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  1. #31

    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    I think Azzaro PH was a big hit in the U.S. back in the 1980's. It was introduced in 1978, but Department stores featured it in the 1980's. It just went out of style here. It has made a comeback recently but mostly being sold off the discount shelves in TJ Maxx or through other mainstream lower level stores such as Target etc.

    Weren't the advertising images marketed with Azzaro always showing the European ideal of masculinity more than the US ideal of masculinity? If you look at all the images associated with the fragrance they were always dark haired, open shirted macho men that looked European (Spanish or Italian) in style. Azzaro is essentially a European fragrance that also sells in the U.S. I think.

    I don't think it has anything to do with Europe being ahead of the U.S. in trends or anything like that. Azzaro has always had a mediterranean feel to it - to me.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    If its a hit in Europe, then Europeans got taste! :-)
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  3. #33

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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stereotomy View Post
    I think it has more to do with marketing than with anything else. Sure, a scent must smell at least passable/good, but marketing is what drives 99.99% of the people to purchase a scent. Don't think of yourselves, think of Joe Sixpack in Sephora.
    Joe Sixpack buys his fragrance at wal-mart.

    Actually, his wife probably buys it at wal-mart.

    And she buys these:
    Quote Originally Posted by andylama View Post
    Old Spice, Brut,

  4. #34

    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    The Jonas brothers are on Kimmel Live... all three are wearing tight jeans and two are wearing long scarves.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    I could be wrong, but I think Azzaro PH was an immediate hit when it came out in 1978. I think that men who were teenagers, or in their early 20's back then just kept re-buying it when their bottles ran out. Over time it developed a loyal following to the point where these men, now in their 40's & 50's still enjoy the product to this day. I doubt that it is a "top seller" anymore, but I'm willing to bet that it still sells quite well and won't be discontinued anytime soon...

    It's hard to believe, but AdG is already 12 years old. I don't think it's so far fetched that in 20 years men will still be buying this in droves....

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    It never occurred to me that Azzaro Homme would be perceived as über-masculine. It is way too refined for that.

    Ditto.
    I bought a cheap bottle of it recently, and put it back in its box. It's a bit lacking in presence for my taste.
    Renato

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by karisuma View Post
    It seems a bit puzzling to me why Europeans seem to be on the edge of new fashion, and yet they, as you say, in general prefer older-smelling scents. Why do you think that is?
    Nostalgia perhaps?

    Personally, if it smells good, it's timeless so whether it was made in 1980 or 2009, if it smells right, it always will.

    And as for Brut, it's still up there as one of the biggest sellers in Europe, and you don't get more "masculine" than that!

  8. #38

    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    I'd be pulling out my hair over this thread if it weren't that funny Some posts read like "the Europeans" are some strange sort of Martians coming from Neptune.

    If we agree that the fashion at least in Europe right now involves a good dose of 80s (vibrant colors, tight jeans, converse shoes etc), then it would be only consequential to wear a corresponding fragrance. The only problem is that whenever I smell someones fragrance it's current fresh'n'fruity dreck. So no, Azzaro isn't the big hit.


    /closed.
    Last edited by fakepurseninja; 10th March 2009 at 09:02 PM.

  9. #39

    Talking Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    I would bet that the numbers do not reflect purchases made at Marshalls...
    I picked one up last month for 14.99.
    Last edited by scentaddiction; 10th March 2009 at 09:15 PM.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snafoo View Post
    I hope you're not basing your entire argument on that one table you linked. It's not even sourced! Most popular according to who? An online retailer?

    But let's go with the table anyway, for argument's sake. Here are the stats:


    Let's throw out Eau Sauvage because, well, Europeans have good taste and shouldn't be penalized for it. Frankly, I don't see much difference in release dates between the two.

    Average release date for Europe: 1991.25.
    Average release date for U.S.: 1990.5.
    Good point. I remember reading in Chandler Burr's recent book where he was discusing the top 20 liss for the US and France ( i'm pretty sure it is France, and not Europe...I could be wrong). Aside from Sauvage, I think the two lists are pretty much just as "bad".

    But I do think Azzaro PH was # 1 ( in France) and this was from 2003. This is 6 years now, but I would want to believe Azzaro PH is still in top 20 at least.

    I really wish someone could get us the whole "List". As in, the top 200 sellers for each year in masculines.

  11. #41

    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snafoo View Post
    I hope you're not basing your entire argument on that one table you linked. It's not even sourced! Most popular according to who? An online retailer
    I assumed it was common knowledge that Azzaro PH is, and I quote verbatim from the notes on its Basenotes.net page: "one of Europe's biggest sellers." But I guess it wasn't that common of a knowledge.
    Last edited by karisuma; 11th March 2009 at 12:07 AM.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by karisuma View Post
    I assumed it was common knowledge that Azzaro PH is, and I quote verbatim from the notes on its Basenotes.net page: "one of Europe's biggest sellers." But I guess it wasn't that common of a knowledge.
    The basenotes directory is not infallible. In fact, it is highly possible that your quote is based on that very same link you gave in your second post, as those besteseller lists are ominously rare (if we leave obvious machinations such as the douglas top ten out of the game).

    Given Azzaro phs ubiquity I have no doubt that it is a _relatively_ popular scent, but that doesn't make it "a hit in europe".

  13. #43

    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by fakepurseninja View Post
    The basenotes directory is not infallible. In fact, it is highly possible that your quote is based on that very same link you gave in your second post, as those besteseller lists are ominously rare (if we leave obvious machinations such as the douglas top ten out of the game).
    If we can't trust the Basenotes directory or a list from a website, then how do we know that AdG or Cool Water or Fahrenheit are best sellers? Do we know anything is actually a best seller or did people just assume they are?

    By the way, just because one sees a few people (out of ~ 6 billion total people) wearing a perfume doesn't make it a best seller either.
    Last edited by karisuma; 11th March 2009 at 11:37 AM.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    I understand it's nice but I can't get my head around it's popularity.
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  15. #45

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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by karisuma View Post
    I assumed it was common knowledge that Azzaro PH is, and I quote verbatim from the notes on its Basenotes.net page: "one of Europe's biggest sellers." But I guess it wasn't that common of a knowledge.
    I have no doubts that the quoted statement has been correct at a certain time in the past. Azzaro pour Homme seemed to have always existed, but I originally ignored it when I owned no more than three perfumes at a time. It's only been after 2003 when I became more of a freak that I discovered the beauty of Azzaro pour Homme (and many more perfumes all within less than a year). By that time it smelled like a classic to me. By then I had also learned not to pay too much attention to a perfume's opening blast which is fairly strong here. How a perfume smells after the first 15 to 30 minutes is really all that matters to me.

    According to older records ApH was a hit in France in 2003, and nowadays it is still popular enough for people to know its name. Ellena fan boy and fragrance journalist Chandler Burr is known for not thinking much of masculine perfumes in general. He wrote about the Brand Azzaro extensively. For Chrome he created the additional fragrance class of “zero stars”, named “Do not inhale”, and he wrote about it in a NYT article Men smelling badly’ (November 2007).
    In The Perfect Scent/Henry Holt/2008 pp147/48 he wrote: <quote:>American men had, overall, bad taste . Interestingly, French men had even worse taste. The 2003 French masculines list looked like this:

    • 1 Le Male
    • 2 Eau Sauvage
    • 3 Azzaro Pour Homme
    • 4 Allure Homme
    • 5 Fahrenheit
    • 6 Chrome
    • 7 Boss, Hugo Boss
    • 8 Habit Rouge
    • 9 Hugo
    • 10 A*Men
    • 11 1881
    • 12 Acqua di Gio Homme
    • 13 Biotherm Man
    • 14 XS
    • 15 Egoiste
    • 16 Kenzo Homme
    • 17 Boss in Motion
    • 18 Kouros
    • 19 L’Eau d’Issey Homme
    • 20 Higher …. <end quote>

    He also quoted Ellena, hopefully correctly, calling Azzaro pH (and Paco Rabanne pH) the epitomes of the 70s era: << …heavy on rosemary, lavender, thyme, the smell of the Mediterranean, but done in such a way that made the seventies really ‘parfums de camioneurs’, truck driver scents. …Brut de Fabergé. Men dare perfume themselves! Virile, not Elitist!...>> (p 251) And boy, does Burr himself demonstrate condescension using some newly acquired knowledge in a scene with ‘the small Arab guy’ who checks bags at Orly airport (pp. 96-97)! Would I need to mention what the 'small guy' was wearing ?

    It’s always a matter of application, too, and people who started using perfume when the spray system was less common still know how to apply perfume in small doses. Maybe newer style aquas and watered down originals are also responsible for carefree application of perfumes nowadays.
    Last edited by narcus; 11th March 2009 at 01:27 PM.

  16. #46

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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Azzaro was a best seller in Brazil in the 80s and 90s and nowadays it's still a big seller, but as said before, it's also considered as a classic, an old man fragrance.
    I still own a bottle and when I wear it, I remember of my early days when I was young and wanted to be seen as a grown up man...

  17. #47

    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    I don't know Europe nor USA but here in Brazil Azzaro is THE top seller for sure.

  18. #48
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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    In Latin America's Southern Cone (Chile, Argentina and Uruguay) Azzaro pH was a big hit during the early eighties. So, wearing it is some sort of statement on long times gone by, justlike Paco Rabanne and Kouros.

  19. #49

    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    The Douglas top 10 in Germany:
    http://www.douglas.de/douglas/index_c0104.html

    Let me just point out that it is totally pointless to talk about "Europe" as if it were a cultural entity, despite certain commmon (global!) cultural trends. Perhaps you are referring to a certain international metropolitan style (which has its national/continental varieties).
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  20. #50

    Smile Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    The Douglas top 10 in Germany:
    http://www.douglas.de/douglas/index_c0104.html

    Let me just point out that it is totally pointless to talk about "Europe" as if it were a cultural entity, despite certain commmon (global!) cultural trends. Perhaps you are referring to a certain international metropolitan style (which has its national/continental varieties).
    I *really* suspect those top 10s are not entirely based on sale figures alone. Note that they never said that those top 10s *are* based on ssale figures.

    Methinks they are also used for marketing purposes, to push certain fragrances, by giving it a place in the top 10.

    Let's face it, most newbees or people who are not into scents are totally clueless when walking into a store, and such top 10s are really helpful to guide (and steer!) them.
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  21. #51
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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    ...Let me just point out that it is totally pointless to talk about "Europe" as if it were a cultural entity,
    That is why remarks like "I have been to Europe" inspires me questions like "where to, Tirana? Or Kosovo?

    Talking about Europe is like refering to any African country as "Africa" and any Latin American country as "Latin America" - everything down there should be like Mexico or Brazil, but no, it is not like thay: take Surinam. It is in Latin America, and it is full of blacks, indians from India and Chinese, while in Argentina there are plenty of Spaniards and Italians, as well as the second biggest jewish community outside Israel, while in Chile there are many Germans and English, and in Bolivia there are plenty of amerindians. What about Europe? There is England and France: and as a matter of fact, shouldn't all of the countries in continental Europe be like France, while the ones in Central Europe just like Germany and the ones in the east like Russia?

    So far for stereotypes. Yes, indeed, they make perceptions simpler, but no, they do not reflect reality at all. So I guess we should be aware that generalizations are a "no fly".
    Last edited by Pollux; 11th March 2009 at 04:00 PM.

  22. #52

    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by karisuma View Post
    If we can't trust the Basenotes directory or a list from a website, then how do we know that AdG or Cool Water or Fahrenheit are best sellers? Do we know anything is actually a best seller or did people just assume they are?

    By the way, just because one sees a few people (out of ~ 6 billion total people) wearing a perfume doesn't make it a best seller either.
    Exactly, as long as there is no proof in the form of , say, LVMHs sales records, everything is based on assumptions. Heaps of people on this board complaining about smelling AdG everywhere leads one to the assumption that AdG is (still) a big hit. But it will remain an assumption until Giorgio gives us sales figures. Some top ten or another is - in my view - a less reliable source, because it has a higher probability to be fabricated, and thus leads to assuming the wrong things. Even more so if the source is outdated.

    Average consumer like popular stuff, and popularity lists reduce the awful complexity of this still oh-so-effeminate leisure activity. That's why they are powerful marketing tools, which in turn means that they are biased. Not that BN isn't biased too.....

  23. #53
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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    The Douglas top 10 in Germany:
    http://www.douglas.de/douglas/index_c0104.html

    Let me just point out that it is totally pointless to talk about "Europe" as if it were a cultural entity, despite certain commmon (global!) cultural trends. Perhaps you are referring to a certain international metropolitan style (which has its national/continental varieties).
    That's an interesting list. Do they have a list for all their European stores?

    Fascinating that Joop Hoome sells for 64 Euro for a big bottle - the same bottle is found all over the place for between A$40 to A$49 (20 to 25 Euros) down here, sometimes including a big bottle of aftershave splash as well.
    Renato
    Last edited by Renato; 11th March 2009 at 04:56 PM.

  24. #54

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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    more on statistiscs:

    <<Did you know that the Top 10 best-selling perfumes in France are all French? And the top-selling fragrance in America, Estée Lauder’s Beautiful, is practically unknown in Europe. It’s true that tastes on the two shores of the Atlantic are quite different: American women appreciate floral accords, where French, Italian and German women have less-floral tastes, and much greater interest in orientals. As a rule, the Top 10 doesn’t change much from one year to the next (Chanel N° 5 dates back to 1921, Beautiful to 1985, Shalimar to 1925 and Eau Sauvage to 1966) and new launches don’t have an easy time breaking in.
    But we have been noticing some changes lately. The very conservative French men’s market, for instance, has seen a few rising stars, like Terre d’Hermès, YSL L’Homme and probably Diesel’s Fuel For Life. Elsewhere, particularly in the USA, fresh new scents have been chipping away at the supremacy of the best-selling Acqua di Gio pour Homme. And in the American women’s standings so far this year, Coco Mademoiselle (Chanel) and Light Blue (Dolce & Gabanna) have stolen the crown from the reigning champion, Beautiful. The classics will undoubtedly come up with a way to defend their turf. Who knows, maybe with a new ad campaign, or a new face? >>


    quoted from "Trends" in Osmoz / English version / June 23, 2008

    Sephora France / current bestsellers:

    Hugo Boss Boss Signature

    Jean Paul Gaultier "LE MALE" Eau de Toilette

    Paco Rabanne 1 Million

    Dior Dior Homme Sport

    Armani Acqua Di Giò pour Homme


    I think there is a reason why top 10 lists for Europe are practically non-existent. There are not even reliable hit lists for European countries. To my knowledge Douglas Germany and even Sephora France do not offer all masculine perfumes available on the market. Consequently some will be pushed more than others. Could it be that shops have temporarily a higher margin on new releases? Pushing those is more than obvious even after the free sample period is over.
    Last edited by narcus; 12th March 2009 at 05:26 AM.
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  25. #55
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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentaddiction View Post
    I would bet that the numbers do not reflect purchases made at Marshalls...
    I picked one up last month for 14.99.
    You're right, from what I understand and have read, they don't reflect purchases made at discount shops like Marshalls.

  26. #56

    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    I think I have to agree that us American just loose interest in things and move on to what is new and trendy. I can see how Azzaro and Kouros might have been popular in the 80's but interest have since moved on to other things.

    Look how in the early 90's how popular Tommy was and Joop! and now your luck if you can find a few bottles hidden in the back shelf of the fragrance department.....

    I will add that for the life of me I can not warm up to Azzaro Pour Homme - it is just too sharp and herbal for my taste.

  27. #57
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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentimus View Post
    I think I have to agree that us American just loose interest in things and move on to what is new and trendy. I can see how Azzaro and Kouros might have been popular in the 80's but interest have since moved on to other things.

    Look how in the early 90's how popular Tommy was and Joop! and now your luck if you can find a few bottles hidden in the back shelf of the fragrance department.....
    I respectfully disagree. Joop! is still somewhat popular. Mind you, I don't live in America, but for fragrances I sort of feel the two countries ( Canada & US) are somewhat similar.

    I really think it all comes down to people buying what is most heavily advertised and what is most made available and visible in malls/stores. I don't think it is that Americans are more trendy or loose interest in things, especially with fragrances.

    I really need to give Azzaro pH another try. I can vaguely remember it. I really have not been too crazy for this "house" or label.
    Last edited by Surfacing; 12th March 2009 at 03:45 AM.

  28. #58

    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Although few of my friends love to wear it, I think it has the status, if not as much of a best-seller, then, at least, a "confirmed classic" in Europe, since it's hard to be overlooked, even by the fragrance lovers who don't use or wear this one.

  29. #59
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    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by karisuma View Post
    It also seems to me the current trend has taken masculinity away from many European guys; instead they're now wearing tight jeans and colorful scarfs while American guys are still wearing a t-shirt and classic Levi's jeans.
    Not sure what age group you're referring to, but I wear tight jeans and scarves (when its cold enough!), and I'm a straight American guy. Granted, some of those skinnies are Levi's, classic style modernized :-p

  30. #60

    Default Re: Why is Azzaro PH a hit in Europe?

    I also think that one of the basic reasons is that the current trend in the US for the past decade has been for fresh scents. The young(er) generation (<40 yo) in the US buys stuff from the "Eternity" era onwards. Heavy, spicy scents like Azzaro just aren't in.

    While this is true of Europe as well, it's less so -- Europeans aren't as taken with the fresh trend quite as much. So proportionately I think the more traditionally masculine scents make up a bigger portion of sales.

    Digging one level down from this generalization: I'm willing to bet that in both geographies, it's the older crowd that buys the heavier, masculine stuff like Azzaro -- as someone else has noted, these are such iconic scent that people who were in their twenties when it came out probably have continued buying it to this day. Many people don't change their habits. But in the US, the same market that's cornered by Azzaro, Paco and Kouros in Europe is cornered by Polo, Halston and Grey Flannel. So I think a more interesting comparison would be to compare the market for the 70s scents segment more generally, rather than one random one.

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