higher amounts of naturals and high-grade semi-synthetics and synthetics in many of their perfumes than typical 90/00s designer frags, which got cheaper & thinner as a result of trying to maintain or increase profit margins while raw material prices exploded. I'm not sure this applies to some of the more recent gimmicky niche outfits which throw sloppily designed trash on the market in chique packaging. In the end only the gas chromatograph can tell for sure.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    Also, almost invariably more naturals = less longevity. Longevity of the scent itself can be extended by going up to 20-30% EDP/Parfum levels, but even so, the duration of fleeting notes will remain fleeting - it's just that their sillage may be intense for the brief period they last. Naturals tend to have high sillage (again, due to the high concentration of oils) for the first hour or so, and then calm down and are more of a skin scent.

    Those powerhouse EdTs that last all day? You can't get that with naturals. Well, sure some naturals could be used to round off an accord or add some depth, but they're predominantly synthetic, guaranteed.
    I tend to agree with this, based on my own experience. I've tested out several of the natural brands -- Ayala Moriel, Rich Hippie, Social Creatures, Claude Andre Hebert, Red Flower -- and the lack of longevity was definitely an issue.

    All of them were very (very!) good, by the way -- expertly blended, terrific materials, well thought out. Ayala Moriel was especially good, which is why it was frustrating that they disappeared off the skin so quickly, especially when you consider their price point (an all-natural ingredients list tends to up the price quite a bit).

    As much as I appreciate the motivation behind all-natural fragrances, I find that I personally enjoy having some synthetic ingredients mixed in (even if they're just fixatives) to provide for greater longevity.

    I have not yet had the pleasure of testing out a Profumo fragrance, so I'll have to provide an opinion on that at a later date.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    The Good Life said: "Jean Paul Guerlain stated that the standard proportion in Guerlains was 80 natural to 20 synthetic."

    I am responsible for the arguably woolly title of this thread, but somewhere at the back of mind I thought there might be an industry average ratio of natural to synthetic, and the Guerlain figure coincides with the one quoted by Chandler Burr in The Perfect Scent (P117 for those who own the book!) He goes on to say that Hermes Eau Orange Verte is 70% natural, which was considered "extraordinarily high" by ther Hermes team, suggesting that anything above 20% natural could be construed as high, certainly 10% over!

    Thanks for all your contributions - I wasn't personally particularly interested in the distinction for my own sake - but now I am curious to test examples from both camps to see if I can detect any differences in quality or longevity.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Quote Originally Posted by VM I hate civet View Post
    The Good Life said: "Jean Paul Guerlain stated that the standard proportion in Guerlains was 80 natural to 20 synthetic."

    I am responsible for the arguably woolly title of this thread, but somewhere at the back of mind I thought there might be an industry average ratio of natural to synthetic, and the Guerlain figure coincides with the one quoted by Chandler Burr in The Perfect Scent (P117 for those who own the book!) He goes on to say that Hermes Eau Orange Verte is 70% natural, which was considered "extraordinarily high" by ther Hermes team, suggesting that anything above 20% natural could be construed as high, certainly 10% over!
    Great example. Yesterday, I wanted to use Eau de Colognes (EOV, Eau Sauvage) as an example which is built on a overdose of top citrus notes. It would be feasible to make an economical formula 50-70 percent natural with just citrus oils. But still nowadays, citrus oils are really expensive as well depending on the qualities.

    Roudnitska once said that fixation has nothing to do with materials being synthetics or natural but the combination of raw materials and the choice of the raw materials (I'm trying to find the source of this quote as I type this message).
    Last edited by scentophile; 19th September 2008 at 06:27 AM.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    I think it is an interesting point you raise about natural ingredients not necessarily equating with greater expense.

    I might refine my earlier post: one could perhaps consider a ratio of 30-40% naturals (if perfumes with such formulae are out there!) as being "higher than the industry average", while 60% + might be seen as "high" in the absolute sense (no pun intended). So I might steer my friend towards the latter category.

    Just noticed my error in the earlier post - Chandler Burr said the industry average ratio was 20% natural to 80% synthetic ie the opposite of the Guerlain standard! In my defence it was late and I had had a couple of glasses of Beaujolais...But it looks as though Guerlain could definitely go on the list as a genuine "high" in that case.
    Last edited by VM I hate civet; 19th September 2008 at 07:19 AM.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Profumo View Post
    As usual basenoters forget their buddy members. I really do not understand why, seeing that I am the only natural perfumer in "the guide" and that I have 3 fragrances with 4 stars.
    Most of the time we do not see what we have just under our eyes.
    Profumo
    Well. I know who I'm not buying perfumes from!

  32. #32

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentophile View Post
    Sorry sculptureofsoul, I would have to disagree with your statement with more naturals = less longevity. There is a whole spectrum of "longevity" in the naturals world and in the synthetic world. Dimethyl sulfide, a raw material used in creating a lychee effect is gone within first few minutes. You have pink pepper that gives a fiery blast but is short lived, so you're right with this example. Now, if we talk about naturals in the resin and absolute forms, these continue strongly for a long time. Take a formula with angelica (full of musks) wrapped around by woody notes like vetiver, patchouli, sandalwood and sweet, balsamic notes like vanilla absolute, tonka bean absolute, benjoin, labadanum absolute, and so on, you're going to have a formula that's going to last for a really really long time. That's why we have synthetic basenotes and natural basenotes.

    - Alex
    Alex, I don't mean to say that naturals can't have good longevity, and there are some that are *extremely* tenacious (tonka bean and oakmoss in particular) - but it's just a given that if you isolate the "primary chemicals" from a scent and have them concentrated at 100% as you do with a synthetic molecule, it will last longer and be stronger than an equivalent quantity of the natural substance which invariably has several (tens, if not hundreds) of other chemicals in its composition that may round out its smell or add that much needed depth and complexity, but don't contribute to the strength or longevity of the 'primary note' of the oil. I'm sure you know that the primary olfactive components of rose oil only make up 1% or less of the oil, despite making up 90% or so of the scent. So, given that, if you have a mix of only those chemicals, concentrated, you'd theoretically have a rose note 100 times stronger than the original, and surely due to quantity of the chemicals alone, it will have greater longevity (or rather, be perceptible for longer.)

    It's hard to get over 6-8 hours of longevity (where it's more than a skin scent at that point) with an EDP (say, 20% dilution) strength all natural perfume that is composed of say, 60% basenotes. Of course you can go even higher with the percentage of basenotes, but then you're stuck with minimal evolution, basenotes overwhelming the top and midnotes, and even less diffusion due to the minimal 'throw' of basenote materials. It's an issue I wrestle with regularly.
    Last edited by SculptureOfSoul; 19th September 2008 at 08:22 AM.
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    and more!
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  33. #33

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Quote Originally Posted by VM I hate civet View Post
    The Good Life said: "Jean Paul Guerlain stated that the standard proportion in Guerlains was 80 natural to 20 synthetic."

    I am responsible for the arguably woolly title of this thread, but somewhere at the back of mind I thought there might be an industry average ratio of natural to synthetic, and the Guerlain figure coincides with the one quoted by Chandler Burr in The Perfect Scent (P117 for those who own the book!) He goes on to say that Hermes Eau Orange Verte is 70% natural, which was considered "extraordinarily high" by ther Hermes team, suggesting that anything above 20% natural could be construed as high, certainly 10% over!

    Thanks for all your contributions - I wasn't personally particularly interested in the distinction for my own sake - but now I am curious to test examples from both camps to see if I can detect any differences in quality or longevity.

    I believe the Guerlain reference has its percentages transposed - I have seen it stated as 20% natural, 80% synthetic. From the formulas I've seen, I'd say even 20% is an unusually high amount of naturals nowadays in mainstream perfumery.

  34. #34

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Aha, then it would be a case of "in vino veritas!"


  35. #35

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    A representative for By Kilian once told me that their fragrances are mostly natural, with a small percentage of synthetics to give it a modern feel. As far as I know she was right - the least I can say about by Kilian is that they smell like good quality ingredients to me.
    Sales thread here

  36. #36

    Default Re: Which perfume houses use a high percentage of naturals?

    Interesting thread, especially about fragrance color.

    I agree with above posters that just saying a fragrance has a "high" percentage is not going to be legally actionable. It's way too vague and general. Only if someone were to say, for instance, that a fragrance had a certain percentage of naturals and it turned out not to be true might there be a false advertising claim.

    Besides the excellent all-naturals mentioned above, I've liked Roxana Illuminated Perfumes (illuminatedperfume.com) and Strange Invisible Perfume. The latter, however, has some challenging fragrances, and they are probably not for newbies like your friend.
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