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  1. #1

    Default Everclear: Why and why not?

    It seems everyone holds a strong opinion either way. Let's hear it.

    I'm new special alcohols are pricy. I'd like to know the problems of using everclear. Does it impart an odour? Does it cloud? Does it dilute chemicals just fine?

  2. #2
    Basenotes Plus

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    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Clouds judgement...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    I think the higher the alcohol content, the faster it will dissipate and carry the scent with it --- if I had to guess. The perfumer's alcohol is such a concentration to waft the scent out, keep things sterile, and allow the fragrance to behave as it should.
    Is the juice worth the squeeze?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    I found that cheap vodka works fine, but I only use a little to dilute frags that are way too strong for me.

  5. #5
    ECaruthers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    There are many alcohol threads in this discussion. You can read further for details but the summary is this.

    Everclear is the alcohol of choice if you are making fragrances for your own use and if a store near you carries it. Some states ban it and some liquor stores choose not to carry it. People have gotten poisoned, drinking as much Everclear as the vodkas they are used to. If you ever want to sell fragrances and they are made with a drinkable alcohol, then they are subject to the extra high taxes on liquor. Perfumer's alcohol is denatured - undrinkable - and thus not subject to liquor taxes. The exact materials used for denaturing are not revealed. Some people think some perfumer's alcohols have a slightly off smell. Denatured Alcohol sold for removing paint is almost certainly going to smell awful. Whatever they are adding to denature it, they are making sure that no one will ever drink it.

    Be doubly careful if you work with Everclear. First, keep it away from anyone who might be tempted to drink it. The less experienced the drinker, the more danger. Second, keep it away from flames, sparks, etc. It catches fires and burns very easily.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    I am trying 151 proof vodka and some of my oils won't dissolve : /

  7. #7

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    151 proof is 75.5%. Only when you use very little fragrance compounds (about 2%) all might dissolve. generaly you need at least 90% (180 proof) alcohol.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ECaruthers View Post
    People have gotten poisoned, drinking as much Everclear as the vodkas they are used to. If you ever want to sell fragrances and they are made with a drinkable alcohol, then they are subject to the extra high taxes on liquor. .
    Isn't it illegal to sell fragrances made with drinkable alcohol?
    Last edited by surreality; 19th August 2009 at 02:43 PM.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  9. #9
    ECaruthers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    I believe it's not illegal to sell fragrances made with drinkable alcohol - if you've paid the appropriate taxes. Of course if there's anything in the fragrance that's not drinkable, then the approriate label might get complicated: "There's a liquor stamp on this bottle but don't drink it becuase it might be poison."

    I suspect that some perfumer's alcohols may also contain some surfactants that will help oils disolve in higher concentrations than janmeut mentioned above. But I don't know any that say this.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Isn't it illegal to sell fragrances made with drinkable alcohol?
    No, it is not.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Will everclear get cloudy? 151 gets cloudy. Also I found that by waiting 24 hours I got 151 to dissolve 20% Fermenich oud. . . but it's cloudy. I bet there's a chemical for that.

    I will get the proper stuff eventually, it's just the hazmat shipping fees and high cost for a gallon of the stuff that's prohibiting my right now.

    What about food grade alcohols?? What's the downfall to using food grade alcohol over using perfumer's? Purity? I can get a permit where I live for like 5 or 10$

  12. #12
    ECaruthers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    I don't know food grade alcohol. What's its proof? Who sells it?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ECaruthers View Post
    I don't know food grade alcohol. What's its proof? Who sells it?
    I guess I mean "industrial alcohol" as defined by the state. It's 195 or 200 proof. Food grade just meaning it was not denatured safe to consume. Count me out for consumption though ; )

  14. #14

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Food grade alcohol is what I usualy use, the smell is usualy very good, dangerous denaturants like methanol are not used and 195 proof is good. The price is a problem, here in the Netherlands a lot of taxes have to be payed for this type of alcohol.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    What about food grade alcohols?? What's the downfall to using food grade alcohol over using perfumer's? Purity? I can get a permit where I live for like 5 or 10$
    190 proof food grade alcohol is the best. Do you live in Washington state?
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen View Post
    190 proof food grade alcohol is the best. Do you live in Washington state?
    WA state, yes. I'm happy I can buy this stuff at the Liquor store and I don't have to pay to ship it I found out that they stock it at the liquor stores but it's not on display and you have to have the proper permit. If you use under 5 gallons a year it's a $5 fee.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Here's M2CW on everclear and liquor in general for perfume use. Not worth the hassle. If you want to use it for your own personal use, go for it. If you plan to sell your creations you can open a world of trouble with various taxing agencies that want you to buy permits to sell liquor. You won't list it as an ingredient and so are unconcerned? Not so fast. If someone has a reaction to your product and it is discovered you used drinking alcohol without listing it, that's a universe of trouble. I really don't get why people insist on using vodka and everclear and other drinking alcohols when perfumer's alcohol eliminates so many problems, is easy to obtain, doesn't smell, and won't break the bank.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Here's M2CW on everclear and liquor in general for perfume use. Not worth the hassle. ... If you plan to sell your creations you can open a world of trouble with various taxing agencies that want you to buy permits to sell liquor.
    That is absolutely untrue. Federal law specifically allows for (Federal) tax-paid beverage alcohol to be used in the manufacture of fragrances. Once the alcohol has been incorporated into a fragrance it is no longer a beverage and state alcoholic beverage laws do not apply.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    WA state, yes. I'm happy I can buy this stuff at the Liquor store and I don't have to pay to ship it — I found out that they stock it at the liquor stores but it's not on display and you have to have the proper permit. If you use under 5 gallons a year it's a $5 fee.
    Yes, it is very convenient in Washington and California. In Washington it is easy to get the permit for 5 gallons per year of 190 proof alcohol and then you can buy it at a State liquor store. In California you do not need a permit but you have to go to an industrial alcohol dealer.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  20. #20
    ECaruthers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen View Post
    Federal law specifically allows for (Federal) tax-paid beverage alcohol to be used in the manufacture of fragrances. Once the alcohol has been incorporated into a fragrance it is no longer a beverage and state alcoholic beverage laws do not apply.
    Thanks, dcampen, this is good to know. Please post a link to the appropriate Federal regulations.

    Does anyone know the laws in the EU?

  21. #21

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen View Post
    That is absolutely untrue. Federal law specifically allows for (Federal) tax-paid beverage alcohol to be used in the manufacture of fragrances. Once the alcohol has been incorporated into a fragrance it is no longer a beverage and state alcoholic beverage laws do not apply.
    Please cite your information source. While I am aware that tax-paid beverage alcohol is not illegal to use in fragrances, the resale tax will apply to specific locations. It is taxed as drinking alcohol. One needs a permit from where ever they are selling it or pay fines.

    I just don't get it with the liquor. Is it the cost of PA that causes people to want to use vodka and everclear? It can't be the ease of purchase as I've read the frustrations here of those who can't obtain everclear. So what is the appeal?

  22. #22

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    While I am aware that tax-paid beverage alcohol is not illegal to use in fragrances,
    OK, so we agree here.


    the resale tax will apply to specific locations. It is taxed as drinking alcohol. One needs a permit from where ever they are selling it or pay fines.
    The sales tax on fragrances is the same no matter what type of alcohol is used in it. You are selling a fragrance product not an alcoholic beverage.

    I will look up some relevant sections of the Code of Federal regulations but this is a little bit like asking me to prove that it is not illegal to eat vanilla ice cream on Sundays.

    I would guess that you probably have been reading the misinformation posted on the Snowdrift Farms website.

    just don't get it with the liquor. Is it the cost of PA that causes people to want to use vodka and everclear? It can't be the ease of purchase as I've read the frustrations here of those who can't obtain everclear.
    In Washington and California as well as a number of other states it is easy to obtain tax-paid pure alcohol. The Federal tax is $27/gallon and in California, from an industrial alcohol dealer the cost of the alcohol is about another $13/gallon.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by aromagal View Post
    I just don't get it with the liquor. Is it the cost of PA that causes people to want to use vodka and everclear? It can't be the ease of purchase as I've read the frustrations here of those who can't obtain everclear. So what is the appeal?
    If it turns out I have no nose for perfumery, I would like not to have purchased $125 gallon of alcohol that I am going to pay $50 hazmat shipping on. I wanted to scrape by with some everclear from a friend in Oregon where it is legal to find out if this is something I want to invest more in. Lord knows, my 50+ flavours broke the bank. . .

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Some people are fine paying the hazmat fee for virtually odor free perfumer's alcohol. Others are fine saving money and dealing with the pungent alcohol odor upon initial application of a fragrance diluted in Everclear. Everyone has different priorities.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Others are fine saving money and dealing with the pungent alcohol odor upon initial application of a fragrance diluted in Everclear
    Everclear is just as odorless as any "perfumer's alcohol", even more so. I am smelling 190 proof Everclear now and it has only the faintest smell.

    Do you understand that real perfumers don't use "perfumer's alcohol"?
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by flouris View Post
    Some people are fine paying the hazmat fee for virtually odor free perfumer's alcohol. Others are fine saving money and dealing with the pungent alcohol odor upon initial application of a fragrance diluted in Everclear. Everyone has different priorities.
    If the only answer I am going to get is sarcastic, I'll take it!

  27. #27

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen View Post
    Everclear is just as odorless as any "perfumer's alcohol", even more so. I am smelling 190 proof Everclear now and it has only the faintest smell.

    Do you understand that real perfumers don't use "perfumer's alcohol"?
    I've been suspicious to a degree that the "exceptional quality" parfumery-specific alcohol is a little bit forced . Someone told me that actually some PA compositions contain extra additives (for clarity sometimes and also so that it is softer on the skin) that can flatten out certain notes, where pure industrial alcohol does not and contains absolutely nothing but alcohol and distilled clean water in the case of 195 proof. There is a document on my local gov't website that indicates the ethyl alcohol they sell is cosmetic industry quality.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen View Post
    Everclear is just as odorless as any "perfumer's alcohol", even more so. I am smelling 190 proof Everclear now and it has only the faintest smell.

    Do you understand that real perfumers don't use "perfumer's alcohol"?
    What exactly differentiates a "real" perfumer from a fake one? :P

    I have compared Everclear to perfumer's alcohol noted a considerable difference.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    The so called "Perfumer's alcohols" are concocted and sold especially to hobbyists. They will have large amounts of some combination of isopropyl alcohol and various high boiling esters. They are formulated this way so that they can be sold without having to pay the $27/gallon tax on beverage grade alcohol.

    A large fragrance manufacturer would use what is call a "Specially Denatured Alcohol", typically SDA formula 39-C which contains has had added to it 1% diethyl phthalate. By using an SDA a large manufacturer can again avoid the $27/gallon tax on beverage alcohol but this requires that the manufacturer obtain a Federal permit to purchase SDA. This is because an SDA could easily be converted to drinkable alcohol in order to cheat the Feds of their taxes due and the feds do not like to be cheated out of what is due them.

    For a small manufacturer who only uses a few gallons a year it is not worth the hassle of getting an SDA user's permit and instead they will pay the federal tax and use beverage grade alcohol.

    The "Perfumer's alcohol" that the hobbyist vendors sell is no doubt made starting with an SDA to which additional materials are added. And the SDA is made from the same beverage grade alcohol that is used for Everclear.
    Last edited by dcampen; 21st August 2009 at 03:13 AM.
    All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Everclear: Why and why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by dcampen View Post
    The so called "Perfumer's alcohols" are concocted and sold especially to hobbyists. They will have large amounts of some combination of isopropyl alcohol and various high boiling esters. They are formulated this way so that they can be sold without having to pay the $27/gallon tax on beverage grade alcohol.

    A large fragrance manufacturer would use what is call a "Specially Denatured Alcohol", typically SDA formula 39-C which contains has had added to it 1% diethyl phthalate. By using an SDA a large manufacturer can again avoid the $27/gallon tax on beverage alcohol but this requires that the manufacturer obtain a Federal permit to purchase SDA. This is because an SDA could easily be converted to drinkable alcohol in order to cheat the Feds of their taxes due and the feds do not like to be cheated out of what is due them.

    For a small manufacturer who only uses a few gallons a year it is not worth the hassle of getting an SDA user's permit and instead they will pay the federal tax and use beverage grade alcohol.

    The "Perfumer's alcohol" that the hobbyist vendors sell is no doubt made starting with an SDA to which additional materials are added. And the SDA is made from the same beverage grade alcohol that is used for Everclear.
    So what does this mean for me when I get my permit to buy 195 and 200 proof Ethyl alcohol? Can I sell it? What kind of taxes do I have to pay and where would I pay them? Can I ship it a bottle/couple of ounces at a time? Do I need a license to sell it?

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