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  1. #91
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by Asha View Post
    It is newest release EDP, very fresh from the Guerlain boutique in Las Vegas (purchased 11/08).
    Ok, good. I was wondering about this bread note. I'm not sure I've ever noticed that. I think the EDP is the best, richer than the EDT (modern). I think the secret to these may be the dry-down. They are so beautiful when they have a chance to mellow. What I love about them is they have so much life and depth. There's always a snappy catch, or hook to hold the scent and keep it from being too sweet or dull. For me, the successful chypre has a slightly tangy, sharp green sap element that keeps it edgy.

    I wonder if those who are missing the peach are expecting it to be sweet, because it isn't. It's spiced, sappy & woody. It doesn't really jump out, either, it is artfully intertwined. The parfum is the smoothest of all. The vintage (parfum) is significantly deeper, almost like a balsamic peachy wine.
    Last edited by kumquat; 8th March 2009 at 08:53 PM.
    Currently wearing: French Cancan by Caron

  2. #92

    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by Asha View Post
    No.19 indeed has oakmoss. I have the new release EDT, and it states oakmoss in the ingredients. I have vintage parfum and the oakmoss is clearly detectable even though it does not have an ingredients list on the box.
    No.19 has gone a mandatory reformulation as well. Back in the 70s it had oakmoss but since the implementation of the new laws, oakmoss has been banned for fragrance use in the EU. By the end of 2005, most if not all all fragrances have been reformulated.
    Any fragrance that states that has oakmoss is breaking the law within the union.
    The old formula has a dark green colour, and the new one is lighter and yellower with a light green tint.
    The official new notes are (by Chanel, Paris): galbanum, hyacinth, bergamot, jasmine, rose, lily of the valley, iris, vetiver, sandalwood, leather and musk.

    Maybe the new one has less than 0,1% moss and they stll want to call it oakmoss instead? That being the case, the common sense in the fragrance world is to add as "ingredient" any substance that has more than 5% concentration in the original formula (not inlcuding alcohol).

    Coincidentally, The IFF now sells a couple of oakmoss smell alikes: one being Iso Butyl Quinoline. It's been used in many scents that used oakmoss before.
    Last edited by castorpollux; 8th March 2009 at 09:04 PM.

  3. #93
    Asha's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    Casorpollux...so, I'm still not sure how you can say it is not a chypre due to no oakmoss. I suppose you can split hairs and say that the new No.19 is not and the old one is.

    Anyway, there must be some reason other than oakmoss content as to why No.19 is not considered a chypre.

    Incidentally, I have a very new bottle of Mitsouko, and it also states "tree moss" in the ingredient list.
    Last edited by Asha; 8th March 2009 at 09:19 PM.

  4. #94
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    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    I wonder if those who are missing the peach are expecting it to be sweet, because it isn't. It's spiced, sappy & woody. It doesn't really jump out, either, it is artfully intertwined. The parfum is the smoothest of all. The vintage (parfum) is significantly deeper, almost like a balsamic peachy wine.
    I agree on the peach note--it is more like a dried peach than a fresh, juicy one. However, I must say the peach is not terribly prominent in the EDT even though I do smell it there too.

  5. #95
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    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    I am making this a Chypre weekend so I am wearing Cabochard today.
    Evenstar

  6. #96

    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    Hang on, let's get this right - as far as I understand oakmoss has not been banned; its use is just severely restricted. It is not toxic, but it is a known skin sensitiser.

  7. #97
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    I have trouble with the new #19. Soooo sad! I'm bummed. I just discovered this and they ruin it. Luckily I scrounged 2 older EDP's from flea bay. That formula is smoky, dry leather. A bit like Cabochard but a little more floral & green.
    Last edited by kumquat; 8th March 2009 at 10:08 PM.
    Currently wearing: French Cancan by Caron

  8. #98

    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    I wore La Via del Profumo's Oakmoss yesterday and today. Soft wonderful oakmoss and not much else.

  9. #99

    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    I had a mini breakthrough earlier today! Was doing my usual..sniffing fragrance while watching a movie (Watchmen, for the SECOND time--it's a little odd sniffing little vials of perfume while blood and guts are flying but it works for me!) and I actually identified a fragrance that smelled, perhaps at least in a teeny tiny way, like a chypre! Good grief! It was the newly reformulated L de Lubin, which luckyscent describes as having a 'chypre vibe." This was a thrilling moment for me and I just had to share!

  10. #100
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    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    Lizzie, that is exciting! I totally agree with you on L de Lubin. I think it smells alot like Diorella which IS a chypre
    Last edited by Asha; 9th March 2009 at 01:08 AM.

  11. #101

    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoRoads View Post
    I'd be glad to.

    Here's a few:
    Derby
    Chanel pour Monsieur
    Tiffany for Men
    Giorgio for Men
    Devin
    Macassar
    Aramis
    Bulgari Black
    Town & Country

    Thank you very much, now I have an idea of what a chypre smells like. I've tried Aramis and Bvlgari Black

  12. #102

    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    I realize that this discussion is probably over but, if not, would someone please explain to me how this fragrance can be classified as a chypre? Thanks.
    Bvlgari Black
    * Top Notes
    * Lapsang Souchang Tea, Bergamot, Jasmine.
    * Middle Notes
    * Cedar, Sandalwood, Leather.
    * Base Notes
    * Amber, Musk, Vanilla.
    "Ointment and perfume rejoice the heart: so doth the sweetness of a man's friend by hearty counsel."

  13. #103
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    Frankly, that is one I don't consider a chypre, either. It is a tea scent & there is a floral aspect with it. It is some form of floral/oriental maybe?
    Last edited by kumquat; 12th March 2009 at 03:21 PM.
    Currently wearing: French Cancan by Caron

  14. #104
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    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by analavande View Post
    I realize that this discussion is probably over but, if not, would someone please explain to me how this fragrance can be classified as a chypre? Thanks.
    Bvlgari Black
    * Top Notes
    * Lapsang Souchang Tea, Bergamot, Jasmine.
    * Middle Notes
    * Cedar, Sandalwood, Leather.
    * Base Notes
    * Amber, Musk, Vanilla.
    I don't consider it a chypre and Susan Irvine has it categorised as a smoky Oriental. May be it is one of those "new chypres" whose only real validation is that they have an earthy (sometimes mossy) woody powdery drydown....
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  15. #105
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    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    Moondeva, what is up with these so called "New Chypres"? Those I've tried have been a big disappointment. What is the supposed justification or classification for these concoctions? Do you know?
    Currently wearing: French Cancan by Caron

  16. #106

    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    Kumquat and Moondeva,

    Thank you. Neither do I consider BLV Black (or many of the 'new chypres' ) to be a chypre. In fact, I have trouble accepting anything that does not fit the traditional criteria. At the very least a fragrance should have a bergamot or citrus top with oakmoss, and/or amber/labdanum/patchouli in the base. That's just my opinion, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    Frankly, that is one I don't consider a chypre, either. It is a tea scent & there is a floral aspect with it. It is some form of floral/oriental maybe?
    Quote Originally Posted by moondeva View Post
    I don't consider it a chypre and Susan Irvine has it categorised as a smoky Oriental. May be it is one of those "new chypres" whose only real validation is that they have an earthy (sometimes mossy) woody powdery drydown....
    "Ointment and perfume rejoice the heart: so doth the sweetness of a man's friend by hearty counsel."

  17. #107
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    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    I had no idea Bvlgari Black was supposed to be considered a chypre. I have both Amarige Mariage and Narciso Rodriguez for Her edp, and I don't understand the "new chypre" thing much at all. "Chypre" I get easily. I few days ago I sampled 24 Faubourg and immediately said, "Ah, it's a chypre!" I don't see labdanum or oakmoss in the notes, but I don't put much stock into listed notes these days anyway. However, when something smells like a chypre you just know, you know? Caleche, Knowing, Safari, Paloma Picasso, Agent Provocateur, No 19-- they all have a common vibe going on that says "chypre" to me.

    Lots of people are deathly allergic to peanuts, but you don't hear about world-wide bans on the use of peanuts in food preparation. Grr.
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  18. #108

    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    It's no wonder that the chypre category is a big mystery for relative newbies like yours truly! Here are three of my favorite fragrances that I saw on a long list of chypres somewhere online. What do you think? Do they qualify as modern chypres?

    Miller Harris FLEURS DE SEL: Red Thyme Oil, Rosemary, Clary Sage, Iris Nobilis, Narcissus, Rose, Ambrette Seed, Woods, Vetiver, Moss, Leather

    Miller Harris TERRE D'IRIS: Bergamot, Bitter Orange, Southern Herbs, Rosemary, Clary Sage, Orange Flowers, Rose, Patchouli, Tree Moss, Fir Balsam, Iris

    Keiko Mecheri UME: Persimmon, Peach Leaves, Citrus, Wisteria, Peony, Jasmine, Osmanthus, Hinoki, Mahogany, Moss

    I'm thinking the last two qualify, based on the notes. The FdS doesn't have the (apparently) requisite citrus. On the other hand, it seems to have some of the feel and character of some of the classic chypres that I was lucky enough to try last weekend.

    Comments?

  19. #109
    Asha's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    I think the fruity chypre category (other than Mitsouko, of course) is one of the more difficult ones. Smelling something mossy and green or mossy and leathery is very obvious, but mossy and fruity doesn't always come across to my nose. And I think fruity chypres are where most of the "modern" ones are aiming.

    Perhaps also, if some of the new chypres use synthetic oakmoss they will be unrecognizable as chypres. Synthetic oakmoss smells NOTHING like real.

  20. #110
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    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    I just received Mitsouko edt in the mail yesterday. It was my first blind buy, and let me just say that now I know what all the fuss is about! Love it.

    It reminds me very much of the Caron base.
    Last edited by Sunnyfunny; 13th March 2009 at 04:02 AM.

  21. #111

    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by castorpollux View Post
    No.19 has gone a mandatory reformulation as well. Back in the 70s it had oakmoss but since the implementation of the new laws, oakmoss has been banned for fragrance use in the EU. By the end of 2005, most if not all all fragrances have been reformulated.
    Any fragrance that states that has oakmoss is breaking the law within the union.
    The old formula has a dark green colour, and the new one is lighter and yellower with a light green tint.
    The official new notes are (by Chanel, Paris): galbanum, hyacinth, bergamot, jasmine, rose, lily of the valley, iris, vetiver, sandalwood, leather and musk.

    Maybe the new one has less than 0,1% moss and they stll want to call it oakmoss instead? That being the case, the common sense in the fragrance world is to add as "ingredient" any substance that has more than 5% concentration in the original formula (not inlcuding alcohol).

    Coincidentally, The IFF now sells a couple of oakmoss smell alikes: one being Iso Butyl Quinoline. It's been used in many scents that used oakmoss before.
    Thanks for this info on the reformulation, C.

    Chanel 19 seems to be an especially tricky case, but I'm trying to understand where the use of real oak moss fits in in describing a perfume today. I wish i had asked about his 2 days ago at the Osmotheuqe. I have a 3-hour perfume course tomorrow morning, I'll see fi I can find out more.

    These are the questions that come to mind:

    -If oakmoss were completely banned, and if only real oak moss counted, wouldn't that mean there is no such thing as a chypre made after the law took effect?

    -If there is no oak moss in a perfume--does it matter, as long as the oakmoss scent has been recreated?

    ---and If we don't count the synthetic or otherwise recreated oak moss note, then likewise, wouldn't we have to say that Diroissomo is not a muguet?
    Last edited by Nostalgie; 13th March 2009 at 08:36 AM.
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  22. #112

    Default Re: All Invited! ♥ ♥ ♥ Sniff 'n' Speak Saturday, March 7, 2009 ★★★ Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgie View Post
    Thanks for this info on the reformulation, C.

    Chanel 19 seems to be an especially tricky case, but I'm trying to understand where the use of real oak moss fits in in describing a perfume today. I wish i had asked about his 2 days ago at the Osmotheuqe. I have a 3-hour perfume course tomorrow morning, I'll see if can find out more.

    These are the questions that come to mind:

    -If oakmoss were completely banned, and if only real oak moss counted, wouldn't that mean there is no such thing as a chypre made after the law took effect?

    -If there is no oak moss in a perfume--does it matter, as long as the oakmoss scent has been recreated?

    ---and If we don't count the synthetic or otherwise recreated oak moss note, then likewise, wouldn't we have to say that Diroissomo is not a muguet?
    Please do let us know what you find out. Especially the newbies(myself included) who are struggling so to get a grasp. Thanks
    "Ointment and perfume rejoice the heart: so doth the sweetness of a man's friend by hearty counsel."

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