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  1. #1

    AnthonyDG's Avatar
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    Default Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Jacques Polge - the nose behind many beautiful Chanel fragrances and Tiffany for Men. I wanted to share my notes comparing vintage (prior to reformulation) to current versions on Tiffany for Men, Antaeus, and Egoiste (including Egoiste Cologne Concentree):

    Tiffany for Men
    - I compared current EdT purchased this summer to vintage EdT. I get a hint of oakmoss in the vintage (yellow juice) but otherwise these two are strikingly similar. TfM was introduced in 1989.

    The vintage does have a smoother, much more subtle dry-down. TfM was advertised as "The power of understatement". I can certainly see the vintage being much more understated than the current, which is a bit more "perfumey". I gather this is from synthetics replacing notes such as the sandalwood and rosewood or, at the very least, allowing for much less quantity.

    This reformulation is certainly not dramatic to my nose and I don't think I would go out of my way to seek out the vintage. I would love to see a splash bottle of this fragrance though - to date I've only ever seen the spray.

    Chanel Antaeus
    - Current EdT vs. vintage EdT. The reformulation is so drastic here that it's difficult to be insouciant about the changes made to the current formula after trying the vintage. My first thought about vintage Antaeus was leather - a deep, rich, black leather like TF Tuscan Leather (without the fruit/sweetness).

    In the anemic version available at (some) fine department stores it's nearly impossible for me to find the richness and depth the vintage has. Could it be the sandalwood? The patchouli also plays much more of a role in the vintage - replaced by a sickly sweet floral accord in the current. I don't like the reformulated Antaeus and don't believe I can warm up to it. It makes a mockery of its predecessor more than paying homage or kowtowing. These are two completely different fragrances to me. The vintage is a leather/sandalwood/patchouli. The current version takes the vintage, waters it down and removes the sandalwood entirely, and then goes on to add the musky/floral notes. Stunning.

    Chanel Egoiste (& Egoiste CC)
    - I recently procured both the vintage Egoiste and Egoiste Cologne Concentree along with some "current" Egoiste - all are somewhat difficult to find now and are totally gone from the department stores.

    Vintage Egoiste does employ the tangerine/citrus top notes, though it does it with grace. Perhaps it's the other notes (now removed/replaced/altered) which seemed to jive a lot better with the citrus. I can see how Egoiste has its loyal fans when I do the side-by-side.

    Now comparing vintage Egoiste to Egoiste CC, the biggest difference is in the dry-down. Egoiste CC offers a brighter, tangy/tart versus the almost sour/stale Egoiste. I'm not sure how many reformulations Egoiste has had... perhaps the vintage I obtained was already reformulated(!) but nonetheless, Egoiste Cologne Concentree is my favorite so far without having tried the enigmatic Bois Noir.

    So with the current vs. vintage Egoiste, the best analogy I can offer is to imagine taking an original document, photocopying it, photocopying the photocopy, etc. until there's a faded shadow of the original. Well perhaps that's not the best analogy - I don't think Egoiste was "watered down", but something was definitely removed (again, sandalwood) and never put back again.

    My theory is that Chanel has taken Egoiste off of shelves because the current version has become too much a parody of its former self. Please don't let that insult. The fact that current Egoiste is still very wearable is a testament to the original formula. I just loathe the fact that we've seen the degeneration of Egoiste so rapidly since its inception. These reformulations and talk of vintages make one feel old before his time.

    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    I wore and loved Antaeus in the 80s. The stuff available now is really a joke. I don't have that much previous experiences with either Tiffany or Egoiste, so if anything happens to them, I'm not so sad. Pity about Antaeus though, I tried it again recently and while it's still loud, the leather/patch has been minimized.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 8th October 2009 at 02:18 PM.

  3. #3

    jathanas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Thanks for the notes Anthony, fun reading.

    I'm with you 100% on the new Antaeus getting sand kicked in its face at the beach by the original.

    I got frustrated when comparing new vs old. I resolved to enjoy only the best of what's available to me today e.g. I chose not to purchase a vintage bottle of Antaeus because it would prolong my misery in that regard.
    Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels so good.

  4. #4
    Hasupk@gmail.com's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    wonderful!
    I was about to ask you myself and then I see this
    Off-Site Decants =) (updated 05/16/12)
    http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic....7994440fd3c0ab

  5. #5
    Merlino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    On Antaeus: my dad wears it religiously and has done so for all my life. I've never noticed a difference in how he smelled tbh.

    Dunno about Egoiste being pulled, it's still widely available here in Europe (well, in The Netherlands anyway). Never liked it so I'm not inclined to care Not a big fan of any of Polge's offerings to be honest... well, with the exception of Sycomore and maybe others from the Les Exclusifs that I haven't tried yet.

    My fav Chanel -No 19- was made by a different perfumer: Henri Robert. I have a small bottle of 80's EDP and I have a bottle of current EDP. The current one is a fine fragrance, in quality and smell every bit as good as the vintage. However, they do not smell the same. Vintage No 19 is much darker than current... One is a true chypre, the other is a good example of a modern frag with a true chypre feel.
    Last edited by Merlino; 8th October 2009 at 07:51 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Yes, …goÔste is still available but it's not the same. Luckily, I have a vintage bottle my brother bought many years ago.

    I happen to think that Antaeus is still a good fragrance, but it's nowhere near its former opulence. I have about 200 ml of AS and 200 ml of EdT of the vintage, so it should last a while.

  7. #7
    jenson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Thnx for the beautiful write up Anthony! very informative..

  8. #8

    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Great thread, Anthony! Many thanks for taking the time to investigate and post your insightful findings.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Nice detailing

    I remember the vintage Egoiste faintly. My dad was a Chanel man, Egoiste, Antaeus, CPM et al were his staples -- I remember I used to sneak a spray or two from his bottles sometimes.


    PVC and Leather. A Chain and a feather




  10. #10
    vita odorifera
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Illuminating post, AnthonyDG.

    Not mentioned is Chanel pour Homme Concentree, also by J Polge, which i find strikingly similar to his Tiffany for Men that it seems they are almost basically the same, merely brand-engineered.
    ointments and perfume delight the heart....

  11. #11

    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Quote Originally Posted by perfaddict View Post
    Illuminating post, AnthonyDG.

    Not mentioned is Chanel pour Homme Concentree, also by J Polge, which i find strikingly similar to his Tiffany for Men that it seems they are almost basically the same, merely brand-engineered.
    I vaguely remember this being true for my nose too, isn't Tiffany less expensive than the Chanel?
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 8th October 2009 at 02:18 PM.

  12. #12
    TigerJuice's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Indeed a VERY illuminating post Anthony:

    Vintage Antaeus - I have never experienced the vintage Antaeus, so I will have to live with my current reformulated version. To me, it has a citrus top end with a light musky drydown, quite different than you description of the vintage Antaeus. However, I am really not fond of too much leather in fragrances, more a light leather like vintage Bel Ami. I reached this conclusion when I recently sampled Tuscan Leather. Once the berry like top notes dry down, there are to my nose very prominent smooth leather basenotes. This is about as much leather as I prefer, if not more leather. It is a good thing everso is not around, or I am sure he would be on me for this.

    Egoiste - I am very fortunate to have a bottle of Egoiste CC. The current formulation of Egoiste really does not do anything for me where Egoiste CC is much richer, deeper and complex with much more sandalwood. I have never experienced vintage Egoiste.

    Tiffany for Men - Also extremely interesting. I have often thought that Polge or someone else amplified TfM a little too much, too much of a perfume vibe going on. A fragrance like this should indeed be understated class, which from your description the vintage TfM was. However, I still enjoy wearing the current formulation of TfM.

    Bravo Post!

    TJ

  13. #13
    manicboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    I have a TfM splash I bought on Ebay that I believe to be vintage. I smells great though I've never attempted to compare to the current one.

    I also have the current versions of Antaeus & Egoiste and have never smelled the vintages. I still get a lot of sandalwood from Egoiste so I don't what some people say about it's lack of presence.
    "I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."

    Egon Schiele - Self-Potrait


    My classics: Dior Homme EdT, YSL Rive Gauche PH, Helmut Lang Cuiron, L'Occitane Neroli (vintage), Davidoff Zino, L'Occitane Eau des Baux

    http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/2976

  14. #14

    AnthonyDG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    I believe it is - I only paid $100 (plus 12% tax) for my 100ml bottle of Tiffany right from the boutique, whereas I've seen Chanel PM Concentree going for $120 USD (not including shipping/tax).

    Personally I'm not sure I see the parallels between Tiffany and PM Concentree. Tiffany seems to be devoid of the citrus opening, and though it does share some of the notes, my impression was that they were certainly two unique fragrances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    I vaguely remember this being true for my nose too, isn't Tiffany less expensive than the Chanel?

  15. #15

    AnthonyDG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    The TfM splash would definitely be vintage - I'm not sure I could give an exact year, though I did have someone at Tiffany go through the list of all of the TfM products over the years.

    Is there any way you could post a photo of it?

    Quote Originally Posted by manicboy View Post
    I have a TfM splash I bought on Ebay that I believe to be vintage. I smells great though I've never attempted to compare to the current one.

  16. #16

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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Thanks, everyone, for the glowing feedback and informative responses in return! I love doing research into vintages and comparing - it has become somewhat of a focal point for me with this hobby now.

    I thought I would advise on my experiences with Chanel Pour Monsieur/PM Concentree. Jacques Polge must have been involved during the reformulations (also around the time when Pour Monsieur Concentree was created).

    Chanel Pour Monsieur - Still available here in Canada. I was fortunate enough to have inherited a bottle of Chanel For Men also known as A Gentleman's Cologne (UK) which Pour Monsieur is based on. There is a huge difference here - my bottle of For Men is at least 30 years old. It does have a citrus opening, though the citrus isn't the bright, neroli/lemon citrus one finds in today's PM or PM Concentree. Its citrus component is tangy and reminds me of vintage Dior Eau Fraiche. Where I believe time has been very kind with this vintage bottle of mine, I do understand the citrus notes would degrade a bit - which might explain them not being quite as zesty as a new bottle of Pour Monsieur.

    Oakmoss is a huge player in For Men, as it is truly an archetypal chypre. The longevity is at least twice that of Pour Monsieur and I get hints of warm spice and perhaps even a slight tonka/musk accord, though it's not listed in any scent pyramid. It wears closer to the skin and is so much more mellow, less brash and has a very comfortable sillage.

    I don't mean to bash its predecessor and flanker, but For Men is a completely different experience. Chanel For Men was advertised as "The Mark of a Man" and available in 4 and 8 oz splashes.

    Just for fun, compliments of an eBay seller listing this ad from a magazine:


  17. #17

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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Absolutely great reading... can I hire you to investigate the reformulations of Cristalle EdP? Lol.

    I also find no relationship between TFM and PM-Concentree, btw.

    I love TFM dearly and the current formula is good to me nose. I hope my bottle (purchased last year) doesn't contain restricted ingredients because if the formula changes in the future I will have no choice but buy every vintage bottle I can find.

  18. #18
    Merlino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyDG View Post
    Chanel Pour Monsieur - Still available here in Canada. I was fortunate enough to have inherited a bottle of Chanel For Men also known as A Gentleman's Cologne (UK) which Pour Monsieur is based on.
    Thanks for another informative post! You say that Pour Monsieur was based on For Men, but I always thought that the same 1955 juice was called Pour Monsieur in France, For Men in The States and A Gentleman's Cologne in the UK? What say you?
    Looking to swap/buy/receive for free () the following samples/decants:
    Indult Tihota & RÍve en Cuir
    Chant d'Aromes extrait
    Vetiver pour Elle (5ml decant)


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    ---

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    http://polderposh.blogspot.com/

  19. #19

    AnthonyDG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Indeed - my apologies for this error/omission. When the first reformulation occurred is when, I believe, Chanel discontinued "For Men" and "A Gentleman's Cologne", under the tutelage of Jacques Polge, and "Pour Monsieur" became the universal title.

    Just as an aside, I noticed MikePerez is (or was?) selling "A Gentleman's Cologne" aftershave.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlino View Post
    Thanks for another informative post! You say that Pour Monsieur was based on For Men, but I always thought that the same 1955 juice was called Pour Monsieur in France, For Men in The States and A Gentleman's Cologne in the UK? What say you?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Is this Jacques Polge version of Chanel Pour Monsieur?
    And what year please?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=320414127153
    Last edited by djbozz; 13th October 2009 at 07:41 AM.

  21. #21

    AnthonyDG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    I can't seem to bring up the picture/link that you posted below.

    Quote Originally Posted by djbozz View Post
    Is this Jacques Polge version of Chanel Pour Monsieur?
    And what year please?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=320414127153

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    What about Platinum Egoiste? I was told by an SA that was actually a better version. (I don't even know if it's still made) Does anyone know about that one?

  23. #23

    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyDG View Post
    I can't seem to bring up the picture/link that you posted below.
    This one works, I just want to know if this is Jacques version of CPM
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Pour-Monsieur-Ch...item4a9a2b9431

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Completely different fragrance from Egoiste, and in my opinion definitely not better.



    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    What about Platinum Egoiste? I was told by an SA that was actually a better version. (I don't even know if it's still made) Does anyone know about that one?

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyDG View Post
    The TfM splash would definitely be vintage - I'm not sure I could give an exact year, though I did have someone at Tiffany go through the list of all of the TfM products over the years.

    Is there any way you could post a photo of it?
    I decanted most of the bottle but here it is!

    "I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."

    Egon Schiele - Self-Potrait


    My classics: Dior Homme EdT, YSL Rive Gauche PH, Helmut Lang Cuiron, L'Occitane Neroli (vintage), Davidoff Zino, L'Occitane Eau des Baux

    http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/2976

  26. #26

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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Sorry for the late response - that's a splash bottle? It looks identical to the spray...

    Quote Originally Posted by manicboy View Post
    I decanted most of the bottle but here it is!

  27. #27
    AromiErotici
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Nice post bro. Reminds me of why I prefer the original formulations.

    I thoroughly enjoy both Vintage Antaeus and the not so well known Antaeus Sport. The beeswax vibe in both is awesome.

    Egoiste is one I have previously owned and liked very much, but there's no doubt that the Egoiste Concentree is the better choice all day long.
    Last edited by AromiErotici; 17th October 2009 at 02:25 PM.

  28. #28

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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Thanks Aromi I definitely agree - Egoiste Cologne Concentree is quite wonderful. I did 5 full sprays and the sillage and longevity were both breathtaking. I'm wondering when it was released and when it was discontinued?

    As far as Antaeus - I'm looking forward to trying Sport Cologne... the notion that it's even richer than vintage Antaeus has me quite excited indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by AromiErotici View Post
    Nice post bro. Reminds me of why I prefer the original formulations.

    I thoroughly enjoy both Vintage Antaeus and the not so well know Antaeus Sport. The beeswax vibe in both is awesome.

    Egoiste is one I have previously owned and liked very much, but there's no doubt that the Egoiste Concentree is the better choice all day long.

  29. #29
    AromiErotici
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyDG View Post
    Thanks Aromi I definitely agree - Egoiste Cologne Concentree is quite wonderful. I did 5 full sprays and the sillage and longevity were both breathtaking. I'm wondering when it was released and when it was discontinued?

    As far as Antaeus - I'm looking forward to trying Sport Cologne... the notion that it's even richer than vintage Antaeus has me quite excited indeed.
    I think you'll like the Antaeus Sport.I like it as much as the original, but that's me. I usually don't prefer a "sport" version of any fragrance, but this one is an exception.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    I finally got around to reading this thread - thanks for the detailed observations AnthonyDG.

    Your comments about vintage Antaeus intrigue me, as I remember not liking it when I was younger (when the juice was vintage) and I'm wondering if my tastes have evolved and now I might like it. Aromi sent me some Antaeus Sport, that I haven't really given a proper wearing to, so maybe I'll focus on that one first.

    I love Egoiste, and all of this talk the Egoiste Cologne Concentree has got me excited. One question: I have to be careful not to over apply my Egoiste, if I do the juice smells horribly cloying. Is the ECC the same way?
    "One day I will find the right words, and they will be simple"

    -- Jack Kerouac

  31. #31

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    Default Re: Vintage vs. Current - Jacques Polge

    Thanks Mike!

    I found that Egoiste Cologne Concentree wasn't nearly as potent as, say, vintage Antaeus (my Antaeus Sport Cologne is on its way) - where one, maybe two sprays is ample and plenty.

    I can use 4-5 sprays of Egoiste CC without feeling overwhelmed by its sillage or getting a cloying effect. As it develops on my skin it goes from the tangy citrus/rose to an incredibly warm and hearty dry-down. I think the sandalwood is alive and well in this composition, as well.

    As somebody recently said of Egoiste.. it does feel sometimes like it is wearing you. It stays with you, and, must be immune to anosmia.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    I finally got around to reading this thread - thanks for the detailed observations AnthonyDG.

    Your comments about vintage Antaeus intrigue me, as I remember not liking it when I was younger (when the juice was vintage) and I'm wondering if my tastes have evolved and now I might like it. Aromi sent me some Antaeus Sport, that I haven't really given a proper wearing to, so maybe I'll focus on that one first.

    I love Egoiste, and all of this talk the Egoiste Cologne Concentree has got me excited. One question: I have to be careful not to over apply my Egoiste, if I do the juice smells horribly cloying. Is the ECC the same way?

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