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  1. #1

    Default Perfumery is NOT going to die.

    I actually need to rethink about this issue. Come back later
    Last edited by scentophile; 6th April 2009 at 09:22 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die. IFRA helps creativity.

    I like your take on the issue, and am glad to see you are taking a 'when life gives you lemons, make lemonade' stance. However, you are seeing it from a different perspective, that of someone in the industry (though I know you are also an avid fragrance aficionado). To the consumer, especially one passionate about fragrance, it's just plain disheartening. There's no guarantee that perfumers being forced to think outside the box will result in better perfumes, but you can be sure that all these restrictions are resulting in watered down, inferior versions of our beloved classics.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die. IFRA helps creativity.

    Absolutely. I speak from a different perspective. But I hope more people spend the energy to fight for creation than stupid restrictions that will never stop coming.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die. IFRA helps creativity.

    Alex, that is an interesting perspective but I'm afraid it is one from a production end rather than a comsumption end. It may we'll be an interesting challange for you to find ways to simulate oakmoss in a fragrance but the simple fact is that the replacements just do not smell as good. For me the quality of the compostion is important but on its own it is shallow - it must be backed with good, complex, rich ingredients to hold my attention for more than a few minutes. For me this usualy means at least some naturals - citrus, florals, moss, resins. The modern, completely synthetic fragrances seem to lack this. I love citrus frgarances. These will surely be ruined?Life without decent Eau de Cologne will be so much poorer. I love moss too.....and rose and ...so many things. I fear that all I will be left with will be chemical soups. I think perfumery will retreat more and more into functional areas and fine fragrance will fade.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

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  5. #5

    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die. IFRA helps creativity.

    I have not heard it suggested that one cannot do perfumery without oakmoss. That is not the key issue in the debate. Whether the new regulation promotes innovation in the sense of compelling perfumers to find ways of replacing the strictly regulated ingredients is also not the central the issue in the debate. Do we need IFRA’s regulations to be the engine of innovation? True, JC Ellena can practice his calling in the context of the new regulations. So can other perfumers. The central question is whether the new regulations are supported by legitimate health concerns and, if so, whether these concerns can be addressed in ways that do not unduly restrict the use of ingredients that have been at the core of celebrated accords in perfume history.
    Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard are sweeter. (Keats)


  6. #6

    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die. IFRA helps creativity.

    Quote Originally Posted by uli View Post
    I have not heard it suggested that one cannot do perfumery without oakmoss. That is not the key issue in the debate. Whether the new regulation promotes innovation in the sense of compelling perfumers to find ways of replacing the strictly regulated ingredients is also not the central the issue in the debate. Do we need IFRA’s regulations to be the engine of innovation? True, JC Ellena can practice his calling in the context of the new regulations. So can other perfumers. The central question is whether the new regulations are supported by legitimate health concerns and, if so, whether these concerns can be addressed in ways that do not unduly restrict the use of ingredients that have been at the core of celebrated accords in perfume history.
    Thanks for bringing me back to the real issue. Let me regather my thoughts.
    Last edited by scentophile; 6th April 2009 at 08:17 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die. IFRA helps creativity.

    A good read. Perfumery will not be dead, but if fragrances I adore now cease to be available as such and the new ones to replace them do not rise to their level of excellence, I could see my interest and consumption of fragrance to die down. To think 5 years ago I owned two bottles; now over 20.

    If the best citrus of the future smells like the typical generic citrus of many designer scents, I will no longer be interested in that sector. I am wearing Acqua di Parma Colonia today. I absolutely love it in its current form (realizing it may have been different years ago). What will it smell like in 2012 when I need a new bottle? I don't know.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die. IFRA helps creativity.

    It does seem important to continue to be open to new stuff, whether changes in fashion are driven by taste or by politics. But I'm still very disappointed in this ongoing trend.
    Last edited by Strollyourlobster; 6th April 2009 at 08:27 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die. IFRA helps creativity.

    Quote Originally Posted by joxer96 View Post
    I like your take on the issue, and am glad to see you are taking a 'when life gives you lemons, make lemonade' stance.
    Yes life gives us lemons, and then the governments say that lemons are bad. lol.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die.

    I have over 300 bottles of scent and at least a quarter of those I tried to backup, I saw the industry changing over 10 years ago (while working for Guerlain).
    I think this will be the death knell of the fragrances that are considered "classics"; ones done in the "Grand French Tradition" [that is], which is on its deathbed awaiting last unctions.
    I can tell the difference in quality from vintage to modern, the term someone used "chemical soups" comes to mind.
    The point is I have some fragrances which are from differing decades, but the same scents, that smell so different from the "original". It brings to mind how a story told 20 times over loses its essence and becomes distorted at best, or worse it becomes a completely different tale.
    I appreciate the optimism of the thread, but I am a realist.
    Furthermore, over the past month or so I have been receiving sample of new scents, from some wonderful friends, but I have not found any that really take-my-breath-away. They are static at best, linear next best, or just all over the place like a paint factory explosion; try to find the purple pansy # 113 after that This being without the restrictions fully in place. What horrours will my poor olfactory system have to face when I sniff something this time next year.
    Again, I understand that hope springs eternal, but there is a point when we have to admit: The castle walls have been breached and the enemy within.
    Last edited by Brielle87; 6th April 2009 at 10:55 PM.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser ŕ sa source

  11. #11

    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die. IFRA helps creativity.

    Quote Originally Posted by joxer96 View Post
    but you can be sure that all these restrictions are resulting in watered down, inferior versions of our beloved classics.
    That's not a certainty, more of a self fulfilling prophecy. If people think that the restrictions will result in "watered down inferior versions" then that is what people will smell when they try these new formulations.
    Last edited by surreality; 6th April 2009 at 11:08 PM.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  12. #12

    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die.

    I've smelled the future and it smells like BEYOND PARADISE.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    I've smelled the future and it smells like BEYOND PARADISE.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die. IFRA helps creativity.

    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    That's not a certainty, more of a self fulfilling prophecy. If people think that the restrictions will result in "watered down inferior versions" then that is what people will smell when they try these new formulations.
    It's not a prediction, it's already happened with many classics, whether to save money on ingredients or because of restrictions.

    Alex: I wish you hadn't deleted your original post. You make some very valid points, and even if you rethink things, I think it's important for others to see where you're coming from.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Perfumery is NOT going to die.

    I enjoyed your original post (and I actually decided to think about it for a few days before I came to reply because you made me think. My first knee-jerk reaction was "they killed the classics! Bastards!", but I liked your optimism, sideways thinking and determination).

    I'm taking this topic fairly personally for a number of reasons:

    - One of my biggest red-button (watch me rant for hours) topics is the misleading of consumers. All the marketing smoke and mirrors, all of the things people are now scared of - and why? Because they've been scared by something they read in a magazine, or some website claiming you can get cancer from shampoo.

    - One of my favourite categories of fragrance (side-by-side with florals) is the chypre-family. I have a bottle of oakmoss; lovely, gloopy, delicious oakmoss in my oil set at home. I put it in one of the first perfumes I ever attempted to make from scratch. I love Mitsouko (even the stripped down current version). I also love several of the classics, many of which I no longer wish to own in their current format (and goodness knows what'll happen to them in the future).

    - There are things going on in the food and cosmetics industry that SHOULD be addressed. Like companies being allowed to label their products "natural" when they're not, like companies putting in excessive amounts of preservatives when much less would do (consequence being that everyone's business interests end up damaged in the long run when people develop sensitivities to these preservatives - but hey, it was easier for you to produce a line of shower gel that could sit on the shelf for 7 years rather than look after the consumer's interest).

    - I'm learning about this art right now - I've just got the biggest break of my life, and it's like going to art school and being told, by the way, you can't use any white, yellow or blue. WHAT? Well, maybe that would be an interesting intellectual and creative challenge, and even fun for a while (I can completely see where you were coming from in your original post), but in the end, wouldn't you want to have the forbidden colours? Just to see what you could do with them? I know I would.

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