Thread: Luca Turin??
Who is Luca Turin and why is his opinion and GUIDE so important
to so many Basenotes memmbers?
It is just an opinion and expirience of one person.
it doesn't mean that mutch except that it tells what HE thinks about a certan perfume.
the thing is , i just see his name over and over and over again here.
It is surprising me how many members depend there perfume purchase on
hi comment and guide.
How important can he be ?
how important are other reviewers here to you Mo...? same can apply for Mr. Turin.
He is a fragrance critic with a wealth of information on what happens behind the scene in the industry. He, just like us, is extremely passionate about scents and is only spreading the message in his own way. also, if you have read his book, which i presume you havent, you would see how enjoyable/challenging it is to read his reviews. you must also know, he is a leading scientist in the field of aromachemicals and takes his hobby pretty seriously. more seriously than anyone here does.
over a period of time, i have warmed up to his reviews and kinda agree with him on most. i dont want to cite eg. as some of those scents are on the sale thread.
So, yes, he is a pretty important figure and people here would often quote him on variety of issues. also, you must know, he is the one who inspired Chandler Burr on perfumes. just imagine how infectious this person would be? Chandler Burr came into the perfume world purely on the basis of how Mr. Turin Inspired him.
Luca is the person who has pretty much rewritten human understanding of the art and science of smell.
But other than that he's nothing special.
He's very educated and knowledgeable as well. I don't knock what he does, however I go by the beat of my own drummer. It's my sense of smell, my money and my enjoyment.
As good as his information is, we don't share similar tastes, so it would be unwise for me to base my buys on his opinion. I have certain members here that have reviews on juice that interests me that I hold in high regard.
See if his taste is the same as yours and then make a decision on whether or not his opinion is purchase-worthy.
Belive when i say this,
I am not respectless person towards public figures in any industry.
Few years a go i have won a great price for new and youg up comming artists in The Netherlands.
I still belive it is just the opinion of a selected group. it is what few persons think of my work,
that doesnt mean i m THAT good, but it only means that they, 5 persons found my work very promissing
and they have selected me as a winner.
Same story with Turin, i really think that many other people wrote about perfume.
But that doesnt mean that a perfume guid can become a bible kind of thing.
I dont belive in the bible, but this is just a exampel.
He is the person who opened my eyes to the world of smelling
Luca Turin is a gifted writer, industry insider and scientist. His opinions are informed and witty. He isn't asking for people to follow him blindly, he isn't actually asking for anything except, perhaps, for an audience. He's certainly found one here.
That said, I find critics are often the most likely to miss the uniqueness of new ideas because they're so steeped in what is considered classic. Case in point: when the movie Blade Runner was first released in 1982 it was savaged by critics for the very things that made it unique and revolutionary. Its over-stylized deadpan quality, that represents the sad direction of humanity, is more accurate than the bravado antics of the Stars Wars trilogy, which the critics loved.
This problem also runs in reverse. In an attempt to find the revolutionary the critic often take themselves a bit too seriously and often gets behind the wrong horse. Case in point: Estee Lauder's Beyond Paradise and its ***** rating by Turin.
Critics are often blinded by too much knowledge.
Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 8th May 2009 at 09:06 PM.
My english language is not devoleped very well.
But i wil try to tell u this.
I have read a theread here about a member who felt sad that Turin didntlike mona de orio.
many other members reacted and there was also some other site with information about the same.
THAT was an eye opener to me!
The fact the we give a person so mutch saying power and we blindly folow and forget about ower
own sensses and ower own choices.
That made me wonder why he and his book are so important.
Do u see how easy we mislead ower personal taste ?
He's the Gene Shalit of the perfume industry..
Members here DO NOT give him too much authority. Because members talk about his opinions DOES NOT mean he decides things for them or that they accept his opinions themselves.
Members here make up THEIR OWN MINDS Moreda.
That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.
I take his word as one coming from a well informed, experienced and smell scent specialist. Just like I read from movie critics, cigars, watches and food. I do not agree with him in everything he says but that is the beauty of it. I have never bought a fragrance influenced by his opinion , I read about his opinion after I buy the fragrance. On the other hand I have bought a great deal of fragrances based on basenoters reviews which to me are more diverse, interesting and to the point.
The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.
we all need to hear about somthing, than get ciorious and try and see if u love it or not .
I dont want to pretend to be a very autonomous person. I am happy being informed by others
and to be influenced by some members.
I hope i am not ofending anyone here DUSTB...
it is just that i have recived many times...about 10times links to his guide.
That made me wonder why it is like that... why are his word some kind of prophecy to some.
There are not a lot of perfume/fragrance writings in print, so of course the few people who have made the effort to do so ( Turin/ Sanchez), should be talked about.
Last edited by Surfacing; 8th May 2009 at 08:36 PM. Reason: spelling
It would be because his guide has a _whole lot of perfumes_ in it, and the reviews tend to be useful. There are very few resources that you can go to and expect a moderately high chance of finding the perfome of your choice reviewed.
So just as I go to Roger Ebert's site if I want to see an opinion about a movie, I go to Turin's guide if I want to see an opinion about a perfume. But that opinion is a starting point, not the final answer.
This discussion feels a little straw-man-ish. You're arguing against the idea that Turin is an infallible perfume god. But nobody is arguing _for_ the idea that he is.
He's well-informed. He's interesting. He writes amusingly. He happens to also be a full-fledged scientific genius and quite possibly have an unusually fine sense of smell, but neither of those things are terribly relevant, IMO, to the Guide. The Guide, to me, just comes down to those first three: Well-informed, interesting, writes amusingly.
Please dont feel offended jsut because i have said what is on my mind.
Or just dotn react if feel like offended. this was not the reason why i asked why he is so important.
I didnt relized that soem would feel offend by my opinion so easily!!!
Last edited by moreda; 8th May 2009 at 08:55 PM.
"So many scents, so little skin"...
Last edited by moreda; 8th May 2009 at 09:45 PM.
It is obviously a very sensetive matter over here.
There are lots of people that have far broader experience in fragrance and the science of smelling than I do. Luca Turin is one of them. The descriptions he gives inform me. They may lead me to explore a fragrance sooner than I would otherwise. They may lead me to be more attentive to some aspect of a fragrance's development. They may be of no help at all. Nothing he writes willt shatter the enjoyment of a fragrance if I like it already; nor can he persuade me that Beyond Paradise for Men is a masterpiece. Overall, I am enriched and grateful for his contributions.
Yet, in a book one of his colleagues tells a story, how stubbornly Erdős couldn't understand the solution a rather simple probability problem. So, I just want to say that even the brightest brains might have momentary lapses
I think this entire thread is based on English as a second language thing. Everybody have a beer and relax. Turin is only god for the Chosen Ones.
Talk about over-reacting! Chill out people.
Can we all agree that while Turin is an authority on the SCIENCE of perfume, he is solely critic otherwise. The degree to which one trusts his published reviews (wholly subjective, personal reviews I might add) is ones own personal choice. Obviously the value of his words will vary from individual to individual.
Last edited by DocmanCC; 8th May 2009 at 09:32 PM.
I'm having a beer.
To say that Turin has biases seems totally fair. He's mostly quite open about valuing the innovative and valuing perfumes that have some relation to traditional structures. To suppose that interest in his opinions dulls ones own judgment seems untrue. Seems to me that we learn by comparing our own experience to that of other people. That our learning is aided by language, including language that we disagree with.
What was the question again?
I'm having another beer.
Last edited by Strollyourlobster; 8th May 2009 at 09:38 PM.
wht upsets me the most is that...no one approaches Moreda with my top of the line reviews....Mo, would you start a thread in my name when that happens..jeez i would love ot see that.. thread title: Jenson??
I am a member of Basenotes who enjoys reading Mr. Turin's opinions on fragrance. I agree that The Guide is an important work because, as Surfacing states, there are very, very few publications that endeavor to provide information on the thousands of fragrances available. It is an admirable effort, and I agree that it should be discussed. I enjoy talking about Turin/Sanchez's entertaining critiques, as much as I enjoy discussing fragrance opinions with my fellow Basenoters. This does not mean that I "depend there perfume purchase on hi comment and guide." I respectfully but thoroughly disagree with your opinion that many members look to the guide as a "bible" for choosing their purchases. In my years here at Basenotes, I have not witnessed this to be the case.
Eddie: Sweetie, what are you drinking?
Patsy: Oh, this? Chanel No. 5.
-- Absolutely Fabulous
i see that this get really misinterpretated very easy.
so this is my last comment about it.
evry one is ofcourse free to do what ever they want to do.
evry one is free to ask what ever they want to ask.
when there is a question there will always be a reaction.
From here i think it losts it's meaning to me.
Have fun chatting guys.
Last edited by moreda; 8th May 2009 at 10:27 PM.
The guide is just that a Guide. Just like a map is a map. It is a reference source for me. When I read about a scent that I don't own or have had the chance to sniff I look to see whether it is listed in The Guide and begin the learning process about that scent.
Luca Turin is one of the few writers who brings a number of ways of viewing a scent to the crticism of perfume. He can view it as historian and long-time commentator. He can view it scientifically from the components that go into making a scent. He finally can view it as the end consumer and wearer of a scent. All of us qualify on the last level. It is the first two where only some of us have the qualifications to comment.
I look at it in the same way I look to any criticism. What are the qualifications of the writer. Does the writer write a readable review with comparisons and critiques I can understand. Does the writer understand the place of the piece being criticised in the overall tapestry of the field. Finally does my taste mesh with the reviewer. There is a local movie critic who I have found has the opposite taste of me in movies. He is a perfectly valid critic for me because I know that a movie he gives two-stars to I'm likely to enjoy and a movie he gives four-stars to is likely to bore me to tears. Luca Turin is a valuable resource to this community. I have seen very little evidence that his opinions have swayed anybody negatively away from anything they liked before he gave it a one-star review. When I talk about wine I bring up the name of Robert Parker because I respect his writing. When I talk about movies I bring up the name of Roger Ebert because I respect his writing. When I talk about perfume I bring up the name of Luca Turin because I resepct his writing.
More writing on fragrance by me to be found at http://www.cafleurebon.com/
i generally never agree with the opinions of turin. Still, I applaud his effort to spread some perfume education around. I have never bought anything because of his recommendation, and i do not think that the fact he likes something changes my perception of the scent. Still, I do think I can and have learned a lot by reading him. Same applies to Burr and many BN reviewers.
I don't often agree with political commentator George Will but I still think he is an interesting read
'Those who grow too big for their pants will be exposed in the end'--anon
LT's various olfactory contributions can not be overemphasized. His guide book, however, suffers from a major flaw: inconsistency. If his approach to reviewing would have been explained in the introduction, this would have been fine, assuming it made some sense. Instead, I think he became a bit "thin-skinned" about criticisms here. In any case, the book is still well worth the money, especially considering the current price at amazon and other major book sites. That said, I now know that his recommendations are not often consistent with my tastes, especially when the price of the frag is also taken into account.
Visit my huge swap page: http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?t=211135
Or visit my Sales page: http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?t=211407
Samples, etc. for Sale at my Crystal Flacon page: http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic.php?t=282
My fragrance blog: http://bigslyfragrance.wordpress.com/
Moreda.. you made this into a hot topic, haha. I've said somethings about this before. And I still think, that most of the people take his opinion higher than anyone else, but there's a reason for it. His history, his background, his knowlegde.. that makes him a good guideline. Though, for me it's important I like it, I'm developing myself into my own Luca Turin, and I gladly accept any recommendation.
unico grande amore.
And the answer I found in the book about Erdos is, they thrive on the sense of certainty they get when they solve a mathematical problem.
Maybe the relative wooliness of probability interfered with Erdos' ability to grasp the solution of which you speak. In a case like that of Erdos, that satisfaction of certainty is still, apparently, enough to consume their lives, eclipsing every other form of satisfaction most humans are prone to seek.
The vast subjectivity, not to mention range of budgets, involved in all the ways of experiencing smells makes it obviously a poor comparison with the severely objective discipline of math. One person's certainty ("Mother of God, I had no idea anything could smell so much like those cheap candies I used to eat when I was nine, this is terrible, I must make sure everyone else sees it that way too") is very often another person's... something else. And the stink of the presumption of trying to impose one's fragrant certainty on anyone else is enough to overwhelm the whole business.
Last edited by Roxoff; 9th May 2009 at 12:25 AM.