hear that sound???
That's my knuckles dragging on the ground
I had the wonderful opportunity to accompany my girlfriend to Perfume Posse's Chi-Cocoa Sensation tour here in Chicago this past Saturday. Though I don't need much arm-twisting to go sample frags, I was a bit intimidated at first by all the ladies being one of 3 males in a coven of over 20 ladies. I was pleasantly surprised by the ladies' enthusiasm for frags and got to the opportunity to sample new men's frags as well. One Posse member made the comment that she found the B-notes reviews to be very articulate and informative so pat yourself on the back.
But the question I have is why aren't there more females on Basenotes? When I mentioned that I was a B-notes regular, they seemed to imply that B-notes was for men and that sites like Perfume Posse & Makeup Alley were theirs alone. It's no secret that the ratio of men to women here is around 75%-25% but what makes that so? I mean, it's not like were a bunch of cro-magnum men dragging our knuckles on the ground. Sure, we're knowledgeable & opinionated but threatening to the ladies? I don't get it.
"I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."
Egon Schiele - Self-Potrait
My classics: Dior Homme EdT, YSL Rive Gauche PH, Helmut Lang Cuiron, L'Occitane Neroli (vintage), Davidoff Zino, L'Occitane Eau des Baux
hear that sound???
That's my knuckles dragging on the ground
top ten: L'Air du Desert Marocain, Black Aoud, Le Labo Rose 31, Bois du Portugal, Incense Rose, Millesime Imperial, Czech & Speake no.88, Terre de Hermes, Musc Ravageur, Nasomatto Duro
Best layers: GIT and TdH, GIT and BA
sample wishlist: Roses Musk
I wondered the same thing since I started coming on BN. Maybe potential browsers aren't comfortable becoming regulars or members due to the 4 to 1 ratio.
Before I landed here, I looked around and this was comfortable for me because of the ratio. I assumed I get could better intel on male frags. It only stands to reason.
I'd love to see more female members populate the site. They have a different perspective on scents than I do...that's for sure.
I think that those other sites are probably operated by women, but I'm not sure. They present themselves in a manner more friendly to women. The look, the focus, the attitude of those sites are more feminine in nature, and they focus on feminine products. At least that's how they strike me.
Basenotes is more businesslike, and you have to go down into the menu system to get to the female discussion group, which is only one part of a much larger system. The other sites have an obvious up front appeal towards women, beginning with their home pages, but the more businesslike presentation of Basenotes' doesn't really entice women that way.
The segregation of the Men's and Women's group here has pluses and minuses. Most people think that it's nice for each group to have an area they can call their own, but this tends to limit interaction between the men and women posters, and divides the community. I don't think that the other sites are divided this way, having a central area for everyone.
Perhaps some women BNers could offer some of their thoughts about this. I'd like to hear them.
Last edited by noggs; 19th September 2008 at 12:27 PM.
Basenotes was the first Perfume Forum For Men ever. That has been the key to their permanent success and immense growth! There is really no alternative for men into perfumes. If you look at numbers (of posts, reviews, whatever), being predominantly a male forum is why it's unique among perfume boards. The feminine board was a rather late innovation in the history of this site. The male forum being kicked down to place six on the main menu really does not reflect its special strength .
I am here for three reasons:
- The Male Fragrance Discussion
- A review section where men write honest perfume reviews for other men
- The best directory for discontinued fragrances
I should add that excellent reviews of female perfumes have also been written of course. All other perfume forums of the world are for women primarily. Most of them seem to welcome the presence of men. But not much of a male fragrance discussion takes place over there. I prefer the way things have been arranged here ! And besides: Grant is the coolest of all hosts! :brolly:
Last edited by narcus; 20th September 2008 at 10:18 AM. Reason: grammatical errors
'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.
As Narcus mentioned, when the site launched in 2000, it was launched as a 'men's fragrance site', the female board and the feminine fragrances were added to the directory in 2004. We've now had more time as a male/female site than a male site (by a month or so), though the numbers of women have grown, we are still very male dominated.
People still tend to view the site as a 'men's' site, though, which is a shame.
I'd love to get our female user numbers up to match the men, but short of turning the site pink, and putting flowers everywhere I don't know how best to do that (Grant ducks for cover for making cheap stereotype-based statements...)
I should also add that the female members we do have are extremely loyal and shout about BN as much as poss! Cheers!
I like the focus of Basenotes towards a male oriented board. As Narcus mentioned, nearly all, if not entirely all, the other perfume sites are dominated by women. Even though men do participate on those boards, they are usually in a small minority. There are plenty of perfume sites out there catering to women. It is nice to have one of our own, where we can be ourselves and hang out with our buddies.
I suppose we want to have our cake and eat it, too. We like having our own place but bemoan the fact that there is little participation by women. But the boards on Basenotes are divided by general fragrance category, not by sex of the posters. There's nothing stopping women from posting to the mens' board if they want to comment on mens' fragrances and likewise for us men posting to the womens' board to discuss womens' frags.
I suppose we men must feel a little sorry for the women here, who are so few on their own BN board. We like the site and believe it to be a damn good one. Would we all feel better if the womens' board had participation equal to that of the male board?
We could help ourselves out by being more active on both boards. Men generally don't know that much about womens' frags and vice versa. We could increase our knowledge while building community relations.
One reason that women gravitate to the other websites is the strong, guiding presence of women there, women like Victoria or Marina or Columbina who stamp the board with their personalities. Basenotes doesn't have that Mother/Sister figure, but those other sites are more like personal blogs than true boards like here on Basenotes.
I think the best thing for the womens' board is for the women themselves to actively promote the board and draw in new members. Given the lack of a strong feminine personality guiding the site, and a more serious, more specialized concentration on fragrance rather than on lipstick or eyeliner or other feminine accoutrements, that might prove tough to do. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it's up to the women there to make it a place where other women want to be.
Sorry for hitting on so many different things here. I haven't thought any of this through, just tossing out ideas.
Last edited by noggs; 19th September 2008 at 12:30 PM.
I like the fact that on basenotes people go really deep into how a perfume is made, the industry aspect of it. I don´t want to hear fancy fairytales from marketing guro´s, I don´t want to read reviews from people who are over the moon with how natural a perfume is when, if you get down too it, Annick Goutal is not an all natural perfumer.
I like it that Basenotes is more to the point, more brutally honest. In my day to day life I work with all most all men and most of my friends are men, because when I ask for an opinion I want to get an honest opinion and not the very female thing of still answering what you think people want to hear.
The female side of this forum is still honest, outspoken, and we are ourselves, even if it means our interest in perfume is the only feminine thing about us. We do talk about things outside of perfume and if you read it often you do get a feeling for the person behind the perfumes, but it doesn´t have this ´Im better than thou´ tone, which I do find elsewhere.
MUA is also not that friendly in a way, people are always looking for a bargain or trying to feel better about themselves by what they wear and own in terms of perfume and cosmetics. Here, it´s the opposite, we love perfume and we like people who also love perfume and we want to help them find more perfumes and we like to surprise one another without expecting the world in return.
Basenotes.com is about perfume, for perfume and honesty. People aren´t afraid to say things that might not be popular opinion and I don´t think people hold back or try to fit in better.
I <3 basenotes
But once you get locked into a serious perfume collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.
I think I had been on Basenotes a year before I heard someone comment that it had started out as a men's fragrance board only, and this surprised me. True, the men's forum has a lot more participation, but I've never felt this was an overtly male-dominated site. I have always felt that it is a gathering place for fragrance-lovers first & foremost. I googled a fragrance, found a Basenotes review, and soon discovered a community where people were talking about it and hundreds of other scents. What is there to feel threatened by?
And I beg to differ with noggs about the lack of strong, guiding women here. There are 4 or 5 mother/sister figures who have taken me under their wing, more who have done the same for others, and several who have stamped our board with their larger-than-life personalities, who offer a stunning wealth of perfume knowledge, guidance, and support, and who work very hard to encourage discussion and development.
This is the first fragrance site I became involved in, and it has set a standard that other sites haven't met. (For one, the discussion board layout is 100x more user-friendly than That One Site!)
Sniff and let sniff.
I am a lady, or like to think so!
I was drawn to Basenotes more than any other forum for the fact that it does have more of a male participation than the others. There seems to be more of a focus on fragrance and the prescence/impact it has on our lives, and the knowledge base seems to be more serious. And no, the rowdiness or bawdiness or whatever doesn't bother me a bit - it always makes me smile. The demographic overall seems to be more varied as well - not just by gender, but age, nationality, etc. There's a fluffy element to some of the other forums that always made my eyes roll.
Just my two cents, however devalued they may be by now.
I like the ratio of men to women here, which is not a surprise considering that most of my friends in person are men. I like that this web site, unlike other perfume sites, really has nothing to do with makeup. I love makeup, but it has nothing to do with perfume. I like that it's pretty intellectual here. I like the format, which highlights the fact that it's a place for serious discussion.
This is a good thread. I also like that there's no elitist attitudes here. The people here that are knowledgeable and have a good nose always offer their opinions or insight without any haughtiness.
Take foetidus for example. To me, this member gives BOMB reviews and as excellent as his descriptive language is, his speech is not the least bit heavy-handed. The man simply has grace in his tongue and is friendly when offering his view on a fragrance.
There are others as well who's reviews I give regard when I'm researching something. I am a member here because of this.
I can see how BN can be intimidating to an average woman.
But why would you want average women here?
Historically, though - I hope Grant forgives me for saying this - BN has not been too welcoming to female posters. It's much different now than what I remember even not that long ago - much more female posters.
Doesn't bother me, but woment tend to be more sensitive as a rule, and some of you Gents react rather...um...breastbone-beating-gorilla-man-like.
No offence, please.
I'm not a huge fan of the separation of the fragrance forums, as I find that men often offer a totally different perspective (and, hence, historically I post on the Male Forums more, which, in turn, might bother some of the male participants).
On the other hand, I do understand that men may want to have a place where they can discuss things like fragrances (in General Public Opinion - more of a girly thing; don't ask me why) in a masculine environment without all that girly giggling and pink hearts and sparkles all over the place.
Last edited by FroFro; 19th September 2008 at 07:47 PM.
Veni, Vidi, Visa.
I can't remember how I found Basenotes - Googling for frag info/reviews, I suspect. I like it very much here - as others have noted there's a level of seriousness here (seriousness about scent, not seriousness of tone) that I appreciate.
...even if I do have to go wash off all the gross boy cooties after every visit!
"It's now very common to hear people say "I'm rather offended by that." As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well so fucking what." - Stephen Fry
I think there should be one SotD thread for both men and women.
I'm very interested in learning about fragrances marketed to women, and the mini-reviews people sometimes post with their SotD posts can intrigue me to try a perfume, or at least know it exists and have someone's thoughts about it. I read the SotD thread on the FFD forum sometimes, and I kind of like it more than here. There's a lot of mini conversations and people go on about the weather and how it suits their scents, how their day went, etc.. I like that.
Looking for a sample of Gucci Envy Me.
I love to visit the Female Forum and would loved to have attended the Posse roundup. I find Basenotes Female Fragrance Forum posts for the most part to be friendly, informative and very open to male 'visitors' such as myself (as the Male Fragrance Forum is to female 'visitors' I might add). I also find their discussions on that female Board seem to be much like discussions I have overheard between women in most any group: very solicitous of each other's health, welfare and life events in addition to specifics about who is wearing what fragrance. The Male Forum, on the other hand, seems a bit more down-to-business about fragrance discussions as a rule and testosterone does seem to shake it's fist on occasion. Both Boards are lively, interesting and well worthy of daily visits.
Last edited by kbe; 19th September 2008 at 08:05 PM.
"Are you a god?"
"Are you a wizard?"
"Are you a man?"
"Then what are you?"
"I am awake.."
Here's a case study in this interesting issue.
I posted a thread here, "Favorite Character's Scent" with the intent that people talk about what they imagined a famous historical or literary character would have worn. As of this afternoon, 375 visits to the site, some lively discussion.
I posted a companion thread on the Women's forum. 179 visits, but so far I'm the only contributor.
The numbers indicate something, and I think the responses and non-responses indicate something.
Any thoughts on this?
"The force that through the green fuse drives the flower // drives my green age..." Dylan Thomas
Speaking seriously (testosterone kicking in, maybe?), I think a little discussion about the whole experience you had with your fragrance of the day is nice too, and makes things more interesting to the readers. The effect that your fragrance had on your day and your day on your fragrance.
Looking for a sample of Gucci Envy Me.
Last edited by TwoRoads; 19th September 2008 at 09:18 PM.
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and sorry I could not travel both and be one traveler, long I stood and looked down one as far as I could to where it bent in the undergrowth; Then took the other, as just as fair, ...... I shall be telling this with a sigh somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost
BN is where it all began for me. I too was researching a fragrance, landed in the directory, and here I am still! I checked out The Other Place and find navigation here to be so much easier. It also seems more conversational. I wouldn't say the graphics are more "business-like;" rather, more understated and less elaborate. Nothing wrong with that!
I respect that BN is the only forum that gives men a place to talk about men's fragrances. I think it is important that this is preserved. I occasionally post to the men's side, and I know there are fellows who drop in on the ladies to ask questions or offer opinions. This is a good thing and serves fine to achieve integration when needed. Plus, we have the Industry, Off Topic, and other forums for getting friendly.
And I'd like to second what Tang said about the presence of "strong, guiding women" on Basenotes. I think she's absolutely right.
Last edited by Heartwood; 19th September 2008 at 11:46 PM.
Eddie: Sweetie, what are you drinking?
Patsy: Oh, this? Chanel No. 5.
-- Absolutely Fabulous
I can only speak for myself, and I don't consider myself an "average" woman or blogger or whatever (what is an "average" woman, btw?). The main thing that has always bothered me here (and still does) is the male/female segregation. I totally get the historical reasons behind it, but I wish to see these walls disappear. I wear and own more unisex and male frags than feminine ones, and being equipped with a husband, I have an opinion on many masculine scents. Yet, I don't feel 100% welcome on the male side of this site (even though things have greatly improved in recent months).
I like basenotes for the depth of the discussion and the non-cliquey atmosphere (unlike MUA, where I can't bring myself to post, both because of the dynamics and a general air of hostility towards most bloggers), and I think it's a brilliant resource, so I'm here to stay. I just wish not to feel like I'm expected to stay in the pink zone.
First of all I would like a general non-gendered area for fragrance talk... I feel the double posting between male and female frags to be repetitive. I mean maybe keep the male and female areas for SUPER SPECIFIC outlet for gendered talk on frags but I'm gonna hop over to the camp of people who don't give a damn how fragrances are gender marketed.
I also believe due to the differences that some have posted about basenotes compared to other blog sites, it requires most posters (women or men) to really have a more assertive and in some ways independent attitude towards community. What I think is that the other sites with leading single personalities or cliques make it easier for growing casual readers and followers... but I prefer what I witness on the basenotes community as being a more egalitarian endeavor. As a result I feel this inspires many of us (who keep returning) to become more dedicated to the subject of perfumery and love of perfumes and act with a spirit of comradeship ... in our pursuit of consuming fragrances.
Second, I really really love the personal wardrobe portion of basenotes, it's so very fun.
AmomiErotici - Thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it.
Last edited by foetidus; 20th September 2008 at 01:06 AM.
I've been a member of basenotes since October 2005 but I had been reading the board for quite a while before that. The site had a reputation for being THE place to go if you wanted to learn about base notes. Get it...basenotes for base notes. Aromatherapy had helped me deal with migraines. During that time, I discovered that I dearly love(d) those long, lingering notes & I wanted to learn more about them. So here I am & here I remain.
To this day, I participate more on the men's board than I do on the women's. However, I do post on the women's board. Perhaps it's just a habit that I read the "new posts" first, so I post more there. Most of the new posts are on the men's forum.
I enjoy the "company" on basenotes. If one of the members is habitually snarky or rude, I just "ignore" their posts. I've only had to do this to two people & I think they've both been banned since.
Overall, basenotes has informed members, doesn't tolerate a lot of BS, is really & truly moderated, has talented writers, both as members & as contributors. I enjoy the generosity I've shared here. Participation on other boards is limited, compared to the full range of experiences available here. There's just so much to do, to read, to enjoy. It's a veritable feast of all things fragrance!
Besides...I found fellow barbeque lovers here, so I'm NOT leaving, no way, no how! Does anyone think Christopher Brosius will make a barbeque scent? Just askin'
Last edited by RHM; 20th September 2008 at 01:43 AM.
We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men. ~Herman Melville