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  1. #1

    Exclamation "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    http://www.wholesale-essentialoils.c...eabsolutes.asp

    Look at these prices.

    http://www.wholesale-essentialoils.c...ails.asp?id=50
    $40 for 25 ml of fragipani absolute.

    http://www.wholesale-essentialoils.c...ails.asp?id=55
    $41.25 for 25 ml of osmanthus absolute.

    http://www.wholesale-essentialoils.c...ails.asp?id=62
    $15 for 50 ml of narcissus absolute

    Narcissus absolute for example normally sells for around $500 per ounce wholesale.

    I figured these have to be adulterated, but I e-mailed them and they assured me they are not.

    How we manage affordable products?

    • We spent our plenty of time to locate the real and better source of particular raw material.
    • We are very much concern with quality and economic pricing. We have no obligation of Duties, Taxes and other government rules and regulations. So we thankful for our government for giving us a room to work in full swing.
    • The labor cost is lowest in India; Transportation and Local Service taxes are exempted over here. International shipping is also very economic from India to Rest of the world. Starts from $ 15 USD through Express Courier like FedEx, DHL, or UPS.
    • We believe in selling good products instead of making good infrastructure and selling wrong products.
    Has anyone had any dealings or done any business with them?
    Last edited by Neurotic Scientist; 24th November 2008 at 04:30 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Wow that is cheap!!! I might place a small order soon, see how it goes... Cos they use paypal so you can get a refund through them if it doesn't work?

  3. #3

    Post Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    I placed an order yesterday, I guess they are in India so it will ship from there. I'll report how it goes.

    As a sidenote, I have absolutely nothing to do with them; I certainly don't work for them. Now that I re-read my post it reads a bit like an advertisement. I found them on a Google search.

    If I have a bad experience I will certainly report it as such.

  4. #4

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Keep us posted on how it goes! The prices are ridiculously cheap!

  5. #5

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neurotic Scientist View Post
    I placed an order yesterday, I guess they are in India so it will ship from there. I'll report how it goes.

    As a sidenote, I have absolutely nothing to do with them; I certainly don't work for them. Now that I re-read my post it reads a bit like an advertisement. I found them on a Google search.

    If I have a bad experience I will certainly report it as such.
    What did they charge from you for S&H? I see 30,- USD for 1-2 items (that's why I never ordered from them).

    An other thing: when I opened their Log In page, my Norton Anti-Virus reacted immediately because of
    "download of a suspicious picture" and classified this process as a "high risc".

  6. #6

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    I think this line says it all:

    "We have no obligation of Duties, Taxes and other government rules and regulations. So we thankful for our government for giving us a room to work in full swing. "

    No obligation to other government rules or regulations.. that's, not promising!

    I'd say it's impossible that it's unadulterated at that price. You just can't find something an order of magnitude cheaper and expect it to be real.

    The myriad of spelling and grammatical errors don't lend them any credence, either (yes, I aware they are Indian, but that's not a very good excuse for a professional outfit to have a website with that many mistakes.)
    Last edited by SculptureOfSoul; 24th November 2008 at 11:14 PM.
    ***For sale:

    Iris Pallida 50ml

    Ungaro I 75ml

    and more!
    - http://www.basenotes.net/threads/301...n-Man-and-more

  7. #7

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neurotic Scientist View Post
    I placed an order yesterday, I guess they are in India so it will ship from there. I'll report how it goes.

    As a sidenote, I have absolutely nothing to do with them; I certainly don't work for them. Now that I re-read my post it reads a bit like an advertisement. I found them on a Google search.

    If I have a bad experience I will certainly report it as such.
    problem is, unless you are a very trained pro. your nose will have a difficult time to detect whether they are adulterated or not. Even a 75% adulteration with aromachems can still smell like a natural absolute... this is often the trick of perfumers..

  8. #8

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Disappointing news, I'm afraid. The prices are "too good to be true." He's selling synthetics. Not that that's a bad thing in itself. I use perfume bases all the time. Perfumer's Apprentice even has a whole page full of great quality bases (they call them "Master's bases), many of which are used in brand name high end perfumes.

    I took an interest to this thread as I sell my own perfumes in my store. It's a higher end store and I make higher end perfumes, some of which contain ONLY natural ingredients. One of these uses Narcissus Absolute. I don't have it available that often because I usually have to pay between $300 to $600 per ounce (my $300 source is often out of stock), and that makes the perfume cost a lot more, and it doesn't sell particularly fast. It's not even my favorite.

    Anyway, I e-mailed this Shiva Exports guy, and after prodding him a bit, have discovered that his Narcissus is SYNTHETIC, ***NOT*** a natural absolute.


    Here's the first e-mail I sent him:

    Your site was brought to my attention on a forum I regularly visit.

    I run a small perfume business. Occasionally I make a perfume that uses Narcissus Absolute, but I don't have it available often because the cheapest price I can find for wholesale Narcissus Absolute is about $500 an ounce. I have customers who pay a lot for perfume, but not THAT many.

    I see that you are selling Narcissus Absolute for $15 US for 50 mL (1.4 ounces).

    That just seems impossible to me. You HAVE to be diluting it or adding something else... it simply cannot be pure Narcissus Absolute.

    Believe me, I know many people in the fragrance industry in the United States and I know wholesale pricing, and I know "cheap" wholesale pricing. You have "impossible" wholesale pricing... as in you are just about GIVING your product away.

    Could you please clarify:

    1) Is your Narcissus Absolute 100% pure, undiluted, and unadulterated?

    2) How it it possible that you can sell it for $11 US per ounce?

    I apologize if I sound harsh, my feelings are really mostly disbelief than anything else.


    Here's the first reply. It left me confused more than anything else:

    Its great to hear from you.

    The Narcissus is perfume grade.. It is not mentioned 100%v Pure in the website... you can see on below note on each product.

    I hope you understand that we are not fooling anybody... everybody buying my products are satisfied with the quality of the products...

    Some shops in the USA ( they sell it as 100%) buy from us confirdentially. I don't know what u people think of that case.

    Regards

    Mr. Ankur Tandon
    35 Farsh Road
    Kannauj – 209725
    UP – INDIA
    Ph: 0091 9838332079 / 0091 9450690472
    Fax: 0091 5694 235218
    Email : info@shivaexportsindia.com


    So... it's "not mentioned 100% pure", and some places "sell it as 100%", so that means then that it is diluted? I e-mailed him again:

    Thank you for replying!

    How much Narcissus Absolute is in your product? (For example, in 50 mL of your product, how much is pure Narcissus Absolute?)

    What aromachemical are you using to dilute / adulterate it?

    I may try your product (I'll order samples first of course), but I need to know this because it will affect my perfume.


    Here's his reply. He now states that his product is a synthetic perfumer's base:

    Hello

    It is not a diluted version of Narcissus. It is actually reconstituted using natural molecules in lab.

    I have used teh following GC to prepare this beautiful narcissus ...

    Narcissus absolute
    [code]
    # % Components
    9 9.58 benzyl acetate
    11 4.79 benzyl alcohol
    16 4 benzyl benzoate
    2 6.57 delta-3- carene
    4 1.46 1,8- cineole
    15 2.87 (E)- cinnamyl alcohol
    6 1.27 para- cymene
    13 0.53 (E)- ethyl cinnamate
    3 2.15 limonene
    7 0.62 linalool
    14 0.19 methyl anthranilate
    12 15.84 (E)- methyl cinnamate
    10 0.51 nerol
    1 2.39 alpha- pinene
    5 27.21 gamma- terpinene
    8 0.33 alpha- terpineol
    [/code]
    We always try to prepare as natural as possible within the price range.

    Please also try more product's sample as they are also best priced and long lasting.

    Best Regards

    Ankur


    I replied:

    Ankur,

    This is a synthetic. That's fine, but you should NOT be calling it an
    Absolute. Absolutes are prepared using solvent extraction methods from
    natural flowers.

    What you are selling is NOT an absolute. It's what I would call a
    perfumer's base.

    I'm not saying it is a bad product. I uses bases all the time. I'm
    even interested in trying yours out, which I might do.

    But you are MISREPRESENTING your product by calling it an "Absolute."
    Again, Absolutes are made using ONLY solvent extraction methods of
    natural flowers, leaves, gums, etc.

    Of course, now I have no idea which items on your site are actual
    Absolutes and which are synthetics / bases.

    You should update your site so each of the pages for your products
    specify it they are natural solvent extracted Absolutes, or if they
    are high quality synthetic perfumer's bases.

    Thanks for reading, I mean you no disrespect. I hope you can
    understand my point of view.


    $15 for 50mL of synthetic perfumer's base is what I consider a reasonably low price. I say try it. I probably will... if he's still willing to sell to me after all of the above.

    But be aware that some or all of the products he is selling are synthetics. Not all of his products are reasonable priced if they are synthetics. $40 for 25 mL of Jasmine Grandiflorum Absolute is dirt cheap, but way expensive for a synthetic base. I would point you towards Perfumer's Apprentice in that particular case.

    Bottom line... if this guy wants to be respected he needs to update his site specifying which (if not all) of his products are Absolutes and which are synthetic bases. Until he does that I would personally consider him a shady character.

  9. #9

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Chez:
    Thanks for your diligence in ferreting out the story here.
    It seems that there are more places selling adulterated or just plain junk oils than you can shake a stik at.
    It's always such a nice thing to find a great deal, and once in a while we're lucky enough to do so, but this type of misrepresentation is really annoying !

    Again, Thanks!
    -Gordon

  10. #10


    Join Date
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    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    Disappointing news, I'm afraid. The prices are "too good to be true." He's selling synthetics. Not that that's a bad thing in itself. I use perfume bases all the time. Perfumer's Apprentice even has a whole page full of great quality bases (they call them "Master's bases), many of which are used in brand name high end perfumes.

    I took an interest to this thread as I sell my own perfumes in my store. It's a higher end store and I make higher end perfumes, some of which contain ONLY natural ingredients. One of these uses Narcissus Absolute. I don't have it available that often because I usually have to pay between $300 to $600 per ounce (my $300 source is often out of stock), and that makes the perfume cost a lot more, and it doesn't sell particularly fast. It's not even my favorite.

    Anyway, I e-mailed this Shiva Exports guy, and after prodding him a bit, have discovered that his Narcissus is SYNTHETIC, ***NOT*** a natural absolute.


    Here's the first e-mail I sent him:





    Here's the first reply. It left me confused more than anything else:





    So... it's "not mentioned 100% pure", and some places "sell it as 100%", so that means then that it is diluted? I e-mailed him again:





    Here's his reply. He now states that his product is a synthetic perfumer's base:





    I replied:





    $15 for 50mL of synthetic perfumer's base is what I consider a reasonably low price. I say try it. I probably will... if he's still willing to sell to me after all of the above.

    But be aware that some or all of the products he is selling are synthetics. Not all of his products are reasonable priced if they are synthetics. $40 for 25 mL of Jasmine Grandiflorum Absolute is dirt cheap, but way expensive for a synthetic base. I would point you towards Perfumer's Apprentice in that particular case.

    Bottom line... if this guy wants to be respected he needs to update his site specifying which (if not all) of his products are Absolutes and which are synthetic bases. Until he does that I would personally consider him a shady character.
    Wow, Chez; very valuable post, thank you for taking the time to resolve this issue.
    Last edited by TheAttorney; 26th November 2008 at 10:57 PM.

  11. #11


    Join Date
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    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,359

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    Disappointing news, I'm afraid. The prices are "too good to be true." He's selling synthetics. Not that that's a bad thing in itself. I use perfume bases all the time. Perfumer's Apprentice even has a whole page full of great quality bases (they call them "Master's bases), many of which are used in brand name high end perfumes.

    I took an interest to this thread as I sell my own perfumes in my store. It's a higher end store and I make higher end perfumes, some of which contain ONLY natural ingredients. One of these uses Narcissus Absolute. I don't have it available that often because I usually have to pay between $300 to $600 per ounce (my $300 source is often out of stock), and that makes the perfume cost a lot more, and it doesn't sell particularly fast. It's not even my favorite.

    Anyway, I e-mailed this Shiva Exports guy, and after prodding him a bit, have discovered that his Narcissus is SYNTHETIC, ***NOT*** a natural absolute.


    Here's the first e-mail I sent him:





    Here's the first reply. It left me confused more than anything else:





    So... it's "not mentioned 100% pure", and some places "sell it as 100%", so that means then that it is diluted? I e-mailed him again:





    Here's his reply. He now states that his product is a synthetic perfumer's base:





    I replied:





    $15 for 50mL of synthetic perfumer's base is what I consider a reasonably low price. I say try it. I probably will... if he's still willing to sell to me after all of the above.

    But be aware that some or all of the products he is selling are synthetics. Not all of his products are reasonable priced if they are synthetics. $40 for 25 mL of Jasmine Grandiflorum Absolute is dirt cheap, but way expensive for a synthetic base. I would point you towards Perfumer's Apprentice in that particular case.

    Bottom line... if this guy wants to be respected he needs to update his site specifying which (if not all) of his products are Absolutes and which are synthetic bases. Until he does that I would personally consider him a shady character.
    Wow, Chez; very valuable post, thank you for taking the time to resolve this issue.

  12. #12

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Well I guess that sucks.

    I guess it still *might* be a decent source for some bases, but I guess I should ask myself what was I expecting for such cheap prices.

    Keep us upadated please Chez if he replies back to you or if you place an order.

  13. #13

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Here is a very interesting article written by our friend Ankur:

    http://ezinearticles.com/?Essential-...nce&id=1349620

    Essential Oil is not just oil produced from particular plant material. They are also not too greasy and light weighted like water. They are quickly evaporated. None of these is true for oils. Essential Oils are actually volatile aromatic molecules which naturally occur within certain plants and herbs. These are what give Lavender, Roses, Jasmines and all other scented plants their distinctive odor.

    Essential oils are obtained from the plant materials by a number of methods like Steam Distillation, Solvent Extraction, and Carbon Dioxide Extraction etc, most of which are costly, potentially expensive and best to professionals. It is virtually impossible to create an essential oil in very small scale or at home, they always produced in commercial factory in large scale.

    It should be very clear that essential oils are distilled or expressed products of natural aromatics plant materials. Lavender essential oil is extracted from Lavender, not from the plant smell similar like lavender. Additionally, synthetic are not essential oils because they are just mixture of aromatic chemical molecules and finally synthesized into particular plant smell. They really don't have any healing property. Plant extracted from the same species is having the real properties of healing.

    People are being confused with the existence and production of essential oils, and yet it is so simple. If "oil of rose" was produced in a laboratory by a chemist, mixing appropriate chemical molecules and its constituents to synthesize the scent of rose flower, it is not an essential oil. It is just a compound of Rose.

    Many distributors sell synthetic essence oils and they say it natural sometimes, that were never formed within living plant tissues. There are cheap, easily made and unfortunately, make up the bulk of ingredients in 99% of the magical oils sold in the United States and whole world.

    Ankur Tandon - Shiva Exports India - http://www.shivaexportsindia.com I am a distiller of essential oils, absolutes and attars. I have several years experience on distillation, customized perfumery etc.
    Talk about a contradiction in principles!!



    Here's his reply to my last message (above):

    Hi

    Kind Greetings-

    Yes, I understand your suggestions but I have 500 + buyers belongs to this website and most of them use them into their product line and brands and this website is basically prepared for providing them a soothing environment to buy their required absolutes.

    Sometime, people say they need cheaper narcissus absolute so I can't say it fragrance oil of Narcissus , because they are less educated for these things ( some of them are CEOs , Purchase Managers who were ordered to buy Narcissus absolute of low cost )

    Like the example , in Gulf countries, people say "Ruh Al Ward" to Rose Oil because they need Ruh Al Ward. They believe that Rose Oil may be different thing. So here I am dealing internationally and I should respect the questions and demands of all of my reputed customers and their queries like yours. I respect what you said but here I am in middle of what to do Or what should not to do.

    If any case, I will change the name of the Narcissus Absolute into Narcissus fragrance oil, my buyers, ask me to send Narcissus Absolute of Low Cost instead of buying directly from website.
    So If anybody have any kind of confusion in mind, please feel free to write to me, I am very delighted to answer all the queries.

    In your case, I can quote whatever you need, forget the website. But one thing keep in mind as Natural absolute will be extremely costly.

    Best Regards


    Mr. Ankur Tandon
    35 Farsh Road
    Kannauj – 209725
    UP – INDIA
    Ph: 0091 9838332079 / 0091 9450690472
    Fax: 0091 5694 235218
    Email : info@shivaexportsindia.com
    If that makes any bit of sense to anyone I'd be interested in hearing a translation.

    By the way... his web page for the Narcissus still calls it an Absolute.

  14. #14

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Almost sounds like he's saying his customers know that it's synthetic, but they won't buy it unless he calls it an absolute? (?!?!?)

    Well he does seem *sort* of honest... he could have just lied and said that the narcissus was real, but he didn't. I wonder what he'll say if you ask if his other "absolutes" are real or synthetic?

  15. #15

    Thumbs down Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neurotic Scientist View Post
    Almost sounds like he's saying his customers know that it's synthetic, but they won't buy it unless he calls it an absolute? (?!?!?)

    Well he does seem *sort* of honest... he could have just lied and said that the narcissus was real, but he didn't. I wonder what he'll say if you ask if his other "absolutes" are real or synthetic?
    I did just that. I picked a list of "absolutes" and asked him which was real, and which was synthetic:

    Hi Ankur,

    Thanks for the honesty.

    Here are the products I am interested in **at the pricing on your website** (wholesale-essentialoils.com):

    Ambrette Absolute
    Blue Lotus Absolute
    Champaca Absolute
    Frangipani Absolute
    Gardenia Absolute
    Jasmine Auriculatum Absolute
    Jasmine Grandiflorum Absolute
    Jasmine Sambac Absolute
    Labdanum Absolute
    Lily Oil (Absolute)
    Linden Blossom Absolute
    Narcissus Absolute
    Osmanthus Absolute
    Tuberose Absolute

    Before purchasing, I would like to know which of these are natural solvent extracted Absolutes, and which are reconstituted synthetics. (It affects how I work with the oils.)

    I already know the Narcissus is reconstituted, and I can see from reading your website that the Lily is reconstituted as well.

    Are they *all* reconstituted?

    Please let me know!

    Thanks again,

    Chez

    I already knew there is no such thing as Gardenia Absolute or Lily Absolute, but I wanted to see what he'd say. Here's his reply:

    Hi

    Jasmine Auriculatum Absolute
    Jasmine Grandiflorum Absolute
    Jasmine Sambac Absolute
    Labdanum Absolute
    Tuberose Absolute

    is pure

    Regards

    Mr. Ankur Tandon
    35 Farsh Road
    Kannauj – 209725
    UP – INDIA
    Ph: 0091 9838332079 / 0091 9450690472
    Fax: 0091 5694 235218
    Email : info@shivaexportsindia.com
    There you have it. Notice he doesn't say that they're "real," but "pure." I have dealt with deceptive vendors before in the USA, and this is a common tactic. It's "pure" and "uncut"... pure and uncut synthetic fragrance oil!

    He'll win points back with me when he updates that site and CLEARLY STATES for EACH PRODUCT whether it is real or synthetic, and puts them in a SEPARATE section that is NOT called "Absolutes."

    Given the deception he has shown on his web site, I don't trust him at all, even for the Jasmines, Labdanums, and Tuberose. I personally would assume at this point that his products are no different than the fragrance oils that you can purchase from various websites for $2.00 to $7.00 per ounce. You would probably be better off buying from a reputable fragrance oil vendor. Just my opinion.
    Last edited by Chez; 3rd December 2008 at 12:09 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    they are most likely very accurate reconstitutions. Theyre not worth the money - you can get Givaudin reconstitutions of most things very cheap as well... probably of similar quality. alot of their reconstitutions are not discernable from the original

  17. #17

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    That's so bizarre. HE knows he's deceiving his customers, and from the sounds of it, his customers probably know they are being deceived but yet do so willingly, just to convince themselves that they are actually using naturals?!? Absurd!

    As someone who sticks to ONLY natural essences, it's people like this guy that make my life difficult. Now, THIS guy personally - his pricing makes it too obvious. But, I am sure many other vendors, distillers, or those higher in the production chain than the stores I buy from are trying to do the same thing, and are likely a good bit more deceptive about it.

    I just can't believe he openly admits his customers are basically into self delusion. Amazing.
    ***For sale:

    Iris Pallida 50ml

    Ungaro I 75ml

    and more!
    - http://www.basenotes.net/threads/301...n-Man-and-more

  18. #18

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by smellyliquid View Post
    alot of their reconstitutions are not discernable from the original
    No "reconstitution" is 100% undiscernable from natural.

    Last edited by Neurotic Scientist; 5th December 2008 at 05:11 AM.

  19. #19

    Lightbulb Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Hi

    they are most likely very accurate reconstitutions. Theyre not worth the money - you can get Givaudin reconstitutions of most things very cheap as well... and thank u
    www.sentersoftech.com
    Last edited by HarryLemon; 21st January 2009 at 07:46 AM.

  20. #20

    Arrow Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Hi

    As someone who sticks to ONLY natural essences, it's people like this guy that make my life difficult. Now, THIS guy personally - his pricing makes it too obvious. But, I am sure many other vendors, distillers, or those higher in the production chain than the stores I buy from are trying to do the same thing, and are likely a good bit more deceptive about it.:brolly:

    www.bolg.sentersoftech.com

  21. #21

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    This company, and several of their clones were discussed on my yahoo group recently. Totally synthetic fragrance oils. I made a small purchase to confirm this, and they all had a similarity, like the scent that wafts out of an Indian bazaar, cheap incense and all.

    One of the sites actually swiped a photo of tuberose I had on my site to advertise their goods.

    I say avoid all Indian sites unless you vet them here first, everyone here is pretty smart about the cons.
    Anya McCoy - http://anyasgarden.com/
    Best of the Best awards - Perfume: MoonDance, StarFlower, Amberess, Light, Royal Lotus and as
    Project Leader: Outlaw Perfume and Mystery of Musk
    Basic Perfumery Course with lifetime access to the website - http://perfumeclasses.com
    America's First Natural Perfume Line 1991
    First Artisan Perfumer Voted in as member of the American Society of Perfumery 2013

  22. #22

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neurotic Scientist View Post
    No "reconstitution" is 100% undiscernable from natural.

    thats misleading, in terms of straight definition yes you are right, but in terms of practical application in reality it of course depends on the reconstitution in question. you can have bad and good reconstitutions ranging on the depth of their accuracy. Some can be indiscernable from nature to an untrained nose, but not all are and most aren't. for instance Giv makes a pretty good Tolu Balsam recon... but somehow it just doesnt get there 100% ...Remember, some oldschool perfumers are able to tell the material of the lining of the still just by their nose!! The issue is when there are minute proportions of materials that cannot be synthesized, and generally those are very costly to get in isolate form, so costly that theres virtually no point anyways and you might as well get the natural.
    Last edited by smellyliquid; 21st January 2009 at 10:02 PM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Alot of good work/info here.
    Thanks everyone.
    To think I was this close *tiny finger gesture* to buying Cassie and Orris absolute, among others.

    Also, can't wait to smell that new Givaudan Galbanum in action.
    Thanks again!

  24. #24

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    What do you guys think about this one? Also seems too cheap to be true
    http://www.qt-store.com/servlet/StoreFront
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  25. #25

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    ^That "Mysore" is mighty pale/transparent. LOL

  26. #26

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    I just received my "Musk of Sufi Atar" from QT -$12 inclusive of shipping for 12ml, so about the price of the Hamarain and other stuff I recently sampled. Only much worse . Smells like a truck carrying a load of Le Male crashed into a Tabac Original store. It would take a Sufi master indeed to bear this stoically. Sales will surely plummet now that Obama has banned torture. I will have to specially dispose of it together with used batteries and old paint.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Orlando, Fl, USA
    Posts
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    Angry Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Hi everyone, new here.
    Just wanted to add my $0.02 to this discussion, although I think it's pretty well understood now this guy is a complete fraud.

    I had just placed and order, then came across this thread. Boy did I feel stupid, "you get what you pay for!"! I will stick with reputable dealers in the future!!

    I emailed him asking if the oils I purchased were real or synthetic. Got a complete runaround (the "100% pure" line was used over and over with no definition), he eventually got tired of my questions and agreed to refund my money -- which he still hasn't done. I'm now involved in filing fraud charges against him through my bank.

    AVOID at all costs!

  28. #28

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    This has been a very helpful/informative thread! Thank you for the heads up and follow up info.

  29. #29

    Thumbs down Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural_Juice View Post
    This company, and several of their clones were discussed on my yahoo group recently.
    I tried to join your group and got rejected.

    I think it's ashame that you guys make these groups and then lock them down so no one new can benefit from the information posted. It goes against the spirit of having an online group to begin with.

    Sorry for the rant, had to gripe.

  30. #30

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    I sent this guy 50 dollars with paypal for a sample of oud but he never sent it and does not answer my phones anymore. so be careful. Good sellers are here and have great feedbacks so use this as a resource.

  31. #31

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Hamzah - I had that problem as well. I had to call repetedly and threaten them that i would report them to alibaba.com were I originally saw their company. They finally told me that the Oud did not pass the customs and then they refeunded my money. It took like 2 months to resolve all of this.

  32. #32

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    To good to be true? More like IMPOSSIBLE, I would say! Even if he'd had send the stuff, it would have been some synthetic fake garbage for sure, at that price.
    No guru, not method, no teacher
    Just you and I and nature

  33. #33

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Anyway, if you don't mind synthetic, but still care about high quality (btw, think about your health too if you work with these materials! Not all synthetics are the same!) you better buy it at the Perfume Apprentice.

    They have good prices too.
    No guru, not method, no teacher
    Just you and I and nature

  34. #34

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neurotic Scientist View Post
    I tried to join your group and got rejected.

    I think it's ashame that you guys make these groups and then lock them down so no one new can benefit from the information posted. It goes against the spirit of having an online group to begin with.

    Sorry for the rant, had to gripe.
    We don't lock down the group, not at all. We do deny admittance to anyone who just writes something like "I want to join" or "Looks good". Those are typically the short, non-specific types of statements that accompany the applications of spammers. We typically reject three or four a day.

    If you just wrote "Saw about this group on Basenotes" or "I like to study perfumery" you'd get right in. YOu don't realize the amount of spammers who try to get into these groups just to harvest email address and yes, then spam like the Lala guy did.

    So just drop us a note in your app that is relevant to the group and you'll get right in.

    Sorry for the "keeper of the gates" mentality we have, but now I'm sure you'll understand.

    Thanks
    Anya McCoy - http://anyasgarden.com/
    Best of the Best awards - Perfume: MoonDance, StarFlower, Amberess, Light, Royal Lotus and as
    Project Leader: Outlaw Perfume and Mystery of Musk
    Basic Perfumery Course with lifetime access to the website - http://perfumeclasses.com
    America's First Natural Perfume Line 1991
    First Artisan Perfumer Voted in as member of the American Society of Perfumery 2013

  35. #35

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamzah View Post
    I sent this guy 50 dollars with paypal for a sample of oud but he never sent it and does not answer my phones anymore. so be careful. Good sellers are here and have great feedbacks so use this as a resource.
    Hamzah, get right back to paypal and file a dispute. They're pretty good about refunding your money while they investigate. They're really tough on those who don't send goods, and if Lala can't prove they shipped the stuff, you're money is back in your pocket.

    Also, anyone who orders stuff on Paypal and pays via their credit card it doubly protected. Paypal won't refund if the "goods weren't as described" and you received them. BUT if you paid via a CC, just inform your CC company.
    Anya McCoy - http://anyasgarden.com/
    Best of the Best awards - Perfume: MoonDance, StarFlower, Amberess, Light, Royal Lotus and as
    Project Leader: Outlaw Perfume and Mystery of Musk
    Basic Perfumery Course with lifetime access to the website - http://perfumeclasses.com
    America's First Natural Perfume Line 1991
    First Artisan Perfumer Voted in as member of the American Society of Perfumery 2013

  36. #36

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Hey Natural, what perfumery group is that you are talking about? I may be interested.

  37. #37

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by abubakr_al-misky View Post
    Hey Natural, what perfumery group is that you are talking about? I may be interested.
    It's this one here:

    1700+ member Yahoo group http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalPerfumery/

  38. #38

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Thanks Grant

  39. #39

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's this one here:

    1700+ member Yahoo group http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalPerfumery/
    Thanks for posting this Grant. We do not admit those who just join to use our group as a focus group for their company or to find a pool of customers. Our group is dedicated to the exchange of information about how to make natural perfume.
    Anya McCoy - http://anyasgarden.com/
    Best of the Best awards - Perfume: MoonDance, StarFlower, Amberess, Light, Royal Lotus and as
    Project Leader: Outlaw Perfume and Mystery of Musk
    Basic Perfumery Course with lifetime access to the website - http://perfumeclasses.com
    America's First Natural Perfume Line 1991
    First Artisan Perfumer Voted in as member of the American Society of Perfumery 2013

  40. #40

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Thanks for being such a watchdog consumer protection group guys you really put a lot of effort into making sure this website wasn't scamming us
    [COLOR="Purple"]I am not afraid... I was born to do this.

    -Joan of Arc [/COLOR]

  41. #41

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neurotic Scientist View Post
    I tried to join your group and got rejected.

    I think it's ashame that you guys make these groups and then lock them down so no one new can benefit from the information posted. It goes against the spirit of having an online group to begin with.

    Sorry for the rant, had to gripe.

    I'm right there with ya, NS. I joined this group after reading Anya's post about it (natural perfumery at Yahoogroups) and participated many times in discussions over the subsequent weeks. Today I get a standard form in my e-mail saying I've been dropped for inactivity. That's a nice how-do-you-do! This, I do not need. There are many wonderful fragrance forums online, including Basenotes. I don't think I'll miss Natural Perfumery one bit.

  42. #42

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by aromagal View Post
    I'm right there with ya, NS. I joined this group after reading Anya's post about it (natural perfumery at Yahoogroups) and participated many times in discussions over the subsequent weeks. Today I get a standard form in my e-mail saying I've been dropped for inactivity. That's a nice how-do-you-do! This, I do not need. There are many wonderful fragrance forums online, including Basenotes. I don't think I'll miss Natural Perfumery one bit.
    Hi Aromagal

    You were not unsubbed due to inactivity. I believe Gisele, a moderator, wrote you several times that it was because your email address was bouncing and several attempts to revive it - a time-laborious chore for the mods and me, but we do it all the time- failed. Then you were unsubbed. Your email didn't work, plain and simple. We have 1700 folks, and we have NEVER unsubbed anyone for inactivity.
    Anya McCoy - http://anyasgarden.com/
    Best of the Best awards - Perfume: MoonDance, StarFlower, Amberess, Light, Royal Lotus and as
    Project Leader: Outlaw Perfume and Mystery of Musk
    Basic Perfumery Course with lifetime access to the website - http://perfumeclasses.com
    America's First Natural Perfume Line 1991
    First Artisan Perfumer Voted in as member of the American Society of Perfumery 2013

  43. #43

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    I bought 10 5ml samples from Shiva recently out of curiosity - there were all really dreadful. I opened one or two in a pub on the way home from the delivery depot and had to leave as people complained about the smell. Can' t really use them for anything.

  44. #44

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    An old and most useful post resurrected.

    Please don't count the QT site in the same breath with this untrustworthy fellow. I have had some of my most wonderful sandalwood oils from QT, and especially his lovely Khus oil. He is not in the same bracket at all and would be most horrified to be even in the same thread. I have always had brilliant service with him. Also not all Indian sites are a rip off either. I have had lovely oils from india too before now.

    It's a case of you gets what you pays for I think. Plus look around for reviews on the net first. I just got saved from making a payment to India via a rip off site by a google found set of reviews. I also ordered from a Turkish source recently, Ottoman something on e-bay and his were synthetics after promising to be natural and pure too. I even asked in advance of my order and got lied to. They were cheap, actually didn't smell that bad, but just completely useless to me. They did, to be fair, not argue and gave me my money back. They must have realised I would kick up a stink (scuse the pun). I shall give them to my niece who likes mixing smellies already, aged 13.

    The Internet can be fab, but it does mean more international transactions and dodgy Herberts amongst some lovely surprises.
    You can never go wrong by asking on here first though.

  45. #45
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Far northern California
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Thanks for this thread. I almost bought some "natural" essential oils from Shiva Exports then found this discussion. I also, almost bought "natural" essential oils from essential oil india website but it too is Shiva Exports. Glad I saved my time and money.

  46. #46

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Just saw this thread and thought I'd give my experience with Shiva Naturals. I used to have an online natural perfume shop. A few years ago I ordered some samples of Shiva's natural attars in sandalwood oil. They claim the natural attars are 100% natural. They also sell a line of cheap attars that use paraffin for the base instead of sandalwood oil. The sample of Rose attar in sandalwood oil was nice so I bought a large bottle. What I received was nothing like the sample. It was very thick and reeked of parrafin.

    I emailed them to complain, and told them that they had shipped their paraffin-based "attar" instead of the natural one in sandalwood. Ankur insisted that there was no mistake. I wrote several times, asking how to go about returning it, but he stopped replying. I was stuck with a large, very expensive bottle of fake rose attar that I could not sell, when if I had wanted that cheap stuff to begin with I could have ordered it for a tiny fraction of the price.

    On numerous occasions they have stolen copyright-protected text from my website, which I wrote myself, and used it to describe their products. When I catch and confront them they apologize and correct their "mistake", but I always seem to find new sites they own with the same stolen material.

    I would not recommend them to anyone.

  47. #47

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    It is a real gamble but occasionally really worth it. Having had my own share of disasters and horror oils. I have just bought some fantastic Mitti attar, Sandalwood, Khus and Jasmine from a tiny regional perfumer in Kannauij. It has taken ages to order, over two months, cost lots, cost another great amount to transfer money to pay for it in rupees into an Indian bank account, got asked for more because of high postage, taken another age to deliver, and I thought they would never arrive. I frequently wondered about my own wisdom.... but...

    They have now turned up and they are fantastic, so never give up. I think with the internet, you have to take the rough with the smooth. Thank goodness for threads like these. All too often it is too late.

  48. #48

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Has anyone experienced these folks? They are also based in India with low prices, (although nothing like "Shiva Imports") and it appears they are on the ball
    http://www.lalaessentialoils.com/nat...tial-oils.html

  49. #49

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    The lala site looks very suspicious - mores than Shiva to be honest. It claims organic oils etc. but has just pasted some organic symbols and has no certificates etc. Selling mysore sandalwood for next to nothing - no mention of the issues.....
    Someone needs to dare!

  50. #50

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Hi there, they actually did post certificates, they are at the bottom of this page. That is why I think they might be authentic:
    http://www.lalaessentialoils.com/quality.html

  51. #51

    Post Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Two are their own (!) and I am not sure of the other one,but on reading it, it gives no guarantees whatsoever about the oils. I was talking about the organic certificates - you can't follow them to the oils or producers.
    None of it rings true
    If for one second I thought these oils were genuine I would be importing a significant amount right now!
    Try them and see -

  52. #52

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    I see what you are saying. I am actually brand new to this whole essential oil thing, so I appreciate this information you are sharing. I have been trying to call then but are getting their answering machine. (I have a calling card that lets me call India for approx. 2 cents a minute, or I wouldn't be calling at all) Even if I do try them, my nose is not developed enough with this to know a real essential oil from a synthesized one. I do see organic icons on their page, but I guess anyone can put them there. They also have a video on youtube as well. Oh well, maybe I'll try them and report back. In the meantime, if anyone else has familiarity, please let us know

  53. #53

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    wow, I just found this on youtube, right before I went to order!!!! Saved my financial a$$ No lala for me!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xHJk0OEpSs

  54. #54

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    One more bit of information. I guess the quest is on to find a reliable, ethical, and affordable wholesale company that is priced less than the companies in America
    http://www.ripoffreport.com/miscella...-web-6287f.htm

  55. #55

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    I didn't have a problem with Lala at all. Mr Saini couldn't have been nicer and more helpful. I do think sometimes you have to watch out for sour grapes reporting and obviously there is always the odd postal mess with anyones business from that far away. All my oils and abs are lovely just to mess about with and arrrived quickly. The agarwood certainly stinks and isn't the best quality, but what do you expect for a $5 sample.... gold dust?

    You get what you pay for everywhere in this life.

  56. #56

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Hi Mumsy, thanks for your post. May I ask what you ordered from them, and did you feel the product was authentic and not artificially synthesized?

  57. #57

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    ps- I've called them about 10 times, and no one ever picks up. How did you get in touch with MR. Saini, by email?

  58. #58

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    You could try e-mailing the unhappy chap on utube and ask why he felt the need to broadcast his discontent so publicly.

    Ones experiences will always be different from other peoples. As for making remote orders from places that aren't known about, I personally just enjoy taking that risk in my search for variance. I always make a small test order to try a company out first. My feeling was that the risk paid off here, but occasionally it hasn't at other places. To me, that is a fun aspect of a lovely hobby and I just deal with it politely when it doesn't go my way. I've usually had refunds if I was unhappy with any products. Companies are just people, and they are usually nice if a complainant has a reasonable grouch and doesn't get rude.

    The only real way to absolutely guarantee that you will get a decent product, is to order from tried and trusted sources off the list that lots of others have tried already. Pay the extra money but be sure of a nice oil. It may seem cheaper not to, but there may be a whopping postage and customs charge on top, so allow for that when comparing.

  59. #59

    Thumbs up Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Hi, thanks to all above, because you make me save a lot of money.
    I just found shiva exports through google and found the attractive price of many highly priced EOs/absolutes, however, i wonder if the quality is good, through google search i found this thread.

  60. #60

    Default Re: "Shiva Exports" aka "Wholesale - Essential Oils" - Prices too good to be true?

    Hi,

    I have been ordering at Lala without knowing the story. The reason is that I tried many indian providers and their products were really bad. I have been buying products that are not available in Europe or really difficult to find such as Blue Lotus, Peach Leaves and some of their attar. I was happy with the quality but now reading the thread I am afraid if they would be adulterated. Do you know if they are and do you know other providers for Lotus (pink and blue), Peach Leave, Costus, Mimosa,saffron, ....Any recommendable indian provider?
    Thank you





    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    Disappointing news, I'm afraid. The prices are "too good to be true." He's selling synthetics. Not that that's a bad thing in itself. I use perfume bases all the time. Perfumer's Apprentice even has a whole page full of great quality bases (they call them "Master's bases), many of which are used in brand name high end perfumes.

    I took an interest to this thread as I sell my own perfumes in my store. It's a higher end store and I make higher end perfumes, some of which contain ONLY natural ingredients. One of these uses Narcissus Absolute. I don't have it available that often because I usually have to pay between $300 to $600 per ounce (my $300 source is often out of stock), and that makes the perfume cost a lot more, and it doesn't sell particularly fast. It's not even my favorite.

    Anyway, I e-mailed this Shiva Exports guy, and after prodding him a bit, have discovered that his Narcissus is SYNTHETIC, ***NOT*** a natural absolute.


    Here's the first e-mail I sent him:





    Here's the first reply. It left me confused more than anything else:





    So... it's "not mentioned 100% pure", and some places "sell it as 100%", so that means then that it is diluted? I e-mailed him again:





    Here's his reply. He now states that his product is a synthetic perfumer's base:





    I replied:





    $15 for 50mL of synthetic perfumer's base is what I consider a reasonably low price. I say try it. I probably will... if he's still willing to sell to me after all of the above.

    But be aware that some or all of the products he is selling are synthetics. Not all of his products are reasonable priced if they are synthetics. $40 for 25 mL of Jasmine Grandiflorum Absolute is dirt cheap, but way expensive for a synthetic base. I would point you towards Perfumer's Apprentice in that particular case.

    Bottom line... if this guy wants to be respected he needs to update his site specifying which (if not all) of his products are Absolutes and which are synthetic bases. Until he does that I would personally consider him a shady character.

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