I swear this "Amber Key Accord" I am using is oakmoss, vetiver, and vanilla.
Unhappy : (
Thread: truest ambergris
I mentioned this in another post but thought it deserved it's own thread.
Best source for ambergris synthetic or reconstitution?
I swear this "Amber Key Accord" I am using is oakmoss, vetiver, and vanilla.
Unhappy : (
Last edited by fennec; 24th August 2009 at 10:10 PM.
The only time I smelled real ambergris I was surprised of the cinnamon and vanilla notes it has. I am afraid that even in natural amber there is a wide range of aspects that can be stronger or fainter depending on the quality, age, etc. of the amber.
I simply would use Ambrox or Cetalox to start with and add cinammons, vanillas and spices, maybe a bit of frankinsence.
Amber and ambergris are two completely different smells. Do a search, there are at least a couple threads discussing them in detail. Basically, what is commonly referred to as amber is usually a blend consisting mainly of labdanum, benzoin and vanilla along with smaller amounts of other ingredients. Ambergris smells marine like and fecal to me.
See the different entries in the Note Pad for Amber Accord (not Ambergris) and for Ambergris. Real ambergris is whale vomit that's been in the ocean a long time. As a natural product it might vary a lot from one piece to another. And it's really rare. The note identification project got some ambergris tincture from promumo.it. It's described as very animalic.
I don't know what to think about profumo.it, they also sell natural musk tincture. Because the trade in musk is not allowed in the whole world for years it is very unlikely that it is the real think and that makes me suspicious about the other products they sell.
I have ambergris tincture from the perfumers apprentice. It has animalic, marine, sweet and even fruity aspects. As mentioned before, the pure ambergris I once smelled had mainly cinnamon and vanilla aspects.
I believe profumo.it does not sell any products from the endangered musk deer, nor any synthetics that attempt to mimic it. His other musks, castoreum, civet, etc., are natural, and he has some informational pages about these on his web site.
Last edited by Asha; 28th August 2009 at 01:46 PM.
However I have taken this product out of my site quite some time ago, and I just now went through our site search engine to try to find it and in fact the search gives empty results.
I believe to have been the only one to provide the real muskdeer.
I also went through google to check if some of my pages offering muskdeer tincture were reachable but the search is also negative.
Your objection about muskdeer is sound, not only is the trade forbidden but the animal is almost extinct (see my report) and trading in it would be thoroughly unethycal.
Although I know the product (which few do), although I know where to buy it and I also know where I could sell it (a lot of request reach me), I have forbidden to myself trading with muskdeer.
However I keep some elasticity and freedom of action and occasionnaly I do offer a free sample vial of muskdeer to my customers of the "kit of animal scents", in the view of helping in their olfactory education.
Last edited by Profumo; 28th August 2009 at 01:52 PM.
I tried the tincture of ambergris from Profumo.it as part of a sampling group, and I thought it smelled very true (if I were to know!) in the sense that it was truly sea-briney, fecal, and had a deep sweetness buried in it. I really loved it, and my little dog liked it too! I spilled some on my pants leg and she couldn't stop sniffing it. It was nice to be able to smell it on its own. I enjoyed that.
All right, thanks Profumo for the explaination, that makes it all clear!
The ambergris tincture you sell, is it form killed wales or from beach findings? As I understand these smell different.
If you have some info in regard please share with us.
Last edited by Profumo; 28th August 2009 at 04:26 PM.
According to Arctander is ambergris (or ambra as he calls it) either found on the coast or found inside the whales. I quote:
"Pieces of ambra are either washed ashore on various temperate ocean coasts and islands, or they are found inside the whales when these great mammals are captured for their oil"
Arctander mentions that the quality of ambergris that has floated in the sea is expected to be superior.
Of course spermwhales are protected species, but so is the musk deer. When there is still musk available I assume that there is also amber available from killed whales.
The point with both ambergris and musk is that only very few people have direct access to these substances. I smelled only one time in my life "real" ambergris. Or was it a fake? The ambergris tincture I bought from the perfumers apprentice is made from the real ambergris I think. I trust Linda from the perfumers apprentice for 100%. But on the other hand I don't know how many pieces of ambergris she smelled in her life. Maybe she has no reference either so maybe her amber is a fake.
In another topic I read about a supplier of steam distilled oakmoss absolute for 39 usd for 4 oz (or 120 gram for 27 euro as I would call it). I have never heared before of French steam distilled oakmoss absolute and a price like that seems too low to be true. But can I be sure? Allright, the steam distillation part is of course wrong, and a French oakmoss absolute for that price is probably not possible. But maybe there is a producer in Kroatia who can make it for that price.
The natural fragrance marked is very hard to get. Unless you have a good library, a state of the art lab (including skilled scientists) and a lot of references and experience it is hard to separate good from bad.
The fresher tha ambergris the more fecal is the smell. Chemical processes happen inside the lumps during the years of floating at sea.
I do not remember if Linda got her Ambergris from me or from Eden Botanical but I had a sample of the Eden's ambergris and it was quite good. In any case I assure you that you can trust her fully. She is professional and honest.
One may also get some from New Zealand. Once you have had a real piece into your hands you bo not mistake it anymore with the fake ones (Singapore looking like exactly like ambergris but without the smell) or with the so called "amber" ones (mostly Cumarines).
Linda is probably the only place in the US where you can see and smell real muskdeer. Only for this it is worth a long travel.
In case I was not clear before: I have quite a lot of products from The Perfumers Apprentice, including the ambergris tincture. All products I purchased there were of a great quality, I have absolutely no reason to doubt Linda or her products at all.
I found Cetalox and Ambroxan very, very different from the real ambergris I have smelled. I think it's closer with some lactoscaton and civer, but still so so far.
fennec, I promise you this one: clary sage essential oil. I am almost certain it is a main ingrediant in agarscent's white ambergris and from what I have heard clary sage does contain natural ambrene in it. It smells to me like agarscents white ambergris has clary sage and orangeblssom and maybe a little rose? on top of the ambergris in it. Clary Sage does not have that animal note nore salty note but it does have that incensy note that ambergris has. I tell you, for sure it is not the same as ambergris but in small amounts I can bet you that it will do wonders. Also maybe adding very small amounts of indol will bring that animal note?
I found the natural quality quite good.
Also I bought some ambergris from Great Britain Ebay seller - he used to sell two different sorts of ambergris.
And I should tell that profumo.it sells great quality ambergris tincture too.
No synthetics will give the same odour profile.
Vetiver The Great!!!
Yes adgree with moon fish. The NZ company had very good grey ambergris.
I just realized my wife has a necklace from her grandmother she bought in the 70's from Iceland perhaps. Its a necklace with nice big chunks of dark licoricey color ambergris or ambra as they call it in swedish.....it has a musky, slightly fecal smell, but with a big sweet undertone......very nice smell...ive been reading endlessly about it and to my suprise ambra is ambergris!
"Strive for perfection in everything, take the best that exists and make it better, if it doesn't exist create it, accept nothing nearly right or good enough." Sir Henry Royce
I've had luck emulating ambergris by combining ambroxan with a small amount of oak moss.
If you want a recreation I can recommend the IFF product Ambergris Oliffac - they produce two variants one to suit European regulation (which you can buy at Hermitage) and one to suit North American regulation, which so far as I know is only available by the Kg.
Iíve actually just obtained a large new piece of the natural stuff, which I started tincturing on New Years Day after getting a friend who is better with the camera than I am to document the tests and the start of the tincturing process for me so that I can blog about it in detail. Iíll put links here when thatís online.
For how long should it be tinctured?
So how do they compare? The olifac and tincture?