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  1. #1

    Default My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Bonjour Sylvaine,

    I am a huge fan of Guerlains perfumes, in particular Jicky. I have been wearing it since 1995. Some time in 2005 it was reformulated and they added too much rose. It's very obvious in comparison to older stock. To be honest, I can't buy Mitsouko, Vol De Nuit, Shalimar and L'Heure Bleue but from Ebay. Current stock in Bergdorf Goodman and Saks does not smell good. They have been reformulated and the mystery and greatness is now gone. The current scents are very bad

    Merci,
    Monsieur Aaron

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dear Mister,

    I can understand, you are disapointed by the reformulations, but wehave done very little changes! You know, we are obliged to respect the law! In France, which is our major market, where Guerlain is very well-known and appreciate I could say we have only very, very few reclamations!
    An advice: with the new products, keep them during a long time you will recover the pleasure thanks for your comments.

    Regards
    Sylvaine Delacourte
    Creative Director of Guerlain Fragrances

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Bonjour Sylvaine

    Thank you for your response.

    With much due respect, I doubt the sales in France compete with the sales in the US. Considering the fact the US is 40 times larger than France and the richest country in the world. I'm sure the sales in the United States are the largest for Guerlain. History: Shalimar was first a success in the United States before it became a success in France.

    We here in the US, have a great love for Guerlain. We know quite well the quality and talent that the French are know for. We love France.

    It's very sad to see France's national treasures (vol de nuit, jicky, mitsouko, shalimar, l'heure bleue) be treated badly. You would agree with me that the Mona Lisa (la joconde) is to be preserved for future generations. You can't paint over the Mona Lisa because a new crazy law says so, the same with Guerlains. Here in the US, Guerlain is not just a fragrance house, it is the symbol of Parfums. The Michelangelo of Fragrances. As such, we don't believe LVMH has the right to change the masterpieces of the Fragrances.

    I see that they spent a lot of money to protect sales in Ebay France. They can do the same in the European Union and lobby against such ridiculous laws that trample on Frances(and the world's) national treasure(Guerlains).

    I will say this. Up to this point Guerlain enjoys the reputation that it has built for over 180 years. That will change once everyone notices that Guerlain fragrances no longer have any magic.

    Merci,
    Aaron

  2. #2

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    To give you a little background on why I wrote to Guerlain.

    Today, I put on Jicky edt just purchased from Saks. It was quite anoying and cloying. Before, it was like second skin and made me very happy.

    While I still have about 4 onces of early 90's pure extrait and 4 edt bottles and 1 PDT, I ussually don't wear them but on special occations. Therefore, I thought for every day use, I could use the current formulations. But, its horrible.


    Notice, she said that France is their largest market and they have little complaints from the French. Therefore, she believes that the reformulations are well received.
    I personally take offence to that, in the she disregards the American market. How arrogant! I doubt they would be spending so much money adverstising in the US and using American Hillary Swank as lead model. All of the French houses know that most of their sales come from the US as we are gready spenders. I wish they would treat us with a bit more respect.

    This is her email address in case you are interested. sylvainedelacourte@gmail.com
    Last edited by ManlyScent; 24th April 2009 at 07:14 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by ManlyScent View Post
    To give you a little background on why I wrote to Guerlain.

    Today, I put on Jicky edt just purchased from Saks. It was quite anoying and cloying. Before, it was like second skin and made me very happy.

    While I still have about 4 onces of early 90's pure extrait and 4 edt bottles and 1 PDT, I ussually don't wear them but on special occations. Therefore, I thought for every day use, I could use the current formulations. But, its horrible.


    Notice, she said that France is their largest market and they have little complaints from the French. Therefore, she believes that the reformulations are well received.
    I personally take offence to that, in the she disregards the American market. How arrogant! I doubt they would be spending so much money adverstising in the US and using American Hillary Swank as lead model. All of the French houses know that most of their sales come from the US as we are gready spenders. I wish they would treat us with a bit more respect.

    This is her email address in case you are interested. sylvainedelacourte@gmail.com

    Dude!!! What are you waiting for to use the stuff you already have? The extrait alone will last you your entire lifetime. Why the rationing, you have more than enough juice to last you the rest of your life.
    <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

    Obsessions of the Moment- Kristiansand EDC, Green Irish Tweed, Zizan

    Granted, we've known each other for some time. It don't take a whole day to recognize sunshine. ~ Common Sense

  4. #4

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Thanks for sharing that. Unfortunately, I think your concerns are falling on deaf ears. It can't hurt to write though, we need to make ourselves heard.

  5. #5

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by ManlyScent View Post
    An advice: with the new products, keep them during a long time you will recover the pleasure thanks for your comments.

    Regards
    Sylvaine Delacourte
    Creative Director of Guerlain Fragrances

    i think you overlooked the comment made by Sylvaine...is she hinting on the perfumes aging process...?

  6. #6

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by mtgprox05 View Post
    Dude!!! What are you waiting for to use the stuff you already have? The extrait alone will last you your entire lifetime. Why the rationing, you have more than enough juice to last you the rest of your life.

    While, I may or may not be set for the rest of my life is not the point. This is about art and principal. You don't redo the Sistine chapel with eco friendly paint. Nor do you ingore the clients the keep you in business.

    In the 30's they heavily advertised in the US. In the 60's they made Vetiver for the Mexican market. That is what business is all about. You listen to your clients suggestions and preferences.

    In 2000+ Guerlain has it so wrong.

  7. #7

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    I think your reply to her was a bit rude to be honest. The comments about country size and money is pretty absurd and a very stereotypical American thing to say. I don't think she was disregarding the American market whatsoever. Your comments to her were curt and not seeking anything. You wrote to tell her that you don't like their perfumes. Considering that, I think her response was more than cordial.

  8. #8

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    You did good ManlyScent. Sylvaine is so down to earth and she handles criticism like no one!

    Sure I don't love all her creations but I adore her as a woman. Pure class.


  9. #9

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    I can understand your concern but the way you expressed it (chiefly in the second e-mail you sent) would leave me... unwilling to facilitate you. I'm guessing that Sylvaine probably has better info on which country constitutes their biggest market and the fact that you would call the US the richest country in the world is simply hilarious!
    Looking to swap/buy/receive for free () the following samples/decants:
    Indult Tihota & Rêve en Cuir
    Chant d'Aromes extrait
    Vetiver pour Elle (5ml decant)


    Selling/swapping:
    Versace The Dreamer 50ml (1.7oz) BNIB
    ---

    "The Sunshine bores the daylights outta me!"
    http://polderposh.blogspot.com/

  10. #10

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by jenson View Post
    i think you overlooked the comment made by Sylvaine...is she hinting on the perfumes aging process...?
    No doubt perfumes find a balance with age. If you find a vintage from the 40's you will notice the frangrance is very linear almost flat. This happens with age, eventually, the notes find an equalibrium. Its like they become one note. I much prefer my frangrances to have a begining, middle and end. That is why I buy from the 90's. Its perfect, as age has perfected it like wine and it still has a begining, middle and end.

    So yes, If I was to age the current formulations, they would be come more blended. That, however will not mask the cheap ingreadients nor the their lack luster formulation. I think she is trying for us to buy time. You know ....
    "hey..wait 5 years from know to decide if this fragrance is good or not. In the mean time keep it quiet, we don't like bad publicity"

  11. #11

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by ManlyScent View Post
    No doubt perfumes find a balance with age. If you find a vintage from the 40's you will notice the frangrance is very linear almost flat.
    I don't know where you got this from but the 1940's bottles of Mitsouko and L'Heure Bleue I own are by no means linear, in fact they both display a clear top-heart-base progression.
    Looking to swap/buy/receive for free () the following samples/decants:
    Indult Tihota & Rêve en Cuir
    Chant d'Aromes extrait
    Vetiver pour Elle (5ml decant)


    Selling/swapping:
    Versace The Dreamer 50ml (1.7oz) BNIB
    ---

    "The Sunshine bores the daylights outta me!"
    http://polderposh.blogspot.com/

  12. #12
    DON'T DRINK AND DRESS

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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Just a note on per capita wealth 2007:

    Data Plot Name Twenty Richest Countries Per Capita (GDP), June 2007 (#183) (DPR)
    Updater (no updater)
    Last Updated 12/12/2007
    Source NationMaster
    Source URL www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco...
    Source Document
    Notes It should be noted that about 30% of Luxembourg's population does not live in Luxembourg, so I'm not sure if I would still call Luxembourg the richest...
    Field Name Country Name
    GDP Per Capita


    1 Luxembourg 79,851
    2 Norway 63,918
    3 Iceland 53,290
    4 Qatar 52,239
    5 Switzerland 49,351
    6 Ireland 48,524
    7 Denmark 47,768
    8 United States 41,889
    9 Sweden 39,636
    10 Netherlands 38,248
    11 Austria 37,175
    12 Finland 36,819
    13 United Kingdom 36,508
    14 Bermuda 36,408
    15 Australia 36,032
    16 Japan 35,484
    17 Belgium 35,388
    18 France
    19 Canada 34,484
    20 Germany 33,890
    Summaries Average = 44,047.4736842105
    Last edited by kbe; 24th April 2009 at 04:23 PM.
    'Those who grow too big for their pants will be exposed in the end'--anon

  13. #13

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by jrd4t View Post
    I think your reply to her was a bit rude to be honest. The comments about country size and money is pretty absurd and a very stereotypical American thing to say. I don't think she was disregarding the American market whatsoever. Your comments to her were curt and not seeking anything. You wrote to tell her that you don't like their perfumes. Considering that, I think her response was more than cordial.
    I agree, sometimes I get carried away with my language. I should have used numbers

    Please find in www.lvmh.com sales reports for various years.

    2003 sales by regions

    USA %26
    Europe%21
    France %17
    Japan %16
    Asia %13
    Others $7

    2004 Sales by Regions
    USA %27
    Europe%19
    France%17
    Japan%15
    Asia%16
    Others %6

    My point again. They make the most money from the US.

  14. #14

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by jrd4t View Post
    I think your reply to her was a bit rude to be honest. The comments about country size and money is pretty absurd and a very stereotypical American thing to say. I don't think she was disregarding the American market whatsoever. Your comments to her were curt and not seeking anything. You wrote to tell her that you don't like their perfumes. Considering that, I think her response was more than cordial.
    This was my initial response after reading your email exchange also.

    I had to snigger a little at the "US being the richest country in the world" comment... I thought it more than a little ill-advised. Your comments and observations were all valid ones, right up until this misconceived remark kinda spoiled it for you.

  15. #15

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by jrd4t View Post
    I think your reply to her was a bit rude to be honest. The comments about country size and money is pretty absurd. . ..
    I agree with jrd4t. ManlyScent, don't you think that Guerlain knows where most of its sales are made? After all they do have access to their own sales ledgers. Guerlain makes up only a small part of the LVMH conglomerate. Citing figures for the group as a whole proves nothing about Guerlains sales.

    In addition the US is only ~5 times larger than France in terms of population not 40. If you take into account the rest of Europe (which also buys Guerlain products) the US has less than half the number of people. If you are going to write polemical letters like that the least you could do is get the facts correct.
    Last edited by surreality; 24th April 2009 at 04:39 PM.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  16. #16

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by ManlyScent View Post
    I agree, sometimes I get carried away with my language. I should have used numbers

    Please find in www.lvmh.com sales reports for various years.

    2003 sales by regions

    USA %26
    Europe%21
    France %17
    Japan %16
    Asia %13
    Others $7

    2004 Sales by Regions
    USA %27
    Europe%19
    France%17
    Japan%15
    Asia%16
    Others %6

    My point again. They make the most money from the US.
    Is this LVMH as an entire entity or just Guerlain?

    edit: LVMH's fragrance and cosmetics revenue from France is 16%, Rest of Europe 42%, US 8%.
    Hm
    Last edited by Gblue; 24th April 2009 at 04:37 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    I agree. Don't you think that Guerlain knows where most of its sales are made? After all they do have access to their own sales ledgers. In addition the US is only ~5 times larger than France in terms of population not 40. If you take into account the rest of Europe (which also buys Guerlain products) the US has less than half the number of people. If you are going to write polemical letters like that the least you could do is get the facts correct.
    Read my post above. I provided the sales numbers fromt he LVMH website. US is their highest consumer.

    Equally disrespectful, is them ignoring their higest consumer market.

  18. #18

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    First of all, I congratulate you on being so honest in your email, I do not personally think it is being rude nor curt, you are just being honest. Truth be told, the US is enormous in comparison to France, not sure about being the richest country anymore but there is more money generated here on luxury goods just by the volume of people spending.
    As far as letting the fragrance age a few years, what a bucketful of horse droppings that is. I worked for Guerlain from 1998-2002 and all the fragrances I sold smelled lovely, we did not have to "age" them as if the were a fine wine, or brie. Complete poppycock!!
    I do think she insinuated that the French client was content and satisfied, so everyone else should fall in line also. This is unacceptable; who cares if everyone over in another country is tickled pink over something, if a client elsewhere is dissatisfied, that is just pretentiousness. This is why in years past Guerlain, and other companies, have created different products for the Asian market, the South American market, the Middle East etc...
    They used to understand how different the world markets were, obviously this is a memory long gone.
    I truly feel that the fine people at Guerlain and other companies, Caron in particular also, are just ignoring the situation at hand, the drop in quality, yes I will reiterate for all, THE DROP IN QUALITY. I have used Guerlain, Caron, Dior, Chanel and all the other grand parfumeries scents since I was a child in the early 70's, my mother since she was a young woman in the 40's, we both notice the lack of substance and quality in almost "every" scent we now try. So please feel rest assured, I completely concur with you and your stance. I also have to say to those speaking out about the tone of your note; I have sent hundreds of "pleasant" emails, my natural french politesse intact, not a single one received more than a patronizing form letter. Obviously you have touched a nerve with your fabulous american "bluntness", she did reply personally did she not
    So I give you kudos on speaking out so frankly about this horreur that has befallen all of our favorites. I personally have just decided to never purchase fragrance again, unless I find vintage at estate sales or consignment shops. I truly feel "to hell with Guerlain and all of the other players in this travesty", I refuse to accept mediocrity and I thought others would feel the same. Unfortunately you seem to be the only other person who feels as strongly about this as I do. I wish everyone would keep in mind, continued purchasing of reformulations will just reinforce the decision these companies have made; to cheapen product, under the guise of a law, while continuing to reap phenomenal profits, just because they are confident clients can be led like sheep.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  19. #19

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by ManlyScent View Post
    Considering the fact the US is 40 times larger than France and the richest country in the world.
    Here, you weren't referring to sales - this remark was made outside of that context.

  20. #20

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    I unfortunately have never smelled any of the vintage Guerlain products, but based on the comments and the passion of those that have, I respect that the new formulations are inferior. And as to the reasons for the reformulations; laws may be a reason for it, but I am sure if Guerlain is increasing profit margin because of the laws, they will just protest enough to look concerned, but not protest with their heart on the customers.

  21. #21

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by ManlyScent View Post
    Read my post above. I provided the sales numbers fromt he LVMH website. US is their highest consumer.

    Equally disrespectful, is them ignoring their higest consumer market.
    LVMH is a huge conglomerate of which Guerlain is only a minor part. Citing sales figures for LVMH proves nothing about Guerlain's sales.
    Last edited by surreality; 24th April 2009 at 04:44 PM.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  22. #22

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Could everyone here stop focusing on the smaller details of the letter and try to focus on the issue at hand.
    Guerlain is pulling a classic bait and switch, yet everyone here is dissecting Manlyscents letter, instead of looking at the essence of it.
    This is why these companies do not care anymore.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  23. #23

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Not really familar with Guerlain reformulations, particularly the "womens" scent, but I do have first hand experience with Hermes' Equipage & Bel Ami. The scents you mentioned smell remarkably composed and good but then again, I've not smelled the vintage versions to see how they were changed.

    On one hand, like Sylvaine said, they have to comply with EU laws so stuff like Oak Moss gets scrapped for the synthetic which helps carry on the legacy of the perfume. On the other hand, Guerlain and others should be more upfront about changing their juices so that grandmothers who've been wearing Jicky for years aren't dupped into buying product that's been altered and doesn't smell like the old juice.

    How'd you get her contact details? Interesting that she has Gmail but maybe that's her personal email? Even more interesting she replied back to you.
    "I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."

    Egon Schiele - Self-Potrait


    My classics: Dior Homme EdT, YSL Rive Gauche PH, Helmut Lang Cuiron, L'Occitane Neroli (vintage), Davidoff Zino, L'Occitane Eau des Baux

    http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/2976

  24. #24

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Brielle87, that is so well put! Pulling the thread back from all the silly 'which country is the richest' arguments, as the old, tired saying goes, "The squeaky wheel gets the oil". Sometimes there is a need to be blunt, and yes, maybe a bit loud in order to get results.

  25. #25

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    From the 2008 sales report.

    "The brand [Guerlain] confirmed its momentum in all geographic zones,
    particularly in its priority markets – France, Russia, Japan and
    China."

    Despite ManlyScents assertions the US seems not to be one of Guerlain's "priority market."

    Source: http://www.lvmh.com/comfi/pdf_gbr/LV...0documents.pdf page 13.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  26. #26

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Also, just for those who are not familiar with the law; any scent that has been in production before the law came about is "grandfathered", that is to say they just have to put a warning label on their packaging. Since most companies have chosen to reformulate, we know it is a profit issue, not an allergen one.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  27. #27

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    Could everyone here stop focusing on the smaller details of the letter and try to focus on the issue at hand.
    Guerlain is pulling a classic bait and switch, yet everyone here is dissecting Manlyscents letter, instead of looking at the essence of it.
    This is why these companies do not care anymore.
    The essence of ManlyScent's letter was based on false "facts". If one is going to make an argument, the conclusion can only be valid and sound if the premises are true.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  28. #28

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri View Post
    Here, you weren't referring to sales - this remark was made outside of that context.
    Honestly, yes it was. I'm was born in Central America to French and American parents. Latter moved to US, Brazil and back to the US. I speake fluent French, English, Spanish and Portuguese. I understand my language sounded offensive. However, understand why I said it.

    I love the whole world and if you read my email I told her we here love France. At the same time I find offensive that French companies, such as Dior, Guerlain, Annick Goutal, like to offer exclusive to French only products. Completey ignoring the US market.

    That's is why I chose that language. Which mind you I do regret. I should have used facts. However, whether the US is the poorest or richest country is irrelevant. The principal is that they should listen to everyone including the countries that only represent %1 of sales.

    However, she is the one who brought up the improtance of the French market. So therefore, I wanted to make her aware where most of the sales come from.
    Last edited by ManlyScent; 24th April 2009 at 04:57 PM.

  29. #29

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    Could everyone here stop focusing on the smaller details of the letter and try to focus on the issue at hand.
    Guerlain is pulling a classic bait and switch, yet everyone here is dissecting Manlyscents letter, instead of looking at the essence of it.
    This is why these companies do not care anymore.
    That's because we all know that the quality of the current formulations is crap. We also know that us lamenting that fact isn't going to change anything.
    Looking to swap/buy/receive for free () the following samples/decants:
    Indult Tihota & Rêve en Cuir
    Chant d'Aromes extrait
    Vetiver pour Elle (5ml decant)


    Selling/swapping:
    Versace The Dreamer 50ml (1.7oz) BNIB
    ---

    "The Sunshine bores the daylights outta me!"
    http://polderposh.blogspot.com/

  30. #30

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    The essence of ManlyScent's letter was based on false "facts". If one is going to make an argument, the conclusion can only be valid and sound if the premises are true.
    Your logic is wonderful, precise and oh so commendable, yet it is still distracting and taking focus away from the issue at hand.
    Let us not become mired in the minutiae.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  31. #31

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Manlyscent, mon cher, please stop apologizing, there is no need for apology.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  32. #32

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlino View Post
    That's because we all know that the quality of the current formulations is crap. We also know that us lamenting that fact isn't going to change anything.
    True, but if our dollars stop rolling in, then they have to listen and eventually make changes.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  33. #33

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    I bet that if there were a blind smell test between the old formulations and the new, the majority of BN'ers would not be able to tell the difference.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  34. #34
    ECaruthers's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Bonjour Aaron,

    I sympathesize with your frustrations. To make your letters more successful in changing the recipient's behavior, I recommend Jay Heinrichs' recent book on rhetoric, Thank You For Arguing. In it he does not say, "You'll sell more perfume if you formulate with honey than with vinegar." I said that. But he does say a lot about ways to change the way the other person feels, thinks and acts. One part is establishing sympathy. Show you are on Guerlain's side, that you wish them continued success. I think your first letter was good. I can think of two additional points that might have been useful in your second letter.
    "In my business we have found that only a small fraction of dissatisfied customers actually return products."
    "I sympathize with the problems that EU regulations are causing your company. If it will be helpful, please forward my letter and the many discussions at the BaseNotes forum to those responsible for future regulations."

  35. #35

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    True, but if our dollars stop rolling in, then they have to listen and eventually make changes.
    Yes, if everyone would stop buying Guerlain but let's be honest, we Basenoters - i.e. the people that care enough to complain - represent maybe 0,0001% of the world's fragrance-wearing population.
    Looking to swap/buy/receive for free () the following samples/decants:
    Indult Tihota & Rêve en Cuir
    Chant d'Aromes extrait
    Vetiver pour Elle (5ml decant)


    Selling/swapping:
    Versace The Dreamer 50ml (1.7oz) BNIB
    ---

    "The Sunshine bores the daylights outta me!"
    http://polderposh.blogspot.com/

  36. #36

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    I bet that if there were a blind smell test between the old formulations and the new, the majority of BN'ers would not be able to tell the difference.
    Have you ever done this comparison or even smelled vintage formulations yourself? I don't know whether the others that complain have or not, but I have and the difference is dramatic.
    Looking to swap/buy/receive for free () the following samples/decants:
    Indult Tihota & Rêve en Cuir
    Chant d'Aromes extrait
    Vetiver pour Elle (5ml decant)


    Selling/swapping:
    Versace The Dreamer 50ml (1.7oz) BNIB
    ---

    "The Sunshine bores the daylights outta me!"
    http://polderposh.blogspot.com/

  37. #37

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    I have only tried Mitsuoko in vintage vs new formulations and there is a very dramatic difference between the two and Im no expert ....

    Either way it was very nice of her to reply to the message , kudos to her for that

  38. #38

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    More letters to Guerlain and other members of the destructive union of perfumers world wide!
    I wish I knew who exactly they are. IFRA volunteered to be law makers, and its members now hide behind Bruxelles? That's how European governments usually deny any responsibility. And IFF is held totally innocent of it all ?
    Last edited by narcus; 24th April 2009 at 05:27 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  39. #39

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlino View Post
    Have you ever done this comparison or even smelled vintage formulations yourself? I don't know whether the others that complain have or not, but I have and the difference is dramatic.
    Same here, that's why I refuse to buy new versions of some of my old favorites. But as much as I hate to admit it, most people can't tell the difference, nor do they care if there is one. That's why these companies continue to reformulate. It's obviously not hurting them financially, and that's the bottom line.

  40. #40

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    I bet that if there were a blind smell test between the old formulations and the new, the majority of BN'ers would not be able to tell the difference.
    Not only am I able to tell the difference between vintage and modern reformulations, I am also able to detect different decades the scents were produced in, Miss Dior is the easiest to do this with if anyone is curious; I am also able to tell the difference between Extrait, EDP, EDT and cologne.
    Besides fragrance i am able to tell the difference between Godiva chocolat produced here in the states and that produced in Belgium. I also can very easily tell the difference between Lindt Lindor truffles produced here in the states (the ones found at all Lindt stores and outlets here in the USA) which are manufactured in Stratham New Hampshire and the ones produced in Switzerland; this always baffled my ex-husband, who would blindfold me to make sure I did not cheat.

    So as you can see, I am able to discern the differences and I used to spend amazing amounts of money on Guerlain, not anymore though.
    Last edited by Brielle87; 24th April 2009 at 05:33 PM.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  41. #41

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    If people really want the companies and the laws to change then complaining on an internet forum or writing letters filled with false assertions is not the way to do it. If people really care then why don't you all find a catchy name (like the Campaign for Real Perfume), register as a non-profit organization, find a way to raise funds, raise awareness among consumers and challenge these laws as a united voice.
    Last edited by surreality; 24th April 2009 at 05:45 PM.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  42. #42

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    I am able to discern the differences and I used to spend amazing amounts of money on Guerlain, not anymore though.
    Are you a "majority of basenoters" or one of a very select few with a good nose and palette?
    Last edited by surreality; 24th April 2009 at 05:45 PM.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  43. #43

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Who is this lady and whats her role at Guerlain? A nose? A "creative director"? A marketing manager?

    She seems to have become the face of Guerlain ... whatever happened to T. Wasser ?
    -

  44. #44

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    I love reading this passion... I just hope I can continue sniffing it.
    The Bark Bites Back.

  45. #45

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Of course it is sad when the synonym of French perfume culture throws its Héritage on the dump - but hey, what do you expect from a LVMH company? I agree it's a sham to just be pinning the blame on the EU here. The EU commission usually always does was what big business wants it to do, why should this be different?

    As to the quality of contemporary perfumes, I see a parallel to the development in the wine world. No one is ever going to make another '47 Cheval Blanc. But while the mass of wines has become a standardized industrial product, oak-chipped, spinning-coned, Parkerized, deregionalized, many small winemakers, in a parallel development, rediscovered terroir, biodynamics and individuality and are producing wonderful wines not suited to mass tastes. Our hope must rest on visionaries, irreverent geniuses, independent perfumers, authentic niche, people driven by their love of the thing itself, not shareholder value. As long as I can read John Updike or Toni Morrisson I'll accept that 99% of the market will always belong to pulp fiction. Now what I'd REALLY like is some excentric millionaire to analyze the vintage guerlains and carons and start making the real thing under different names -call it "Gallia Perfumery"
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  46. #46

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    Are you a "majority of basenoters" or one of a very select few with a good nose and palette?
    I think the point here is that when it comes to art, it's irrelevant whether the masses can appreciate it or not, and it's usually the case that they don't. The majority of humans on the planet cannot discern the difference between a sax solo from John Coltrane and one from Kenny G, thank goodness there was someone that believed in Coltrane or else his art would be lost forever. The same with fragrance, it does not matter whether the majority of people here or anywhere else can tell the difference, art is being butchered, and that's never a good thing.

  47. #47

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by joxer96 View Post
    I think the point here is that when it comes to art, it's irrelevant whether the masses can appreciate it or not, and it's usually the case that they don't. The majority of humans on the planet cannot discern the difference between a sax solo from John Coltrane and one from Kenny G, thank goodness there was someone that believed in Coltrane or else his art would be lost forever. The same with fragrance, it does not matter whether the majority of people here or anywhere else can tell the difference, art is being butchered, and that's never a good thing.
    I agree. The fragrance industry is no different than any other industry or government....It is all about money, power, and greed; each of these three fuel one another like a storm brewing in the ocean. If there are no checks and balances, the end result in never pretty.

  48. #48

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Mademoiselle Sylvaine has responded below:

    I must agree, this lady is classy and knows how to respond with sympathy. I'm glad she is the director.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dear Mr.

    I agree with you Guerlain is like the Joconde! A real master piece of art, we have to respect that! It is a huge problem, we do love the Guerlain products , we have a lot of respect for our patrimony, we fight every day to preserve it , it is a hard job, it takes a longtime! It is not by pleasure we have to change (a little bit) the formulas, at the same time to respect the law and to please to our faithful customers! I will check the figures when I will be back in my office, next week: the results of shalimar (France and US,) may be you are right! But in the heart of French people Guerlain is very "High" and again we don't have so many complaints! Shalimar is in good health! The results are increasing, but wait a little bit; I will give you more details, next week. I don't want to fight with you!!

    To finish, we could in the future, with new ingredients, with news discovers, with new technologies, succeed to get it better!

    Thanks for your attentions
    Delacourte
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Below is the email she is answering to.

    My apologies about my previous email. I realized, I came across as very
    arrogant. I should have used numbers and facts to state my point.

    Below are the sales posted on www.lvmh.com . As you see, The US is the
    largest market. Not France.

    2003 sales by regions

    USA %26
    Europe%21
    France %17
    Japan %16
    Asia %13
    Others $7

    2004 Sales by Regions
    USA %27
    Europe%19
    France%17
    Japan%15
    Asia%16

  49. #49

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    1. Why would she have a Gmail address?
    2. Why would she take the time to answer customers' mails directly?
    3. How do you know you're not chatting with some customer support?
    4. Are you aware that fragrance connaisseurs who oppose 'formula changes' are probably responsible for less than 0.01% of Guerlain's revenue?
    Last edited by Stereotomy; 24th April 2009 at 07:12 PM.
    Wanted: a cap of Bvlgari Thé Vert

    Wanted: L' Artisan Timbuktu or Fragonard Concerto

    Feel free to visit Polderposh - a young up & coming Dutch fragrance blog!

  50. #50

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by ManlyScent View Post
    Equally disrespectful, is them ignoring their higest consumer market.
    Yes. They are ignoring it because they want to make as few sales as possible. Do you understand?

    Wanted: a cap of Bvlgari Thé Vert

    Wanted: L' Artisan Timbuktu or Fragonard Concerto

    Feel free to visit Polderposh - a young up & coming Dutch fragrance blog!

  51. #51

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Stereotomy View Post
    1. Why would she have an Gmail address?
    2. Why would she take the time to answer customers' mails directly
    3. How do you know you're not chatting with some customer support
    4. Are you aware that fragrance connaisseurs who oppose 'formula changes' are probably responsible for less than 0.01% of Guerlain's revenue?
    Do I sense a hint of doubt here?
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  52. #52

    Talking Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    Do I sense a hint of doubt here?
    Your words, not mine.

    Wanted: a cap of Bvlgari Thé Vert

    Wanted: L' Artisan Timbuktu or Fragonard Concerto

    Feel free to visit Polderposh - a young up & coming Dutch fragrance blog!

  53. #53

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Manly Scent.

    I definitely agree with the intent of your message to Guerlain's Creative department. However, the bold comment about how rich and much larger the U.S. market is (5X not 40X!) probably closed the door on serious consideration of your complaint. In the eyes of most people in France, the average person in the U.S. is a pompous self involved, deluded ass. I don't believe you or I fit that description, but that is the French perspective of Americans - it is what it is. I have relatives who live in France and my son is married to beautiful french girl, and it is difficult for them to get rid of the "Ugly American" syndrome.

    Actually when you remove all the anti American bias, the french people are more like Americans than any of the other citizens of Europe, including the British, in my opinion. But, they are prejudiced against our self centered attitudes because, they have that very same attitude themselves!
    Last edited by Buzzlepuff; 24th April 2009 at 07:22 PM.

  54. #54

    Default Guerlain's Response To Letter

    In hopes to refocus on the point of my previous post.

    Mademoiselle Sylvaine has responded below:

    I must agree, this lady is graceful and knows how to respond with sympathy. I'm glad she is Guerlains director.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dear Mr.

    I agree with you Guerlain is like the Joconde(Mona Lisa)! A real master piece of art, we have to respect that! It is a huge problem, we do love the Guerlain products , we have a lot of respect for our patrimony, we fight every day to preserve it , it is a hard job, it takes a longtime! It is not by pleasure we have to change (a little bit) the formulas, at the same time to respect the law and to please to our faithful customers! I will check the figures when I will be back in my office, next week: the results of shalimar (France and US,) may be you are right! But in the heart of French people Guerlain is very "High" and again we don't have so many complaints! Shalimar is in good health! The results are increasing, but wait a little bit; I will give you more details, next week. I don't want to fight with you!!

    To finish, we could in the future, with new ingredients, with news discovers, with new technologies, succeed to get it better!

    Thanks for your attentions
    Delacourte
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Below is the email she is answering to.

    My apologies about my previous email. I realized, I came across as very
    arrogant. I should have used numbers and facts to state my point.

    Below are the sales posted on www.lvmh.com . As you see, The US is the
    largest market. Not France.

    2003 sales by regions

    USA %26
    Europe%21
    France %17
    Japan %16
    Asia %13
    Others $7

    2004 Sales by Regions
    USA %27
    Europe%19
    France%17
    Japan%15
    Asia%16
    Last edited by ManlyScent; 24th April 2009 at 07:24 PM.

  55. #55

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    You are missing the point by putting YOUR views on the subject as 'the view of the mainstream American consumer'. You are not. We are not.

    You're completely missing the point here.
    Wanted: a cap of Bvlgari Thé Vert

    Wanted: L' Artisan Timbuktu or Fragonard Concerto

    Feel free to visit Polderposh - a young up & coming Dutch fragrance blog!

  56. #56

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Le critique de parfum View Post
    You did good ManlyScent. Sylvaine is so down to earth and she handles criticism like no one!

    Sure I don't love all her creations but I adore her as a woman. Pure class.

    Do you know if she's dating anyone?

  57. #57

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Yeah she's hot. I love her haircut.
    Wanted: a cap of Bvlgari Thé Vert

    Wanted: L' Artisan Timbuktu or Fragonard Concerto

    Feel free to visit Polderposh - a young up & coming Dutch fragrance blog!

  58. #58

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    I also can very easily tell the difference between Lindt Lindor truffles produced here in the states (the ones found at all Lindt stores and outlets here in the USA) which are manufactured in Stratham New Hampshire and the ones produced in Switzerland; this always baffled my ex-husband, who would blindfold me to make sure I did not cheat.
    .
    It's funny, I was by chance eating a Lindor Truffle as I was reading this thread and I had to laugh when I saw this part. I had to run and look at the bag and see where it was made... New Hampshire. I know what you mean Brielle-- I don't have enough experience with chocolate truffles to know the difference, but I've always been able to tell by taste whether a can of Red Bull was made in Switzerland or Austria.

  59. #59

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    She was remarkably gracious and I think it was wise you sent her your note of apology.

    Peace

  60. #60

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Stereotomy View Post
    Yeah she's hot. I love her haircut.
    And imagine how good she smells...
    Last edited by adonis; 24th April 2009 at 07:41 PM.

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