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  1. #1
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    Default Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    "...Perfume makers, sniffers and vendors are upset over the International Fragrance Association's (IFRA) latest rules governing what can go into a scent's formula.

    With the association aggressively seeking to reduce or eliminate allergens, some insiders say Chanel's iconic No. 5 perfume may be in danger.

    "There are many unanswered questions, and I doubt that Chanel will ever speak the truth because this sensitive matter might affect sales and corporate image," said Octavian-Sever Coifan, a perfumer in Paris.

    IFRA groups 90 percent of the world's fragrance houses and acts as the industry's main regulator, often issuing more aggressive safety standards than public watchdogs such as the European Union.

    For member companies, compliance with IFRA is mandatory.

    "There seems to be a steady build-up of regulatory rules," said Luca Turin, a scientist and perfume expert at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

    "All the legacy fragrances, these works of art, are being steadily destroyed," Turin said. "You aren't obliged to put airbags on a vintage car. Why do you with perfumes?"..."


    Read the full article here. Thanks to Nathan Branch's blog for the tip.
    Last edited by mikeperez23; 26th September 2009 at 02:53 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Thanks for posting this here, Mike. A bit of discussion appeared on the MFD yesterday, but it really needs to be here.

    My initial heat has diminished, but I'm left with the attitude that too many in the industry are simply shuffling toward the guillotine, unwilling to put up a righteous struggle against the injustice of it all.

    Frankly, I find it the height of irony that the movers and shakers in the fragrance world are wringing their hands in timidity, while we, the customers, are finally getting fed up.

    Well, I for one will give up my oakmoss when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

    OMG - I just had an amazing thought. Maybe the counterfeiters can save us by refusing to sign on to IFRA, and making accurate copies of the vintage scents!



    More Chanel than Chanel? More Guerlain than Guerlain? Why not? The counterfeiters aren't a crisis - they're an opportunity!

    Hey! IFRA!
    * * * *

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Here's my thought- I am quite annoyed about it all really.
    The ice caps are melting , the polar bears are losing their home and will no doubt be extinct some time soon and the IFRA are worried about jasmine and oakmoss ! There are bigger things to worry about than that.
    It's a storm in a teacup .

    Redneck - wouldn't it just be ironic if the counterfeiters do produce better perfumes than the originals ,eventually .
    Last edited by Mimi Gardenia; 26th September 2009 at 05:47 AM.
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/370...o-Profumo-Onda
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Big deal. Just give the damn stuff some other names. It's not like IFRA's gonna go CSI on them...

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    Big deal. Just give the damn stuff some other names. It's not like IFRA's gonna go CSI on them...
    Given that IFRA is essentially composed of its member companies (the fragrance houses themselves), and the prevalence of competitive analysis in the industry, then, actually, they WILL go CSI on the perfumes, and in a big way. And GC units don't care what you call it. If you use something, everybody is going to know.

    But that does bring up an interesting question. If an IFRA member company violated a restriction, would others follow suit? Or would the offender get ratted on and kicked out pronto? Threatened? Fined? Curious what IFRA's teeth look like.
    * * * *

  6. #6

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    I find it odd that the perfumers are not fighting this more and I smell a conspiracy- cheaper synthetic ingredients for all.

    So.....it's ok to serve Big Macs, fries by the pound, buckets of Slurpees, & Kentucky Fried Chicken to the citizens but they need to be protected from perfume?

    It does seem to me they are being stricter with these regs than they are with food regs. Or even drug regs, ie for vitamins and homeopathic stuff.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Why kill the goose that lays the golden eggs ? I don't understand it .
    Like 3xasif said, it's a conspiracy to use cheaper ingredients. I mean when most of the public don't know, care and wear Paris Hilton , I guess they think they can take us all for a ride.
    I really. don't. get. it .
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/370...o-Profumo-Onda
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by 3xasif View Post
    I find it odd that the perfumers are not fighting this more and I smell a conspiracy- cheaper synthetic ingredients for all.
    I agree that it's odd. Except for some occasional pained sighs, they generally don't make nearly as much fuss as one might think.

    I would agree that there is a certain amount of collusion, but my guess is that the perfumers are out of the loop. They're probably being regarded as the finicky diva talent who, in the end, are professionals, and will use what they are told. This is extremely common in the IT industry. People within IT would like to use all sorts of tools that they believe are best for the job, even free ones, but they are frequently forbidden by management. The way I see it, fragrance management does want to make happy customers, but they want to do it on their terms: as cheaply as possible, without lawsuits or external regulations, and with a variety of other agendas fulfilled. Perfumers who take issue with management and want to do it on their own are welcome to hit the road, and I presume that few if any take that offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3xasif View Post
    So.....it's ok to serve Big Macs, fries by the pound, buckets of Slurpees, & Kentucky Fried Chicken to the citizens but they need to be protected from perfume?
    Regarding the serving of the fine foods you mention (), I am afraid my answer is "not for long". The regulation-lovers in the States are already coming out of the woodwork with "fat taxes" and the like. If the government pays for people's health errors, it will start demanding cost-cutting behaviors. I'm not taking a position on the health care hot potato (no politics) - just stating my belief that regulation of food consumption will come as surely as the next installment of IFRA.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3xasif View Post
    It does seem to me they are being stricter with these regs than they are with food regs. Or even drug regs, ie for vitamins and homeopathic stuff.
    I agree totally. Were it not that homeopathic cures are basically harmless, I'm sure the regulators would jump all over them, but otherwise, I guess that functional drugs are a harder target than "luxury" perfumes.
    * * * *

  9. #9

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I agree that it's odd. Except for some occasional pained sighs, they generally don't make nearly as much fuss as one might think.

    I would agree that there is a certain amount of collusion, but my guess is that the perfumers are out of the loop. They're probably being regarded as the finicky diva talent who, in the end, are professionals, and will use what they are told. This is extremely common in the IT industry. People within IT would like to use all sorts of tools that they believe are best for the job, even free ones, but they are frequently forbidden by management. The way I see it, fragrance management does want to make happy customers, but they want to do it on their terms: as cheaply as possible, without lawsuits or external regulations, and with a variety of other agendas fulfilled. Perfumers who take issue with management and want to do it on their own are welcome to hit the road, and I presume that few if any take that offer.

    Regarding the serving of the fine foods you mention (), I am afraid my answer is "not for long". The regulation-lovers in the States are already coming out of the woodwork with "fat taxes" and the like. If the government pays for people's health errors, it will start demanding cost-cutting behaviors. I'm not taking a position on the health care hot potato (no politics) - just stating my belief that regulation of food consumption will come as surely as the next installment of IFRA.

    I agree totally. Were it not that homeopathic cures are basically harmless, I'm sure the regulators would jump all over them, but otherwise, I guess that functional drugs are a harder target than "luxury" perfumes.
    Its a sad day when people cannot take responsibility for what they eat. It seems they need to be saved from themselves. Feeling you on the healthcare hot potato...onto the next subject

    Well, Zicam comes to mind as a un regulated problem that popped up...especially for perfumistas

    Perhaps the perfumers themselves think that no one will notice the differences? I find it shocking that the artistic divas who create perfume are not at least stomping their feet about something that will compromise their craft. It seems bizarre.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticknot View Post
    Why kill the goose that lays the golden eggs ? I don't understand it .
    Like 3xasif said, it's a conspiracy to use cheaper ingredients. I mean when most of the public don't know, care and wear Paris Hilton , I guess they think they can take us all for a ride.
    I really. don't. get. it .
    I like your analogy, so I'll extend it a bit. The goose that lays real golden eggs has long ago been moved to the back room at Guerlain and the others. She is occasionally used to crank out a real golden egg for toney, Swarovski-encrusted CEO gifts, or three-to-four-digit perfumista specials, but otherwise she is retired. She has sisters on Niche Farms, but they never really produced the Grade A Extra-Large jobs that she did. Meanwhile, newer android geese crank out brass and gold-plated eggs at an enormous rate. Most of the villagers are quite happy with brass eggs, and the few "eggsperts" are happy with their gold-plated ones. There is talk that the witch Ifra is going to cast a spell and force the robot geese to lay brass-plated eggs. The farmer is already calculating how much can be made on the brass-plated eggs. The eggsperts are suddenly getting worried about the prospects of everything becoming brass plate. Stay tuned...
    * * * *

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by 3xasif View Post
    Well, Zicam comes to mind as a un regulated problem that popped up...especially for perfumistas
    Zicam. I shudder at the very thought. Thank goodness I never tried that stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3xasif View Post
    Perhaps the perfumers themselves think that no one will notice the differences? I find it shocking that the artistic divas who create perfume are not at least stomping their feet about something that will compromise their craft. It seems bizarre.
    Exactly. I'll bet they are stomping their feet in private. They most likely pray that nobody will notice the difference. They are probably getting big bonuses when nobody spots the switcheroo.

    I can just imagine the sort of "damage control" questions they get from management. I imagine that it's exactly like everything else in business...

    "IFRA is thinking about <insert goofy reg here>."

    "Good God! <expletive>. I can't work with that. Everything will turn to <expletive>. They can't be serious."

    "Well, it's not certain yet. And not next year. But in 2 years...."

    "I can't believe it. That's a 10% reduction in <famous fragrance>. It's going to kill us. It's the end. We're doomed. What are these numbskulls thinking?"

    "Look <famous French name>. If we had to rework <famous perfume>, could you do it at all? It doesn't have to be perfect. Just good enough that only a few clients will notice."

    "Well, it could be done in principle. But I would have to use <pricey synthetic component> at twice the rate we're using it now. And I'd also need more <another component>."

    "So it could be done?"

    "Well, yes. But it's a travesty. It will never smell exactly the same."

    "That's OK. I just need to know it can be done."

    "Good God. Have you told <another perfumer responsible for an affected perfume>?"

    ------------

    So sad. I don't even want to speculate on the "talking points" needed to deflect the fact that real perfumes are most likely getting their styles cramped by these regs - undoubtedly a forbidden truth. I feel sorry for perfumers who are probably being asked to put a happy face spin or even outright lies on various perfume shockers.

    Someday, at the moment when perfumery has nearly consumed itself, the truth will come out....

    "Vent Vert is Iso E Super!" *


    * (0.1% Iso E Super, that is. )
    * * * *

  12. #12

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    lol @ Iso E super in VV

    This is funny too:

    http://tuileries.blogspot.com/2009/0...em-lesson.html

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by 3xasif View Post
    LMAO

    At last, somebody found something useful to do with those damn cards.

    Still LMAO
    * * * *

  14. #14

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I agree that it's odd. Except for some occasional pained sighs, they generally don't make nearly as much fuss as one might think.

    I would agree that there is a certain amount of collusion, but my guess is that the perfumers are out of the loop. They're probably being regarded as the finicky diva talent who, in the end, are professionals, and will use what they are told. This is extremely common in the IT industry. People within IT would like to use all sorts of tools that they believe are best for the job, even free ones, but they are frequently forbidden by management. The way I see it, fragrance management does want to make happy customers, but they want to do it on their terms: as cheaply as possible, without lawsuits or external regulations, and with a variety of other agendas fulfilled. Perfumers who take issue with management and want to do it on their own are welcome to hit the road, and I presume that few if any take that offer.



    Regarding the serving of the fine foods you mention (), I am afraid my answer is "not for long". The regulation-lovers in the States are already coming out of the woodwork with "fat taxes" and the like. If the government pays for people's health errors, it will start demanding cost-cutting behaviors. I'm not taking a position on the health care hot potato (no politics) - just stating my belief that regulation of food consumption will come as surely as the next installment of IFRA.



    I agree totally. Were it not that homeopathic cures are basically harmless, I'm sure the regulators would jump all over them, but otherwise, I guess that functional drugs are a harder target than "luxury" perfumes.

    The difference is that the fragrance industry has initiated the regulations. Food and supplement companies tend to fight such regulations vigorously.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Anyone looking for a new career? We need to infiltrate the IFRA, get a few BNers in there, and fight'em from the inside!
    Last edited by SculptureOfSoul; 27th September 2009 at 06:42 PM.
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    - http://www.basenotes.net/threads/301...n-Man-and-more

  16. #16

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Rubbish!

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by Minou2 View Post
    The difference is that the fragrance industry has initiated the regulations. Food and supplement companies tend to fight such regulations vigorously.
    Now THIS is the part that makes me wonder. Is the industry so desperate to protect the illusions of perfume, that an open fight over components is to be avoided at all costs? Or are they just so empathetic and green that they embrace regulation enthusiastically? Or is this attitude of compliance a residue from past shamings over animal cruelty and the like? I just find it hard to believe that the beauty industry, unafraid to take on almost anybody, actually pre-empts regulation so willingly. I would love to hear an insider perspective on the rationale (if anybody is talking).
    * * * *

  18. #18

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Now THIS is the part that makes me wonder. Is the industry so desperate to protect the illusions of perfume, that an open fight over components is to be avoided at all costs? Or are they just so empathetic and green that they embrace regulation enthusiastically? Or is this attitude of compliance a residue from past shamings over animal cruelty and the like? I just find it hard to believe that the beauty industry, unafraid to take on almost anybody, actually pre-empts regulation so willingly. I would love to hear an insider perspective on the rationale (if anybody is talking).
    I agree, it's weird. To be fair, they're obviously trying to regulate the industry before someone does it for them, just not doing it in a smart way.

    Your point about protecting the illusion is a good one. I've always thought it strange that fragrance as a personal care product still doesn't require a full list of ingredients. I don't see how that can last.

  19. #19

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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    It's nothing but a cartel with all its destructive power, and effective globally. 'Not smart'? I think they are smart enough to maximize profits on the world perfume markets. Patented jasmine oil brings more than harvesting it in third world countries even. At the final stage of Grasse history, those jasmine fields have been vastly reduced, and the remaining acres bought by Chanel for image purposaes mainly. I doubt the fields would be big enough to warrant the growing demand for No. 5 worldwide the way Chanels head perfumer loves to describing it.
    Last edited by narcus; 28th September 2009 at 08:57 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    OK, International Fragrance Association (IFRA) includes 90 percent (probably by liters sold) of the world's fragrance houses and acts as the industry's main regulator, often issuing more aggressive safety standards than public watchdogs such as the European Union. For member companies, compliance with IFRA is mandatory. But I don't see anything to suggest that natural fragarance houses & niche houses can't ignore the regulations and sell in Europe. This looks like an opportunity for someone to expand a lot. Does anyone know a natural or niche house with ambitions and a publically traded stock? After the last two years, my 401(k) could use a little magic!

  21. #21

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by Minou2 View Post
    The difference is that the fragrance industry has initiated the regulations. Food and supplement companies tend to fight such regulations vigorously.
    THIS is what I find so puzzling. And, what leads me to believe *this* is all in the name of fatter profits.

    Quote Originally Posted by ECaruthers View Post
    OK, International Fragrance Association (IFRA) includes 90 percent (probably by liters sold) of the world's fragrance houses and acts as the industry's main regulator, often issuing more aggressive safety standards than public watchdogs such as the European Union. For member companies, compliance with IFRA is mandatory. But I don't see anything to suggest that natural fragarance houses & niche houses can't ignore the regulations and sell in Europe. This looks like an opportunity for someone to expand a lot. Does anyone know a natural or niche house with ambitions and a publically traded stock? After the last two years, my 401(k) could use a little magic!
    Interesting, I had no idea. But does this apply to Fragrance manufacturers as well? Companies that are not affiliated with a "house" but create scents for anyone willing to pay? Wondering what the criteria is to be a "Member Company".

  22. #22

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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    To synchronise product and market policies IFRA will of course use every possible means to influence EU policies and standards. I wouldn't be surprised to find the major fashion designer brands of Europe in the IFRA member list. Possibly a few niche houses would rather use allergy warning stickers than rely on synthetics only but if the big players vote for legal restrictions small firms hardly have alternatives left in Europe and North America. Maybe Lutens will sell "A la Nuit" in Casablanca exclusively. Maybe there are chances arising for niche companies in India and Arabic countries, and for more e-traders operating from Singapore or Hong Kong.
    Last edited by narcus; 28th September 2009 at 02:35 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by ECaruthers View Post
    OK, International Fragrance Association (IFRA) includes 90 percent (probably by liters sold) of the world's fragrance houses and acts as the industry's main regulator, often issuing more aggressive safety standards than public watchdogs such as the European Union. For member companies, compliance with IFRA is mandatory. But I don't see anything to suggest that natural fragarance houses & niche houses can't ignore the regulations and sell in Europe. This looks like an opportunity for someone to expand a lot. Does anyone know a natural or niche house with ambitions and a publically traded stock? After the last two years, my 401(k) could use a little magic!

    I'm hopeful these houses will have an opportunity and make good use of it.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    I think 3xasif is on to something. WATCH THE WIZARD BEHIND THE CURTAIN. A cautionary tale:

    New Coke. Remember that? There were wild bells and whistles for a "new recipe" of the iconic drink. People went nuts. Coca Cola then "listened to the customer" and brought back "Coke Classic," which ostensibly had the original taste. Please note it's "Classic Coke" and not "Original recipe Coke." That's right. It's not the same stuff....original Coke was made with Cane Sugar, New Coke and Coca Cola "Classic" are made with far cheaper high fructose corn syrup. The conspiracy theorist in me believes that the transition to HFCS was the actual reason for New Coke...smoke and mirrors to hide a profit-making recipe change.

    BTW, if you want cane sugar "original" Coke, you can still track that flavour down by purchasing Coke in the Carribean (where cane sugar is cheaper than HFCS) and in the "Kosher for Passover" aisle of your grocery store each spring. (HFCS is a grain and not Kosher for Passover, so the yellow-capped Passover Coke uses cane sugar.)
    Do you think "Old Lady Perfume" is a compliment? Join the Scent of an Old Woman Social Group and chat in-depth about vintage and classic fragrances!


    *~~________________________________________~~*

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    This is distressing to read about.
    FWIW, IRFA's website contains a lot of information. Here is a link to their "membership" page: http://tinyurl.com/ydg5x6n

    [sniff]

  26. #26

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by 3xasif View Post
    I find it odd that the perfumers are not fighting this more and I smell a conspiracy- cheaper synthetic ingredients for all.

    So.....it's ok to serve Big Macs, fries by the pound, buckets of Slurpees, & Kentucky Fried Chicken to the citizens but they need to be protected from perfume?

    It does seem to me they are being stricter with these regs than they are with food regs. Or even drug regs, ie for vitamins and homeopathic stuff.
    3xasif, good point.

    When in doubt, follow the money trail. There is something behind this.

    Pharmeceutical industries rule moves like this. For instance, the public can be treated of thyroid illness with CHEAP, natural slaughterhouse by-products for pennies (pork thyroids) but the pharm industry insists that synthetics are best. Result? $$ for the companies. BTW, pork thyroid have been used for at least the last 100 years, and now the authorities want to say its unsafe.

    I am dismayed that big $$$ is taking a shot at the perfume industry for some reason. More regulation, more money in someone's pocket. All told, it's silly to have "allergy" regulations on something like perfume.
    Last edited by Primrose; 28th September 2009 at 08:21 PM.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  27. #27

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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by queen cupcake View Post
    This is distressing to read about.
    FWIW, IRFA's website contains a lot of information. Here is a link to their "membership" page: http://tinyurl.com/ydg5x6n

    [sniff]
    Thank you, that's the link I had been looking for. The whole smelly world in the firm grip of the infamous six!
    Last edited by narcus; 29th September 2009 at 11:34 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Purchasing perfumes is an option chosen (generally) by adults. THEY make the decision to purchase. THEY make the decision NOT to purchase. If people have a problem with a perfume, they simply don’t buy it. It’s not mandatory, the way eating or drugs is mandatory for survival, yet, how are doctors allowed to push thousands of drugs to people under the pretext that it will make them healthy, when each has a myriad of side affects that can even include death, yet THEY are allowed to continue unabated?

    Honestly, the whole world has gone topsy-turvy! Things that SHOULD be regulated are NOT, and things that everyone should have the right to, are suddenly being regulated and governed by corporate entities, as if we don’t have the brains ourselves to make our own simple cosmetic decisions. What has happened to common sense and personal judgment? Frankly, the world’s gone mad, and it’s beginning to scare me!

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphaea View Post
    Purchasing perfumes is an option chosen (generally) by adults. THEY make the decision to purchase. THEY make the decision NOT to purchase. If people have a problem with a perfume, they simply don’t buy it. It’s not mandatory, the way eating or drugs is mandatory for survival, yet, how are doctors allowed to push thousands of drugs to people under the pretext that it will make them healthy, when each has a myriad of side affects that can even include death, yet THEY are allowed to continue unabated?

    Honestly, the whole world has gone topsy-turvy! Things that SHOULD be regulated are NOT, and things that everyone should have the right to, are suddenly being regulated and governed by corporate entities, as if we don’t have the brains ourselves to make our own simple cosmetic decisions. What has happened to common sense and personal judgment? Frankly, the world’s gone mad, and it’s beginning to scare me!
    These sound like perfume thought crimes. Such thoughts could lead to questioning of IFRA. You have also used the inappropriate phrases "common sense" and "personal judgement". Please report for re-education.

    (j/k )
    * * * *

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    I love the idea of "fat taxes". I agree with the notion that things that degragde our health and offer minimal nutrition, should be slapped with a tax. Theres no reason we as a society should have to pay for your inability to control what you shovel down your throat when it comes time that all those extra pounds you're carrying around on various portions of your body begin to take their toll on your health. Different issue than what's being raised here though.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post


    Exactly. I'll bet they are stomping their feet in private. They most likely pray that nobody will notice the difference. They are probably getting big bonuses when nobody spots the switcheroo.
    The devious bit is that it's already started. I had foolishly imagined that we would have until the end of the year before these new products hit the stores (why on Earth did I imagine that? :P) but a BNer pointed out that the latest Bandit has no oak moss listed in the ingredient sections. Intrigued, I pulled out the sample the FF&C New York branch sent me last month and, lo an behold, no oak moss on the list! The contents of the vial smell like a neutered Bandit that joined a convent. Pleasant enough but not worth spending real money on and no where near the strength of the bottle sitting on my desk.
    I realize that oak moss is not prohibited, just regulated to something like .1% combined with the amount of tree moss. Tree moss is still included in this Bandit formula although it may be because Givaudan has yet to produce a suitable tree moss base.


    So far we have Chanel on record saying that (concerning No. 5) "Evidently when the new standards were issued we immediately checked the percentages in our finished products and in none of our fragrances is the recommended level exceeded.'" So what we need is a comparison of the recent Chanel No. 5 ingredient list ( I mean the ones they are forced to tell you about on the back of the box =) ) to see if anything has changed. If they have we can call their bluff and perhaps dissuade them from shilling cheap junk and pretending it's still the unchanged formula.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zizanioides View Post
    The devious bit is that it's already started. I had foolishly imagined that we would have until the end of the year before these new products hit the stores (why on Earth did I imagine that? :P) but a BNer pointed out that the latest Bandit has no oak moss listed in the ingredient sections.

    ....

    So far we have Chanel on record saying that (concerning No. 5) "Evidently when the new standards were issued we immediately checked the percentages in our finished products and in none of our fragrances is the recommended level exceeded.'" So what we need is a comparison of the recent Chanel No. 5 ingredient list ( I mean the ones they are forced to tell you about on the back of the box =) ) to see if anything has changed. If they have we can call their bluff and perhaps dissuade them from shilling cheap junk and pretending it's still the unchanged formula.
    I think that would be very interesting! I'm in the market for Eau Première, and presumably that one's safe. But maybe somebody has a very recent box of the regular EDP.

    Now I may have spent too much time around liars in my youth and lawyers in my adulthood, but that statement by Chanel completely skates on a pre-emptive reformulation. As in, "Thank God the reformulation went out in time, well before the new standards were issued, and nobody noticed." Not saying it's true - just saying it's possible.

    Personally, I think the solution is for the industry to move to the sale of limited edition original formula stuff with fancy bottles and heavy warnings on shocking orange tied-on tags. The people who want the real McCoy are going to frankly drool at the orange tags hanging from the nice packaging, as in "OMG! REAL oakmoss! Original strength!" The perfumistas take off the tags, throw them in the garbage, and it's all over. Or keep the tag in the packaging for resale. The companies can sell the unlabeled stuff to everybody else. It's a win-win situation for everybody. What I'm thinking is something in between the absurdly priced corporate gifts in real crystal and the regular department store stuff.

    The problem with IFRA is that is says everybody has to drink beer, not wine or whiskey. It's clearly ridiculous. There's no need to have a lowest common denominator.
    * * * *

  33. #33

    Default Re: Article in National Post - Allergen rules...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I think that would be very interesting! I'm in the market for Eau Première, and presumably that one's safe. But maybe somebody has a very recent box of the regular EDP.

    Now I may have spent too much time around liars in my youth and lawyers in my adulthood, but that statement by Chanel completely skates on a pre-emptive reformulation. As in, "Thank God the reformulation went out in time, well before the new standards were issued, and nobody noticed." Not saying it's true - just saying it's possible.

    Personally, I think the solution is for the industry to move to the sale of limited edition original formula stuff with fancy bottles and heavy warnings on shocking orange tied-on tags. The people who want the real McCoy are going to frankly drool at the orange tags hanging from the nice packaging, as in "OMG! REAL oakmoss! Original strength!" The perfumistas take off the tags, throw them in the garbage, and it's all over. Or keep the tag in the packaging for resale. The companies can sell the unlabeled stuff to everybody else. It's a win-win situation for everybody. What I'm thinking is something in between the absurdly priced corporate gifts in real crystal and the regular department store stuff.

    The problem with IFRA is that is says everybody has to drink beer, not wine or whiskey. It's clearly ridiculous. There's no need to have a lowest common denominator.
    That would be a great solution! And its one possible ray of sunshine for fragrance lovers everywhere.

    And yes, I agree, it does reek of a preemptive reformulation, they have had a year to tinker with the formula. Still, I think there could be some merit in revealing any changes that would refute their claims. I think people might actually take notice if it were proved that the great Chanel No. 5 no longer exists. If anyone has a box with the Chanel No. 5 ingredients listed on it I would greatly appreciate them being posted along with the date of purchase. I'm also writing to Chanel to see if they will provide me with any information (we will see how well that goes :P)

    And I thought the date for the changes was January 10, 2010 but according to the IRFA website its now in August (http://www.ifraorg.org/Home/Code,+St...s/page.aspx/56 )

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