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  1. #61

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by adonis View Post
    And imagine how good she smells...
    ... according to ManlyScents and Brielle not as good as she smelt did 20 years ago.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  2. #62

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Quote Originally Posted by Stereotomy View Post
    You are missing the point by putting YOUR views on the subject as 'the view of the mainstream American consumer'. You are not. We are not.

    You're completely missing the point here.
    If this was just about frangrances than yes, you would be correct.

    However, understand that a Guerlain fragance has been a part of history for 180 years. Its lovers include kings, queens, poets, writers, actors and actres and everyday people such as myself. It frangrances have been written in songs, poems, and even movies.

    Mouchoir de Monsieur was keept in productions by people you would consider crazy and eccentric such as King Carlos of Spain. If crazy and eccentric is what it takes than so be it.

    Guerlain inspires crazyness and even "obsession" as the writer Colette stated.

    Guerlain gives voice to the past, present and future. This is not about sales or makets. Its about art, history and passion.
    Last edited by ManlyScent; 24th April 2009 at 07:56 PM.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter



    Erm. This is for the whole LVMH group, including Acqua di Parma and Kenzo. France has double the revenue of the US.

    But again, this is not the point. You are acting like you're the only customer of Guerlain, and that they should cater exactly to YOUR wishes or they're doomed. Because you are against their reformulations. Because you love vintage Shalimar and L' Heure Bleue.

    It's not about you. It's about the mainstream consumers and how Guerlain can keep up or increase brand equity while upping up revenue.

    No offence, but if they'd switch their strategy to accommodate you and ' preserve their 180 years of history ' they would have to ask for government bailout in less than a year.
    Last edited by Stereotomy; 24th April 2009 at 07:57 PM.
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  4. #64
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Sylvaine is going to be at the Guerlain Counter in Nieman Marcus (San Francisco) on May 2nd, in case somebody wants to take their concerns to her :-)
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  5. #65

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Guerlain gives voice to the past, present and future. This is not about sales or makets. Its about art, history and passion.
    Oh I see. I didn't know Guerlain was an NGO.

    By the way, who started talking where the ' biggest market' was and something about ignoring potential sales to customers in that biggest market?
    Last edited by Stereotomy; 24th April 2009 at 08:00 PM.
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  6. #66

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    And imagine how good she smells...

    we all want to continue to smell as good

    I too sent an email to Guerlain about ten days ago (having opened my new bottle of Jicky EDT ), however, since I only sent it via the contact section on the site all I got back was a reply asking for the batch number.

    I've been wearing Jicky for years and couldn't imagine not owning it but the latest EDT is different. The lovely sharp blast of an opening is almost gone and there is something that smells vaguely as if a baby had been sick on me - which I find offputting to say the least - although it does wear off and become bearable. It's no longer the joy it was.

    When they say 'wait a while' they probably mean that most people will eventually forget what the original was like without a base of comparison
    Last edited by pofox; 24th April 2009 at 08:02 PM. Reason: I messed up using the 'quote'

  7. #67

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    For them to survive for 180 years (beside the quality and as you said it the art and passion of Guerlain perfumes) I am sure someone had to pay at least some attention to markets and sales. But this might be just that Marketing course I took long ago talking.

  8. #68

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by surreality View Post
    ... according to ManlyScents and Brielle not as good as she smelt did 20 years ago.
    Doubtful, she probably has access to vintage formulations. Which brings to mind the following, why don't they release a 'Vintage Formulations' line? Guerlain could market it to their more discerning clientele, I bet it would go over very well. Of course there's all the IFRA bull, but where there's a will there's a way. They probably only follow the guidelines because it means more profit anyway.

  9. #69


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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Stereotomy View Post
    1. Why would she have a Gmail address?
    2. Why would she take the time to answer customers' mails directly?
    3. How do you know you're not chatting with some customer support?
    4. Are you aware that fragrance connaisseurs who oppose 'formula changes' are probably responsible for less than 0.01% of Guerlain's revenue?
    You read my mind.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    I have the highest respect for Brielle's point of view, unfortunately I don't share her breadth of experience. As soneone who has only collected for a few years, I still find Guerlain products to be head and shoulders above most other houses. The fact that so many experienced people find that there has been a decline in quality stands to prove that the quality used to be even more tremendous AND that the quality of average fragrances from most houses has declined.

    I do seek out vintage Guerlains, and if one is patient you can often find deals depending on which fragrance you're looking for. It's worth paying the extra money sometimes for a true work of art (like my vintage Vol de Nuit or the Eau de Verviene I recently bought).

    Having just visited a Guerlain boutique today, I can tell you my wallet hurt walking out, and had I not shown a LOT of self restraint only buying one bottle. I wish the prices were a tad lower for the really 'good' stuff.

  11. #71

    Red face Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAttorney View Post
    You read my mind.
    It was so dirty.
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  12. #72

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitri View Post
    This was my initial response after reading your email exchange also.

    I had to snigger a little at the "US being the richest country in the world" comment... I thought it more than a little ill-advised. Your comments and observations were all valid ones, right up until this misconceived remark kinda spoiled it for you.
    I think he's confusing wealth with power. Even in that area it's debatable

  13. #73

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    I'm with the_good_life on this one. What a fine idea to market re-formulations. Also like the idea joxer96 posted re. Guerlain producing their "vintage" line. Good thinking, guys!

  14. #74

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by joxer96 View Post
    Doubtful, she probably has access to vintage formulations. Which brings to mind the following, why don't they release a 'Vintage Formulations' line? Guerlain could market it to their more discerning clientele, I bet it would go over very well. Of course there's all the IFRA bull, but where there's a will there's a way. They probably only follow the guidelines because it means more profit anyway.


    This is what I've been hoping they'd do. I think it could work. If they used great ingredients, though, it would just highlight how bad everything else is.

    The other problem is that they'd do what they did with "Mon Precieux Nectar" and charge 9K-plus for an OTT bottle and mediocre juice (which, to be fair, I haven't tried). That strategy worked for LVMH and handbags, but I'm not sure it will translate as well to fragrances. It's not like we can wear the price tag for the fragrance on our pulse points as a status symbol.

    We can always hope, though!

  15. #75
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    So much has been said, either way. IMO, Guerlain is not an artisanal outfit that can, or will, be swayed by the concerns of (lets be very honest) a minority of its global market. Getting down to the brass tacks, Guerlain, today, is a just brand of a hard-nosed business organisation which just happens to make fragrances loved by both "novices" (the significant majority) and "experts" (the significant minority) alike. Business will always follow the hard facts that lead to growth and profits.

    However, we should be true to our convictions and protest, even when we know "they" wont listen. Lets not be distracted by the minutae of ManlyScent's email. I respect him for communicating what he believed to those who needed to hear what he had to say. Good one, ManlyScents.
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  16. #76

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by Stereotomy View Post
    1. Why would she have a Gmail address?
    2. Why would she take the time to answer customers' mails directly?
    3. How do you know you're not chatting with some customer support?
    4. Are you aware that fragrance connaisseurs who oppose 'formula changes' are probably responsible for less than 0.01% of Guerlain's revenue?

    1. I don't know. Only she can answer that. Ask her.
    2. Since she is in the business of customer service, logic would dictate that she would address a customer's concern.
    3. I don't know. How do we know people are who they say we are. I for one, chose not to be paranoid.
    4. Based one what she said. Guerlains goes to pains not to do to much damages. So, yes, while it may be a small percentage. They are aware of us.

    Overall, it was quite easy to get in touch with her. You see she has a new blog which she is trying to promote. Therefore, she is very attentive at this stage to see what viewers are saying.

    Sometimes, people don't do things because they think is too hard or impossible. I choose not to live that way. If I want to talk to Guerlain's Sylvaine and let her know my openion,.than I will. And so far I've succeeded. And as a bonus, I got your Attention Stereotomy....Isn't live grand!
    Last edited by ManlyScent; 24th April 2009 at 09:05 PM.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Jeepers. It's a business whose purpose is to make money, and they can do whatever the heck they want to their products. The only problem is that they produce a product that people form an emotional attachment to. Do they produce works of art? I have no idea and I'm not certain I care (and there is a recent thread on this in case you haven't seen it). I do know that if it is art, it is not the same as the Mona Lisa. The Mona Lisa is singular and it is no longer an object of commerce, being owned by a museum that will never let it go. I don't think we should even compare Guerlain's fragrances to contemporary art, which is an object of commerce in that much of it is put up for sale. In that case, all that is required is one person who understands the painting and likes it enough to spend money on it. Guerlain needs thousands of people who like their creations and many (most?) of them will be casual consumers who have no clue what the vintage formulations smell like.

    And it's not like when Coke tried to switch to New Coke - millions of people had an attachment to a product that they had used almost all of their lives on a weekly - if not daily - basis. Most people don't have the same relationship to their fragrances. And I'm willing to bet that many of the bottles sold are collecting dust and are only used on infrequent occasions.

    As much as anyone here loves the old stuff, most people have no idea and wouldn't care even if they did. I hate to put it this way - and I mean this as a statement of how the general puplic would probably view it, and not an insult or a reflection of what I believe - but no one, the company or the public, is going to care about a few cranks yelling about their old perfume. If we were talking about a niche house that had a small but devoted following, complaining might make a difference. However, Guerlain/LVMH is a huge company and as long as they make fragrances that the general public likes, they'll keep making money, no matter what we may think.

    Sorry, but that's the reality as I see it. Not to be harsh, but I think it's tough cookies. And all you/anyone can do is enjoy what you have.
    Last edited by dpak; 24th April 2009 at 09:04 PM. Reason: spelling
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  18. #78

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    While we're at it, I recently bought 2 different bottles of Shalimar - one with the traditional gold box and one with the new blue box. The bottles are slightly different too. Usually a bottle change means a formula change too. Can anybody tell me if I have vintage Shalimar? I haven't opened the newer one yet, but the older one in the gold box smells great.
    "I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."

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  19. #79

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stereotomy
    1. Why would she have a Gmail address?
    2. Why would she take the time to answer customers' mails directly?
    3. How do you know you're not chatting with some customer support?
    4. Are you aware that fragrance connaisseurs who oppose 'formula changes' are probably responsible for less than 0.01% of Guerlain's revenue?


    1. I don't know. Only she can answer that. Ask her.
    2. Since she is in the business of customer service, logic would dictate that she would address a customer's concern.
    3. I don't know. How do we know people are who they say we are. I for one, chose not to be paranoid.
    4. Based one what she said. Guerlains goes to pains not to do to much damages. So, yes, while it may be a small percentage. They are aware of us.

    Overall, it was quite easy to get in touch with her. You see she has a new blog which she is trying to promote. Therefore, she is very attentive at this stage to see what viewers are saying.

    Sometimes, people don't do things because they think is too hard or impossible. I choose not to live that way. If I want to talk to Guerlain's Sylvaine and let her know my openion,.than I will. And so far I've succeeded. And as a bonus, I got your Attention Stereotomy....Isn't live grand!

  20. #80

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    Quote Originally Posted by adonis View Post
    Do you know if she's dating anyone?
    She's a little too free with the exclamation points but nothing that can't be quickly forgiven and forgotten.
    "I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."

    Egon Schiele - Self-Potrait


    My classics: Dior Homme EdT, YSL Rive Gauche PH, Helmut Lang Cuiron, L'Occitane Neroli (vintage), Davidoff Zino, L'Occitane Eau des Baux

    http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/2976

  21. #81

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Glad I kept you busy, Alice.
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  22. #82

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Busy? Christ I've broken into a sweat jumping between these two threads!

    I know the intention of starting the second thread was to refocus on the topic at hand, but all it has served to do is split the same discourse over two threads. There is really no shift in the discussion, and the original poster (Manlyscent) is double-posting responses.

    I vote for a merge. This is gettin' crazy.

  23. #83

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Yeah, or, just close this thread and go on in the other. Responses seem to be the same.
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  24. #84

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Though Stereotomy, I gotta say the addition of your sexy pie-graph above did add some colour and flair.

  25. #85

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

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  26. #86
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    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    I don't even understand what the 'argument' is about. Seems to me there are is a wide spectrum of Guerlain fragrances, from classic to modern, inexpensive and very costly. There's something for everyone. It's a shame that materials used in the classics can no longer be used, and that the reformulations aren't as good as the originals - but it is what it is.

  27. #87

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    was Creed's Green Irish Tweed ever reformulated...? or, is every batch reformulated..? even better....was GIT composed by JP Guerlain...?

  28. #88

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Creed is a whole other story.

    Old Guerlains = vintage masterpieces, the older the better
    Old Creeds = probably spoilt. Better get a fresh batch.

    Right?
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  29. #89

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Why does everyone keep overlooking the point. These supposed offending ingredients can still be used, since the fragrances are "grandfathered", the companies would just have to put a WARNING label on the box and list ingredients. The fact that Guerlain and others choose not to do this is proof positive that the only standard being upheld is making the largest profit from the least investment.
    So regardless of who buys the most, whether or not newer products are loved as much as older, what ever. The point of this is that there is no respect for tradition, only the love of higher profits.
    So please stop being such a bunch of lambs and following the flock; by saying "The law has to be followed." Take the time to read the document and absorb it thoroughly, then you will see there is no level of excellence with any of these companies. They are just using this law/recommendation as a guise to cheapen grand scents, while fooling the public at large by saying it is "the law" and their hands are tied.
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  30. #90
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    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Quote Originally Posted by Stereotomy View Post
    Creed is a whole other story.

    Old Guerlains = vintage masterpieces, the older the better
    Old Creeds = probably spoilt. Better get a fresh batch.

    Right?

    LOL. Funny how that happens. Ever notice that one NEVER sees 'vintage Creed' on eBay while there are pages of Guerlains, many 40-50+ years old, some even older. I wonder why that is.....?

  31. #91

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    -snip -
    Brielle

    Try imagining the mighty house of Guerlain falls down because it wasn't making enough money anymore. There goes your tradition.

    That's it. Can't blame them trying to make more profits and use technological advancements to do what couldn't be done earlier if they could.
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  32. #92

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Did you like the fragrance that you sniffed? Do you want to wear that fragrance? To me, while I don't like reformulations, I understand the need for them, but I try to judge a fragrance on what I sniff today... and take it for what it is. That's all...

    We can have remorse for what was... or we can celebrate what is... I take what is today, and if I like it, I buy it, if I don't... I don't buy it. We speak with our spending money, don't we?

  33. #93

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    this thread is demeaning to a house such as Guerlain. whats further more degrading is, that there is no humility in some members here. only arrogance.

    Mr. Guerlain might be very sad today to see these kinda threads on BN. hence no response. guys and "gurlz" we are talkin about Guerlain here. show some respect, will ya?
    Last edited by jenson; 24th April 2009 at 10:05 PM.

  34. #94
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    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Quote Originally Posted by Brielle87 View Post
    Why does everyone keep overlooking the point. These supposed offending ingredients can still be used, since the fragrances are "grandfathered", the companies would just have to put a WARNING label on the box and list ingredients. The fact that Guerlain and others choose not to do this is proof positive that the only standard being upheld is making the largest profit from the least investment.
    Aaahhh.... good point. I hadn't thought of that (a warning label). So in other words, the IFRA rule changes are a convenient excuse for the companies to use cheaper ingredients? THAT is kinda rat fink, isn't it?

  35. #95

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    I love the way people get emotional about fragrances. Makes the hobby so special. All other brands would be just that: brands. But a perfume brand is a 'house'.

    Sipping on something from the house of Pepsi right now.
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  36. #96

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Quote Originally Posted by aezikely View Post
    Aaahhh.... good point. I hadn't thought of that (a warning label). So in other words, the IFRA rule changes are a convenient excuse for the companies to use cheaper ingredients? THAT is kinda rat fink, isn't it?
    I don't think companies need that excuse.

    When they look at their balance sheets and find out that a certain scent would increase profits by reformulating it, maybe because Givaudan, IFF or whatever came up with a new synthetic molecule that is much cheaper and 99,9% like the old stuff, they'd hit it and reformulate the stuff.

    Guys, whether you want it or not, this is not charity. This is big heap $$$ business.
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  37. #97

    Default Re: Guerlain's Response To Letter

    Quote Originally Posted by jenson View Post
    this thread is demeaning to a house such as Guerlain. whats further more degrading is, that there is no humility in some members here. only arrogance.

    Mr. Guerlain might be very sad today to see these kinda threads on BN. hence no response. guys and "gurlz" we are talkin about Guerlain here. show some respect, will ya?
    Ooofff... respect for what? Humility for what? They are making fragrances for us... for the consumer... and if we speak (in the sense of we buy or don't buy) that we are dissatisfied with the product, one would hope they would listen.

  38. #98

    Default Re: My Letter To Guerlain's Creative Director

    This thread has run its course. The points that the OP was making were addressed many, many times. Thanks everyone.

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