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  1. #1

    Default Cannabis Rose, Paestum Rose, Jubilation XXV connection

    The first of these I smelled was Paestum Rose, which I initally liked, but soon discarded as the rose note turned out to be just too fruitily obnoxious.

    Then I tried Amouage Jubilation XXV Man and felt it had exactly the same fruity-rose plus cedary-incense- Iso E super accord, only the sweet fruity floral was toned down considerably and better integrated with the other notes. Still very distinctive, though.

    Well, I thought, both are by Bertrand Duchaufour, he's obviously tweaking some standard accord of his, recycling/developing ideas.

    So yesterday night (and today again) I'm smelling Fresh's Cannabis Rose, and my first thought was: this must be by Duchaufour. Same old thing, more rose again this time, and a little more "shampooey" than in Paestum, but the parallels are undeniable. Well, this one is by another (French) nose, Jerome Epinette of Robertet.

    So, is this just a compositional trend I'm smelling here, or some new (or old) popular molecule/blend, or... is it just me ?
    Last edited by the_good_life; 11th January 2009 at 09:20 PM.
    My Wardrobe
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Cannabis Rose, Paestum Rose, Jubilation XXV connection

    I was wondering the same after smelling He Wood, Terre d'Hermes, Passage d'Enfer and Jubilation XXV. Not an unpleasant accord, but damn, it's becoming old fast. Clearly, Duchaufour is not the only one liberally administering the Iso E Super magic...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Cannabis Rose, Paestum Rose, Jubilation XXV connection

    I haven't smelled Cannabis Rose but I know the accord of which you speak. My guess is that it is a new heart accord made by one the big four materials companies. I've smelled it in a few other places too (trying to remember, certainly quite a few feminies I have smelled on other people). It is quite dense, sweet, fruity and rosy and persists without development; this endurance gives it a plasticky slightly synthetic quality to me.

    What is really naughty is when they put it in with iso-e as well. Why don't they chuck in a bit of Calone for good measure?
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Cannabis Rose, Paestum Rose, Jubilation XXV connection

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    The first of these I smelled was Paestum Rose, which I initally liked, but soon discarded as the rose note turned out to be just too fruitily obnoxious.

    Then I tried Amouage Jubilation XXV Man and felt it had exactly the same fruity-rose plus cedary-incense- Iso E super accord, only the sweet fruity floral was toned down considerably and better integrated with the other notes. Still very distinctive, though.

    Well, I thought, both are by Bertrand Duchaufour, he's obviously tweaking some standard accord of his, recycling/developing ideas.

    So yesterday night (and today again) I'm smelling Fresh's Cannabis Rose, and my first thought was: this must be by Duchaufour. Same old thing, more rose again this time, and a little more "shampooey" than in Paestum, but the parallels are undeniable. Well, this one is by another (French) nose, Jerome Epinette of Robertet.

    So, is this just a compositional trend I'm smelling here, or some new (or old) popular molecule/blend, or... is it just me ?
    I've XXV and a sample of Paestum Rose and don't find many similarities between those two. I will do a side by side test tomorrow though.
    Did you actually give XXV a full wearing or just tried once in a shop? The best thing about XXV is its base IMO - 4+ hours into the drydown.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Cannabis Rose, Paestum Rose, Jubilation XXV connection

    I must agree with phibess, the accord which you speak about (which I am VERY FAMILIAR with) I don't really get in Jubilation XXV.

    I do however smell it in Paestum Rose, Cannabis Rose and White Patchouli by Tom Ford. One could argue there's a 'hint' of it in Voleur de Roses by L'Artisan Parfumeur also. It's a very sharp, unmistakable rose/patchouli combo.
    "One day I will find the right words, and they will be simple"

    -- Jack Kerouac

  6. #6

    Default Re: Cannabis Rose, Paestum Rose, Jubilation XXV connection

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    The first of these I smelled was Paestum Rose, which I initally liked, but soon discarded as the rose note turned out to be just too fruitily obnoxious.

    Then I tried Amouage Jubilation XXV Man and felt it had exactly the same fruity-rose plus cedary-incense- Iso E super accord, only the sweet fruity floral was toned down considerably and better integrated with the other notes. Still very distinctive, though.

    Well, I thought, both are by Bertrand Duchaufour, he's obviously tweaking some standard accord of his, recycling/developing ideas.

    So yesterday night (and today again) I'm smelling Fresh's Cannabis Rose, and my first thought was: this must be by Duchaufour. Same old thing, more rose again this time, and a little more "shampooey" than in Paestum, but the parallels are undeniable. Well, this one is by another (French) nose, Jerome Epinette of Robertet.

    So, is this just a compositional trend I'm smelling here, or some new (or old) popular molecule/blend, or... is it just me ?
    Nothing new I am afraid my friend. The basis of this rose note is a classical combination of phenylethal alcohol, citronellol, geraniol, and geranyl acetate, a rose odorants cocktail in combination with patchouli that has formed the basis of many rose patchouli accords in the past. Such a combination can be traced all the way back to Jean Courturier’s Coriandre and can also be found in Aramis 900 EDC, a fragrance influenced by Coriandre but one in which this rose accord is modified with more care by other natural and aromachemical constituents such as natural geranium oil, rosewood/linalool, vetiver, and Lyral® (hydroxyisohexyl 3-cyclohexene carboxaldehyde) to abate the unrelenting stridency and salience of the rose odorants combination. Of the three you mentioned, I find this rose accord in Cannabis Rose EDP, in the final analysis, unbearable in its stridency and salience. Coriandre is similarly unbearable until the chypre basenote accord takes over, and is clearly the frame of reference and originating idea for rose patchouli accord in Cannabis Rose EDP.

    This classic rose odorants cocktail in combination with patchouli is given a slightly different, more fruity plum inflection through the addition of one or more of the damascones or similar fruity rose odorants in Voleur de Roses.

    I can certainly detect this basic rose accord in all three fragrances you mention; each fragrance, of course, modifies it in a particular way, as you have astutely, noted, and it is more central as an accord in Cannabis Santal than it is in Paestum Rose EDP than it is in Jubilation XXV. You have a sharp nose my friend.

    I have to say, the Iso E Super
    ® spoils Jubilation XXV for me. I seem to sense this aromachemical everywhere these days, and it is seriously spoiling my enjoyment of certain fragrances particularly when it’s too salient.

    scentemental
    Last edited by scentemental; 12th January 2009 at 05:21 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cannabis Rose, Paestum Rose, Jubilation XXV connection

    the_good_life, rose and patchouli is also a tried and true combination for natural perfumery. The two combine synergistically, and it is a very common blend for rose-centric fragrances. This accord was around long before Duchafour.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Cannabis Rose, Paestum Rose, Jubilation XXV connection

    Quote Originally Posted by scentemental View Post
    Nothing new I am afraid my friend. The basis of this rose note is a classical combination of phenylethal alcohol, citronellol, geraniol, and geranyl acetate, a rose odorants cocktail in combination with patchouli that has formed the basis of many rose patchouli accords in the past. Such a combination can be traced all the way back to Jean Courturier’s Coriandre and can also be found in Aramis 900 EDC, a fragrance influenced by Coriandre but one in which this rose accord is modified with more care by other natural and aromachemical constituents such as natural geranium oil, rosewood/linalool, vetiver, and Lyral® (hydroxyisohexyl 3-cyclohexene carboxaldehyde) to abate the unrelenting stridency and salience of the rose odorants combination. Of the three you mentioned, I find this rose accord in Cannabis Rose EDP, in the final analysis, unbearable in its stridency and salience. Coriandre is similarly unbearable until the chypre basenote accord takes over, and is clearly the frame of reference and originating idea for rose patchouli accord in Cannabis Rose EDP.

    This classic rose odorants cocktail in combination with patchouli is given a slightly different, more fruity plum inflection through the addition of one or more of the damascones or similar fruity rose odorants in Voleur de Roses.

    I can certainly detect this basic rose accord in all three fragrances you mention; each fragrance, of course, modifies it in a particular way, as you have astutely, noted, and it is more central as an accord in Cannabis Santal than it is in Paestum Rose EDP than it is in Jubilation XXV. You have a sharp nose my friend.

    I have to say, the Iso E Super
    ® spoils Jubilation XXV for me. I seem to sense this aromachemical everywhere these days, and it is seriously spoiling my enjoyment of certain fragrances particularly when it’s too salient.

    scentemental
    Thanks for providing my anecdotal observations which such a substantial frame of reference (and please do write that book before the Men in Black from IFF abduct you to AREA 51 for knowing too much ).

    After 13 hours Amouage has settled into its base, though traces of the floral accord remain, while Cannabis Rose is still blasting away with full-throttle rose. Picture Shakespeare's "A Rose by any other name" - screamed into your ear for 10 hours straight!

    As to Iso E Super, you are not alone. I feel like a latter-day version of Huysmans' Jean d'Esseintes, persecuted to the point of paranoia by the intrusion of frangipani into his olfactory space, and ultimately his mind. I am thinking of seeking refuge in some natural perfumery and old classics to regain my balance

    I do think it diminishes Amouage XXV, as well as Tauer's recent Incense Extreme, which comes across like a B-side of the CdG Incense hit series - a left-over idea, never properly arranged and produced. I would have prefered the pure CO2 extracted Olibanum he used as a starting point. As to his Incense Rosé, well, guess what... (though I must admit, his rose, while also fruity, really shows Cannabis to be the scented nail polish remover it is)
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Cannabis Rose, Paestum Rose, Jubilation XXV connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Asha View Post
    the_good_life, rose and patchouli is also a tried and true combination for natural perfumery. The two combine synergistically, and it is a very common blend for rose-centric fragrances. This accord was around long before Duchafour.
    Absolutely, and I like it. But this was even more specific and a lot less natural
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Cannabis Rose, Paestum Rose, Jubilation XXV connection

    I don't know about this unholy trinity, but I sniffed Voleur de Roses today and was much reminded of Cannabis Rose. They both have the effect of what I would call "rose tar".

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