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  1. #31
    Brielle87's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Manlyscent, mon cher, please stop apologizing, there is no need for apology.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  2. #32
    Brielle87's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlino View Post
    That's because we all know that the quality of the current formulations is crap. We also know that us lamenting that fact isn't going to change anything.
    True, but if our dollars stop rolling in, then they have to listen and eventually make changes.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  3. #33

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    I bet that if there were a blind smell test between the old formulations and the new, the majority of BN'ers would not be able to tell the difference.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  4. #34
    ECaruthers's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Bonjour Aaron,

    I sympathesize with your frustrations. To make your letters more successful in changing the recipient's behavior, I recommend Jay Heinrichs' recent book on rhetoric, Thank You For Arguing. In it he does not say, "You'll sell more perfume if you formulate with honey than with vinegar." I said that. But he does say a lot about ways to change the way the other person feels, thinks and acts. One part is establishing sympathy. Show you are on Guerlain's side, that you wish them continued success. I think your first letter was good. I can think of two additional points that might have been useful in your second letter.
    "In my business we have found that only a small fraction of dissatisfied customers actually return products."
    "I sympathize with the problems that EU regulations are causing your company. If it will be helpful, please forward my letter and the many discussions at the BaseNotes forum to those responsible for future regulations."

  5. #35
    Merlino's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    True, but if our dollars stop rolling in, then they have to listen and eventually make changes.
    Yes, if everyone would stop buying Guerlain but let's be honest, we Basenoters - i.e. the people that care enough to complain - represent maybe 0,0001% of the world's fragrance-wearing population.
    Looking to swap/buy/receive for free () the following samples/decants:
    Indult Tihota & Rêve en Cuir
    Chant d'Aromes extrait
    Vetiver pour Elle (5ml decant)


    Selling/swapping:
    Versace The Dreamer 50ml (1.7oz) BNIB
    ---

    "The Sunshine bores the daylights outta me!"
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  6. #36
    Merlino's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    I bet that if there were a blind smell test between the old formulations and the new, the majority of BN'ers would not be able to tell the difference.
    Have you ever done this comparison or even smelled vintage formulations yourself? I don't know whether the others that complain have or not, but I have and the difference is dramatic.
    Looking to swap/buy/receive for free () the following samples/decants:
    Indult Tihota & Rêve en Cuir
    Chant d'Aromes extrait
    Vetiver pour Elle (5ml decant)


    Selling/swapping:
    Versace The Dreamer 50ml (1.7oz) BNIB
    ---

    "The Sunshine bores the daylights outta me!"
    http://polderposh.blogspot.com/

  7. #37

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    I have only tried Mitsuoko in vintage vs new formulations and there is a very dramatic difference between the two and Im no expert ....

    Either way it was very nice of her to reply to the message , kudos to her for that

  8. #38

    narcus's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    More letters to Guerlain and other members of the destructive union of perfumers world wide!
    I wish I knew who exactly they are. IFRA volunteered to be law makers, and its members now hide behind Bruxelles? That's how European governments usually deny any responsibility. And IFF is held totally innocent of it all ?
    Last edited by narcus; 24th April 2009 at 05:27 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  9. #39

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlino View Post
    Have you ever done this comparison or even smelled vintage formulations yourself? I don't know whether the others that complain have or not, but I have and the difference is dramatic.
    Same here, that's why I refuse to buy new versions of some of my old favorites. But as much as I hate to admit it, most people can't tell the difference, nor do they care if there is one. That's why these companies continue to reformulate. It's obviously not hurting them financially, and that's the bottom line.

  10. #40
    Brielle87's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    I bet that if there were a blind smell test between the old formulations and the new, the majority of BN'ers would not be able to tell the difference.
    Not only am I able to tell the difference between vintage and modern reformulations, I am also able to detect different decades the scents were produced in, Miss Dior is the easiest to do this with if anyone is curious; I am also able to tell the difference between Extrait, EDP, EDT and cologne.
    Besides fragrance i am able to tell the difference between Godiva chocolat produced here in the states and that produced in Belgium. I also can very easily tell the difference between Lindt Lindor truffles produced here in the states (the ones found at all Lindt stores and outlets here in the USA) which are manufactured in Stratham New Hampshire and the ones produced in Switzerland; this always baffled my ex-husband, who would blindfold me to make sure I did not cheat.

    So as you can see, I am able to discern the differences and I used to spend amazing amounts of money on Guerlain, not anymore though.
    Last edited by Brielle87; 24th April 2009 at 05:33 PM.
    Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source

  11. #41

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    If people really want the companies and the laws to change then complaining on an internet forum or writing letters filled with false assertions is not the way to do it. If people really care then why don't you all find a catchy name (like the Campaign for Real Perfume), register as a non-profit organization, find a way to raise funds, raise awareness among consumers and challenge these laws as a united voice.
    Last edited by surreality; 24th April 2009 at 05:45 PM.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  12. #42

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    I am able to discern the differences and I used to spend amazing amounts of money on Guerlain, not anymore though.
    Are you a "majority of basenoters" or one of a very select few with a good nose and palette?
    Last edited by surreality; 24th April 2009 at 05:45 PM.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  13. #43
    zztopp's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Who is this lady and whats her role at Guerlain? A nose? A "creative director"? A marketing manager?

    She seems to have become the face of Guerlain ... whatever happened to T. Wasser ?
    -

  14. #44

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    I love reading this passion... I just hope I can continue sniffing it.
    The Bark Bites Back on film here --> https://thebarkbitesback.wordpress.com

  15. #45

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Of course it is sad when the synonym of French perfume culture throws its Héritage on the dump - but hey, what do you expect from a LVMH company? I agree it's a sham to just be pinning the blame on the EU here. The EU commission usually always does was what big business wants it to do, why should this be different?

    As to the quality of contemporary perfumes, I see a parallel to the development in the wine world. No one is ever going to make another '47 Cheval Blanc. But while the mass of wines has become a standardized industrial product, oak-chipped, spinning-coned, Parkerized, deregionalized, many small winemakers, in a parallel development, rediscovered terroir, biodynamics and individuality and are producing wonderful wines not suited to mass tastes. Our hope must rest on visionaries, irreverent geniuses, independent perfumers, authentic niche, people driven by their love of the thing itself, not shareholder value. As long as I can read John Updike or Toni Morrisson I'll accept that 99% of the market will always belong to pulp fiction. Now what I'd REALLY like is some excentric millionaire to analyze the vintage guerlains and carons and start making the real thing under different names -call it "Gallia Perfumery"
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  16. #46

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    Are you a "majority of basenoters" or one of a very select few with a good nose and palette?
    I think the point here is that when it comes to art, it's irrelevant whether the masses can appreciate it or not, and it's usually the case that they don't. The majority of humans on the planet cannot discern the difference between a sax solo from John Coltrane and one from Kenny G, thank goodness there was someone that believed in Coltrane or else his art would be lost forever. The same with fragrance, it does not matter whether the majority of people here or anywhere else can tell the difference, art is being butchered, and that's never a good thing.

  17. #47

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by joxer96 View Post
    I think the point here is that when it comes to art, it's irrelevant whether the masses can appreciate it or not, and it's usually the case that they don't. The majority of humans on the planet cannot discern the difference between a sax solo from John Coltrane and one from Kenny G, thank goodness there was someone that believed in Coltrane or else his art would be lost forever. The same with fragrance, it does not matter whether the majority of people here or anywhere else can tell the difference, art is being butchered, and that's never a good thing.
    I agree. The fragrance industry is no different than any other industry or government....It is all about money, power, and greed; each of these three fuel one another like a storm brewing in the ocean. If there are no checks and balances, the end result in never pretty.

  18. #48

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Mademoiselle Sylvaine has responded below:

    I must agree, this lady is classy and knows how to respond with sympathy. I'm glad she is the director.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dear Mr.

    I agree with you Guerlain is like the Joconde! A real master piece of art, we have to respect that! It is a huge problem, we do love the Guerlain products , we have a lot of respect for our patrimony, we fight every day to preserve it , it is a hard job, it takes a longtime! It is not by pleasure we have to change (a little bit) the formulas, at the same time to respect the law and to please to our faithful customers! I will check the figures when I will be back in my office, next week: the results of shalimar (France and US,) may be you are right! But in the heart of French people Guerlain is very "High" and again we don't have so many complaints! Shalimar is in good health! The results are increasing, but wait a little bit; I will give you more details, next week. I don't want to fight with you!!

    To finish, we could in the future, with new ingredients, with news discovers, with new technologies, succeed to get it better!

    Thanks for your attentions
    Delacourte
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Below is the email she is answering to.

    My apologies about my previous email. I realized, I came across as very
    arrogant. I should have used numbers and facts to state my point.

    Below are the sales posted on www.lvmh.com . As you see, The US is the
    largest market. Not France.

    2003 sales by regions

    USA %26
    Europe%21
    France %17
    Japan %16
    Asia %13
    Others $7

    2004 Sales by Regions
    USA %27
    Europe%19
    France%17
    Japan%15
    Asia%16

  19. #49

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    1. Why would she have a Gmail address?
    2. Why would she take the time to answer customers' mails directly?
    3. How do you know you're not chatting with some customer support?
    4. Are you aware that fragrance connaisseurs who oppose 'formula changes' are probably responsible for less than 0.01% of Guerlain's revenue?
    Last edited by Stereotomy; 24th April 2009 at 07:12 PM.
    Wanted: a cap of Bvlgari Thé Vert

    Wanted: L' Artisan Timbuktu or Fragonard Concerto

    Feel free to visit Polderposh - a young up & coming Dutch fragrance blog!

  20. #50

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by ManlyScent View Post
    Equally disrespectful, is them ignoring their higest consumer market.
    Yes. They are ignoring it because they want to make as few sales as possible. Do you understand?

    Wanted: a cap of Bvlgari Thé Vert

    Wanted: L' Artisan Timbuktu or Fragonard Concerto

    Feel free to visit Polderposh - a young up & coming Dutch fragrance blog!

  21. #51

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Stereotomy View Post
    1. Why would she have an Gmail address?
    2. Why would she take the time to answer customers' mails directly
    3. How do you know you're not chatting with some customer support
    4. Are you aware that fragrance connaisseurs who oppose 'formula changes' are probably responsible for less than 0.01% of Guerlain's revenue?
    Do I sense a hint of doubt here?
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  22. #52

    Talking Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    Do I sense a hint of doubt here?
    Your words, not mine.

    Wanted: a cap of Bvlgari Thé Vert

    Wanted: L' Artisan Timbuktu or Fragonard Concerto

    Feel free to visit Polderposh - a young up & coming Dutch fragrance blog!

  23. #53

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Manly Scent.

    I definitely agree with the intent of your message to Guerlain's Creative department. However, the bold comment about how rich and much larger the U.S. market is (5X not 40X!) probably closed the door on serious consideration of your complaint. In the eyes of most people in France, the average person in the U.S. is a pompous self involved, deluded ass. I don't believe you or I fit that description, but that is the French perspective of Americans - it is what it is. I have relatives who live in France and my son is married to beautiful french girl, and it is difficult for them to get rid of the "Ugly American" syndrome.

    Actually when you remove all the anti American bias, the french people are more like Americans than any of the other citizens of Europe, including the British, in my opinion. But, they are prejudiced against our self centered attitudes because, they have that very same attitude themselves!
    Last edited by Buzzlepuff; 24th April 2009 at 07:22 PM.

  24. #54

    Default Guerlain's Response To Letter

    In hopes to refocus on the point of my previous post.

    Mademoiselle Sylvaine has responded below:

    I must agree, this lady is graceful and knows how to respond with sympathy. I'm glad she is Guerlains director.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dear Mr.

    I agree with you Guerlain is like the Joconde(Mona Lisa)! A real master piece of art, we have to respect that! It is a huge problem, we do love the Guerlain products , we have a lot of respect for our patrimony, we fight every day to preserve it , it is a hard job, it takes a longtime! It is not by pleasure we have to change (a little bit) the formulas, at the same time to respect the law and to please to our faithful customers! I will check the figures when I will be back in my office, next week: the results of shalimar (France and US,) may be you are right! But in the heart of French people Guerlain is very "High" and again we don't have so many complaints! Shalimar is in good health! The results are increasing, but wait a little bit; I will give you more details, next week. I don't want to fight with you!!

    To finish, we could in the future, with new ingredients, with news discovers, with new technologies, succeed to get it better!

    Thanks for your attentions
    Delacourte
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Below is the email she is answering to.

    My apologies about my previous email. I realized, I came across as very
    arrogant. I should have used numbers and facts to state my point.

    Below are the sales posted on www.lvmh.com . As you see, The US is the
    largest market. Not France.

    2003 sales by regions

    USA %26
    Europe%21
    France %17
    Japan %16
    Asia %13
    Others $7

    2004 Sales by Regions
    USA %27
    Europe%19
    France%17
    Japan%15
    Asia%16
    Last edited by ManlyScent; 24th April 2009 at 07:24 PM.

  25. #55

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    You are missing the point by putting YOUR views on the subject as 'the view of the mainstream American consumer'. You are not. We are not.

    You're completely missing the point here.
    Wanted: a cap of Bvlgari Thé Vert

    Wanted: L' Artisan Timbuktu or Fragonard Concerto

    Feel free to visit Polderposh - a young up & coming Dutch fragrance blog!

  26. #56
    adonis's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Le critique de parfum View Post
    You did good ManlyScent. Sylvaine is so down to earth and she handles criticism like no one!

    Sure I don't love all her creations but I adore her as a woman. Pure class.

    Do you know if she's dating anyone?

  27. #57

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Yeah she's hot. I love her haircut.
    Wanted: a cap of Bvlgari Thé Vert

    Wanted: L' Artisan Timbuktu or Fragonard Concerto

    Feel free to visit Polderposh - a young up & coming Dutch fragrance blog!

  28. #58

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    I also can very easily tell the difference between Lindt Lindor truffles produced here in the states (the ones found at all Lindt stores and outlets here in the USA) which are manufactured in Stratham New Hampshire and the ones produced in Switzerland; this always baffled my ex-husband, who would blindfold me to make sure I did not cheat.
    .
    It's funny, I was by chance eating a Lindor Truffle as I was reading this thread and I had to laugh when I saw this part. I had to run and look at the bag and see where it was made... New Hampshire. I know what you mean Brielle-- I don't have enough experience with chocolate truffles to know the difference, but I've always been able to tell by taste whether a can of Red Bull was made in Switzerland or Austria.

  29. #59
    jakekny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    She was remarkably gracious and I think it was wise you sent her your note of apology.

    Peace

  30. #60
    adonis's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Stereotomy View Post
    Yeah she's hot. I love her haircut.
    And imagine how good she smells...
    Last edited by adonis; 24th April 2009 at 07:41 PM.

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