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  1. #1

    Default Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Hi all,

    Wow, I didn't realize it would be so difficult to find a source of Pure/Natural Food Grade Alcohol
    aka Ethanol/Ethyl Alcohol. I have been searching the web all afternoon and have turned up very little.
    Surely, there must be a State side supplier of "Food Grade Alcohol" that doesn't cost one hundred and seventy five dollars (for a one gallon jug). I rather not use Vodka or Everclear. Thanks or any help.

    Regards,
    SixCats! aka Tom

  2. #2

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    OK Sports fans,

    I found one place that sells 200 proof at forty dollars and fifty cents a pint...plus twenty two dollars
    HAZ MAT charge...plus shipping. I figure I would need at least two pints! Man, this stuff adds up quickly!
    I need bottles as well. I plan to make some BEAVER Tincture! So, if there is a better deal out there, I sure would like to know.

    Regards,
    SixCats!
    Last edited by SixCats; 23rd February 2009 at 11:07 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    If you can get 190 proof Everclear that is probably the least expensive for small users since you can get this in small bottles. Dealers in industrial alcohol often sell in packages of not less than 1 gallon.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    If you're making perfumes (which is probably why you're here) - why do you want food-grade ethanol?

    Shouldn't you be looking for "perfume-grade ethanol"? Which is cheap because you can't drink it, but is used for perfumery as the contaminant is non-odorous...

    This is not in the States, but in Australia, the price of 95% perfume-grade ethanol vs 95% food-grade ethanol is like 10x cheaper if you know where to buy.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Hi all,

    Thank you guys for responding to my thread. GH, a fair question. I plan to make Beaver Castoreum Tincture using Maine Beaver Pods. I am attempting to keep the Tincture as natural as possible. It is my understanding that Abdes Salaam of www.profumo@profumo.it uses Food Grade Alcohol for his Tinctures and that's good enough for me! I can't remember where but, I recently read (somewhere) on a Perfume site that one should avoid Everclear and Perfumer Alcochol. Darn it, I should of bookmarked that site as I can't recall their reasoning. Whatever their reasoning, I suppose it must of made a lot sense to me as I have been seeking out UNdenaturated Ethanol/Pure Natural Food Grade Alcohol ever since reading that sites information. Thanks again all for your help. Dcampen, PM sent.

    Regards,
    SixCats!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SixCats View Post
    Hi all,

    Thank you guys for responding to my thread. GH, a fair question. I plan to make Beaver Castoreum Tincture using Maine Beaver Pods. I am attempting to keep the Tincture as natural as possible. It is my understanding that Abdes Salaam of www.profumo@profumo.it uses Food Grade Alcohol for his Tinctures and that's good enough for me! I can't remember where but, I recently read (somewhere) on a Perfume site that one should avoid Everclear and Perfumer Alcochol. Darn it, I should of bookmarked that site as I can't recall their reasoning. Whatever their reasoning, I suppose it must of made a lot sense to me as I have been seeking out UNdenaturated Ethanol/Pure Natural Food Grade Alcohol ever since reading that sites information. Thanks again all for your help. Dcampen, PM sent.

    Regards,
    SixCats!

    Everclear or the like are exactly what you are looking for (i.e. 190 proof/ 95% alcohol).

  7. #7

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Sixcats: Hey, in the end, it's your money and your tincture, not mine, so buy as much as you can afford.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    You can purchase from chemical company: www.sigmaaldrich.com
    They have different kind of ethanol with different purity but the higher the purity, the more expensive. If you get the analytical grade or HPLC grade ethanol, it would be very expensive.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    For natural perfumery, Grape Alcohol is best:
    http://www.alcsol.com/ordering/content_pricing.html

  10. #10

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Sigma doesn't sell to individuals. They sell to registered companies, and only after a background/credit check. It is my impression that sale of EtOH is restricted, particularly for food grade, non-denatured ones.

    On a different note, using absolute EtOH 200 proof, is not recommended for perfume use, because it is distilled out of a mixture of water-benzene-EtOH. So, the 200 proof ones have a trace amount of benzene. Ok for chemical synthesis, not good for us perfume DIY'ers.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Hi all,

    Again, thank you ALL for your help. Please note, this is a learning experience for me and I very much appreciate all the information you all provided. Evil...thank you for the info regarding 200 vs. 190 proof.
    Very useful information. Aghora, yes, I have read that Grape Alcohol is best for Natural Perfumes, thank you for that reminder. Ultra, I am trying to find as NATURAL/PURE a product as possible WITHIN a reasonable price point. Last night, I discovered (and talked to) one dealer of ORGANIC FOOD GRADE Alcohol. Price is $175.00 per gallon! YIKES! I will NOT be buying that Alcohol. Hi GH, yea, I don't want to get TOO carried away with this Alcohol thing. I just want some good ol' Food Grade 190. I hope to make THE best NATURAL Beaver Castoreum Tincture I can make at a reasonable price. Jon, man, I have got to read up more on this Everclear. I hope I can find that thread (not here) that recommend NOT using Everclear. I would very much like to know the reasoning behind this NON recommendation. Oooh, I have also been informed (via PM) that Everclear is NOT allowed shipped to Maine. Dave...THANK YOU so very much my friend for all your help.

    Regards,
    SixCats! aka Tom

  12. #12

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SixCats View Post
    Hi all,

    Again, thank you ALL for your help. Please note, this is a learning experience for me and I very much appreciate all the information you all provided. Evil...thank you for the info regarding 200 vs. 190 proof.
    Very useful information. Aghora, yes, I have read that Grape Alcohol is best for Natural Perfumes, thank you for that reminder. Ultra, I am trying to find as NATURAL/PURE a product as possible WITHIN a reasonable price point. Last night, I discovered (and talked to) one dealer of ORGANIC FOOD GRADE Alcohol. Price is $175.00 per gallon! YIKES! I will NOT be buying that Alcohol. Hi GH, yea, I don't want to get TOO carried away with this Alcohol thing. I just want some good ol' Food Grade 190. I hope to make THE best NATURAL Beaver Castoreum Tincture I can make at a reasonable price. Jon, man, I have got to read up more on this Everclear. I hope I can find that thread (not here) that recommend NOT using Everclear. I would very much like to know the reasoning behind this NON recommendation. Oooh, I have also been informed (via PM) that Everclear is NOT allowed shipped to Maine. Dave...THANK YOU so very much my friend for all your help.

    Regards,
    SixCats! aka Tom
    I would guess that a majority of hobby perfumers use Everclear with great results (as do I). It should be available at most liquor stores, though in certain states even that is a problem.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Btw, where do you get the Beaver Pods? I am also interested to try the tincture.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Keep in mind when using vodka or Everclear in the States you may need a liquor permit to sell your products. Check with your state licensing board. This is not a concern for PAs. Good luck!

  15. #15

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    $175 a gallon? Wow! That is what....about $55/Liter? We produce and export from Paraguay, South America organic certified food grade ethyl alcohol made from sugar cane molasses - and we sell it bulk at $1.80/liter....add in taxes and such and you're at about $2.35 max per liter their cost.

    You may try Florida Distillers or Ultra-Pure. they both sell organic certified ethyl alcohol at much more reasonable rates than $175/gallon I think

  16. #16

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Keep in mind when using vodka or Everclear in the States you may need a liquor permit to sell your products. Check with your state licensing board. This is not a concern for PAs. Good luck!
    This is not a problem, Federal law supercedes state laws and specifically exempts fragrances made with beverage grade alcohol from being regulated by state alcoholic beverage laws.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by fairlytradedorganics View Post
    $175 a gallon? Wow! That is what....about $55/Liter? We produce and export from Paraguay, South America organic certified food grade ethyl alcohol made from sugar cane molasses - and we sell it bulk at $1.80/liter....add in taxes and such and you're at about $2.35 max per liter their cost.

    You may try Florida Distillers or Ultra-Pure. they both sell organic certified ethyl alcohol at much more reasonable rates than $175/gallon I think
    How much would I need to buy to buy direct ?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Ethanol is ethanol regardless of whether it is made from grapes, potatoes, sugar cane, corn, or some other plant. The by-products are different, giving each type of ethanol a slightly different smell, but it's presumably the ethanol you're after, not the extras. I'm not sure what Everclear is made from, but it seems to me that it, or perfumer's alcohol, would do the job without costing a fortune. But as another poster said, it's your beaver parts and your money.
    Blog: www.perfumenw.blogspot.com
    Website: Olympic Orchids Artisan Perfumes http://orchidscents.com.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    I never post in this forum because DIY is not my sort of thing, and this kind of shilling is probably against forum regulations but I'm curious:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellen Xiao View Post
    the Ex- works' price is about USD1538/ Ton.
    Is that $1538 per short ton, long ton, or metric ton?

    I can see a BN Split thread shaping up already...
    Last edited by Emlynevermore; 25th April 2011 at 03:34 AM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Never mind I should have read the entire post XD


    Actually a side not that I recalled, If you want pure stuff you could probably buy denatured 195 and then run it through two brita filters, I know this works thanks to penn and teller, it will at least get some of the extras out of there.

    Gaston
    Last edited by kantofox; 25th April 2011 at 04:36 AM. Reason: Already up there =p

  21. #21

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    How you doing Dcampen,

    IRT your last note, where can I find the regs on where the federal law actually supercedes the state laws on regulating the sale or production of perfumes made with beverage grade alcohol?

    r/
    Jerod
    Email: waterzrunlow@gmail.com

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen View Post
    This is not a problem, Federal law supercedes state laws and specifically exempts fragrances made with beverage grade alcohol from being regulated by state alcoholic beverage laws.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Just to clarify one technical point: food grade alcohol and vodka are the same thing by definition - the only exception to that would be if ethanol was made from a petrochemical source and purified to such a degree as to be fit for consumption and that would be a very expensive way to go about it - in practice almost all ethanol is made by fermentation with the concentration being increased by means of distillation. That's how you make vodka: you might start with grain, potatoes or grapes or indeed anything else, if it's 'food grade' its vodka; if it's vodka it's food grade.

    Good luck with the tincture btw: if you make it right it will be worth so much that paying tax on the alcohol will not make any real difference. I'll be fascinated to hear how you get on.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Ok Sir, now my question is, so technically its legal use vodka or Everclear in the production of ur perfume or cologne? As for me, I'm just starting out with only the basic fragrances but I am trying.to.comeup with something unique and different. Wish me the best of luck with this and thank you so much for the info. If you don't mind me asking, what do you use to make the perfume or colognes scent last longer? Glycerin? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    R/
    Jerod

  24. #24

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    In the UK there is no legal restriction on using vodka to make perfume. The authorities are only interested in ensuring that drinkable alcohol has duty paid on it - once you've paid they don't much mind what you do with it as long as you're not making illegal drugs or explosives . . .

    The legal situation elsewhere in the world may be different, but it's likely that the same principles will apply.

    To make a perfume last longer you use various fixatives. I would not recommend glycerin, though I believe some people do use that. More usually you would include some large molecule, low volatility ingredients in your fragrance blend - things like the musks, ambergris and many of the woods are used for this purpose as well as for their own scent: it's a complex subject in its own right of which a good deal of study has been made. My best advice to you is to experiment and enjoy the learning process.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Oh and I should have been clear that ordinary vodka will be totally useless for perfume making: you need almost pure ethanol. Which may be listed as 95% alc / vol or 180 proof - about 170 proof is the minimum that is useful.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Ok, cool. That's pretty much what I've been doing right now. Thank you so much for all of the advice. My last question is this, is there a specific amount of days or.weeks that you let ur perfumes age before you decide to use them or sell them Sir?

    R/
    Jerod

  27. #27

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    That's a tough question. Most perfumes will continue to improve with age for at least a few weeks, some will benefit from much longer. It partly depends on what you've put in them: light aldehydes and citrus notes are relatively short-lived and don't keep well so a perfume heavy on those is best used fairly fresh. Something using a lot of heavy, long-lived materials like sandalwood, patchouli and olibanum might go on improving for years.

    In general I keep my materials already diluted in ethanol, which minimises blending time and I keep a stock of regular sellers so that they are at least month old when they are sold, but there isn't a hard and fast rule.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Cool, I gotcha Sir. Ive got some.of that sandlewood in.my shop right now. Do you know where I can order fragrances at for wholesale prices? And also is there a printing company there in ur country that make little packets or pouches for 1ml vial samples of ur perfume?

    R/
    Jerod

  29. #29

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    I found a solvent supply company having Ethanol - 95% (with 1% DEP)

    I'm assuming DEP is Diethyl phthalate.

    I'm getting conflicting information here as http://www.basenotes.net/threads/266...micals-Summary says
    Di Ethyl Phthalate (DEP) - An odorless solvent used as a cutter and fixative in
    perfume accords.

    While Wikipedia has "It has a faint, disagreeable odor" and "Several studies suggest that DEP can cause damage to the nervous system as well as to the reproductive organs in males and females." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethyl_phthalate

    Can anyone verify? If it's close to odorless and "safe to use", I'd be enquiring if they do retail sales.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    In the perfume world DEP normally does refer to diethyl phthalate, but I would not be confident it means that elsewhere.

    The thing with Wikipedia is that, whilst there is a great deal of useful and accurate information there, there is also a lot of useless and inaccurate information . . . and although the volunteers do their best to correct the latter it sometimes stays there either unnoticed or flagged as doubtful for years and authors are unnamed and so completely unaccountable for any inaccuracy that may be present.

    In this case, if you follow the links through to the source of the information, you find it is a US government agency that says:

    Diethyl phthalate is a colorless liquid that has a bitter, disagreeable taste. This synthetic substance is commonly used to make plastics more flexible. Products in which it is found include toothbrushes, automobile parts, tools, toys, and food packaging.

    Diethyl phthalate can be released fairly easily from these products, as it is not part of the chain of chemicals (polymers) that makes up the plastic. Diethyl phthalate is also used in cosmetics, insecticides, and aspirin.
    The bold in the above quote was added by me - almost certainly the wiki author simply mis-read taste for odour. DEP is routinely used as a solvent for aroma-chemicals precisely because it has no odour.

    If you follow the link above you will also see the US Government's official view of the health risks associated with DEP - in brief they conclude there is no evidence that there is a significant risk. In this case the wiki author references a small number (3) of studies that indicate that there are risks - what you can't tell is whether these are the only ones and there is a huge body of other studies that show no association, or whether these three are typical studies. My personal view is that the US Government has probably examined the full range of evidence more thoroughly than this wiki author, but certainly it is a matter of controversy.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Thanks for clarifying Chris.

    Have emailed the supply store, hope I receive a positive reply...
    Sourcing for alcohol is such a pain

  32. #32

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Look for the Polish Vodka Spirytus Rektyfikowany 95% if you do it with vodka. It isn't any cheaper in the long run, but you can at least drink it if you don't use it all.

    www.polmoswarszawa.pl

  33. #33

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    I found Diesel (a US-made 190-proof grain alcohol) at a mall for US$100 for 750ml...
    Insane mark-up (maybe due to local alcohol duties).
    Everclear retails in the US for US$20 or so?

    I shall think very.... hard before committing....
    The solvent company didn't even reply...

  34. #34

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    I bought 5 gallons pure ethyl alcohol 190 or 195 grain/proof for making herbal tinctures back in 2001. You need to get a alcohol permit form your state, Maine Dept. Public Safety, Licensing and Inspection Unit-Liquor the phone and fax is 207-624-8745; fax 207-6348767 you will need a fax if you want to have them send you the application back to them and to fax the alcohol company back with the required paperwork. You do not need a business license to get a alcohol permit if you are tincturing herbs etc. Might be so if you were to open a drinking establishment. I can not remember what I paid for the 5 gallons of alcohol maybe $190.00 but I do know most cost was the tax you are charged as the slcohol was fairly cheap.

  35. #35

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Everclear is 190 prooof and the only state near Maine that it is available is New Hampshire.

  36. #36

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Vie-Del out of Fresno California has 169 proof unaged grape alcohol. Prices back in 2001 were 5 gallon polys @ $15 per proof F.O.B. Fresno and 56 gallon drums @ $9.00 per proof F.O.B. Fresno. It also states if you are not a bonded winery then a additional $13.50 per proof is charged for the distilled spirits charge. The phone number and fax if anyone interested is; ph; 559-834-2525, fax 559-834-1384
    Aaper they are out of Kentucky and the phone # where I bought the 5 gallons 195 proof is 800-456-1017. fax 502-633-0685.
    Posting this if anyone wants the info....

  37. #37

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Thanks trade!

  38. #38

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    Look for the Polish Vodka Spirytus Rektyfikowany 95% if you do it with vodka. It isn't any cheaper in the long run, but you can at least drink it if you don't use it all.

    www.polmoswarszawa.pl

    I like your thinking mumsy. Some times you need a little carrier for the "creative juices" lol

  39. #39

    Default Re: Food grade Alcohol/Ethanol/UNdenaturated Ethanol etc. where to buy ?

    Ambergris

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