How to extract the ethanol from a perfume to leave the perfume oils only?

[GourmandHomme]

I want to make a shower gel that smells like my Prada Infusion d'Iris by mixing unscented shower gel with the perfume itself.

The perfume itself (EDP strength) contains 80% alcohol, and I don't want that alcohol in a shower gel when possible.

The planned dilution is (per 100 ml, by volume): 90 ml shower gel to 10 ml perfume. That means in that shower gel there will be 2% of perfume oil and 8% alcohol.

Ideally, I'd like to extract as much alcohol out of it as possible so that I can increase the strength of the perfume oil, and I know that I won't be able to take out everything. Still, any ideas on how to take out the alcohol? Are there any chemicals that bind with alcohol but not the perfume oils?

[smellyliquid]

why don't you just buy the shower gel ? it wont be any cheaper doing it your way... its also going to be super super hard and you'll probably lose at least some of the topnotes trying.

not to mention edt's and shower gels have slightly different formulas for a reason, some things used in your edt will not be stable in a shower gel, its also going to seperate unless you know what to do... lots of reasons why this is a bad idea

[GourmandHomme]

why don't you just buy the shower gel ? it wont be any cheaper doing it your way... its also going to be super super hard and you'll probably lose at least some of the topnotes trying.

not to mention edt's and shower gels have slightly different formulas for a reason, some things used in your edt will not be stable in a shower gel, its also going to seperate unless you know what to do... lots of reasons why this is a bad idea

Yes - but as Einstein says, "If we knew what the result's going to be, it's not an Experiment."

It's both because I'm a cheapskate and I'm a trainee DIY perfumer. So it's for experimenting as much as for me actually using it (if it works). If I'm wrong, I wasted probably about 20 ml of my Prada IdI (worth approx US$8) plus don't worry even after that, I'll still have over 560 ml of that perfume (that's not a typo).

Anyone interested in the result of this experiment can PM me after this weekend where I plan to experiment (courier says my shower gel base arrives tomorrow). If there's enough interest, I'll post the results here.

[Neurotic Scientist]

I believe this is a type fragrance oil:

http://www.saveonscents.com/product_...oducts_id/3706

You can try buying that and mixing it with your shower gel base. I would recommend the "extreme" concentrate. (Manufacturer and Cosmetic are the same with "extreme.")

[smellyliquid]

Yes - but as Einstein says, "If we knew what the result's going to be, it's not an Experiment."

It's both because I'm a cheapskate and I'm a trainee DIY perfumer. So it's for experimenting as much as for me actually using it (if it works). If I'm wrong, I wasted probably about 20 ml of my Prada IdI (worth approx US$8) plus don't worry even after that, I'll still have over 560 ml of that perfume (that's not a typo).

Anyone interested in the result of this experiment can PM me after this weekend where I plan to experiment (courier says my shower gel base arrives tomorrow). If there's enough interest, I'll post the results here.

well there's a few ways of going about it, you can try and burn it off (no kidding), it should stop burning once you hit the end of the alcohol, but you will lose some of the topnotes for sure - how much you lose will be the experiment. either way it will still smell like the original frag. just put it in a really shallow container like a dinner plate for example, so you stretch the surface area to a max and ignite it, dont use matches!!! you might transfer that yucky smoke smell.

You could also try and evaporate it off... using the same concept, use a wide shallow container. depending on the exact formulation of prada, the fragrance components POSSIBLY might start to visibly seperate from eachother as the alcohol they are dissolved in dissapears (not everything is soluble into everything else), so don't panic if you see this happening.

As you were mentioning earlier, something to bind to the alcohol, which I guess you were thinking would create some kind of solid that could be separated from the oil? no... I'm not a chemist but I really doubt that, especially since depending on the formulation of the fragrance there may be some non-ethyl alcohols that actually make up the fragrance itself. obvious problem here as well is that you wouldn't be forming a precipitate that could be removed, since the alcohol greatly outnumbers the oils.

My last idea comes from the fact that a lot of aroma chems have a freezing point which is generally much higher than alcohol, but not all, so you could theoretically get some of them out that way...

If i were you I think I would use the burning technique (short and sweet), as you will probably lose more topnotes via the evaporation technique. The freezing technique will probably only partially effective...

as a student perfumer myself, I can tell you that this experiment will yield no help to you as a student of perfumery though... grade 9 science experiment maybe, perfume no.. I know its difficult to convey a tone of voice on the internet but believe me that I''m not trying to sound like an a**, but what knowledge are you trying to gain from this? it will work to a certain degree, I can tell you that much already - and I guess it sounds kinda fun... but I'm wondering if there is something specific concerning perfume you are trying to learn here. Afterall, we do know the result of the experiment already, the small testable differences would lie of course in the various different formula constructions of other perfumes and their chemical properties, for instance your quantitative results for this experiment would only be applicable to this specific Prada perfume.

also, what shower gel base are you using, like i said unless you know what your doing, its possibly going to separate again shortly after...

I have to get back to the issue of stability in the shower gel medium, the formula for Prada EDT and Shower are probably different because different applications have different limitations and possibilities of what chemicals can be used, so your resultant extracted concentrate may not be stable in your shower gel base, problems will range from discolouration, spoilage of the scent, insolubility, etc

I have a feeling your a beginner who, like all beginners (including myself at a time), thinks this whole fragrance creation thing is alot easier than it really is... so I'm wondering again if theres something specific your trying to test behind this idea, if so its probably better to just ask that question.

have fun whatever you try!

- Smelly

[GourmandHomme]

Thanks for the hints, smellyliquid. Never thought of the burning off method but maybe I'll finally get to use my fire extinguisher for once!

I'm a former org. chem student (so I understand basic org. chemistry concepts like reaction rates, solubility of X in solvent Y, some separation techniques, etc.) I also have read the quite technical book "Intro to Perfumery" where it was already explained to me that the formulation of the fragrance in an alcohol base will be different from solid soap or shower gel base.

What I wanted to learn was, "OK I knew the theory now. But... what if I put perfume X in shower gel base Y and mix it well - will it blend well and be useable, separate, or completely fall apart?"

So far the result of the experiment is: The water and the alcohol seems to be interfering with the shower gel performance. But I took a shower using it and I smell like my perfume for about an hour. BTW, the final dilution was approx 8% EDP liquid to shower gel.

[JonB]

Why not just spray yourself with the EdP when you are still wet getting out of the shower. I really doubt you are going to find a method to concentrate (i.e. remove alcohol) from your frag at home.

[scentophile]

Coming from a scientific background, I encourage experiments and exploration, but I say do not waste too much time on this. Even if you get a 100 percent separation, the fragrance will probably not work so well in the shampoo base simply because the formula is not strong as I remember it.

It is funny because in terms of the industry, we are more interested in getting a fragrance out of shampoo base than the other way around.

[Roy]

I suspect the only way to separate oils from the alcohol they are dissolved in is fractional distillation. Again, there is more than oil and alcohol in fragrace, as they often use other chemicals to bind the fragrace, clear the juice, color the fragrance, etc..., but that's likely the only way you can separate the two liquids from one another once blended. Good luck finding a still in the organic chemistry lab.

[hp1502]

You can do it via fractional distillation, or get a long test tube and gently heat the perfume to 78 degrees C, light the top of the tube and watch for a blue flame, when the flame either goes out or changes colour remove from the heat,

[ultranova3]

You should know that you have to check for all the boiling points for all the chemicals used in the perfume (which is even more troulesome than just buying the shower gel).

First, you need to run HPLC and possible GCMS also to check on the chemical composition of the perfume.

Next, you have to check on the b.p.s for all chemical present and also the vapor pressure on the mixture.

Next, you can concentrate the perfume via rotary evaporator, evaporation in vacuum etc. This is provided that vapor pressure of the chemicals are lower than that of alcohol.


You can only do that if you have access to those equipment. Otherwise, it would be better if you just purchase the shower gel.