Mitsouko - less moss, less spice, no farnesol
A follow up to the IFRA restrictions thread ,I started this so everyone who has noticed a change in ingredients in their perfume can make a note here. We need everything from your Chanels, Opium, Carons, Guerlains, Patricia de Nicolai...anything and everything you have noticed recently ( not reformulations from ...say ,the 1950s . ) . We can then compile a list of perfumes suspected of reformulation in accordance to the new IFRA guidelines, even if it has not been offically announced as such .
If you could make a note of which ingredients have changed too and the change in the scent compared to the older version of the perfume.
I cannot say for sure,right now.... what will become of this list but we will, at the very least, have a permanent record of the reformulated perfumes.
Last edited by Mimi Gardenia; 10th November 2009 at 10:32 AM.
Mitsouko - less moss, less spice, no farnesol
Will do, Mysticknot, and thanks!
-No. 5 parfum (change on ingredient list, although I can't really smell much difference)
Assumptions - jasmine & ylang reduced, as well as oakmoss, hydroxycitronellal, etc.
Last edited by Dane; 10th November 2009 at 01:58 PM.
Feminite du Bois- thinner, less cedar, perhaps to reduce the thujones??
Last edited by Mimi Gardenia; 10th November 2009 at 04:05 PM.
In this thread http://community.basenotes.net/showthread.php?t=239233 Sofresh types out the ingredient/allergen list on the back of two Chanel No. 5 bottles and that allowed us to (with room for doubt, of course) confirm that the parfum version has been reformulated.
So if you have something you love and want to know if its been reformulated, post the ingredients/allergen list from the back of the box along with any reference number and information about when/where you bought it. By comparing notes we have a better chance of finding a reformulation. Having a rich patron pay for gas chromatograph analysis would be perfect but I don't think we have any volunteers just yet
Here are mine (my collection is very limited, I just started 6 months ago and most of it is from the Perfumed Court without the allergen list):
Bandit: reference #77011, sample vial sent from the distributors New York office, recieved in July, and the ingredients are:
-Alcohol Denat, Water (Aqua), Fragrance (Parfum), Alpha Isomethyl, Amyl Cinnamal, Benzyl Alcohol, Benzyl Benzoate, Benzyl Salicylate, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Citral, Citronellol, Eugenol, Evernia Furfuracea (Tree Moss) Extract, Farnesol, Geraniol,
Hexyl Cinnamal, Hydrocitronellal, Hydroxyisohexyl, 3-Cyclohexene Carboxaldehyde, Isoeugenol, Limonene, Linalool, BHT, Butyl Methoydibenzoylmethane, Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, Ethylhexyl Salicylate
Azzaro Pour Homme: ref. # 980802, bought from TJ Maxx in May,
-alcohol, Parfum/fragrance, limonene, Linalool, hydroxyisohexyl 3-Cyclohexene Carboxaldehyde, Hexyl Cinnamal, Citronellol, Geraniol, Benzyl Alcohol, Coumarin, Citral, Evernia Prunastri (Oakmoss) Extract, Eugenol, Alpha Isomethyl Ionine, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Cinnamal, Benzyl Salicylate, Benzyl Benzoate, Hydroxycitronellal, Evernia Furfuracea (Tree Moss) Extract, Farnesol, Anise Alcohol
The Bandit is miles away from the other sample I have, almost unrecognizable. I believe the Azzaro is pre-IFRA standard formula but I did see a bottle with new packaging recently, hinting at a reformulation.
If anyone has any info to compare, please list it its a pain to do but stopping people from spending money on marred classics is a great service to everyone.
Last edited by Zizanioides; 10th November 2009 at 10:16 PM.
My old sample of La Haie Fleurie and my new sample are very different. (Stock up on jasmine as though your life depends on it!) The "bigger bottle" seems to be an indication. First, the fragrance is on "backorder", and then suddenly, there are no more smaller bottles. This was the case with Odalisque by Parfums de Nicolai, too. I am so sorry that I do not have the box with the new ingredients for you to compare. I am so disappointed with the new. It is flat and quite unremarkable and a very expensive mistake. Also, another indication is what I call "the big dump" to stores like Costco and TJ Maxx. Today I purchased a Badgley Mischka set at TJ Maxx for under $40...1/2 ou pure parfum, 1.7 ou eau de parfum and a large lotion. I remember that set going for almost $300 at Saks not long ago. It contains the dreaded oakmoss(evernia prunastri) and coumarin, so even though it is made in the US, I suspect that it will be reformulated or discontinued. So stock up, kiddies, if it isn't too late to find your favorites! I purchased Joy (in every concentration) for the first time. Habanita & Baghari contain oakmoss & coumarin. I love them along with the classics Mitsouko, Chanel No 5, Shalimar & Diorella. I am angry that Dior has changed Diorella, but at least they changed the bottle & packaging, too, so that you know you are in for a change. Please, folks, let's keep this thread going!
This is such a nice, precise thread. I suppose my disgruntled "New Tabac Blond Sucks!" isn't really helpful so much as a Captain Obvious non sequitur, LOL.
Does jasmine tend to degrade in vintage formulations? I have a sample of current No 5 EdT and a full bottle of vintage EdT, and I swear the modern sample is WAY more floral.....is this the sign of a reformulation or is it just that my vintage bottle has lost some of the oomph from its topnotes?
I don't really get many florals from No. 5 EDT either...I'm sure they're there, but not in the same way as some scents. It's more of a big abstract thing than something I could pick apart into separate notes.
www.cropwatch.org is a good read re. reformulations and IFRA .
We can add all of the Caron scents to this list. They have been heading down this road for a little while now.
Quand on boit l'eau, il faut penser à sa source
I am trying to keep a complete record of all the perfumes you are listing ,on my PC . Thanks guys - could you also add the perfume house that makes the scent too , if the scent is more obscure.
( I am also keeping notes in general ....... )
Thanks ... Mysticknot is a little thick at times !
Last edited by Mimi Gardenia; 11th November 2009 at 06:14 AM.
I will not personally verify this, as I'd require further side-by-side testing/comparison-
Some people have mentioned Domenico Caraceni 1913 as having been reformulated, at the same time as the bottle change, about a year ago.
I'm not entirely sure. I just wanted to get it on the list.
Lately I've been wearing:
Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah
No one quote me on this, because I could be wrong...but...
Chanel Pour Monsieur smells slightly different to me now. I tried a brand new tester that a store just took out of the box and the drydown lacks the spicy-moss of the bottle I have at home (from maybe 3 or 4 years ago). The topnotes also seem fruitier somehow.
I also noticed that the ingredient list on the back of the box is a sticker over the previous ingredient list. That could mean anything, and I could just be having a bad sniffer day.
ps - I'm going to re-try my bottle tonight and see if I'm just dreaming...will edit this post if I am.
Last edited by Dane; 11th November 2009 at 06:28 PM.
Would the Parfums D'Orsay relaunches in the 1990s (pardon the pun) count?
"There is no accessory greater, nor more intimate, than scent." --Tim Gunn
the most recent incarnation of Guerlain Heritage no longer contains oakmoss. Scentwise it's slightly less warm than the 3rd incarnation. How many times do they have to reformulate a single frag?
Last edited by joey86; 11th November 2009 at 09:38 PM.
I have a brand new box of L'Heure Bleue EdP that I can transcribe, but none of the older versions. This is the gold box with a textured vertical stripe, not the previous box with the black box around the text....
This is the one I have, except I have the Eau de Parfum and this box is for the EdT:
Ingredients: Alcohol, Parfum (Fragrance), Aqua (Water), Linalool, limonene, coumarin, benzyl benzoate, evernia furfuracea (Treemoss) Extract, Benzyl Cinnamate, Cintronellol, Eugenol, Bht, Geraniol, Hydroxycitronellal, isoeugenol, benzyl alcohol, citral, cinnnamal, cinnamyl Alcohol, Benzyl Salicylate
Last edited by YouCanCallMeMo; 11th November 2009 at 10:16 PM.
This means that we have the following discrepancies in the list of ingredients:
Present in old, missing in new: Alpha-isomethyl ionone, Farnesol
Present in new, missing in old: evernia furfuracea (Treemoss) Extract, Bht
Funny thing about the moss? Maybe it wasn't required to declare earlier, or it was introduced to replace the missing farnesol? I'm just speculating, but it seems like farnesol has a flowery/fresh and green smell, acts as a fixative and is considered extremely dangerous…
Yes, of course they are. I was still surprised to see moss as a new ingredient, since treemoss also seems to be considered risky.
This list is as follows ( * stand for fragrances reformulated but not necessarily because of the IFRA guidelines 2010 )
Azzaro Pour Homme
A La Nuit Serge Lutens
Bandit Robert Piguet
Bergamote The Different Company
Chergui Serge Lutens
Dolce Vita Dior *
Feminite du Bois Shiseido /SL
First Van Cleef and Arpels
Hypnotic Poison Dior *
Joy Jean Patou
Juste un Reve Patricia de Nicolai
L'Heure Bleu Guerlain
La Chasse Aux Papillons L'Artisan Parfumeur * ? due to IFRA regulations ?
La Haie Fleurie L'Artisan Parfumeur
Miel de Bois Serge Lutens
Miss Dior Dior
No.1 Patricia de Nicolai
Odalisque Patricia de Nicolai
Opium Yves St Laurent ( To be confirmed )
Paloma Picasso EDP
Pour Monsieur Chanel
Pure Poison Dior *
Tabac Blond Caron
Un Bois Sepia Serge Lutens
Un Lys Serge Lutens ( still contains farnesol )
** Could you tell me how Tabac Blond has changed and any other Carons ? Mo? Brielle ?
Thanks everyone ...keep them coming..... Let me know if I missed one out !
Last edited by Mimi Gardenia; 24th November 2009 at 10:15 PM.
La Haie Fleurie is by L'Artisan Parfumeur.
I strongly suspect that La Chasse Aux Papillions, also by L'Artisan Parfumeur has also been reformulated, and wondered whether anyone had any information or insight on it.
(the reason I think so is because I have an old bottle, from c. 2001, and can smell it quite distinctly... bought a new bottle last February, and I cannot smell it -- feels as if my nose has been anesthetized ).
Many thanks TallulahRose!
I have amended the list.......
Un Lys by Serge Lutens?
Smells very different from earlier bottles. I even sent one back to them, but they replied there was nothing wrong with it. (I did get to choose another scent - very nice!) I vaguely remember reading in an interview with Serge Lutens that every perfume house is obliged by French law to reformulate every four years?!?!?!?
Of course I no longer have the old boxes so I cannot compare the ingredients, but 'old' Lys smells lighter, sweeter, more flowery, and the new one has an opressive, slightly oily, musty, industrial ring to it. Even my husband smelled the difference! By the way, the new one still has farnesol in it. Does that make it a health hazard?
Jicky - I looked at my new packaging EDP - there's coumarin, eugenol , farnesol listed as part of the ingredients but I would like to know if this is already the new formulation according to IFRA regulations or if anyone thinks Jicky will be reformulated again ?
I definitely think the new EDP packaged juice is lighter and not as long lasting ...... anyone have the same experience ? I wonder if it is just me and my skin ? 3 sprays is not enough , more like 5 - 8 sprays for me .
Last edited by Mimi Gardenia; 12th November 2009 at 12:18 PM.
Hi - I am so glad I found this board. I just had a very bad experience with Chanel No 5 perfume. Just last week I bought a new bottle, and was very disappointed when I put it on. Although it smells similar to my old bottle, the floral notes in the new bottle are very subdued - almost non-existent. Do you think I should return it? I'm thinking if no one complains they will go on selling this debased thing and calling it No 5. I wish there was a way we could bring a class action suit against perfume companies for messing with the formulas. To me, selling a changed formula under an old name w/o telling you it's different is fraud. There should be something consumers can do.
I realized I didnt give you the info you asked for -
Chanel No 5 - good bottle [prominent floral notes] - lot no.0901 - ingred: alcohol, parfum[fragrance], linalool, benzyl alcohol, benzyl benzoate, benzyl cinnamate, benzyl salicylate, cinnamyl alcohol, citral, citronellol, coumarin, eugenol, farnesol, geraniol, hydroxycitronellal, isoeugenol, linonene, alpha-isomethyleionone, evernia prunastri [oakmoss] extract.
The bad bottle - very little/no floral notes - lot no. - ingred: alcohol, parfum[fragrance], linalool, coumarin, hydroxycitronellal, geraniol, alpha isomethylionone, cironellol, benzyl benzoate, cinnamyl alcohol, eugenol, benzyl salicylate, limonene, farnesol, benzyl alcohol, evernia prunastri [oakmoss] extract, citral, benzyl cinnamate, isoeugenol, cinnamal.
The drydown on both is the same, and looking at the ingred they seem almost the same but in different order - yet I swear they smell different. Now I'm wondering if it's me?
^^ it's not just you...see this thread:
PDN's Juste un Reve. New box, new juice - big disappointment.
I hope I am adding to this section in expressing the frustration I have experienced in my search for my long lost Must De Cartier. Exactly how many times has this scent been reformulated? I don't know how to go about asking for the one I want! I purchased this fragrance twice in the 90's, both times I bought the EDT-so the difference I've experienced isn't that which sometimes happens between the EDT and parfum. I used to shop at a Perfume Warehouse that often offered new un-boxed testers so I cannot use a box description.-With my limited knowledge of professional fragrance description terms, I'm left to rely on describing the bottles. Both bottles are "Must De Cartier" paris, EDT. The first bottle was amber w/red top and gold band. The second bottle was COMPLETELY different, in looks and smell. It has the ribbed, frosted glass going down the sides w/plain gold top. I believe this one did actually come in a black/gold/silver box. It was this bottle that I loved. When I went back to replace it they had changed the fragrance AGAIN. The fragrance I am seeking is the more oriental/vanilla one. Once I experienced this version I thought of the first bottle (w/red top) as more like an "old floral" type smell.
Online sellers list their "rare, discontinued" versions with the same fragrance descriptions but show a variety of different bottles.
I wish I knew what to refer to in my attempts to locate this particular fragrance. Any help?
Last edited by robinlee; 12th November 2009 at 04:37 PM. Reason: html [color] was showing
Re: PDN's Juste un Reve - Answering Mysticknot's question. I purchased it about two years ago and loved it, but so did my mom. I gave it to her. Recently, I purchased a new one, and it no longer has that tropical note.
Last edited by Meezermom1; 12th November 2009 at 08:01 PM.
I was speaking with someone who has a much better nose than I do, and he also mentioned that Chanel Pour Monsieur has changed. I consider this confirmation, but I don't have a direct ingredient list as proof, so buyer beware I guess!
I have some decent news about the new Diorella with the oval white label. After an initial blast of lemon (not bergamot, a note that I love), "Auntie Di" is still in there. She may not be quite herself, but she IS in there. I feel the same way about Shalimar & Mitsouko. While they are not the 5 star beauties that they once were, at least they are recognizable. I hope that there are no more tamperings with them. I have old Mitsouko & Shalimar pure parfum that I cherish and use for comparison. PS The new Joy pure parfum is lemon, lemon, lemon! It appears that in the future we will all smell like lemon & leather. (Forgive me, I am still lamenting Odalisque. I sprayed some Myrrhe Ardente over it last night and revived it a bit, but it still lacked the floral top & middle notes.)
Chergui - reformulated one is watered down, with less powder/iris facets and more coumarin/hay.
I apologize if all these are common knowledge, and I have not read the appropriate threads, but these upset me (they literally smell like nothing now. ) and I haven not heard of an admission yet:
First by Van Cleef and Arpels
Last edited by vintage*red; 15th November 2009 at 03:58 PM. Reason: spelling
( Can you imagine a great perfume house like Jean Patou .....sold to a toothpaste /personal product making company like P & G ?! Horror of horrors - all mystique and ideas of luxury 'gone'... I am sure Jean Patou turned in his grave when it was sold by his sister in the early 2000s and I am sure YSL is doing multiple turns in his ,over the new ,horrid Opium bottle and the inevitable reformulation to follow ! )
Last edited by Mimi Gardenia; 15th November 2009 at 10:05 PM.
Adding Burberry Original; it's now water. and clear! No more peachy, ambery depth. So sad...
Thanks Hillaire - much appreciated.
Would Chanel Pour Monsieur need to go on the list as oak moss is listed in the ingrediants
ehm, I'm late to this thread and all, but wouldn't it be shorter to list all the scents that haven't been reformulated or watered-down?
...assuming such things exist...
tfaust... I thnk you have a good idea re. listing non reformulated scents but honestly , I think it would take too long . Besides, having a ready list of fragrances suspected of being reformulated or that we know are reformulated is like our evidence - if you know what I mean .
If we are ever asked ( or if I am ever asked ) " so what do you think has been altered and which fragrances are you talking about ?" - tada ! There's the list .
There is one list on this thread ( further on up from this post ) and I update it when some kind soul finds a reformulated perfume to add to it.
Last edited by Mimi Gardenia; 19th November 2009 at 10:08 PM.
Miss Dior. New style packaging and oakmoss is missing from the ingredients. Treemoss is listed. Compared to a 2005 bottle which contains both oakmoss and treemoss (and smells the same as my '94 bottle). Have yet to try the new formulation as I am sure it will be disappointing and am buying up anything in old packaging.
Last edited by selky; 2nd December 2009 at 12:51 PM. Reason: spelling
Une empreinte de moi dans la mémoire des autres... Guerlain
The greatest treasures are those invisible to the eye but found by the heart. - Unknown
According to my mom Paloma Picasso (edp) smells different to her; it is lighter and does not have the staying power it used to have. I remember seeing oakmoss listed on the box, so it is still in there, but probably not as much as before.