Green / Fresh Chypre

[djbozz]

Any good GREEN / FRESH Chypres out there that is in the same league as Chanel PM ?

All i can think of is Givenchy Monsieur!

[mikeperez23]

I don't think of Pour Monsieur as 'fresh'. However, if you do want a fresh or green chypre try something like Iris Bleu Gris by MPG or Bois d'Iris by The Different Company. If you don't like iris (or want something more affordable) why not Fierce by Abercrombie & Fitch or Guess Man?

[TwoRoads]

Not necessarily fresh, but Guerlain's Derby and Aramis' Devin are excellent green chypres.

[mcjra]

Anybody care to enlighten me as to what a Chypre is?

Bois d'Orage a Chypre? if it is, what makes it a Chypre?

[Off-Scenter]

You want a green chypre? Try Givenchy III. I second Iris Bleu Gris as a "clean" chypre, but I'm not sure I'd call it "geen." While not always considered a chypre, Cristalle has a very clean green air about it, with plenty of mossy character in its base.

[mikeperez23]

Anybody care to enlighten me as to what a Chypre is?

Bois d'Orage a Chypre? if it is, what makes it a Chypre?

http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?t=217233

[runstile]

A chypre technically has bergamot in the top and oak moss in the base (sometimes with patchouli), so I'm thinking Sisley's Eau de Campagne could be classified as a green chypre, although the jasmine in the heart is usually found in fougeres. Thinking about it, this would have to be the lightest chypre I've ever smelled.

Eau de Campagne pyramid courtsey of odysseum:

Top: bergamot, lemon, basil, wild herbs, galbanum
Mid: tomato leaves, lily of the valley, jasmine, geranium, plum
Base: oak moss, patchouli, vetiver, musk

[djbozz]

GIII Intrigues me! I remb someone describing it like Mitsouko minus the peach note.
Is GIII unisex?

You want a green chypre? Try Givenchy III. I second Iris Bleu Gris as a "clean" chypre, but I'm not sure I'd call it "geen." While not always considered a chypre, Cristalle has a very clean green air about it, with plenty of mossy character in its base.

[Off-Scenter]

...Is GIII unisex?

Absolutely, as far as I'm concerned. But then again so is Mitsouko in my book.

[moon_fish]

A chypre technically has bergamot in the top and oak moss in the base (sometimes with patchouli), so I'm thinking Sisley's Eau de Campagne could be classified as a green chypre, although the jasmine in the heart is usually found in fougeres. Thinking about it, this would have to be the lightest chypre I've ever smelled.

I`m sorry but jasmine in chypre is quite frequent. Try Chypre de Coty, the grand-grand-father of chypres as example. It definitely has jasmine in heart.
You omitted cistus labdanum that is important for the heart in chypre structure. i.e. chypre = bergamot+labdanum+oakmoss and all the decorative elements

As for your (and Vibert`s) suggestions - they are excellent!

I`d add more green chypres.
Querelle by PG is close to Givenchy III (which was feminine in date of its release but now everyone will take that scent as masculine, with those alcoholic effect)
Cabochard de Gres - excellent and timeless piece!
Some people could add New-York by Parfums Nicolai.

[kopah]

Give Guerlain's Sous Le Vent a try.

[Strollyourlobster]

Gotta say this genre thing just spins me around. Must a true chypre be relatively light? Or could a scent like L'Eau Trois where the herbal green accord swamps the hersperidic/earthy accord still be a chypre. Or what about the leather/labdanum over the hesperidic vetiver/patchouli accord of Parfum d'Habit? It seems to me that those are green chypres by definition but that neither delivers the fresh/earth contrast that I think of in a chypre.

[NYCBoy]

Gucci Envy (for women) is both green and fresh. Supposedly it contains bergamot and oakmoss, but is not like a typical heavy chypre. A considerable number of men think it to be unisex and wear it.

[alkman]

Gotta say this genre thing just spins me around.

Chypre doesn't have to be light or heavy or anything else. It just has to be based on bergamot and oakmoss.

When you smell bergamot and oakmoss together, you get a whole that's greater than the sum of its parts. You get a third "ghost note" on top of them. Like a musical chord - you hear more than is actually there. Whereas when you smell (say) bergamot and vanilla, you just smell bergamot and vanilla.

You can build all kinds of fragrances around this fundamental bergamot + oakmoss accord. You can get a heavy, musky manly powerhouse like Aramis or Yatagan, or a green fresh scent like the ones in this thread.

There aren’t that many other fundamental accords like this, compelling enough to build an entire fragrance on this. In men’s perfumery, basically only chypre plus 3 more.

There’s fougere (lavender + coumarin) – anything from innocent-boyish Canoe to formal-tuxedo Caron PuH to hairy-chested Francesco Smalto to sex-stinky Jicky and Kouros.

And of course oriental (vanilla + spice) – on which you can make anything from mysterious-sweet Opium PH to dry, smoky Idole to pencil-shavings Gucci pour Homme.

And last but not least, hesperidic (citrus + herbs). This stretches all the way from the original Eau de Cologne by Giovanni Maria Farina all the way up to Acqua di Gio, the same old formula pumped full of synthetic aquatics. Also includes some frags you'd never even think to count as citrus, like Helmut Lang’s Cuiron pour Homme.

So…say you like light fresh green scents. A family label like chypre, by itself, won’t tell you right off the bat if you're likely to enjoy a scent or not. (That’s what the modern, marketing-type terms like green, woody, leather are for).

So what’re the old family classifications good for?

What they will tell you is this: let’s say you’ve got a 12-frag wardrobe and want to expand it. You will get the most diversification for your dollar if you buy a new scent from a family that’s under-represented in your collection.

If you like heavy, spicy scents like I do, you might find that 80% of your wardrobe is in chypres and orientals. So for my Christmas buy, I’ll add the most depth by buying a fougere or hesperidic.

I can find heavy spicy scents in those families. You could also find fresh, green or woody, leathery or aquatic scents in each one of the families too.

Does that make sense?

[alkman]

Or could a scent like L'Eau Trois where the herbal green accord swamps the hersperidic/earthy accord still be a chypre. Or what about the leather/labdanum over the hesperidic vetiver/patchouli accord of Parfum d'Habit? It seems to me that those are green chypres by definition but that neither delivers the fresh/earth contrast that I think of in a chypre.

L'Eau Trois seems to be a fougere. Lavender isn't very prominent in it, but it's there as a structural element.

I'm not as sure about PdH...

[Strollyourlobster]

Helpful response, Alkman. Thanks. I'll have to go back and think about lavender in relation to Trois.

[alkman]

Helpful response, Alkman. Thanks. I'll have to go back and think about lavender in relation to Trois.

I'm actually not as sure now... I mean, I'm pretty sure I smelled lavender in it when I tested it but no way there's coumarin in the base.

If you go by the listed notes, Eau Trois is no kind of recognized family. So either they're complete geniuses invented their own family or there's one or more notes they're not telling us about. Occam's razor says just a little citrus smuggled in somewhere to make it hesperidic on the sly. Easiest theoretical route to a recognized accord, but who knows.

Man, that house is a doozy. ;-) Anyhow, great stuff.

[bbBD]

Excellent post alkman - good concise descriptions of the genres. The link to the chypre thread, above, gives lots of good info.

I strongly second the recommendation of Givenchy III as an excellent representative of the genre... even better if you can find the vintage (4ml minis are available at perfumecountry). Between GIII and PM (original), you'll be able to get the vibe of what a chypre is. Tiffany for Men is PM on steroids (and perfected, IMO). I've never seen it discussed, but I'm also a fan of Montale Chypre Vanille.

[sables]

What about "ô" de Lancôme?! It´s not that green, but fresh and chypre. And it shares some similarities with Guerlain´s "Sous le vent" which is pure chypre-heaven, but hard to get and terribly expensive........
And what about "Insensé" de Givenchy?! It´s green, fresh and chypre. I always think of it as a male version of Chanel´s wonderful fresh, green chypre "No 19"!
Another one comes to mind: Laura Tonatto´s "Albi", a spicier version of Pour Monsieur de Chanel.

[the_good_life]

I'll second Albi. And add some classics:
Nino Cerruti (vintage)
Fahrenheit
Grey Flannel

[Dolphins]

Gres Cabochard stunning just discovered this frag.

[Titan]

Would Polo Modern Reserve (PMR) fit the bill? I believe the original Polo is classified as a Chypre. The PMR tester label says Aromatic Leather however.

[bbBD]

I believe the Polos are fougeres - which may be wrong but they are most definitely not chypres.

[mikeperez23]

I believe the Polos are fougeres - which may be wrong but they are most definitely not chypres.

Yes they are fougeres.

[Kevin Guyer]

The ladies have been blessed with so many wonderful green chypres. Balmain de Balmain is one that comes to mind. Y by YSL is quite nice, too.

[Dimitrios]

Gianfranco Ferre & Enrico Coveri