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  1. #1

    Default Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    According to Mr. Lutens' PR department:

    http://www.peredepierre.com/2008/10/...s-comment.html

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Well, it may explain why Christopher Sheldrake is now working for Chanel as Jacques Polges' "deputy perfumer".

    See the article about the launch of the new Chanel Olfactive Bar at SAKs NYC. Christopher Sheldrake designed it. I experienced it last Sunday at the Chanel Master class. Incredible!
    "You smell like sunshine and happiness."

  3. #3
    zztopp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Wow, Lutens puts Sheldrake down as a "technician" and not a proper perfumer ?
    -

  4. #4
    If not now, when?

    mikeperez23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Lutens is such a diva. Sheldrake has put Serge Lutens where it is. If I was Sheldrake, I'd be pissed.

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    Lutens is such a diva. Sheldrake has put Serge Lutens where it is. If I was Sheldrake, I'd be pissed.
    Seriously... he's made an identity that Lutens would have never been able to achieve without him. It sounds much like a hurt/jealous ex that is trying to trivialize the departure of their dear beloved. Aww, poor Sergey. I might have to get Coromandel instead of Borneo 1834 now! Pshaw!
    Last edited by jrd4t; 3rd October 2008 at 05:22 PM.
    I'm a colognosaurus. Rawr!
    Currently wearing: China White by Nasomatto

  6. #6

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Okay, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't overreacting...why would they bother with my piddly little blog? Nowsmellthis and other blogs with my higher reader numbers than mine say the exact same things I do.

  7. #7
    If not now, when?

    mikeperez23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by sofresh View Post
    Okay, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't overreacting...why would they bother with my piddly little blog? Nowsmellthis and other blogs with my higher reader numbers than mine say the exact same things I do.
    Maybe because if they left the same type of message in the comments of a larger, more established blog - lot's more SL fans (and buyers) would hear about it.

    I say, take your 'comments' and send an email or letter to Serge Lutens main office. An official inquiry into the comments - and see what they say. Ask them if it was them, that left the comment.
    Last edited by mikeperez23; 3rd October 2008 at 12:50 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    If you wanted to politely point something out, wouldn't you send an email? Why would they leave a comment?? I find it all very strange. Maybe it was someone else speaking unjustly on their behalf.

    I don't know what it is about my writing, but this is the 2nd time I've offended a perfumer/perfume company. Mathilde Laurent wasn't impressed with my review of Roadster. I thought I was pretty friendly...guess not.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Well, nothing new with that.
    Serge Lutens IS the creator of the whole idea, and it`s evident by name of brand. He created names, bottles, boxes, ideas of the scents, poetical legends and descriptions, pictures etc... He is executive and creative director for the brand. He is SL-person on duty. He is SL himself who is on charge for the budget given by Shiseido.
    The line would not exist without him. The whole idea of selective (niche) luxury was began with SL line. Don`t forget about it.

    As director, he choose the perfumer - it happens to be Christopher Sheldrake from Firmenich company.
    Well, SL could choose any other perfumer. He has a right to choose. And he`s chosen other perfumers too (for Iris Silver Mist, remember?)
    So - that`s the main message of SL. And he made that statement different ways not once. And if you could recall - there were some difficulties to find out who was the perfumer for SL perfumes in the beginning.

    It`s evident that creative director has more responsibility with perfume creation than perfumer. Good execution of excellent idea or good formula that fits to idea - what is more crucial?
    Creative director approves the formula and he is responsible for the budget - to give or not to give?
    What is going to be the perfume hit and what is not good enough to be a hit?

    I`m not going to say that Christopher is a `mere technician`. He is The brilliant perfumer (only brilliant would be taken by Chanel). And Serge is The great creator.
    I believe that they are not pulling the Blanket of Glory when they meet each other (for work or for a lunch). I suppose they could be friends rather than concurents.
    I believe that they are happy with their fruitful collaboration. I believe that they are intelligent thinking people - they give each other enough in sense of prosperity and creativity.
    And I want to believe that this thread and other posts was not done for breaking their creative unity.

    And even now when bloggers hohums the latest SL creations (well, the latest Export line has less excited reviews), I believe that SL line will shake the perfumer world again.
    By the way, Serge Noire is a brilliant thing that gives me that belief.

    Nothing personal, guys. Just my opinion.
    I`m really interested in great creative people that are responsible of Great Perfumer Successes.
    In a world of Perfume Blandness and Depression - we need more of them instead of Nestle, PG and LVMH marketologists. And I want to know more names of Creative Directors who are The real CDs.
    Vetiver The Great!!!

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by jrd4t View Post
    Seriously... he's made an identity that Lutens would have never been able to achieve without him. It sounds much like a hurt/jealous ex that is trying to trivialize the departure of their dear beloved. Aww, poor Sergey. I might have to get Coromandel instead of Borneo 1834 now! Pshaw!
    Coromandel is better anyway (and available easily in the US)

  11. #11

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by moon_fish View Post
    Well, nothing new with that.
    Serge Lutens IS the creator of the whole idea, and it`s evident by name of brand. He created names, bottles, boxes, ideas of the scents, poetical legends and descriptions, pictures etc... He is executive and creative director for the brand. He is SL-person on duty. He is SL himself who is on charge for the budget given by Shiseido.
    The line would not exist without him. The whole idea of selective (niche) luxury was began with SL line. Don`t forget about it.

    As director, he choose the perfumer - it happens to be Christopher Sheldrake from Firmenich company.
    Well, SL could choose any other perfumer. He has a right to choose. And he`s chosen other perfumers too (for Iris Silver Mist, remember?)
    So - that`s the main message of SL. And he made that statement different ways not once. And if you could recall - there were some difficulties to find out who was the perfumer for SL perfumes in the beginning.

    It`s evident that creative director has more responsibility with perfume creation than perfumer. Good execution of excellent idea or good formula that fits to idea - what is more crucial?
    Creative director approves the formula and he is responsible for the budget - to give or not to give?
    What is going to be the perfume hit and what is not good enough to be a hit?

    I`m not going to say that Christopher is a `mere technician`. He is The brilliant perfumer (only brilliant would be taken by Chanel). And Serge is The great creator.
    I believe that they are not pulling the Blanket of Glory when they meet each other (for work or for a lunch). I suppose they could be friends rather than concurents.
    I believe that they are happy with their fruitful collaboration. I believe that they are intelligent thinking people - they give each other enough in sense of prosperity and creativity.
    And I want to believe that this thread and other posts was not done for breaking their creative unity.

    And even now when bloggers hohums the latest SL creations (well, the latest Export line has less excited reviews), I believe that SL line will shake the perfumer world again.
    By the way, Serge Noire is a brilliant thing that gives me that belief.

    Nothing personal, guys. Just my opinion.
    I`m really interested in great creative people that are responsible of Great Perfumer Successes.
    In a world of Perfume Blandness and Depression - we need more of them instead of Nestle, PG and LVMH marketologists. And I want to know more names of Creative Directors who are The real CDs.
    I don't really understand your post. No one forgets or denies Mr. Lutens' involvement in his perfumes...his name is on every bottle. If you want to pay hommage to the "creative directors" of the world, you're free to do that, but I plan on including the name of the actual perfumer whenever I can.

  12. #12
    arwen_elf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by sofresh View Post
    Okay, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't overreacting...why would they bother with my piddly little blog? Nowsmellthis and other blogs with my higher reader numbers than mine say the exact same things I do.
    I like your "little" blog and your writing style.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by arwen_elf View Post
    I like your "little" blog and your writing style.
    Aw, thanks.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    the ilnk is no longer working.

  15. #15
    sables's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by sofresh View Post
    I thought I was pretty friendly...guess not.
    From your blog:

    "Then came the nasty, cheap synthetic amber. Who allows this stuff to be on the list of acceptable ingredients? It should added to some sort of toxic blacklist. Strong, sharp tuna fish sandwich accords have ruined many potentially great men's scents, and Cartier managed to slip it in thinking no one would notice.

    I'm not a fan of testing scents on paper, but it honestly is worth it for the first 30-45 minutes. Just make sure you're near an open fire for the ending."


    Friendly??

  16. #16

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    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    <<Daltroff was a perfumer, Lutens is not, someone had to translate his vision into
    fragrances.
    The Aaron to Lutens’ Moses is Chris Sheldrake of Quest International,
    probably the most skilled natural-products perfumer around. What have they created ?
    Simply put, a new style of perfumery....
    >>
    (Luca Turin 2005) .

    I think it's worth your time reading the whole essay in NZZ from April 05, called 'Dream Team'. LT wrote more about them later and some of it is included in his own reviews of Lutens perfumes. Some of you will probably remember Turin telling the sad story of Lutens' first, Nombre Noir and the perfumer who was involved in its execution. Sheldrake has been luckier than most perfumers working for one or the other industrial perfume producers of the world: he managed to step into th limelight while most professional perfumers work as employees and remain unnamed during their lifetime.

    <<Serge Noire is a brilliant thing...>> I think so, too, moon fish! And I hesitate to buy it for budget reasons only. At least I want to know what Borneo 1834 smells first. This isn't available as the Christmas special 2008 outside Paris yet. I was in France earlier this week.
    Last edited by narcus; 6th October 2008 at 06:55 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by sables View Post
    From your blog:

    "Then came the nasty, cheap synthetic amber. Who allows this stuff to be on the list of acceptable ingredients? It should added to some sort of toxic blacklist. Strong, sharp tuna fish sandwich accords have ruined many potentially great men's scents, and Cartier managed to slip it in thinking no one would notice.

    I'm not a fan of testing scents on paper, but it honestly is worth it for the first 30-45 minutes. Just make sure you're near an open fire for the ending."


    Friendly??
    Okay, not totally friendly, but out of the three stages of the perfume, I didn't like one...the rest was quoted as being very impressive.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by perfumeboss View Post
    the ilnk is no longer working.
    Works for me? You can always just go to the mainpage and scroll down if it doesn't for you though.

  19. #19
    zztopp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    It just hit me... Sheldrake is indeed a mere technician at Palais Royale, the nose behind all Lutens is actually Pierre Bourdon ..
    -

  20. #20

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    It just hit me... Sheldrake is indeed a mere technician at Palais Royale, the nose behind all Lutens is actually Pierre Bourdon ..
    Interesting. I also have a theory that it might be Jessica Simpson.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by sofresh View Post
    If you wanted to politely point something out, wouldn't you send an email? Why would they leave a comment?? I find it all very strange. Maybe it was someone else speaking unjustly on their behalf.

    I don't know what it is about my writing, but this is the 2nd time I've offended a perfumer/perfume company. Mathilde Laurent wasn't impressed with my review of Roadster. I thought I was pretty friendly...guess not.
    Welcome to the club
    I got a couple of scathing but pretty funny emails from Yosh Han, and then there was the Bond kerfuffle...

    I always raise an eyebrow when a company uses the comment section instead of sending an email. It's a lot less professional and I'd much rather know for certain the name and title of the person communicating with me. While I can and do track the IP numbers and usually know if/when it comes from an actual company or a PR firm, there's always the possibility of a prank or a troll. That's why an official email is always better.

    As for the subject at hand, I'm a huge fan of Mr. Lutens and his vision, but this comment is making me uneasy. Can you imagine Fredric Malle calling Maurice Roucel or Dominique Ropion a technician (JC Ellena is a different story ) ?
    Currently wearing: Lyric Man by Amouage

  22. #22

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    So what was mr.Shekdrake's role at Serge Lutens parfumerie?
    I always associated my love for SL perfumes with Christopher .
    About 70% to SL and 30% to CS.
    I am shocked at the technician comment. Perhaps technician in French is more than what it is in English? Even then...
    Did Christopher upset Serge? Take too much credit for a SL perfume?
    There's always two sides to an issue.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    On the whole, if you approach SL as you would an art studio, then it isn't surprising and I don't see what the fuss is about.

    People idolize Rembrandt or Ingres, and yet they forget, or don't realize, that the Masters didn't do half the work themselves. If Rembrandt put only finishing touches on some of the paintings that left his studio, why bother calling them "Rembrandts"? Because they fulfilled his artistic vision - and the people doing the bulk of the work were working to fulfill that vision.

    The studio set-up is effective, efficient, and mutually beneficial. If the people that work under an artist shine in their own right and gain recognition, then that's a wonderful thing. But credit ultimately belongs to the artist overseeing the studio. Mentioning the names of those that help you achieve your vision is a generous gesture.

    Granted, in this instance it would have been even more generous if the wording from PR had been more diplomatic...
    Anakin: What was that all about?
    Obi-Wan: Well, R2 has been...
    Anakin: No loose wire jokes.
    Obi-Wan: Did I say anything?
    Anakin: He's trying.
    Obi-Wan: I didn't say anything!

    -ROTS


  24. #24

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bon Vivant View Post
    On the whole, if you approach SL as you would an art studio, then it isn't surprising and I don't see what the fuss is about.

    People idolize Rembrandt or Ingres, and yet they forget, or don't realize, that the Masters didn't do half the work themselves. If Rembrandt put only finishing touches on some of the paintings that left his studio, why bother calling them "Rembrandts"? Because they fulfilled his artistic vision - and the people doing the bulk of the work were working to fulfill that vision.

    The studio set-up is effective, efficient, and mutually beneficial. If the people that work under an artist shine in their own right and gain recognition, then that's a wonderful thing. But credit ultimately belongs to the artist overseeing the studio. Mentioning the names of those that help you achieve your vision is a generous gesture.

    Granted, in this instance it would have been even more generous if the wording from PR had been more diplomatic...
    A similar analogy would be a restaurant where the master chef creates the menu and oversees it as his cooks go about compiling it and him (chef) assisting where necessary to achieve the (desired) end product.
    Last edited by hedonist222; 20th March 2011 at 03:02 PM.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    We have seen examples of Sheldrake's work outside the SL line and Serge Luten's guidance so everyone can judge for themselves whether the SL style ows more to Serge Lutens vision or to Christopher Sheldrake's skills. I don't think anyone could have mistaken Coromandel for an SL prfume, could they?
    Now blogging about Christos for Men by Christopher Chronis http://wp.me/13WRd

    Vintage Jacomo Eau Cendree available for sale

  26. #26

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Chris Sheldrake is not the perfumer at Serge Lutens , who cares ................ really , what does it matter ?

    I thought it was a given that people knew that he often gave himself credit where credit wasnt due ...

  27. #27

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by Pour_Monsieur[/quote

    I thought it was a given that people knew that he often gave himself credit where credit wasnt due ...
    Who? Lutens or Sheldrake?

  28. #28

    Default Re: Christopher Sheldrake is not the "perfumer" for Serge Lutens

    Quote Originally Posted by Pour_Monsieur[/quote

    I thought it was a given that people knew that he often gave himself credit where credit wasnt due ...
    Who? Lutens or Sheldrake?




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