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  1. #1

    Exclamation need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    I am researching sr and master perfumers that are African American or Black who have created commercial or prestige (not indie ) fragrances. So far found two in over a list fo 700 and both are retired. I hope that is just my poor research and not an official count as that would be a very sad state of affairs considering AA purchase more fragrance than any other ethnic group in the USA according to NPD> . Any help is appreciated :name of the perfumer and the scent he is credited for.

    thank you
    "If only there could be an invention that bottled up a memory, like scent. And it never faded, and it never got stale. And then, when one wanted it, the bottle could be uncorked, and it would be like living the moment all over again."
    — Daphne du Maurier

  2. #2

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    Stephen Nilsen

  3. #3

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    Tyrone Biggums

  4. #4

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    Does it matter? What the heck does it matter what colour someone is with regard to making perfumes? Smell is blind. Or is this another campaign to demonstrate how put upon one group is in an industry? How many Asian Americans are perfumers? How many Native Americans are perfumers? How many Chinese Americans are perfumers? How many English-but originally Uzbekistahnis are perfumers?

    I don't care. I really couldn't care less. Andy Tauer is Swiss, how many great perfumers are Swiss?

    Sorry if I'm ranting here, but it really gets on my nerves.
    In a world where people smell bad, it is the personal responsibility of every Basenoter to improve the world one SotD at a time...

  5. #5

    Smile Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    Quote Originally Posted by HDS1963 View Post
    Does it matter? What the heck does it matter what colour someone is with regard to making perfumes?
    Maybe she's doing scholarly research, charting trends or just naturally curious.


  6. #6

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    Quote Originally Posted by spooneb View Post
    Maybe she's doing scholarly research, charting trends or just naturally curious.


    Even so, my question still stands. It doesn't matter. At all. It would be like Arabs not buying Montale fragrances because he's not Arab. It doesn't matter.
    In a world where people smell bad, it is the personal responsibility of every Basenoter to improve the world one SotD at a time...

  7. #7

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    Quote Originally Posted by HDS1963 View Post
    Even so, my question still stands. It doesn't matter. At all. It would be like Arabs not buying Montale fragrances because he's not Arab. It doesn't matter.
    You are opening a political debate here. For the record, I disagree but any continuation should be by pm.....

    .....how many presidents....
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  8. #8

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder View Post
    You are opening a political debate here. For the record, I disagree but any continuation should be by pm.....

    .....how many presidents....
    Is it a political debate or one where people should just say: it doesn't matter, let it lie. Scent is blind, as I said.

    If it's a politcal debate I didn't start it. The original questioner implied it with the question. The fact is, it doesn't matter. Race should not be brought into this forum at all. This is a forum about fragrance not ethnicity.

    Personally I don't think the question should have been asked at all and is off topic.
    In a world where people smell bad, it is the personal responsibility of every Basenoter to improve the world one SotD at a time...

  9. #9

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    Quote Originally Posted by HDS1963 View Post
    Even so, my question still stands. It doesn't matter. At all. It would be like Arabs not buying Montale fragrances because he's not Arab. It doesn't matter.
    I don't think that's it at all. Give me a moment and I'll do my best to explain.

    First know that I've been called a running amok version of politically correct, so see my comment in that light because I guess I have to wear it.

    Second, I really don't think that's the question, HDS. The question isn't what people buy and who they are buying it (I do see where the original poster makes reference to someone suggesting buying patterns however), I think the central question is if members here can help by identifying African American or Black perfumers.

    Sure, smell has no color, I know that and we all know that. But anyone can be interested in the subject of perfumers as MemeChose has, and in principle I don't see the downside to the question and inquiry. I think it is going too far to draw conclusions about how the answer could be used--there might be many ways the information could be used that we'd find distasteful--but we're not deciding that here.

    If members can help, they may. I speak of my own country and naturally I'm steeped in its culture and the way discussions happen here (how could I not be?) but it is important to know that many times and in many ways it is interesting to many people the achievements of African Americans or Black people. It's something that is interesting among many to see or know the presence of same in the creation of things we like, in success in the things of our hobby.

    HDS, I hear you that you think there could be an over concern with that and a taking that concern too far--far beyond the fact that smell has no color. I hear you on that and understand you think it's gone too far. You've stated that clearly here and all readers of this thread will understand that viewpoint.

    The original poster for her own needs and interests. If members can help out, why not?

    Fellow members and readers, this is indeed a difficult topic for the tangents it can lead to. I as a moderator have to be concerned about that and am naturally worried about the risk that the site's rules against posts that can be deemed bigotry. There are other moderators too who will be looking at this thread.

    A central thing to avoid is to refer to African Americans or Black people or any other people as essentially "those people" or somehow "the other." That causes me and the moderators GREAT worries. The people aren't different, and smell has no color. Smells have a variety of creators using their noses same as all nose users. Scent users all have their own different reasons for their tastes and caprices. None of us really is "the other" or part of "those people" except that we're all smelly people.

    So, I should close by saying please.
    --Chris
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  10. #10

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    Quote Originally Posted by DustB View Post
    I don't think that's it at all. Give me a moment and I'll do my best to explain.

    First know that I've been called a running amok version of politically correct, so see my comment in that light because I guess I have to wear it.

    Second, I really don't think that's the question, HDS. The question isn't what people buy and who they are buying it (I do see where the original poster makes reference to someone suggesting buying patterns however), I think the central question is if members here can help by identifying African American or Black perfumers.

    Sure, smell has no color, I know that and we all know that. But anyone can be interested in the subject of perfumers as MemeChose has, and in principle I don't see the downside to the question and inquiry. I think it is going too far to draw conclusions about how the answer could be used--there might be many ways the information could be used that we'd find distasteful--but we're not deciding that here.

    If members can help, they may. I speak of my own country and naturally I'm steeped in its culture and the way discussions happen here (how could I not be?) but it is important to know that many times and in many ways it is interesting to many people the achievements of African Americans or Black people. It's something that is interesting among many to see or know the presence of same in the creation of things we like, in success in the things of our hobby.

    HDS, I hear you that you think there could be an over concern with that and a taking that concern too far--far beyond the fact that smell has no color. I hear you on that and understand you think it's gone too far. You've stated that clearly here and all readers of this thread will understand that viewpoint.

    The original poster for her own needs and interests. If members can help out, why not?

    Fellow members and readers, this is indeed a difficult topic for the tangents it can lead to. I as a moderator have to be concerned about that and am naturally worried about the risk that the site's rules against posts that can be deemed bigotry. There are other moderators too who will be looking at this thread.

    A central thing to avoid is to refer to African Americans or Black people or any other people as essentially "those people" or somehow "the other." That causes me and the moderators GREAT worries. The people aren't different, and smell has no color. Smells have a variety of creators using their noses same as all nose users. Scent users all have their own different reasons for their tastes and caprices. None of us really is "the other" or part of "those people" except that we're all smelly people.

    So, I should close by saying please.
    --Chris
    Dust B, I think your thoughts are valued and well reasoned.

    My objection is based on the original premise. It doesn't matter who is the nose behind the scent. What, after all is the purpose or use in finding out the ethnicity of someone who constructs a scent? None. None at all. History has taught us that the only thing that ethnicity proving does is divide. It has no purpose nor value in this forum. Nor, I would argue in any research - if only to go to saying "such and such an ethnicity is under-represented in this field". That in turn leads to quotas in hiring, which means that the best people don't necessarily get the job. Otherwise we start concerning ourselves with what sex a nose is, what sexual or gender orientation a nose it, IT DOESN'T MATTER.

    This forum is about fragrance. There are ample off topic boards where this could be raised. I don't want matters of ethnicity and the potential pitfalls therein to be involved in general discussion.
    Last edited by HDS1963; 12th April 2009 at 12:52 AM.
    In a world where people smell bad, it is the personal responsibility of every Basenoter to improve the world one SotD at a time...

  11. #11

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    Quote Originally Posted by HDS1963 View Post
    Dust B, I think your thoughts are valued and well reasoned.

    My objection is based on the original premise. It doesn't matter who is the nose behind the scent. What, after all is the purpose or use in finding out the ethnicity of someone who constructs a scent? None. None at all. History has taught us that the only thing that ethnicity proving does is divide. It has no purpose nor value in this forum. Nor, I would argue in any research - if only to go to saying "such and such an ethnicity is under-represented in this field". That in turn leads to quotas in hiring, which means that the best people don't necessarily get the job. Otherwise we start concerning ourselves with what sex a nose is, what sexual or gender orientation a nose it, IT DOESN'T MATTER.

    This forum is about fragrance. There are ample off topic boards where this could be raised. I don't want matters of ethnicity and the potential pitfalls therein to be involved in general discussion.
    HDS, I hear you in turn, and I thank you for your kind words. Readers of the tread will see them and consider your thoughts and argument for certain.

    With regard to where you believe there is no value to the original premise, and in fact "none at all," I have to disagree with you and do so in the interests of the original poster. Here is the value, and it is simple: profile.

    It can just be interesting to anyone to know profile things about people behind things they're interested in. There are profile questions I've got to admit to having about perfumers who's products I like. (Insert joke here about the profile details I'd like to have on Olivia what's her name who's done Philosykos and so many others I love).

    The profile questions the original poster asks for might not be interesting to you, that's cool. But as long as the thread makes sense as profile question and not a color=cause/reason for X or Z, it's only that.

    Thanks very much for hearing me and your kind words.
    --Chris
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  12. #12

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    Interesting question memechose. I wonder what percentage are women, considering women buy more fragrances than men.

    To me, the gist of the question is asking about any artist who might be sympathetic to the tastes and desires of a particular group due to having a sort of "insider's" perspective to that group. As HDS stated, it seems obvious that the artist does not need to be a member of that group to appear to be "plugged in". Otherwise, that target group would not buy, right? But, it still is an interesting question to ask, I think. Somehow the product must transcend sociopolitical lines, or it simply won't succeed in the marketplace. Maybe it is also an interesting question to ask--how do the perfumers make things that have such broad appeal, even if they don't have "insider" information or share common interests with a particular group?
    Last edited by Asha; 12th April 2009 at 04:15 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    This is for a research article for a national magazine. Scent is often cultural, for example in many middle eastern countries oud and roses are worn my most men rich or poor ; in this country the No 1 seller is Aqua di Gio.

    The point is certain industries still may behind the times and not really understand that scent is part of culture, memories and true education begins with experts who can mentor future genrations. 43% of this country is multicultural and not all Latinas (as one myself) do not want to smell like a fruit salad. if you look into my wardrobe just try to find a cheap fruity floral....


    And as far as scent being blind, I have watched SAs who rep very expensive luxurious fragrances turn their head when a person looks a certain way or dresses a certain way.


    As I write for a variety of beauty and lifestyle magazines, all upscale, I was once told by a certain French luxury company that they didnt want to feature a fragrance in my article as the target audience (who were affluent 100k plus- higher than Vogue, GQ, Allure etc.) wasn't quite right.


    thank you DustB, scentophile , spoonb and Soukou for your information.it truly is appreciated. fine fragrance can cost $50-$500. Same can be said for poorly constructed fragrances. Education, and greater awareness of fine fragrance must begin with each of you mentoring someone else without snobbery or pomposity. Maybe the BIG 5 companies will get the message. . NOTHING FURTHER IS NEEDED, BUT THANK YOU
    Last edited by memechose; 12th April 2009 at 05:16 AM. Reason: clarification
    "If only there could be an invention that bottled up a memory, like scent. And it never faded, and it never got stale. And then, when one wanted it, the bottle could be uncorked, and it would be like living the moment all over again."
    — Daphne du Maurier

  14. #14

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    It is interesting while putting race aside, there is a difference between American and French perfumery and Middle Eastern perfumery in the sense of taste. Though we are using the same palette and the techniques are the same, the structure of a true American fragrance is slightly different than the French structure and that of the Middle Eastern's. Being involved in industrial creation, I can begin to tell which fragrances are meant for which market and sometimes the difference is really miniscule and the difference in several molecules or raw materials!

    But I like what HDS says that it is not the perfumer's race that dictates creation.

  15. #15

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    I'm going to skip the can-worms-open political hot potato (some interesting points have already been raised) - and just add a naive curiosity to this: I wonder how many Finnish perfumers there are? There must have been someone in history/there is probably someone right now - but for personal reasons, it'd be kind of cool if the list was short

    Also, to answer OP:

    Michael Boadi

    http://www.basenotes.net/interviews/...ael-boadi.html

  16. #16

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    Quote Originally Posted by HDS1963 View Post
    Is it a political debate or one where people should just say: it doesn't matter, let it lie. Scent is blind, as I said.

    If it's a politcal debate I didn't start it. The original questioner implied it with the question. The fact is, it doesn't matter. Race should not be brought into this forum at all. This is a forum about fragrance not ethnicity.

    Personally I don't think the question should have been asked at all and is off topic.
    Well I tried to steer it to PMs but no luck.

    I too think that it shouldn't matter what racial background perfumers have, or politicians, or doctors or lawers or any other group. It shouldn't but it does. It does because we do not (yet?) live in a liberal nirvana. Very real discriminatory history and current racism see to that.

    So often it doesn't matter to the empowered group what colour/race etc a perfumer/policeman/teacher etc is but it does matter to the diesempowered group.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  17. #17

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    This belongs in the Fragrance Industry forum. ;-)
    Last edited by noggs; 12th April 2009 at 02:16 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: need expertise with 'noses' A real STUMPER

    Quote Originally Posted by noggs View Post
    This belongs in the Fragrance Industry forum. ;-)
    [I'm going to hold it here for now.]
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

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