Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 33 of 33
  1. #1
    Heartwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    2,310
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Understanding the Modern Chypre

    I've been disdainful of the concept of the new, "modern chypre" category. In the past, I've said things like, "It's just marketing. I'll buy the juice but not the hype!" But I feel now like I should give them a fair shake and try to understand what is meant by the term. Something to do with patchouli and vetiver, I think. I'd like to sample a bunch and see if I can figure out if there's a common accord that defines this group. I already know of a few that are considered modern chypres:

    Narciso Rodriguez for Her (is either the edp or edt more characteristic?)
    John Varvatos Woman
    Perles de Lalique

    Can anyone provide me with more names for consideration? I'm not including fragrances like the new EL Jasmine White Moss, because that seems to me more like a traditional chypre. Also, Agent Provocateur I "get" as chypre too. Am I wrong not to view these as the modern chypre? I have to admit I don't quite "get" one of the most classic of them all-- Mitsouko. When I think chypre, I think of Caleche, AdP Profumo, Paloma Picasso, No. 19, Knowing, and the marvelous RL Safari (plus others, of course). Is my nose defining chypres too narrowly?

    NRfH is to my nose rose, musk, vetiver, and woods. JVW was a fruit pia colada. PdL I have not yet tried. What should I be looking for in these (and in any recommendations you might have) that say "modern chypre?"

    Thanks in advance for your opinions and suggestions, everyone!
    Eddie: Sweetie, what are you drinking?
    Patsy: Oh, this? Chanel No. 5.
    -- Absolutely Fabulous

  2. #2

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Edit - seems you already got to PC JWM. Oops. Personally, I found it modern in a very negative way.
    Last edited by Sugandaraja; 13th August 2009 at 10:26 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    For floral chypres Badgley Mischka is one, also Miller Harris Fleur de Sel and Terre d'Iris, Bond No 9 Bryant Park and Armani City Glam. Coco Mlle EDP and Chance are even classed as chypres which I find strange!

    Fruity chypres include Gucci by Gucci EDP and the very wonderful Jasper Conran Woman, Mauboussin and Gucci Rush (though you can keep the latter!).
    "So many scents, so little skin"...

    http://bonkersaboutperfume.blogspot.com/

  4. #4

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Interesting that fragrances as disparate as Fleurs de Sel, Mauboussin, and Terre d'Iris (three that I like a lot, BTW!) are all considered modern chypres.

    Let me add Henry Dunay Sabi. It's a lovely green floral blend that I have heard described as a chypre.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Chanel's 31 Rue Cambon. The new Estee Lauder White Jasmine and Moss"
    Evenstar

  6. #6

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Modern chypres:

    Malle Le Parfum de Therese
    JHAG Citizen Queen
    Agent Provocateur (original)
    Montale Chypre Fruite (
    Last edited by parisa; 14th August 2009 at 06:34 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by VM I hate civet View Post
    For floral chypres Badgley Mischka is one, also Miller Harris Fleur de Sel and Terre d'Iris, Bond No 9 Bryant Park and Armani City Glam. Coco Mlle EDP and Chance are even classed as chypres which I find strange!

    Fruity chypres include Gucci by Gucci EDP and the very wonderful Jasper Conran Woman, Mauboussin and Gucci Rush (though you can keep the latter!).
    I'm bowled over by the classification of Coco Mlle EDP and Chance as chypres. How?

    And even JCW ... and Gucci Rush ... ? Heaven help us. What are the commonalities between all of these scents that render them 'modern' chypres?

    Yours, utterly foxed,

    SdL
    xx
    This week, 'Chanel Cuir de Russie: Skin Scent' at http://thescentimentalist.blogspot.com/

  8. #8

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    And don't even get me started on Miss Dior Cherie.

    SdL

    (Old Skool Chypre Hag)
    This week, 'Chanel Cuir de Russie: Skin Scent' at http://thescentimentalist.blogspot.com/

  9. #9

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    For some of the wilder classifications, may I refer you to Osmoz...taking Coco Mlle for starters. In that case, it must be to do with the patch and vetiver.

    http://www.osmoz.com/fragrances/Haut...-Mademoiselle#
    "So many scents, so little skin"...

    http://bonkersaboutperfume.blogspot.com/

  10. #10

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by soirdelune View Post
    And don't even get me started on Miss Dior Cherie.

    SdL

    (Old Skool Chypre Hag)
    That is so funny - I deliberately omitted it from my list above, out of respect to people's sensibilities!

    "So many scents, so little skin"...

    http://bonkersaboutperfume.blogspot.com/

  11. #11

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Some recommended reading about chypres from two of my favorites, Ayala Sender and Victoria (Bois de Jasmin):

    http://boisdejasmin.typepad.com/_/20...s-on-chyp.html

    http://ayalasmellyblog.blogspot.com/...re-family.html

    Ayala's article provides an overview of the varieties of chypres. Bois de Jasmin discusses the history of the chypre family and classic and modern examples.

    The Perfume Shrine has an amazing piece on modern chypres also: http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...ntestants.html
    Last edited by Sloan; 14th August 2009 at 07:34 PM.

  12. #12
    rogalal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Berkeley, California
    Posts
    3,370
    Blog Entries
    33

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by sloan_8013 View Post
    Some recommended reading about chypres...
    Thanks - that is some interesting reading!
    Has everyone checked out my Top 100 Blog??

  13. #13
    Moderator

    Redneck Perfumisto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Spiritually, Kansas
    Posts
    13,298
    Blog Entries
    37

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Two more modern chypres are...

    Gucci by Gucci Pour Homme

    Sublime Balkiss by The Different Company

    The first is definitely a chypre to my nose, but less so than the feminine EDP. I haven't smelled the second, but looking forward to doing so. It is said in advertising copy to resemble an older chypre, but to be non-oakmoss, non-syn-moss, non-animalic.
    * * * *

  14. #14

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by VM I hate civet View Post
    ....Coco Mlle EDP and Chance are even classed as chypres which I find strange!
    I've seen it, too!
    Quote Originally Posted by soirdelune View Post
    I'm bowled over by the classification of Coco Mlle EDP and Chance as chypres. How?
    I have absolutely no idea, Soir, but I will say that when I received a bottle of Chance six or seven years ago, I immediately thought chypre. I had no knowledge of the existence of Mitsouko at the time, but my understanding of chypre was a dry, woodsy component. (I know that's pretty vague..)
    Quote Originally Posted by VM I hate civet View Post
    For some of the wilder classifications, may I refer you to Osmoz...taking Coco Mlle for starters. In that case, it must be to do with the patch and vetiver.
    Sorry, I somehow missed this one. That's what I was thinking, though. Chance has patch, too, and it's dominant on my skin in both.

    Btw, if Chance is not a modern chypre, what is it?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    I can't find the notes on Jacomo's Anthracite EdT, but it seems to be a unisex chypre to me. I'd say the geranium is fairly strong, and it's clearly mossy. It's just a bit sweet, but not especially ambery, and it's a bit powdery, perhaps slightly spicy.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 15th August 2009 at 08:46 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by VM I hate civet View Post
    For floral chypres Badgley Mischka is one, also Miller Harris Fleur de Sel and Terre d'Iris, Bond No 9 Bryant Park and Armani City Glam. Coco Mlle EDP and Chance are even classed as chypres which I find strange!
    Aren't they both classified as Michael Edwards Woody Oriental - [Fresh or Crisp]?
    Q: How do you make a feminine fragrance masculine?
    A: Add 'Pour Homme' to the bottle
    - Pierre Bourdon

  17. #17

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Great reads Sloan, thanks!
    Looking to swap/buy/receive for free () the following samples/decants:
    Indult Tihota & Rve en Cuir
    Chant d'Aromes extrait
    Vetiver pour Elle (5ml decant)


    Selling/swapping:
    Versace The Dreamer 50ml (1.7oz) BNIB
    ---

    "The Sunshine bores the daylights outta me!"
    http://polderposh.blogspot.com/

  18. #18
    ECaruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    946
    Blog Entries
    22

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    I read the articles Sloan provided. Thanks very much. I conclude that "modern chypre" is a term sometimes chosen by perfume companies if they think it will help sales. Otherwise it has no meaning.
    The classic bergamot top note is now an "anything but bergamot" top note.
    The classic floral heart notes might be florals, or green notes, or fruits if they're popular this year, or ...anything.
    The classic oakmoss/labdanum/musk basenote is now "anything but oakmoss"/"anything but labdanum"/"a synthetic sweetener that's anything but animalic."
    And the proportions can be varied so it smells like a rose or a peach or vetiver or...anything.

    It's not surprising that there are so many expressions of suprise at some of the classifications.

    My ideal of the classic chypre smell is dry, balanced and somewhat abstract with nothing dominating. But that's just my abstraction from a few classic chypres I've smelled.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by GourmandHomme View Post
    Aren't they both classified as Michael Edwards Woody Oriental - [Fresh or Crisp]?
    I don't know off hand, but the one time I studied the Edwards wheel I found I couldn't relate to it nearly as well overall as Osmoz (which is linked with Firmenich, I think). Woody Oriental suggests to me something even more different than chypre!
    Last edited by VM I hate civet; 16th August 2009 at 02:47 PM.
    "So many scents, so little skin"...

    http://bonkersaboutperfume.blogspot.com/

  20. #20

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by ECaruthers View Post
    I read the articles Sloan provided. Thanks very much. I conclude that "modern chypre" is a term sometimes chosen by perfume companies if they think it will help sales. Otherwise it has no meaning.
    The classic bergamot top note is now an "anything but bergamot" top note.
    The classic floral heart notes might be florals, or green notes, or fruits if they're popular this year, or ...anything.
    The classic oakmoss/labdanum/musk basenote is now "anything but oakmoss"/"anything but labdanum"/"a synthetic sweetener that's anything but animalic."
    And the proportions can be varied so it smells like a rose or a peach or vetiver or...anything.

    It's not surprising that there are so many expressions of suprise at some of the classifications.
    Well put. I am going to abstain from using this term. I think it's a naff marketing misnomer devised for pitching something as simultaneously contemporary and 'classic' to a younger audience.
    This week, 'Chanel Cuir de Russie: Skin Scent' at http://thescentimentalist.blogspot.com/

  21. #21

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by soirdelune View Post
    I'm bowled over by the classification of Coco Mlle EDP and Chance as chypres. How?

    And even JCW ... and Gucci Rush ... ? Heaven help us. What are the commonalities between all of these scents that render them 'modern' chypres?

    Yours, utterly foxed,

    SdL
    xx
    Sweeter base heavy on patch, and sheer musk.

    I call them pink chypres, because that seems to be the better term for those named above. Almost like gourmand-chypres. Almost edible.

    True modern chypres, I think are more in the style of NR EDT- sheer musk, vetiver, and maybe patch; they are drier than the pink variety. Although generally what is advertised these day as a modern chypre (really PINK chypre) is something more like NR EDP.

    Miss Dior Cherie is classified as a modern chypre.
    Lovely is considered a modern chypre.
    Seen the new Zen classifed as a modern chypre.

    Lovely I'll give a pass to, the other two- not even.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Lovely and Miss Dior Cherie as chypres. Sigh. I really think a new category is called for.

    I love green chypres, and even older green ones smell modern to me.

    Bond Madison Soiree ( echoes of the gorgeous pre formulated Rive Gauche)
    Annick Goutal Heure Exquise
    EL PC Jasmine White Moss (which is really Cristalle )

    Then older chypres that still smell modern to me:
    Ivoire de Balmain
    Chanel No19
    Cristalle
    YSL Rive Gauche (preformulated, the new one is all woods)
    Eau de Calandre
    EL Aliage
    EL Azuree (not the beachy Tom Ford one)
    RL Lauren
    RL Safari
    Guerlain Chant d'Aromes (more fruity than green)
    SMN Melograno (again, more fruit than green)

    Hm, can you tell you've hit on a favourite scent family for me

    Edited to add Gucci L'Arte de Gucci, I am sure this inspired SL Rose de Nuit, at least in some way. But L'Arte is NOT green, it's rose all the way, hello 80s! But I still love it.
    Last edited by Jane Daly; 20th August 2009 at 01:23 PM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    I'd say Soir de Lune is a modern chypre.
    This week, 'Chanel Cuir de Russie: Skin Scent' at http://thescentimentalist.blogspot.com/

  24. #24

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    I have enough trouble defining plain old "chypre," nevermind throwing in the "modern" bit. All I know is that almost all my favorite fragrances turn out to be classified as chypres and so I guess I lub them. But, what, exactly, do I love? I adore Mitsouko and Cuir de Russie and Cristalle and Givenchy III, all of which get classified as Chypres....but, I can't find the common note.
    Do you think "Old Lady Perfume" is a compliment? Join the Scent of an Old Woman Social Group and chat in-depth about vintage and classic fragrances!


    *~~________________________________________~~*

  25. #25
    Heartwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    2,310
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Just popping in quickly to say that I've been reading the responses, and Ayala's article that Sloan recommended (will get to the other), but my mom has been visiting me out here from Florida, and I really haven't had time to give this thread the thought and attention I'd like to. Smart time to start a thread, eh? She returns next Tuesday, so I'll be around a lot more then. I think I have samples of some of the recommendations and look forward to testing these with a different point of view. Sort of. I wore NRfH a few days ago and suddenly "got it." I think I see how this is supposed to be a modern, pink chypre. And now I don't like it anymore. In fact, I found it somehow annoying. Alas.

    Anyway, more later! Thanks again, everyone!
    Eddie: Sweetie, what are you drinking?
    Patsy: Oh, this? Chanel No. 5.
    -- Absolutely Fabulous

  26. #26

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    NRH smells of Elnett hairspray to me!
    This week, 'Chanel Cuir de Russie: Skin Scent' at http://thescentimentalist.blogspot.com/

  27. #27

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by 3xasif View Post
    Lovely and Miss Dior Cherie as chypres. Sigh. I really think a new category is called for.
    Agreed. Whats wrong with calling Lovely a floral? Smells like a musky-floral to me. :/

    I would also classify Lauren (a fave of mine too!) as a green floral, as I would No 19. RG is more aldehydic-floral than chypre to my nose.
    I guess I'm stuck on oak moss/moss, and unless the 'leather' is a defining characteristic- as in Azuree (which also has top bitter citrus note)- than I scoot it over into another category.

    Like, an-oud-girl, I'm still resentful of the pink/modern "chypres". Just come up with a new category- or label it according to literal smell.

    "Modern Chypre" has become a dump-all category. I even saw L'Artisan's Jour de Fete listed as a chypre somewhere!
    I think the category labels are following the nonsense trend of note labels- "celestial blue musk". Really people?

  28. #28

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by leffleur View Post
    Agreed. Whats wrong with calling Lovely a floral? Smells like a musky-floral to me. :/

    I would also classify Lauren (a fave of mine too!) as a green floral, as I would No 19. RG is more aldehydic-floral than chypre to my nose.
    I refer again to Osmoz, where Lovely is indeed classed as a "floral woody musk", and RG an "aldehydic floral". The old Lauren I would also call a green floral, though it isn't listed on the site, possibly because it is discontinued now.
    "So many scents, so little skin"...

    http://bonkersaboutperfume.blogspot.com/

  29. #29

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Some of the samples quoted above on what a modern chypre is suggest that this term is useless.

    I'm very familiar with the samples of modern chypres quoted above: Badgley Mischcka, Coco Mlle, and Narciso Rodriguez for Her, Gucci Rush.

    There is absolutely nothing common between these 4. Eg Gucci Rush is so fruity-floral it's not funny. It's so different from Coco Mlle that even with a nose blocked by cotton buds I probably can still tell the difference. I could not even find a pattern of commonality between them except that they're all modern creations.
    Q: How do you make a feminine fragrance masculine?
    A: Add 'Pour Homme' to the bottle
    - Pierre Bourdon

  30. #30

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    My own curiosity about the classification of "Modern Chypre" is this:

    If oakmoss is not present...can we have a true "Chypre"?

    After reading the perfumeshrines' blogspot about the Chypre controversy...Jean Claude Ellena made a point that clarifies this quandry for me. He says, in a nutshell, that the classification of a fragrance is not as relevant as it's position in the timeline of perfumery. This is a concept I can more easily accept, rather than trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole.

    * Kudos to an_oud_girl for starting this thought provoking thread!
    Last edited by ubuandibeme; 23rd August 2009 at 03:26 PM.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by leffleur View Post
    Agreed. Whats wrong with calling Lovely a floral? Smells like a musky-floral to me. :/

    I would also classify Lauren (a fave of mine too!) as a green floral, as I would No 19. RG is more aldehydic-floral than chypre to my nose.
    I guess I'm stuck on oak moss/moss, and unless the 'leather' is a defining characteristic- as in Azuree (which also has top bitter citrus note)- than I scoot it over into another category.

    Like, an-oud-girl, I'm still resentful of the pink/modern "chypres". Just come up with a new category- or label it according to literal smell.

    "Modern Chypre" has become a dump-all category. I even saw L'Artisan's Jour de Fete listed as a chypre somewhere!
    I think the category labels are following the nonsense trend of note labels- "celestial blue musk". Really people?
    I think you are right about No19 being a green floral. Ah I have been craving Lauren lately. And you are right about the oakmoss being a good definer of chypre.

    I am a leather hater and thankfully can't smell even a hint of it in Azuree- all I get is lovely green (much thanks to the lovely Kumquat for the Azuree and Aliage which I cannot get in Canada)
    Jour de Fete as a chypre? Oh noes. Not a chance.

  32. #32

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by VM I hate civet View Post
    I refer again to Osmoz, where Lovely is indeed classed as a "floral woody musk", and RG an "aldehydic floral". The old Lauren I would also call a green floral, though it isn't listed on the site, possibly because it is discontinued now.
    Yep, I think the Osmoz classifications make the most sense. Although I think ii may have been there that I saw the JdF listed as chypre. Still, when I want to search a perfume by scent category, I check Osmoz first.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Understanding the Modern Chypre

    I didn't know JdF was listed there as a chypre (bizarre!), but of course the Coco Mlle EDP and the Chance are.

    I would just agree that the classifications on Osmoz make sense to me more of the time than any other.
    "So many scents, so little skin"...

    http://bonkersaboutperfume.blogspot.com/

Similar Threads

  1. Fragrancedome: Polo vs. Polo Crest vs. Modern Reserve UPDATED with an ending
    By Somerville Metro Man in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 8th July 2014, 08:56 PM
  2. Looking for an new chypre
    By scent in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 18th May 2009, 02:43 PM
  3. General CREED perfumes impression
    By DreamerII in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 2nd March 2008, 06:04 AM
  4. Name your Scent!
    By manicboy in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 17th October 2007, 03:04 PM
  5. The revenge of chypres
    By Magnifiscent in forum Female Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 13th October 2007, 01:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •