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  1. #1

    Default Looking for a masculine chypre?

    I have been reading that Chanel Pour Monsieur (not Concentre) is one of the finest masculine chypre fragrances in production. However, I simply cannot find it in the United States; apparently Chanel is simply not allowing it to be imported here. Since it is not available to me, I do not want to go to the trouble of finding a sample, even if possible, and being disappointed that I cannot get a full bottle.

    For those of you fortunate enough to now have or have had Chanel Pour Monsieur, are there other masculine chypre fragrances which you can recommend that are currently in production and available in the States? Thanks for the help as always.

  2. #2
    bokaba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    I got a bottle from International Perfume on eBay (they're an actual wholesaler in the Los Angeles Perfume District). You can get a 3.4 oz tester for around $70 and a retail bottle for around $80. Sounds steep, but CpM is hard to find and likely one of the finest fragrances you will ever smell.

  3. #3
    shamu1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Chanel Pour Monsieur, not the Concentree, is still very readily available online. As of today, I know you can get it from perfumeLa.com, ultrafragrances.com and beautyencounter.com, just to name a few. I bought a 3.4 oz. bottle of the original a few months ago from ultrafragrances.com, and it looks like it's still in stock. You don't need to worry about being disappointed in not being able to find a bottle to buy online.

    I agree that it seems impossible to find in stores in the US anymore.

    To answer your question, another great masculine chypre and easily available is Monsieur de Givenchy. It's truly a timeless classic, very discreet, and actually a bit similar to Chanel PM, with more citrus notes. It's great stuff

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    With a little online research, one should be able to find a bottle of Chanel Pour Monsieur if you want it - that is, if you sample it and like it. I wouldn't be afraid of sampling it. It's a fantastic masculine chypre - one of the classics. If you are lucky enough to score a vintage bottle, it's even more oakmoss prominent.

    Other masculine chypres that are easy to source here in the US, that I recommend are:

    Tiffany for Men by Tiffany
    Numero Uno by Carthusia
    Derby by Guerlain
    New York by Parfums de Nicolai

    Plus you might want to think about stepping out of the box, auee, and sampling/wearing some feminine chypres. Many of them are easy for a man to wear. Follow your nose.

    I'm sure you'll receive a bunch of recommendations on this thread - masculine chypres are popular with the Basenotes contingent. Remember: sample, sample, sample! Just because I like it, doesn't mean you will also.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by mikeperez23; 18th October 2009 at 02:27 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    You must be able to get it at a Chanel boutique. There seems to be one in every major city. I've certainly seen it at airport Duty Free shops.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Acqua di Parma's Colonia is closer to a cologne, less oakmoss, but has a very similar rose note from what I remember of Chanel. There are a gazillion male chypres, of course. Recent faves of mine include Hermes Equipage and Monsieur de Givenchy.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    And let us not forget Aramis and Tuscany.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    You must be able to get it at a Chanel boutique. There seems to be one in every major city. I've certainly seen it at airport Duty Free shops.
    The original PM is not an US Chanel boutiques... I don't know about duty frees. As said above, many online retailers still have it and not even very expensively (fragranceexpress had cheap testers not long ago).

    I echo mikeperez' suggestions for checking out feminine chypres, many of which are very unisex. Estee Lauder Aliage & Azuree, Guerlain Mitsouko, Givenchy III, and Clinique Aromatics Elixir would all be fine on a guy.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    And let us not forget Aramis and Tuscany.
    I believe Tuscany is a fougere.

    I second Tiffany for Men; it has a passing resemblance to Chanel PM and is arguably easier to obtain. I personally prefer Chanel by a narrow margin. Both were created by Jacques Polge.
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts. Daniel Moynihan

  10. #10
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snafoo View Post
    I believe Tuscany is a fougere.

    I second Tiffany for Men; it has a passing resemblance to Chanel PM and is arguably easier to obtain. I personally prefer Chanel by a narrow margin. Both were created by Jacques Polge.
    Snafoo,

    Good to see you around.

    Pour Monsieur was actually made by Henri Robert in 1955. He also made Chanel No. 19 and Cristalle.

    Here's a random list of chypres. Some are more chypre than others but classifying them is imperfect at best. Some may be more fougere, but have enough chypre feel to be considered chypre - Jules and Or Black for example. It's somewhat ineffable but for me chypres have a web-like feel, the juxtaposition between bergamot-oakmoss-labdanum (citrus resinous-bitter resinous-sweet resinous). They almost always have an intelligent feel about them as well.

    The classifications for chypres go way beyond what I'm giving here. There are green, citrus, floral, leather, fruity chypres, etc.

    Pure Chypres:

    Chypre de Coty
    Mitsouko
    Givenchy lll (green)
    Patou pour Homme (I consider it a spicy chypre)
    No. 19 (vintage, green, new stuff is more of a floral than a chypre)
    Pour Monsieur (new stuff is more of a citrus chypre)
    Futur (green)
    Knowing
    Y (green)
    Profumo (Acqua di Parma)
    Jubilation 25
    Colony
    Rose de Nuit
    Bois d'Orage
    Femme
    Sous le Vent (green)
    Coriolan
    Balmain de Balmain (green)
    Eau Fraiche (Dior)
    Halston Z-14

    Citrus Chypres:

    Eau de Rochas
    Eau de Patou
    Eau de Rochas pour Homme - not the reformulated version called Eau de Rochas Homme
    Eau Sauvage
    Cristalle
    Diorella
    Monsieur de Givenchy

    Dry Woods/Leather Chypres
    :

    Knize Ten
    Cuir de Russie (Chanel)
    Bandit
    Aromatics Elixir
    Aramis 900
    Timbuktu
    Or Black
    Yatagan
    La Nuit (Paco Rabanne)
    Leather Oud
    Arsene Lupin Dandy
    Parfum de Peau
    Jolie Madame
    Bel Ami
    Aramis
    Van Cleef & Arpels pour Homme
    Miss Balmain
    Antaeus
    M
    Parfum d'Habit
    Eau d'Hermes
    Dia for Men

    __________


    Enlevement au Serail (floral)
    Private Collection (floral, green)
    Tiffany for Men (oriental)
    Last edited by pluran; 14th January 2012 at 09:15 AM. Reason: blackout

  11. #11

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    I second ADP, Eau Sauvage and Loewe PH, among others

    But I would also love to suggest Armani Eau pour Homme
    Currently wearing: Eau des Baux by L'Occitane

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    To Pluran's Dry Chypre category, I would add Estee Lauder Azuree and Clinique Aromatics Elixir.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    I still have trouble distinguishing between cyphres and fougeres. To me, non-dry, sweeter cyphre = fougere. And dry fougere = cyphre. Can someone please help me?

    Also, I saw Chanel PM the other week at an Ulta near me.



    I like Equipage (a very soft cyphre - maybe a fougere? Yes? No?), Aramis, Polo (sometimes), and Givenchy Gentleman (oriental cyphre? Hmmm ) and YSL PM.
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  14. #14

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post
    I still have trouble distinguishing between cyphres and fougeres. To me, non-dry, sweeter cyphre = fougere. And dry fougere = cyphre. Can someone please help me?

    Also, I saw Chanel PM the other week at an Ulta near me.



    I like Equipage (a very soft cyphre - maybe a fougere? Yes? No?), Aramis, Polo (sometimes), and Givenchy Gentleman (oriental cyphre? Hmmm ) and YSL PM.
    A chypre MUST contain bergamot and oakmoss, and it will usually contain labdanum and patchouli. Without bergamot and oakmoss it is not a chypre. To identify the chypre accord compare samples of vintage Givenchy III with Pour Monsieur... they both contain distinct 'chypre accords' not masked by other notes. Eventually you'll be able to recognize the chypre structure when it's hidden. (i.e. the citrus in Diorella), but it can get tricky with some of the woody and leather chypres. For example I don't think of Polo as a chypre though it technically is. Equipage contains no bergamot and is therefor not a chypre.

    A fougere contains lavender and coumarin. Quite honestly I'm not a fougere fan so I can't tell you which ones are best for learning to identify the accord.

  15. #15
    Echo777's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Really? No Chanel Pour Monsieur at the boutiques? I have never NOT seen PM at the boutiques, whether in the US or abroad. I live in Topeka, KS and just got a bottle at Macy's and I have seen it at Dillard's as well. The only ones not easily found in my town are Antaeus and Egoiste, both of which are abundant online.
    "Flagrantly fragrant and they can't escape me. My perfume pursued them everywhere that they went.
    You don't want a loan, leave my cologne alone. It's a little too strong for you to be putting on".
    - Lupe Fiasco

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo777 View Post
    Really? No Chanel Pour Monsieur at the boutiques? I have never NOT seen PM at the boutiques, whether in the US or abroad. I live in Topeka, KS and just got a bottle at Macy's and I have seen it at Dillard's as well. The only ones not easily found in my town are Antaeus and Egoiste, both of which are abundant online.
    The one you see everywhere Echo777 is Chanel Pour Monsieur Concentree. NOT Chanel Pour Monsieur. These are totally different scents. I do not like the Concentree at all. The original is much better IMO.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by heynow View Post
    A chypre MUST contain bergamot and oakmoss, and it will usually contain labdanum and patchouli. Without bergamot and oakmoss it is not a chypre. To identify the chypre accord compare samples of vintage Givenchy III with Pour Monsieur... they both contain distinct 'chypre accords' not masked by other notes. Eventually you'll be able to recognize the chypre structure when it's hidden. (i.e. the citrus in Diorella), but it can get tricky with some of the woody and leather chypres. For example I don't think of Polo as a chypre though it technically is. Equipage contains no bergamot and is therefor not a chypre.

    A fougere contains lavender and coumarin. Quite honestly I'm not a fougere fan so I can't tell you which ones are best for learning to identify the accord.
    I don't think the chypre rules are so hard and fast anymore, modern chypres are often made without oakmoss. Tree moss is often used, and the new Jasmine White Moss actually has a synthetic moss-like chemical in it. What a world! :bounce:

  18. #18

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeperez23 View Post
    The one you see everywhere Echo777 is Chanel Pour Monsieur Concentree. NOT Chanel Pour Monsieur. These are totally different scents. I do not like the Concentree at all. The original is much better IMO.
    I think you're right, Mike. The most recent bottle design of Concentree is exactly the same as the regular Pour Monsieur and relegates the word concentree to the very bottom, front edge of the bottle. They've also changed the color of the Concentree from green to yellow, like the regular Pour Monsieur. Very confusing - it must be intentional.

  19. #19
    AromiErotici
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Moods Uomo by Krizia is a decent and economical woody chypre.
    Yatagan is an available and economical leather chypre. So are De La Renta pour Lui original, Havana, Antaeus, Montana Red and Chevignon to name a few.
    Last edited by AromiErotici; 18th October 2009 at 11:08 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    The concentree has always been in a tall rectangle bottle (2.5oz). The original comes in a tall square (more typical Chanel) bottle.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    I don't think the chypre rules are so hard and fast anymore, modern chypres are often made without oakmoss. Tree moss is often used, and the new Jasmine White Moss actually has a synthetic moss-like chemical in it. What a world! :bounce:
    There was an excellent discussion of Jasmine White Moss on the feminine board and to what extent it smells like a chypre. I happen to really, really like JWM (enough to buy) and I think it smells like a chypre...but that's just it. It 'smells like' a chypre but it is NOT a chypre. In this new era without oakmoss there will have to evolve some category of 'modern chypre', but the definition of what a chypre is simply is not an interperative issue... by definition it contains bergamot and (real) oakmoss. One can't simply assign a new definition at will. Compare vintage to reissued Givenchy III and you'll see what I mean. 31 Rue Cambon is close as well, but it's not a chypre. The meaning of what a chypre is has been muddied, in part by the houses. Guerlain calls Idylle a 'floral chypre' when it's nothing of the sort. It's almost like chypre has come to mean anything light and citrus/woody, but as a purist and someone with an historical appreciation for perfumery I reject the nonsense marketing. A thing is what it is and isn't what it isn't, and the definition of chypre is a specific accord.

    Of course this doesn't mean we can't like the 'modern chypres' or shouldn't buy them, but especially on a thread like this where someone is asking for help identifying the genre it's best to be straightforward and give the correct definition, not the 'modern, fuzzy, vague' definition.

  22. #22
    Asha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    heynow--it may actually be a true chypre, depending what the "white moss mist" ingredient is. I read elsewhere that there is a chemically processed natural oakmoss which has the irritating parts removed. It is still natural oakmoss, but just not extracted in the same way.

    Also, I read somewhere that oakmoss used to be an ingredient of traditional fougere, so the "trio" was lavender, oakmoss, tonka.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by heynow View Post
    It 'smells like' a chypre but it is NOT a chypre.
    Before Coty's Chypre there wasn't any such thing as a "chypre". The word Chypre is just a vague description of something that resembles Coty's original creation. That's why fragrances can be both chypres and fougeres. A woody floral can also be an oriental. It's kind of loose, it's not a noose. Someone once said, "The map is not the territory and the word is not the "thing". I will add this: a Chypre is not a thing, it's just a territory.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 19th October 2009 at 03:02 AM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    Before Coty's Chypre there wasn't any such thing as a "chypre". The word Chypre is just a vague description of something that resembles Coty's original creation. That's why fragrances can be both chypres and fougeres. A woody floral can also be an oriental. It's kind of loose, it's not a noose. Someone once said, "The map is not the territory and the word is not the "thing". I will add this: a Chypre is not a thing, it's just a territory.
    You're right it is not a 'thing' - that was an anology. However a fragrance is not a chypre because it resembles 'Chypre de Coty' (which 99% of people today haven't smelled). Most chypres smell nothing at all like Chypre de Coty, and if that were the criterea then Derby wouldn't be chypre (it is), Pour Monieur wouldn't be a chypre (it is), and Givenchy III wouldn't be chypre (it is) because none of them resemble Chypre de Coty. I own Chypre de Coty and maybe 1 in 10 chypres smell anything like it.

    'Chypre' is a specific term that refers to a specific structure used in perfumery named after Chypre de Coty. Coty was the first (known) to use the bergamot/oakmoss/labdanum accord which essentially creates a new 'note' (like yellow and blue make green). The accord lasts a long time and creates a skeleton structure for fragrances. This structure is flexible and can hold florals, citrus, woods, etc - but at its core is bergamot/labdanum/oakmoss. Absent the ingredents that create the 'chypre accord' a fragrance is not a chypre. People don't understand this, in part because houses misuse the term, but all the misuse and lack of understanding does not change that 'chypre' simply is not an amorphous term, no matter who thinks it is. A fragrance can only be a chypre and fougere if it contains bergamot, oakmoss, lavender and coumarin...not because it 'smells like' something else.

    Turin describes this in his book and I've read it elsewhere (I'll find the sources). If you're aware of an actual alternate definition of 'chypre' I'd be curious to know what the definition is and its source, because as it stands these days its becoming an amorphous, meaningless term. Ruggles you obviously have extensive fragrance experience so it doesn't matter to you, but for those learning it's best to give the correct and true definitions and meanings. Some reviewer called Guerlain Philtre d'Amour a 'floral chypre'. This is absurd because it's neither floral nor chypre (it's a citrus/floral). However people read this wrong info and think something's a chypre that isn't, and it perpetuates the lack of understanding of the art form.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk or perpetuate an argument... it's just that 'chypre' does have a very specific definition, that's all.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    OK, there were some perfumes named Chypre before Coty.
    One could find Chypre de Paris by Guerlain in Basenotes list - it was made in 1909. I`m not sure if bergamot-labdanum-oakmoss structure was prominent (I believe that jasmine+rose combo should be in it) - but I`m pretty sure that Chypre as theme of island and ancient gods was popular amongst perfumers in the beginning of XX century.
    Coty just make it better than others, that`s it.

    As for Philtre d`Amour - it`s a true chypre. By smell, by structure, by definition, by anything.
    Vetiver The Great!!!

  26. #26

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by heynow View Post
    You're right it is not a 'thing' - that was an anology. However a fragrance is not a chypre because it resembles 'Chypre de Coty' (which 99% of people today haven't smelled). Most chypres smell nothing at all like Chypre de Coty, and if that were the criterea then Derby wouldn't be chypre (it is), Pour Monieur wouldn't be a chypre (it is), and Givenchy III wouldn't be chypre (it is) because none of them resemble Chypre de Coty. I own Chypre de Coty and maybe 1 in 10 chypres smell anything like it.

    'Chypre' is a specific term that refers to a specific structure used in perfumery named after Chypre de Coty. Coty was the first (known) to use the bergamot/oakmoss/labdanum accord which essentially creates a new 'note' (like yellow and blue make green). The accord lasts a long time and creates a skeleton structure for fragrances. This structure is flexible and can hold florals, citrus, woods, etc - but at its core is bergamot/labdanum/oakmoss. Absent the ingredents that create the 'chypre accord' a fragrance is not a chypre. People don't understand this, in part because houses misuse the term, but all the misuse and lack of understanding does not change that 'chypre' simply is not an amorphous term, no matter who thinks it is. A fragrance can only be a chypre and fougere if it contains bergamot, oakmoss, lavender and coumarin...not because it 'smells like' something else.

    Turin describes this in his book and I've read it elsewhere (I'll find the sources). If you're aware of an actual alternate definition of 'chypre' I'd be curious to know what the definition is and its source, because as it stands these days its becoming an amorphous, meaningless term. Ruggles you obviously have extensive fragrance experience so it doesn't matter to you, but for those learning it's best to give the correct and true definitions and meanings. Some reviewer called Guerlain Philtre d'Amour a 'floral chypre'. This is absurd because it's neither floral nor chypre (it's a citrus/floral). However people read this wrong info and think something's a chypre that isn't, and it perpetuates the lack of understanding of the art form.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk or perpetuate an argument... it's just that 'chypre' does have a very specific definition, that's all.
    This is very helpful for someone learning about fragrances. If I am reading the definition correctly, I am looking for variations of fragrances all of which have in common the use of bergamot/labdanum/oakmoss. I will search the data base with these notes and see what turns up.

    I really think some are confusing the Concentree with the non concentre. The bottles and color of the scent are much different and I know for a fact that Chanel does not import it into the States.

    I am going to get a sample and proceed from there. I also intend to sample many of the fragrances recommended here which have the essential chypre structure.

    I am very grateful to all members with much more extensive knowledge and experience than me who have responded in this thread. You guys are great.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?


    I happen to agree with heynow's comments to the letter, and like Pluran's comments, they are thoughtfully considered and well-informed.

    Synthetic oakmoss, or more correctly synthetically derived aromatic constituents of oakmoss have been in use for decades as have oakmoss co-distillates, otherwise known as oakmoss bases. Treemoss is not simply a recent addition due to IFRA restrictions. It can be found in many oakmoss bases in varying degrees before the IFRA restrictions. Nevertheless, the one indispensable aspect of all these ways of inflecting the oakmoss note in a fragrance is that the inimitable broadly aromatic, character determining, and fixative qualities of the natural product or synthetically derived/enhanced equivalent remain intact. This is why you can't have a true chypre without oakmoss nor even a true fougère. Oakmoss as a fixative within a particular organizational structure such as a chypre allows for much variation--that's part of its enduring appeal--but it is the oakmoss that predominates throughout that structure and provides the basic character and framework of that structure in concert with the other notes. In terms of the feel of chypres, pluran's web metaphor works perfectly.

    To explain: the scent profile of oakmoss is very complex, and much like ambergris, it can present a wide range of distinctive notes: animalic, leathery, forest floor, lichenous like notes, a slight marine type salinity, but these notes and the way they present themselves has a lot to do with how oakmoss is inflected as an ingredient and with the concentration of oakmoss in a fragrance and its synergy with other elements. For example, while oakmoss does not have a heavy animalic note per se, in absolute form, it has quite a complex scent profile, part of which is a persistent leather-like undertone. Oakmoss can and frequently does deepen and complicate the animalic component of fragrances it is added to by the persistence of this leather-like undertone from the top notes through to the drydown, and, of course, how prominent such an undertone is depends on how much the use of oakmoss absolute is diluted within any particular fragrance and its synergy with other animalic or leathery type notes. This is also were oakmoss bases come in in terms of inflecting particular aspects of the broad oakmoss profile. Finally, oakmoss has unique fixative qualities in that its presence tends to extend throughout the entire drydown with its own odor profile adding to the inimitable feel and distinctive nature to the fragrance it occurs in, hence, the category of chypres. However, while it gives fragrances a distinctive enduring character, in many ways, though, oakmoss is the universal fixative par excellence in that while it asserts its distinctive character throughout the drydown of the fragrances it is present in, unlike other fixatives, and to a large extent, it leaves the scent profile of the other constituents in the fragrance relatively unmodified allowing them to shine through a persist longer and more intensely even as it binds with them. In many ways, its own scent profile remains a kind of background note. The only other fixative that has this characteristic is civet.

    The problem I have with "modern chypres" and especially with the concept of modern chypres sans oakmoss is that it most of the time the term functions to cover up a paucity of creativity. It's a way of gaining cache for mostly and essentially bankrupt, uninspired creations. I am classicist because I value classic fragrances and the perfumery tradition in which the chypre as a category was developed and in which it involved. Traditions and definitions matter, especially when they are being replaced with shoddy fragrances and marketing drivel.

    Of course you can have a chypre without oakmoss, but it would be the same as having French onion soup without onions.

    scentemental

    Last edited by scentemental; 19th October 2009 at 12:36 PM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Thank you scentemental for the far more specific and enlightening detail then I could have ever provided. I've already cut/paste your post into my 'perfumery education' files.

    As for Philtre d'Amour, I've never smelled oakmoss and it.'s not listed, but if it's there and I'm wrong I'm certainlu happy to admit my error. Generally I'm good at smelling the chypre accord, even when hidden, and I don't smell it in PdA, but I've certainly been wrong before.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    As a fan of Philtre d'Amour I always wondered whether it was a chypre or not myself. Clearly, it doesn't jump out at me, like Chypre by Coty does but I've been researching it this morning online and a few places list in the notes oakmoss.

    Maybe someone can contact Guerlain and get an official list of notes?

  30. #30

    Default Re: Looking for a masculine chypre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snafoo View Post
    I believe Tuscany is a fougere.
    Well, I guess we can forget Tuscany then.

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    By zen in forum Just Starting Out
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    Last Post: 15th September 2006, 08:18 PM

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Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000