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Thread: Luca Turin

  1. #1
    Basteri's Avatar
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    Default Luca Turin

    I bought both of his books (the guide and the other one that I forgot its name now).
    He seems to be some sort of fragrance guru but I find some of his reviews bias, seems like he has some animosity against some houses. Some greatly praised fragrances by many people, blogs and forums get almost insulting low points from Mr. Turin.
    I like his sense of humor and his down the earth approach, he is very simple and straight forward in his appreciations.However very harsh and simple about some fragrances considered gems.
    I am curious to know how serious do you people take his comments.
    Bond and Creed get pretty low scores... it is almost as he does not even put much thought into it.
    The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    There has been much debate here on the forums with regard to Mr Turin's perspectives on perfume. I think nothing divides this community more (except perhaps, for lengthy discussions on Creed).
    Some love the man, and some hate the man. Whatever the case, his contribution to the science of perfumery is staggering.
    I'll keep my opinions to myself. All it will take is one loose-lipped person to start the next sh*tfight.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    You should take Luca Turins comments about as serious as you would a Radio Talk Show Host. Trust your own nose and you'll never go wrong.

  4. #4
    Basteri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    ok , i don't want to start a controversy about it.
    He sure is a talented mind to the service of fragrances.
    The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.

  5. #5
    Basteri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    but is he Jerry Springfield or Larry King ? :-)
    The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.

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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Accidentaly I stepped into a book about him, The Emperor of Scent.

    I saw the castillian version of it in a library especialized in discounts, so it was ridicously underpiced. I did not buy it because I found it had the full array of modisms of bad quality divulgation books, but I am quite prejudicious about these so I better shut my mouth - judge by yourself in case you can find it.

    On the other hand, RedNeck mentioned a book in which he worked as a contributor, a technical work on essences: David J. Rowe, Ed., Chemistry and Technology of Flavors and Fragrances, ISBN 1-4051-1450-9 (2005)

    So I guess there is Luca Turin for everyone's tastes: the mediatic one in The Guide, the professionaly intimate one in Burrs' book and the technical one in Rowe's.

    Just pick your choice..

  7. #7

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    At first I reacted quite negatively towards The Guide. I felt a bit insulted by some of the reviews that seemed little more than drive-by shootings. With time, however, I've begun to trust it, as it gives a nice backbone to my fragrance exploration.
    Yes, he's brutal to the point of cruelty towards Creed, Lorenzo Villoresi and Mona di Orio, but his point of view is rooted in a deep respect for structure and he sticks to his beliefs. Yes, he can come off quite haughty at times. Tania Sanchez offers a nice, human balance to his arrogance, but, as a result, her reviews carry less weight than his.
    In the end, I use The Guide, along with my personal preferences, as a map to navigate through the labyrinth.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 25th November 2008 at 01:26 PM.

  8. #8
    danho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Basteri View Post
    but is he Jerry Springfield or Larry King ? :-)
    Who is Jerry Springfield? I will assume you mean Jerry Springer.
    Don't Smell the Flowers,
    They're an Evil Drug to Make You Lose Your Mind --- Dio

  9. #9
    Basteri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    thanks ruggles I share your thought, seems you have been in the labyrinth longer than me :-)

    Danho.
    Jerry Springler or what ever his name is, he is a clown that has a talk show in the US, I don't think it gets more classless and trashy than his show, pure rubbish , "rubbish extreme" :-)
    The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by thebeck View Post
    You should take Luca Turins comments about as serious as you would a Radio Talk Show Host. Trust your own nose and you'll never go wrong.
    +1. Turin is a good writer and a very clever man, but like a lot of things, a certain "groupthink" attitude often gets thrown in because of his reputation and people begin to neglect their own "nose" because Turin, and then XXYY senior basenoter, said something different about a fragrance than what we initially felt.

    As I've said so many times, "Know thyself! (and thy nose!)" It never steers us wrong, though sometimes others who don't know us or our noses can, albeit inadvertently.
    Is there any point in saying everything? -Basho

  11. #11

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    If the second book you got is "The Secret Of Scent", it's a great read.
    Lots of science but broken down nicely for everyone.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by thebeck View Post
    Trust your own nose and you'll never go wrong.
    This is excellent advice. There are several of my favorite scents that were given very low ratings in The Guide by Dr. Turin. On the other hand, he helped me to discover a handful of fragrances that were unknown to me and which I now love.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    I liked the Guide but wouldnt think of it as a collection of rules, that man is just sharing his oppinions, which mostly are more reasoned than the ones of other people.
    I think the guide is written for commercial use, not as a pamphlet for people like BNs.
    I wholeheartedly disagree with a lot of his reviews but take them as input anyway.
    And, from what I have read about him elsewhere (i e Emporer of Scent) I think his nose is scientifically just able to pick up notes better than most other people which might make it harder for him to like frags some of us love.
    Just give him the credit for a great read.

  14. #14
    Basteri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    yes the second book i got is the secret of scent, I got both from amazon
    The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri View Post
    All it will take is one loose-lipped person to start the next sh*tfight.
    @$$0*&%$%$#**#@@!&&^$$!!!!

    Are you not entertained??? Is this not why you are here??

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    I had a short discussion with Luca Turin back when he was a regular reader/poster on BN. He is a bright guy, and I enjoyed discussing things with him. I am somewhat biased since I am also a science PhD myself (physics with an MS in chemistry), and can appreciate his scientific input. Having said that, I get a little concerned when I read that people are insulted when Luca trashes their favorite smellies. Truthfully, no one should care whether a fragrance is imaginative, hackneyed, trite, or ... whatever. You have a nose which presumably works. If you like what it's telling you, that makes the fragrance de facto good.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Astaroth, you just happened to open the debate with a with juicy and tempting reply i shall resist

  18. #18

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Astaroth i don t get it.
    You say you had a discussion with LT when he was a regular reader poster on BN.
    And you joined on may 2008. Do you mean he was here between may 2008 and a few month ago ?

    ??

    Btw i m sure he reads sometimes this board, and i m pretty sure for example that he read this precise topic...
    Current top 10 in no particular order : Malle - Carnal Flower (pre 2008) ; Montale - Black Aoud ; Bond #9 - Silver Factory ; Tauer - L'air du désert marocain ; C&Z - No 88 ; Francis K. - APOM ; Creed - Aventus ; Amouage - Epic ; Profumum - Dulcis In Fundo ; Amouage - Opus V

  19. #19

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Roc_Xel View Post
    Do you mean he was here between may 2008 and a few month ago ?
    Yes, that's correct. He posted often around the time of the launch of The Guide.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri View Post
    Yes, that's correct. He posted often around the time of the launch of The Guide.
    And then promptly left after having been relentlessly badgered by a few less-than-polite Basenoters, as I recall. I was pretty embarrassed. It's one thing to disagree with his opinions on fragrances, but that's no reason to get righteous and angry to his face. Turin would be the first to say that they're just his opinions.

    Personally, I agree with Turin about 80-90% of the time, and refer to his book often. I'm not as keen on Tania; whereas Luca seems to have an irrepressible schoolboy fascination with things (I see that same personality a lot in the best scientists I work with), Tania's perspective is more hardened, more class oriented. At least, that's what I read between the lines.
    Last edited by Snafoo; 25th November 2008 at 09:01 PM.
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts. Daniel Moynihan

  21. #21

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    wow interesting. I was already reading this board daily and posting and i don t remember having seen him posting. too bad ..

    I don t agree every time with him, would say like 50-70% maybe. I totally about Creed but that s another question, and I love reading his opinions on various frags

    Another question for you :

    Any Idea what Turin usually wears ? I mean I guess he has an amazing wardrobe but did he ever mention which one he wore regulary ?
    Current top 10 in no particular order : Malle - Carnal Flower (pre 2008) ; Montale - Black Aoud ; Bond #9 - Silver Factory ; Tauer - L'air du désert marocain ; C&Z - No 88 ; Francis K. - APOM ; Creed - Aventus ; Amouage - Epic ; Profumum - Dulcis In Fundo ; Amouage - Opus V

  22. #22

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    LT undeniably did a lot of quick sampling for his book. He even alludes to this in the guide (see the review of Timbuktu, for example). He didn't do what I consider necessary to provide an in-depth assessment of a fragrance (for all that he reviewed), which is to wear it, by itself, for at least 4-5 hours, when you can give it a lot of attention. And then come back at least a week later and do it again (3 times absolute minimum). I think he should have addressed the issue about the effort required to really "get to know" a frag, especially for "newbies."

    That said, the book is quite useful, if you understand "where he's coming from." Another allusion in the book is to wearability. Some frags smell great on paper for a few minutes, but are really not something you want to wear for hours (or don't last for hours). Again, he could have addressed this point explicitly, for the newbies, but once you are an aficionado, you know "the routine"' and you can find a lot of useful information in his (and TS's) guide book.

    There are some other things that could've been stated more explicitly in the guide book, such as the distinction between niche and designer, as well as highly blended versus more "articulated" frags. And I don't really think it's worthwhile to assess frags as if there were a universal standard. For instance, I can't stand frags with geranium and sandalwood, and there's no way I could give them "5 star" reviews, so if I wrote a review I would state this point, and tell the reader to sample a strong geranium/sandalwood frag before buying it. If you like that combination, it could be a "5 star" frag for you but a "1 star" frag for me, and that's fine. Thus, I would have stated explicitly a theoretical universal standard (concepts like balance, abstraction, complexity, uniqueness, etc.) while also talking about practical considerations (again, explicitly). I may write such a book some day, but right now I'm in the "hobbyist" stage.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 25th November 2008 at 09:38 PM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Astaroth View Post
    I had a short discussion with Luca Turin back when he was a regular reader/poster on BN. He is a bright guy, and I enjoyed discussing things with him. I am somewhat biased since I am also a science PhD myself (physics with an MS in chemistry), and can appreciate his scientific input. Having said that, I get a little concerned when I read that people are insulted when Luca trashes their favorite smellies. Truthfully, no one should care whether a fragrance is imaginative, hackneyed, trite, or ... whatever. You have a nose which presumably works. If you like what it's telling you, that makes the fragrance de facto good.
    Hey, I remember that! You two were talking about gaschromo-something (I know what it is, but I don't have my dictionary atm, lol). Very interesting, and I had mentioned this technique here on Basenotes a couple of times myself.
    Real shame he took of soon after, because there were some things regarding this I really wanted to hear his opinion on.
    No guru, not method, no teacher
    Just you and I and nature

  24. #24

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Today we buy perfumes that have been created now, or fifty years ago or even 250 years ago. That is a lot of territory. What happened to the (critical) reviews of the earlier ones? Nothing, as there hardly were any printed reviews before the nineteen-nineties.

    Who wrote the first Perfume Guide in English ever?
    Luca Turin together with Tania Sanchez.
    Who was the first author of a critical book on Perfume?
    Luca Turin. He wrote Le Guide about twenty years ago for his French audience.
    Two editions were released by an Editor in Paris. Le Guide was written for a French audience mainly.

    The Guide 2008 is hot. No wonder LT and TS got married as soon as it was finished. The Guide is a continuing operation, comparable to the MS Windows project. The second update 2008 is due next month. I have no other books that offer quarterly updates.

    No matter whether one likes Perfume The Guide or not - there is no alternative, at least not in book form! For any 'bad' review contained there, I usually find one in the BN directory that is just as bad, and often worse. To be fair: I also find very good reviews of my favorites in The Guide, and in the BN directory as well. I happen to also like Turin's style, and his (French-Italian) stubbornness. Together with the Column Duftnote in NZZ that makes fifteen years of great reading thanks to a very honest author with a refreshing curiosity and self-renewing originality.

    If only one out of ten guys with their smart concepts for a better perfume guide came up with something halfway decent I would be among the first to their book. (On second thought, some American views on perfume are not helping a European nose at all.)
    May the spirit of Christmas...

    narcus

    PS @ RocXel: I don't want to add to speculations, but Turins top favorites are perfumes he probably never wears but adores as pieces of art. He has a huge collection, as seen in the fantastic interview of NZZ made at his home in 2007. More than once he recommended to wear no perfume at all, at least occasionally. He also went to interviews in 2008 without any fragrance on him.
    Last edited by narcus; 26th November 2008 at 12:44 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    In all honesty I find the guide as useful, if not a bit less, than the reviews here on basenotes. Turin's more scientific approach to the critique of perfumes is one I greatly admire, but there are times I don't find it terribly useful. The Guide has become more or less a quickly-accessed scan of a perfume that I thought about randomly.

    I completely understand the notion that there are scents of less craft than others, however, that doesn't necessarily make them bad, in my opinion. To me, this is not altogether dissimilar from all other art forms. Yes, there is a certain amount of weight given to informed perspective, ie. criticism, but for anyone of free thought, it doesn't, or shouldn't, dictate your own tastes. I love pizza from my neighborhood joint, yet I love osso bucco. Is one better than the other? One is certainly of more quality, but might not hit all the points of desire for that given moment. As for other scenarios? Don't even get me started about what appears in contemporary art museums, heh heh. Turin's and my tastes are not really too akin, ultimately.

    Personally, I think Luca Turin's insights into perfumery will long outlast him. The man is a genius, as well as pretty damned approachable/ understandable for those not in his field. However, I could name at least five basenoters who are, in their own way, genius perfume interpreters as well.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    In some important ways, reviewing frags is like reviewing movies. There is no one "right" way to do it. For example, most people want to know if a movie is like another movie (one that they like), and they have little or no interest in thinking about film in terms of "universal" concepts, such as characterization. And as I said about the geranium/sandalwood combination, some people don't want to see movies that contain certain things, like a great deal of graphic violence. It could be Rambo on the one hand, or Full Metal Jacket or Apocalypse Now on the other, but they will not see those movies.

    This is why, though not perfect, I would review according to multiple criteria if I were to write a fragrance (or movie) guide book. LT and TS obviously enjoy introducing humor into their reviews. That's another thing to consider. Some people like that sort of thing while others want something more straightforward and "technical." I wouldn't mind both! It's like when I was in grad school. You studied under several professors at the same time, and you realized that they all had something different to offer, and if you tried to force the square peg into the round hole, you only caused yourself problems. You were not going to change the professors to conform to your standards. However, I do think that many non-fiction books cause readers problems because the authors don't state their criteria explicitly.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    I do think that many non-fiction books cause readers problems because the authors don't state their criteria explicitly.
    Exactly. I think more than one of us found that missing here too. I would agree with anybody saying : the Guide is far from prefect! But as long as nobody can show me another (critical) guide, it's still the best guide on perfume.

    Does anybody who has not attacked a specific industry publicly have experience what it takes to do that, and be held responsible for it later? Some tried to sabotage the work of the Turins by not submitting samples. What a silly, useless behavior. I hope nothing worse has happened so far, but what do I know? Therefore I want to be modest when it comes to criticising these two authors. (Just an explanation, I expect nobody to have similar thoughts.)
    Last edited by narcus; 26th November 2008 at 12:42 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  28. #28
    Pollux's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    ... Some tried to sabotage the work of the Turins by not submitting samples...
    That is plain stupid. With the Web 2.0, manufacturers might avoid Turin's opinion, but there is a whole bunch of independent critics stating their opinions about their products. OK, our reviews can be cricitized as driven by naive and non experienced criteria, however, a majority of negative reviews might as well state their products are flawed.

    This whole new way consumers get involved with goods bought or tried demands of managers a completely different way of thinking. Still some are not adapting themselves to this new reality. Thus, avoiding Turin's opinion can be a gross mistake, since one way or another, other opinion leaders will do what he has not been able to do.
    Last edited by Pollux; 26th November 2008 at 12:58 AM. Reason: Typo

  29. #29
    Morning Star

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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by jenson View Post
    Astaroth, you just happened to open the debate with a with juicy and tempting reply i shall resist
    Awww, crap. Now I have to go look for it ...
    EDIT: The thread is here. I'm not seeing anything riské here. And God only knows, I try not to miss an opportunity for off-color humor.
    Last edited by Astaroth; 26th November 2008 at 01:34 AM.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    At first I reacted quite negatively towards The Guide. I felt a bit insulted by some of the reviews that seemed little more than drive-by shootings. With time, however, I've begun to trust it, as it gives a nice backbone to my fragrance exploration.
    Yes, he's brutal to the point of cruelty towards Creed, Lorenzo Villoresi and Mona di Orio, but his point of view is rooted in a deep respect for structure and he sticks to his beliefs. Yes, he can come off quite haughty at times. Tania Sanchez offers a nice, human balance to his arrogance, but, as a result, her reviews carry less weight than his.
    In the end, I use The Guide, along with my personal preferences, as a map to navigate through the labyrinth.
    I love your analogy, Ruggles. LOL. I love The Guide, and so appreciate the updates. I've explored and re-explored fragrances I thought I hated before based on new criteria. Rush, for example (the ladies version) was one that eventually won me over. I learned that my nose can change and evolve in attempting to understand what Turin meant by a masterpiece. I love the dual reviews between TS and LT, specifically. I'd love it if they did dual reviews on all the fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBoy View Post
    This is excellent advice. There are several of my favorite scents that were given very low ratings in The Guide by Dr. Turin. On the other hand, he helped me to discover a handful of fragrances that were unknown to me and which I now love.
    Precisely. There is no way I would ever have considered trying Lady Stetson without the Guide.

    I wish I could have been a lurking "fly on the wall" when he was posting here months ago. I love the fact that they credit the internet with the growth of fragrance appreciation, and the growth of the industry in general. Tania Sanchez' appreciation for the reviewers and "family" on these perfume websites was gracious and deferential. If by any chance either of you are reading; I personally thank you each for doing so.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    I have the feeling when Turin and Sanchez finally aim their taser-noses at Montale, they're going to annihilate the line.
    Lime Aoud (Montale) ** Larry of Arabia.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 26th November 2008 at 02:57 AM.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    At first I reacted quite negatively towards The Guide. I felt a bit insulted by some of the reviews that seemed little more than drive-by shootings. With time, however, I've begun to trust it, as it gives a nice backbone to my fragrance exploration.
    Yes, he's brutal to the point of cruelty towards Creed, Lorenzo Villoresi and Mona di Orio, but his point of view is rooted in a deep respect for structure and he sticks to his beliefs. Yes, he can come off quite haughty at times. Tania Sanchez offers a nice, human balance to his arrogance, but, as a result, her reviews carry less weight than his.
    In the end, I use The Guide, along with my personal preferences, as a map to navigate through the labyrinth.
    I think that Ruggles and I arrived at roughly the same point of view from opposite ends of the spectrum. Approaching the book as a new Basenoter, I was simply in awe of it. I found it to be an extremely accessible compilation of consistent thoughts on perfume - and exactly what I needed at the time. Not fully understanding it, I cherished it, but assumed that its imperfections would become apparent to me in time. They did, and if anything, those imperfections have made me respect Turin and Sanchez even more. With their rather profound knowledge, they see deeply into the forest, but sometimes cannot bear to sit in the partial shade of imperfect trees. This is expecially true of Turin. I will never fault him for this. The impossibility of projecting the myriad dimensions of scent into a single finite dimension of 5 stars - more so doing it to everybody else's satisfaction, is all the excuse he needs for my forgiveness.

    The utility of The Guide is undeniable. Even from the fragrances which fail to make the grade, I have made wise purchase decisions based upon the classifications and commentary. Matching the authors' observations to my own, I have learned something from every review. Even the one-word reviews contain gems of truth which emerge at the fragrance counter. And when I discover why I disagree with the reviewer about something, I discover something about my nose, my tastes, and even myself.

    I used to be embarrassed that we drove Luca and Tania from this place, but when I think about it now, I realize that they may have had to make a very difficult decision about continuing to post here - both in their own interest, and perhaps also in the best interest of our community. Whatever their reasons, I don't question their wisdom. And I'm thankful for all that these two have done for fragrance lovers everywhere.
    * * * *

  33. #33

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Guerlain.
    Heavy (french) perfumes.
    Pierre Bourdon.
    Synthetic woody-ambers.
    Guerlain.
    -

  34. #34

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    My only fault with Turin is that he's a classicist that sometimes tries too hard to define what the "new classics" are; An impossible task.
    He excels writing about Guerlain, but his reviews of them are often more like elegies than explorations.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 26th November 2008 at 04:12 AM.

  35. #35

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    They certainly put down JC Ellena's minimalist approach in a very subtle way. My only fault with Turin is that he's a classicist that sometimes tries too hard to name new classics.
    He excels with Guerlain's fragrances, after all, how can one f*ck up with perfect things? I do not share his enthusiasm for Chanel. I try so hard to get excited about Polge's work, but, with a few exceptions, is so boring. I agree with him that Creed, in general, are literal pretenders to the throne.
    There, I said it. Let the war begin!
    Foshizzle! The throne to what? (reformulated) Guerlain classics of 100 years ago? Aye carumba, Vetiver flankers, Guerlain homme and Insolence relight my fire! One can say Change takes time ..
    -

  36. #36

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    Foshizzle! The throne to what? (reformulated) Guerlain classics of 100 years ago? Aye carumba, Vetiver flankers, Guerlain homme and Insolence relight my fire! One can say Change takes time ..
    To the English Throne! Creed will stop at nothing to become English Royalty.
    PS: You quoted me before I got a chance to censor myself!

  37. #37

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    Foshizzle! The throne to what? (reformulated) Guerlain classics of 100 years ago? Aye carumba, Vetiver flankers, Guerlain homme and Insolence relight my fire! One can say Change takes time ..
    To be quite honest with you, I find Heritage to be a real bottle o' shlock, same with Guerlain Homme. But, come on, even in their reformulations, Derby, Jicky, Shalimar, Mitsouko, Habit Rouge, etc. are still the stuff of genius.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 26th November 2008 at 04:37 AM.

  38. #38

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    After reading some posts here, I think I can clarify a point I made above, and that is if you write that kind of book, you probably should do one of two things. Either claim that you are using some sort of universal and objective criteria (and articulate it in detail), or tell the reader that you have particular preferences and then explain how those preferences affect your reviews (or claim that they do not). I've done this, by making clear my dislike for frags with strong lavender, sandalwood, or geranium notes, for example. I don't know if I could "objectively" assess such frags, but I know that they are not for me. If I were to write a book, I'd have to make a decision about this, and then I'd explain that decision to the reader.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    I`ve read through the book and will read it again and again.
    I found some perfume gems unknown for me - like 1000 Jean Patou, Givenchy III, Nombre Noir Shiseido, etc. as the book peaked my interest to them. It also peaked my interest to vintages.
    I like the book so much that I wear it with me and read in spare time. It`s my table book, bus book, lunch book etc. I like it.

    Hey, at least the authors write more that just `Yammy!` or `Yacky!` or `Freshy!` or `That`s smells good!` - I hate to listen the same words from the colleagues every time I wear some perfume. Or from some SA in perfume shops.

    If someone is not satisfied with the Guide - one could always write more appropriate book and try to publish it. On paper or in web. And then suggest it to the readers.

    And one good idea that come to my mind - for every unsatisfied Basenoter. Let`s make OUR OWN BASENOTES GUIDE BOOK!!!
    We have one BIG advantage - web 2.0 approach, with the power of Basenoters. How many of us are writing here? Thousands!!! We could write more than two opinions about any perfume.
    Yes, it`s consumerist point of view.
    We are not specialists and experts, we have no formal perfume education.
    But remember - Tania Sanchez came to it from other board, where she wrote perfume reviews. She`s just one of us.

    I could see that half book is ready - in BN reviews.

    And if you are not willing to write the better book - read and enjoy!
    Vetiver The Great!!!

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Heavyweight Championship of the Creed World

    Ruggles vs. zztop

    You'll never see a more civilized Creed battle ever!

    Get your tickets now! Call Ticketmaster or visit www.ticketmaster.com
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  41. #41

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by moon_fish View Post
    And one good idea that come to my mind - for every unsatisfied Basenoter. Let`s make OUR OWN BASENOTES GUIDE BOOK!!!
    And if published, would proceeds help the website?

  42. #42
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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    I take the book as it is: a guide. I have discovered new things and I have understood some other that before I got wrong.
    Fragrances are line wines,the wines one can like are nor necessarily the best ones you need some guidance. Some people have not taste what so ever they will drink gasoline for that matter ;some others are true sybarites and will get more from a single wine sip.
    In other words what works for you is not always good and one must accept it. I take Turin comments as a contrast reference book. Why do I like it and why is that he does not? Why I hate it and he likes it? The answers are educational always.
    It is a pity that he is not a participant anymore, I dont blame him, the discussion will be pivoting around him most of the times.
    The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.

  43. #43

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    What was Turin's member name when he was here? I'd just be curious to read his posts.

    As well, he seems like a grown up and capable of taking criticism, so I seriously doubt that the sole reason he left was because "people were disagreeing with him." Academics who go to conferences... and I'm assuming he's been to some in his time... have pretty thick skin.

    If I were writing a book about scent, you can bet I'd join here and post about it close to publication time... it's an easy way to get access to your target audience!
    Is there any point in saying everything? -Basho

  44. #44

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by rach2jlc View Post
    What was Turin's member name when he was here?
    Answer: luca turin
    Quote Originally Posted by Pollux View Post
    That is plain stupid.../ ... avoiding Turin's opinion can be a gross mistake, since one way or another, other opinion leaders will do what he has not been able to do.
    Turin-Sanchez sampled Tabac Blond at Harrods, and the Ale Group forcing them to do it there instead of going through more thorough checks in their own premises did nothing to improve the verdict. Had they hoped Turin would just repeat one of his many previous praises? I am glad he did not!

    Turin told us here that Montale had 'refused' to send them any samples. In this case Turin-Sanchez decided not to consider Montale for the book. And therefore none of the thirty plus fine fragrances had a chance to even be mentioned in the Guide. Rather frustrating, I still think. Given their love for better perfumes, I still do not understand how they could ignore taking notice of the marriage of oudh oils with traditional French perfumery. Maybe some of the bottles do not contain real oudh, but then some of us would love to be informed about that too. To me that's one of the blind spots in The Guide. And from the little I know about the regular Montale EDPs, some seem to be beyond average too. I now hope some Montales will be covered in one of the regular updates.
    Quote Originally Posted by moon_fish View Post
    But remember - Tania Sanchez came to it from other board, where she wrote perfume reviews. She`s just one of us.
    She has been. Now she is Mrs. Luca Turin. I bet that one year of constant perfume discussions with LT would have a strong effect on any person, even if they were not as dedicated to perfume as Tania seems to be. Just look at the changes in the life of Chandler Burr after he had finished the Turin biography.
    Last edited by narcus; 26th November 2008 at 04:05 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  45. #45

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    I think Luca Turin was very approachable and down to earth here at basenotes but some people took it as a chance to ruffle feathers with someone who was not looking for that at all.

    Regarding the guide, mitsouko is often mentioned by turin as a masterpiece well I don´t like it because it reminds me of someone else who wore it all the time. I doubt Turin would insist I´d wear it anyway because he thinks its a masterpiece, it´s the guide not the book of law and I bet Turin knows that too.
    But once you get locked into a serious perfume collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.

  46. #46
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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Lian View Post
    I think Luca Turin was very approachable and down to earth here at basenotes but some people took it as a chance to ruffle feathers with someone who was not looking for that at all.
    There were really two factors involved here, unfortunately working in unison. First, it is statistically impossible to pull together thousands of people into a forum without including a few people with "issues". We all intuitively know what I mean by this. Maybe their arms are too short to masturbate effectively, or their aluminum hat is old and doesn't keep out all the government thought control rays as well as it used to. Whatever. The Internet provides an anonymous and relatively safe outlet for a large number of people with little or no social skills to vent frustrations completely unrelated to the topic of the forum. It only takes a few people loitering on the end of the Bell Curve to create an unpleasant environment while using the forum to live out their Walter Mitty I-took-down-Luca-Turin-in-a-fragrant-headlock fantasies. Many of us have seen things like this happen on other forums many times. Technology forums are even worse, since they "support" a statistically larger collection of socially inept Asperger Syndrome case studies. "My Linux kernel can kick the ass of your Linux kernel."

    Second, Luca Turin attracts attention to himself with humorous sarcasm, and that sarcasm gets applied to things which in this forum are considered to be objects of affection to many people. I'd be pleased to report that everyone in BN is a poster child for self-actualization, but it's not the case. Instead of just realizing that someone verbally crapping on their fragrance doesn't actually change its smell, or their ability to enjoy it, a lot of people feel threatened when their Eau de DisJuiceBeDaShit doesn't lift Luca's skirt high enough. So they lash out at him in frustration. Nothing will change this. Luca's sarcastic humor attracts attention to him and sells books, and the fact that a few people get their knickers in a twist over it isn't going to stop it from happening. After all, Luca knows what side of the bread the butter is really on.

  47. #47

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Looking at The Guide as a list of what to/not to buy suggestions misses the point. It's a reference book, a tool. As I wrote before, I use it as a sort of GPS.

  48. #48

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    Turin told us here that Montale had 'refused' to send them any samples. In this case Turin-Sanchez decided not to consider Montale for the book. And therefore none of the thirty plus fine fragrances had a chance to even be mentioned in the Guide.
    maybe Montale didnt like Turin reviews afterall. i don't think its a matter of sending samples. they sent me 5 of them, free of cost.....

  49. #49
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    Default Re: Luca Turin

    I will ask Montale for samples but I will never mention I am writing a book ..
    The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.

  50. #50

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Basteri View Post
    I will ask Montale for samples but I will never mention I am writing a book ..
    and you my freind...pass on your rifle to me...need to rat-a-tat-tat your toe..

  51. #51

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Astaroth View Post
    Awww, crap. Now I have to go look for it ...
    EDIT: The thread is here. I'm not seeing anything riské here. And God only knows, I try not to miss an opportunity for off-color humor.
    Hmmm, that's not the discussion I meant. Must have mistaken you for someone else.

    My apologies.
    No guru, not method, no teacher
    Just you and I and nature

  52. #52

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Lian View Post
    I think Luca Turin was very approachable and down to earth here at basenotes but some people took it as a chance to ruffle feathers with someone who was not looking for that at all.
    I've noticed this tendency as well.

    A number of my non blind-buy bottle purchases got "one star" or "two stars" in Perfumes: The Guide - most notably L'Artisan's Fou d'Absinthe **, Tom Ford Moss Breches ** (bottle split), Diptyque Eau d'Lierre *, Creed Original Vetiver *. Ouch!

    I don't think its possible to write in the way Luca Turin does without the breadth of knowledge of many aspects of perfumery plus an obviously good analytic nose. Combine that with excellent writing and you have something that is unique and invaluable to the perfume enthusiast community. I find his writing convincing and most useful.
    Last edited by Delmar; 26th November 2008 at 07:48 PM.

  53. #53

    Default Re: Luca Turin

    I browsed through one of the books and found he didn't like several fragrances that I really like, so I passed on buying the book. I trust my own judgments and those of other Basenoters more than one self-appointed "expert".

  54. #54
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Having the fragrance company send samples to be tested rather than the reviewers obtaining the samples from the marketplace, anonymously if possible, allows the element of suspicion to enter into the mix.

    Would any fragrance company, knowing the reviews of the samples they provided would probably be included in a book intended for the general public, slightly tweak samples using higher grade ingredients to possibly make them slightly more intense, better or appealing and thus garner better reviews (read sales)? Hmmm ..Would any of them do that?
    Last edited by kbe; 27th November 2008 at 03:30 AM.

  55. #55

    Talking Re: Luca Turin

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    I have the feeling when Turin and Sanchez finally aim their taser-noses at Montale, they're going to annihilate the line.
    Lime Aoud (Montale) ** Larry of Arabia.
    Man, I had me a real good laugh reading this!

    Haven't been here for a while, but is Montale still the new Greed around here?

    People, please buy yourselves some good Oud oil and make as many 'Montale's' as you want. A tiny tip of oil on your wrists, a couple of spray's from one of the frags in your collection, and presto, another Aoud perfume is born!
    Last edited by Domingo; 27th November 2008 at 03:54 AM.
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