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  1. #31

    Default Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pollux View Post
    Everybody in product development knows changes must not be made in a rush. Changes in formulas are done in homeopathic steps. The New Coke case proved what every single product development engineer was doing ages ago, you can not do it on a sudden.

    So the answer would be that there will be plenty of time for getting stocks, but only in the cases were the end product would radically change due to reformulation.

    Final line - change is part of life, just cope with it.

    It is another thing to cope with what is happening and another to like it.
    Last edited by *dora*; 24th April 2009 at 09:47 PM.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Le critique de parfum View Post

    Hirch_duckfinder, there's really no such thing a small producers right now. Even the little maisons are ordering their juices from Givaudan, IFF or Robertet
    Your statement should read "there are MOSTLY no such things as..."

    I work for an independent perfumer and they produce all scents (product scents and fine fragrances) in-house & go as far as buy in all the materials themselves; often visiting the growers themselves to check quality at point of distillation. Now that's also very rare these days.

  3. #33
    N_Tesla's Avatar
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    Angry Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    You know this logic just doesn't hold up to the light of day. If I buy a bugatti it sure as hell better not come with Ford engine or else it is not a Bugatti. Bugatti has a reputation for what? Speed, beauty, engineeing. Anthing else is not what the product name represents. Therefore, if it walks like a the duck, looks like the duck, it had better be THE duck!, and not a mud hen that smells sort of like the duck. It is an ethical violation to call it a duck, when it just isn't made of the same duck parts. The brand name of the perfume should end right there unless the industry, and I bet they won't, wants to put a disclaimer on the product that warns the public that, due to regulation, they had to remove the quack from the duck in order to continue the product. Speaking of disclainers, I don't see the industry appealing to use disclaimers on products already on the market. Are the regulators of Europe more worried about the chemical effects of scents that have been arround for years on health compared to smoking and alcoholic products? Grandfather in the old scents, put a disclaimer on them and make them available to those eighteen years or older. If the French fragrance manufacturers are more interested in guidelines/possible laws instead of fighting for sales then to hell with them. There are plenty of niche manufacturers who can produce outside France. I think the industry has taken the attitude that the public will just roll over and buy their argument that it is the government that is at fault while, as far as I can tell, the industry does little or nothing to affect common sense approaches to implimentation of these guidelines. Sorry folks. Nothing persoal towards anyone but, these fragrances are, to me, art and I dont want Rodin statues to have to be reformulated from marble into high impact plastic. Whether or not this practice has already been done for some time does not make it any less ethical and only if the buying public lets these manufacturers know that they won't continue to buy their procuts will changes be made. I am buying my ducks while they are, reasonably, still ducks.


    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    Any company that lacks the foresightedness to ignore guidelines destined to become law has no-one to blame for any future happenings but itself.
    Last edited by N_Tesla; 25th April 2009 at 06:48 PM.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    "And if you love something, buy two bottles, because next time it may be changed or gone."

    Tania Sanchez,
    Perfumes The Guide P29

    Good enough for me. I really cannot understand why you would advise people not to stock up on perfumes which are precious to them when it is a given fact that they are constantly changing for the worse.

    The argument that they may get better again in the future is just daft. They may, though I think that is highly unlikely. Regardless, it shouldn't impact on the fact that it would be wise to stock up on something you will regret not stocking up on in the future, if you can.

    There are plenty of producers who source some or all of their materials from other places than the big four.

    I don't understand what your motivation is, in telling people not to worry.

    By the way, in seven months time they are banning violins and piccolo flutes, as some people get tinitus when they listen to them really loud through headphones on trains. But don't worry as there are already lots of recordings of Bach concertos using synthesisers which conductors have been secretly phasing in. And in future synthesisers will get so good that they will be better than violins.
    Last edited by hirch_duckfinder; 25th April 2009 at 09:42 PM.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

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  5. #35
    N_Tesla's Avatar
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    Angry Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    hirch_duckfinder:

    Well said! Here, here!


    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder View Post
    "And if you love something, buy two bottles, because next time it may be changed or gone."

    Tania Sanchez,
    Perfumes The Guide P29

    Good enough for me. I really cannot understand why you would advise people not to stock up on perfumes which are precious to them when it is a given fact that they are constantly changing for the worse.

    The argument that they may get better again in the future is just daft. They may, though I think that is highly unlikely. Regardless, it shouldn't impact on the fact that it would be wise to stock up on something you will regret not stocking up on in the future, if you can.

    There are plenty of producers who source some or all of their materials from other places than the big four.

    I don't understand what your motivation is, in telling people not to worry.

    By the way, in seven months time they are banning violins and piccalo flutes, as some people get tinitus when they listen to them really loud through headphones on trains. But don't worry as there are already lots of recordings of Bach concertos using synthesisers which conductors have been secretly phasing in. And in future synthesisers will get so good that they will be better than violins.

  6. #36
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    Angry Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    The faceless consortium government of a few European countries who forget that the powers intrusted to them come from the people. There are times when the people and industry must reign in the, perhaps well intentioned but, misplaced intention to deprive the people of their right to choose based on the premise of protecting us. Logically that is protecting us from ourselves! Recently here in U.S. we have realized that such protectionism is an excuse to circumvent civil liberties that comes at the risk of the very freedoms that we hold dear. The right to choose is at risk here. Benjamin Franklin once said, and I paraphrase, those who would give up liberty for the perception of safety deserve neither. If corporations wish to alienate their clients they must understand that they do so at the peril of the sale of their products. If governments do not understand the limits of their intrusion into civil liberties, then it is time to change them. It is truly strange to me that the governments of the U.S. and France must once again relearn the meaning of freedom of choice. Has it been too long since the revolutionary war and the French revolution? Thank God there are still some of us who remember the priciples of freedom. If you feel the same way, do something. Write letters to the big fragrance companies and tell them that you are mad as hell and your not taking it anymore. Talk to them about depriving them of your money spent on their products in the future. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.
    Last edited by N_Tesla; 25th April 2009 at 10:09 PM.

  7. #37

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    Default Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by N_Tesla View Post
    The faceless consortium government of a few European countries who forget that the powers intrusted to them come from the people..
    Are you joking ? Please look at the map

    To the best of my knowledge IFRA is an institution that was created in the US and then spread its net across the globe. Maybe it is necessary to first study how the principles of freedom and choice are undermined by the bullying behavior of some IFRA members.
    Last edited by narcus; 27th April 2009 at 09:41 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    I don't have anything to add to this obviously hot topic other than to mention that it would probably serve no purpose to stock up on current formulations of the classics. If you want the original versions of Mitsouko, Shalimar, L'Heure Bleue, Dioressence, Diorissimo, Miss Dior etc. you had better get them on eBay.

    I received my first 1940's bottle of Mitsouko extrait and I'm already saving for a backup bottle. I also noticed that after having smelled 1940's Mitsouko and L'Heure Bleue my bottle of current formulation Shalimar suddenly smells weak by comparison.
    Looking to swap/buy/receive for free () the following samples/decants:
    Indult Tihota & Rêve en Cuir
    Chant d'Aromes extrait
    Vetiver pour Elle (5ml decant)


    Selling/swapping:
    Versace The Dreamer 50ml (1.7oz) BNIB
    ---

    "The Sunshine bores the daylights outta me!"
    http://polderposh.blogspot.com/

  9. #39

    Default Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    [QUOTE=Merlino;1496328]I don't have anything to add to this obviously hot topic other than to mention that it would probably serve no purpose to stock up on current formulations of the classics. If you want the original versions of Mitsouko, Shalimar, L'Heure Bleue, Dioressence, Diorissimo, Miss Dior etc. you had better get them on eBay.

    Thank you. This is the kind of answer I've been waiting for.
    Any tips on how can you be sure if the item is the real deal? I've had good and bad experiences with Ebay but have never bought vintage perfume. No idea what to expect and how to find good stuff.

  10. #40
    Merlino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    First of all, you can never be 100% sure. However, look for sellers that post multiple pictures including close-ups of old labels that would be difficult to replicate (i.e. not worth the effort). A good example of a currently running legitimate auction for 7.5ml of vintage Mitsouko: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tab%3DWatching. This has a lot of the characteristics of vintage Guerlain:

    * Red Marley horse logo sticker on the bottom of the bottle and box (1930-1950).
    * Ground glass stopper (pre-1968).
    * Cloth around neck of bottle
    * Old-style label

    These are the two threads from when I bought a vintage bottle of L'Heure Bleue:
    Can anyone help me date this L'Heure Bleue bottle?
    Vintage L'Heure Bleue review

    These links provided by Junkfood are also very helpful:
    http://reviews.ebay.com/Vintage-Guer...00000001688347
    http://reviews.ebay.com/Vintage-Guer...00000003805546

    I'm decidedly less well versed in vintage Dior and Chanel but your best bet is to trust sellers that post a lot of info and multiple clear pictures. Also a good indicator is that there's some heavy bidding for the item.
    Looking to swap/buy/receive for free () the following samples/decants:
    Indult Tihota & Rêve en Cuir
    Chant d'Aromes extrait
    Vetiver pour Elle (5ml decant)


    Selling/swapping:
    Versace The Dreamer 50ml (1.7oz) BNIB
    ---

    "The Sunshine bores the daylights outta me!"
    http://polderposh.blogspot.com/

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    I have t say honestly; "only someone working in the "industry", with something to gain from reformulations, would advocate not stocking up on vintage or loved scents. I feel, as I have said thousands of times before, "if you love it, you should own multiples, two at the least." I will never agree with things becoming better, I want my Joy to smell of jasmin, fine jasmin at that, for the money I do not want a cocktail of chemicals trying to fool my olfactory system. I think it is fabulous, in the ever greedy quest for profits, that anyone could start spouting off about how wonderful things may be someday thanks to chemical replications of notes.
    Just as I am sure a lovely print of a 1967 Fiat 850 Spider will satisfy the longing for someone who has once owned and loved the car. But that is the foolishness that we are being fed, and I have been sickened by it for 20 years or more now and am ready to regurgitate all of this Public Relations fodder.
    In conclusion, buy it now, even if it is just a scent you like that is newer or modern, it may be a different scent by next week, month, or next year.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  12. #42

    Default Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    It looks like a recap of what IFRA is is in place:

    "IFRA, the International Fragrance Association, is the official representative body of the fragrance industry worldwide."

    And I have still not seen any official references to that EU is taking IFRA's recommendations as laws.
    Last edited by Ascella; 26th April 2009 at 04:36 PM.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    I think it is fabulous, in the ever greedy quest for profits, that anyone could start spouting off about how wonderful things may be someday thanks to chemical replications of notes.
    Speaking as a chemist, I agree completely. The simplest fact of nature - the one upon which the very utility of science rests - is that things are what they are, and reproducibly so. The variability of natural substances in space and time gives them their uniqueness. Synthetics offer stark reproducibility of themselves - not of the natural substances they replace. Those who desire the rich intricacy of natural substances will be disappointed by their synthetic replacements. Most noses, less discerning or more tolerant (mine in the latter camp) will buy the new one and settle. But those who sense and desire the original should not be fooled. The idea that any complex natural mixture is truly replaced by a synthetic reconstitution is hogwash which creeps in somewhere between the truth of science and the overstatements of marketing. The very existence and success of headspace technology in discovering new odorants is essentially proof that natural substances contain significant substances in tiny quantities, often not as fully appreciated as they should be. Synthetics, alone or in combination, offer themselves - nothing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    Just as I am sure a lovely print of a 1967 Fiat 850 Spider will satisfy the longing for someone who has once owned and loved the car.
    LMAO! Although perhaps a more fair analogy would be an American replica kit-car or a Chinese knock-off, either one rattling like a buzz-saw and belching smoke between backfires.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    But that is the foolishness that we are being fed, and I have been sickened by it for 20 years or more now and am ready to regurgitate all of this Public Relations fodder.
    In conclusion, buy it now, even if it is just a scent you like that is newer or modern, it may be a different scent by next week, month, or next year.
    Yes. If you must have it now and forever, buy it and put it away. Even if it was a mistake and you lose your love for the fragrance, somebody else will thank God when you sell it on Z-bay 30 years from now.

    I'm not saying that Jicky 3000 won't be good. But it won't be Jicky 2000, much less the original.
    * * * *

  14. #44

    Default Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    Thanks Merlino, that's great. I'll have a look at that Ebay item and keep my eyes open for similar things.

  15. #45

    Default Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    About FduB's reformulation:

    "En raison de la législation régissant la parfumerie, tous les parfums subissent des modifications tous les trois-quatre ans. Mes parfums, dont Féminité du Bois ne dérogent pas à cette règle. Les matières interdites sont modifiées par des produits d’une aussi grande qualité. Cette opération est effectuée par experts très pointus. Contrairement aux idées répandues, cette modification ne tire pas toujours obligatoirement le parfum vers le bas. Il arrive même que certains s’en trouvent bonifiés."
    Serge Lutens. May 19, 2009.

    Basically, reformulations are not always bad, and some fragrances can even improve.

  16. #46
    N_Tesla's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    Once a product is launched the perfumer is stating "this is my new child". If the child is imperfect then, the perfumer has failed, not the perfume. It exists and now develops a following and a personality amongst the buying public. Once the child is born you should not attempt to change who or what it is. Make a new child with a new name and go on. I hope this perspective gives syntheticists an idea of where I/we come from regarding reformulations. Morally the child deserves to exist or cease to exist on it's own merits and once the public becomes its' patron is not entirely the chattle of the perfumer. There is then a responsibility on the part of the perfumer to the public. I have no problems with synthetics in perfumes as long as I know they are there and I choose to buy such an abomination. Personally, I choose not to do so in most cases. So, the question, once again, is if you should by backups of your favorite fragrances? I choose to do so because at the whim of these perfume producers what you once loved could be gone forever through reformulation next week.


    Quote Originally Posted by Le critique de parfum View Post
    About FduB's reformulation:

    "En raison de la législation régissant la parfumerie, tous les parfums subissent des modifications tous les trois-quatre ans. Mes parfums, dont Féminité du Bois ne dérogent pas à cette règle. Les matières interdites sont modifiées par des produits d’une aussi grande qualité. Cette opération est effectuée par experts très pointus. Contrairement aux idées répandues, cette modification ne tire pas toujours obligatoirement le parfum vers le bas. Il arrive même que certains s’en trouvent bonifiés."
    Serge Lutens. May 19, 2009.

    Basically, reformulations are not always bad, and some fragrances can even improve.
    Last edited by N_Tesla; 20th May 2009 at 02:52 PM.

  17. #47
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    Default Re: Are the classics worth stocking up at this point?

    Reformulations aside, if it's financially feasible to stock up on your "Must-haves", why not? To me it's a common sense thing. Sometimes future economic uncertainty requires preparation, and consider it your "Fragrance investment for the future", right along with your regular retirement/savings plan. Not to mention unknown discontinuations and reforms.
    Hearts starve as well as bodies; give us bread, but give us roses.
    ~~James Oppenheimer~~

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