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  1. #1
    Scentronic's Avatar
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    Default Extraction of oakmoss and others

    With all these ridiculous guidelines coming out that will probably put an end to most of the fragrances I hold dear, I'm thinking of giving DIY perfumery a try. But not just from the standpoint of mixing oils - I want to grow or obtain the raw materials myself and do the extraction.

    I've got a piece of lake property that is just overflowing with real live oakmoss. And what the heck... why not grow some jasmine and roses while I'm at it? Add some vanilla and lime extracts, and I've got something along the lines of my cherished Feuille Verte. Of course, it's not quite that simple. But I could see myself getting into this. A niche perfumery specializing in all natural ingredients including oakmoss and jasmine. I could just keep it small and sell to friends.

    So I'm already reading up on the different methods of extraction, including solvents and macerations etc.

    Does anyone here do this?
    Lately I've been wearing:
    Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah

  2. #2

    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    Oakmoss absolute

    Preparation of Concrete
    Concrete is prepared by extraction (benzene) with yield 2-4%. Product will be dark green in colour.
    To improve yield, moss is immersed in water for 6 hours and dried before extraction
    Preparation of absolute
    Obtained via alcoholic extraction of concrete for 6 hrs. Yield is approximately 60% and the colour will be dark green.
    The mixture was cooled down in iced water bath before vacuum filtration to remove all insoluble impurities. Mixture can be decolourized by adding activated charcoal powder followed by ashless powder before vacuum filtration. Ashless powder will aid in filtration. Repeat Filtration as many times as needed (if the black particle is still around, filtration has to be repeated)
    The liquid product was distilled under vacuum with high bp, odorless solvent and codistilled to give better color and yield of product.

    When you are handling benzene and the product, please be extra careful. Benzene is carcinogenic and it is relatively volatile. Please discard organic solvent properly. As you know, oakmoss is an allergen, at the concentration you are handling, you should handle it carefully. There is a article on the production of oakmoss absolute with reduced allergic side effects (International Journal of Cosmetic Science # 14, Issue 3, p 121).



    Fenaroli's handbook of flavor ingredients
    By George A. Burdock, Giovanni Fenaroli
    Edition: 5, illustrated
    Published by CRC Press, 2004
    ISBN 0849330343, 9780849330346
    2009 pages
    Last edited by ultranova3; 20th April 2009 at 04:26 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    couldn't have put it better myself for the oakmoss the trickiest part is going to be evapping the benzene and recollecting it (you should recollect it to use again)

    maybe look into trying enfleurage for the jasmines, although to be fully realistic about the time considerations involved, its a hell of a job!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    When you are handling benzene and the product, please be extra careful. Benzene is carcinogenic and it is relatively volatile
    Benzene is significantly carcinogenic and dangerous. I would strongly recommend against working with benzene. In fact benzene is now considered to be so toxic that I doubt anyone still uses it for oakmoss extraction.
    Last edited by dcampen; 26th May 2009 at 04:41 PM.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    what about oakmoss infusion? no one does that anymore, but i've read that coty used it in his original chypre formula.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen View Post
    Benzene is significantly carcinogenic and dangerous. I would strongly recommend against working with benzene. In fact benzene is now considered to be so toxic that I doubt anyone still uses it for oakmoss extraction.
    !!!!

    Benzene causes cancer in about 100% of those who come in contact with it.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    Infusions are very uncommon in modern perfumery. Before the introduction of solvent extraction these were used a lot. I don't think infusions are commercialy available anymore.

    More usual solvents these days are pentane, hexane and alike solvents. Alcohol is used directly when the extracting material contains no or little water.

    As far as I know there are no rules that prohibit the trade in fragrance materials like oakmoss extracts, so purchasing them is probably the best way to get some.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    i am definitely going to purchase some, actually from you, jan.
    but i thought it might be fun and interesting to collect some oakmoss on a dry winterday, and to try to make a infusion like they did in the old days of the original chypre. do you know if the result would be any different from what you get with solvent extraction?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    According to the classic German perfumerbook H. Mann / F. Winter (Die Moderne Parfumerie = "The modern perfumery") an infusion = extract = lavage is made from a pommade. A pommade is the result of enfleurage. When you soak oakmoss in alcohol, you will not get an infusion, you will get a tincture.

    The formula from this book for tincture of oakmoss is simple:
    250 gram Oakmoss (dry, pulverised)
    1.25 liter Alcohol

    Extracting time: 14 days

    Btw "modern" means in this case: 1932

  10. #10

    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    According to my herb books, infusion is actually like making a tea. You can infuse plant ingredients by putting them in boiling water, steeping, then straining.

    Tincture can be made with oil or alcohol, is done at room temperature and is allowed to "steep" for an extended period (days, weeks, months).

  11. #11
    Scentronic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    Quote Originally Posted by janmeut View Post
    According to the classic German perfumerbook H. Mann / F. Winter (Die Moderne Parfumerie = "The modern perfumery") an infusion = extract = lavage is made from a pommade. A pommade is the result of enfleurage. When you soak oakmoss in alcohol, you will not get an infusion, you will get a tincture.

    The formula from this book for tincture of oakmoss is simple:
    250 gram Oakmoss (dry, pulverised)
    1.25 liter Alcohol

    Extracting time: 14 days

    Btw "modern" means in this case: 1932
    Ok, so what's next? I'm totally new to this! I'm assuming some sort of draining/separation/skimming? What will these quantities yield? What kind of alcohol should I use?
    Lately I've been wearing:
    Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah

  12. #12

    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    Scentronic, I think you should use perfumer's alcohol, and let it steep in a closed bottle, in the dark, for several weeks. If I were doing it, I probably would fill a mason jar with the herb, and then pour the alcohol in until full. When you are ready to strain, you can use a collandar or food strainer with cheese cloth for the first pass, then a fine filter paper for the 2nd. I suppose if you want to be more scientific about it, you should record how many grams of plant material fills your jar, and how many ml of alcohol you pour in.

  13. #13
    Scentronic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    That sounds like it would yield about as much alcohol as you poured in, right? So then what do you do with that solution?

    Isn't the idea to get it down into a concentrated oil? Fill in the gap...
    Lately I've been wearing:
    Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah

  14. #14

    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    No, because if you had an EO or absolute, you would dilute it. The tincture when finished should be ready to use, unless you want to dilute further for composing your fragrance.
    Last edited by Asha; 28th November 2009 at 12:55 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

    You can filtrate the tincture, and that 's it, ready to use.
    250 gram oakmoss + 1.25 liter alcohol will yield about 1.25 liter tincture.

    You could of course let the alcohol evaporate. I think you should do this in vacuum. Unless you know exactly what you do this is potentially dangerous, hot evaporated alcohol is -combined with air- explosive. In the end you will get a sticky mass that you could either call resinoid or absolute. The yield will be probably not more than a few grams.

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