Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 30 of 30
  1. #1

    Default Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    First off, I'm surprised how much I like this scent considering that when I tried it last year I found it repulsive. But I've tried it at Barneys the past few days and really like it.

    Here's the problem: its projection is so weak on me that I can't even smell it on myself unless I put my arm right up to my nose (and I sprayed it on my neck too).

    Anyone else have this problem? I love the scent but what's the point if I can't even smell it on me?

    Or is it because it's winter: dry skin?
    Last edited by union1411; 17th December 2009 at 08:24 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    I'm convinced MKK has, what I like to call as, stealth sillage. I've not only had people compliment me, but I've been impressed myself as I caught whiffs of the scent 6-7 hours into application -- and I usually have problems with longevity owing to my dryish skin.

    If people complimented me, it usually means the scent is still projecting.


    PVC and Leather. A Chain and a feather




  3. #3

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    I have the same problem with MKK. I started a thread about it here.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Somewhere in here I read that musk notes have a higher degree of anosmia.

    In my brief trial of MKK- I got heavy horse smelling top notes then little or nothing after about 15 minutes.

    Musc Ravageur- get no musk out of it at all...cinnamon and cloves.

    I'm pretty blocked to musk I think. Ask others you know if they can smell it.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    I get pretty good sillage from MKK, although it's definitely more like a low rumble than a high whistle. Present but subtle.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    According to various sources, Muscs Koublai Khan has been reformulated at least once (like many other Lutens fragrances). From what I've been reading (and from personal experience) it seems that Serge Lutens is now intent on making his fragrances less rich, dense and challenging in order to appeal to a wider audience - hence some people finding many of his classic releases not being the sillage/longevity monsters that they were once purported to be.

    It's taken me most of this year to reach this conclusion and, as a result, I now refuse to purchase anymore of his fragrances.
    Last edited by Trebor; 17th December 2009 at 10:36 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strollyourlobster View Post
    I get pretty good sillage from MKK, although it's definitely more like a low rumble than a high whistle. Present but subtle.
    Exactly. MKK leaves a subtle aura of musky goodness around the wearer, that is noticable to others, but not in an obvious "someone is wearing perfume" type of manner.

    I find that wearing MKK on the neck leads to olfactory fatigue VERY quickly; this stuff is best worn on the chest so that the scent slowly percolates through the fabric. Wearing two sprays on the chest like this and a dab on the wrists and I can smell this stuff all day and well into the night.
    Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of few; and number not voices, but weigh them. - Immanuel Kant

  8. #8
    smeller
    Guest

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    According to various sources, Muscs Koublai Khan has been reformulated at least once (like many other Lutens fragrances). From what I've been reading (and from personal experience) it seems that Serge Lutens is now intent on making his fragrances less rich, dense and challenging in order to appeal to a wider audience - hence some people finding many of his classic releases not being the sillage/longevity monsters that they were once purported to be.

    It's taken me most of this year to reach this conclusion and, as a result, I now refuse to purchase anymore of his fragrances.
    This sounds like "niche is dead" to my ears.

  9. #9
    vita odorifera
    perfaddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Lagos
    Posts
    7,325
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Like Amit alluded to here, and said in the other thread - controlled sillage. I had the same issue initially, until comments confirmed that MKK is always present for a long while, but certainly not in a loud way. One thing that certainly amps MKK up is high ambient temperature and humidity. Its not a scent that will be appreciated by the wearer and others if it had weapons-grade sillage, IMO.
    ointments and perfume delight the heart....

    #BBOG!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Quote Originally Posted by smeller View Post
    This sounds like "niche is dead" to my ears.
    No, niche is reasonably healthy (albeit an over-saturated market). I just can't give a toss about Serge Lutens anymore. Chene, Fumerie Turque, Fleurs d'Oranger, Chergui, Ambra Sultan, MKK... They've all been reformulated (some as early as 2005/6 and maybe even earlier than that). Even Luca Turin has publicly aired his disdain over this. Many of them, to my nose, just smell weaker or watered down.

    Hey, wait! Weren't all these once part of the exclusive line, before making temporary/permanent appearances in the export line? Interesting, eh?
    Last edited by Trebor; 18th December 2009 at 08:44 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    What I like in Serge Lutens is the richness, complexity, density of his perfumes!
    If they are being watered down will they remain the perfumes they had been? I think not!
    If they are watering down, the perfumes, and turning they less challenging I think they will lost the qualities that maked this House famous!

  12. #12
    smeller
    Guest

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    No, niche is reasonably healthy (albeit an over-saturated market). I just can't give a toss about Serge Lutens anymore. Chene, Fumerie Turque, Fleurs d'Oranger, Chergui, Ambra Sultan, MKK... They've all been reformulated (some as early as 2005/6 and maybe even earlier than that). Even Luca Turin has publicly aired his disdain over this. Many of them, to my nose, just smell weaker or watered down.

    Hey, wait! Weren't all these once part of the exclusive line, before making temporary/permanent appearances in the export line? Interesting, eh?
    Actually, it sounds line "niche is dead" to MY ears, since MKK is the only niche fragrance that made me wish a full bottle until now (among those I sampled), and now it's another "watered down" juice, like they do with mainstream stuff.

    I have yet to try Méchant Loup, Dzing! and/or Mazzolari Lui someday.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Has anyone done a side by side with the juice from the bell jar and the export bottle? These reformulation talks make me feel thankful that I've only got juice from the jar, not the bottle.


    PVC and Leather. A Chain and a feather




  14. #14

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Has there been any official word from Serge Lutens regarding reformulations? It may be futile but I'll try emailing their site and asking about this.

  15. #15
    BINGO
    Guest

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    I put on 2 sprays in the morning (chest/neck) and was set all day and finally just showered. This is a solid 24 hr workhorse on me. Very impressive stuff

  16. #16

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    According to various sources, Muscs Koublai Khan has been reformulated at least once (like many other Lutens fragrances). From what I've been reading (and from personal experience) it seems that Serge Lutens is now intent on making his fragrances less rich, dense and challenging in order to appeal to a wider audience - hence some people finding many of his classic releases not being the sillage/longevity monsters that they were once purported to be.

    It's taken me most of this year to reach this conclusion and, as a result, I now refuse to purchase anymore of his fragrances.
    This sounds serious. Could you be so kind to link us to some of the sources you are referring to?
    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    No, niche is reasonably healthy (albeit an over-saturated market). I just can't give a toss about Serge Lutens anymore. Chene, Fumerie Turque, Fleurs d'Oranger, Chergui, Ambra Sultan, MKK... They've all been reformulated (some as early as 2005/6 and maybe even earlier than that). Even Luca Turin has publicly aired his disdain over this. Many of them, to my nose, just smell weaker or watered down...
    When and where did Dr. Turin air his disdain, please? I would like to be able to read myself what exactly he may have said regarding 'watered down' perfumes by Serge Lutens.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    I'd be interested in reading more about this too. I've not heard anything about reformulations.. I know they've changed the dye they use in Chergui (to green, then back to brown), but I've not heard about anything being reformulated other than stuff I read on message boards.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    According to various sources, Muscs Koublai Khan has been reformulated at least once (like many other Lutens fragrances). From what I've been reading (and from personal experience) it seems that Serge Lutens is now intent on making his fragrances less rich, dense and challenging in order to appeal to a wider audience - hence some people finding many of his classic releases not being the sillage/longevity monsters that they were once purported to be.

    It's taken me most of this year to reach this conclusion and, as a result, I now refuse to purchase anymore of his fragrances.
    Here can we read this sources?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    My bell jar of MKK is from 3-4 years ago and I'm sure an older formulation. Still doesn't last.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    According to various sources, Muscs Koublai Khan has been reformulated at least once (like many other Lutens fragrances). From what I've been reading (and from personal experience) it seems that Serge Lutens is now intent on making his fragrances less rich, dense and challenging in order to appeal to a wider audience - hence some people finding many of his classic releases not being the sillage/longevity monsters that they were once purported to be.

    It's taken me most of this year to reach this conclusion and, as a result, I now refuse to purchase anymore of his fragrances.
    Some more info or specific sources regarding the supposed reformulation of some Lutens would be much appreciated. Thanks

  21. #21

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    I don't have any longevity issues with MKK, especially when I spray it twice on my chest. In fact, I often catch nice waves of it throughout the day (it seems especially responsive to body heat).

    However, even though it lasts, it is definitely not a very 'loud' fragrance. It certainly doesn't have the projection or sillage of, say Ambre Sultan or Chergui. My wife says she can smell it when she is right next to me, but it disappears almost entirely when she moves more than four feet away from me.

    As for reformulation, I have a decant from four years ago and recently bought one of the export bottles currently for sale in the USA. I cannot detect any noticeable difference between them. Indeed, to my nose at least, they are completely indistinguishable.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Quote Originally Posted by flouris View Post
    Has there been any official word from Serge Lutens regarding reformulations? It may be futile but I'll try emailing their site and asking about this.
    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    This sounds serious. Could you be so kind to link us to some of the sources you are referring to? When and where did Dr. Turin air his disdain, please? I would like to be able to read myself what exactly he may have said regarding 'watered down' perfumes by Serge Lutens.
    Quote Originally Posted by flouris View Post
    I'd be interested in reading more about this too. I've not heard anything about reformulations.. I know they've changed the dye they use in Chergui (to green, then back to brown), but I've not heard about anything being reformulated other than stuff I read on message boards.
    Quote Originally Posted by etoile View Post
    Here can we read this sources?
    Quote Originally Posted by flouris View Post
    Some more info or specific sources regarding the supposed reformulation of some Lutens would be much appreciated. Thanks
    Geez, if I had received an e-mail notification about the above posts, I would have replied sooner!

    What I mentioned earlier consists of pieces of information I stumbled across over the web, as well as first-hand experience (the export bottle and bell jar versions of Chene smelt significantly different, and Chergui has changed its colour twice over the last 18 months) over the last few months. Naturally, I thought many here had already come across them, hence why I never bothered making a big deal of it on these boards:


    Some details about the reformulation of Fleurs d'Oranger (scroll down to the beginning of the comments section):

    http://boisdejasmin.typepad.com/_/20...lutens-el.html


    And another (post #6):

    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...nd-parfum.html


    Some details about the reformulation of Muscs Koublaï Khän (comment #28):

    http://perfumeoflife.com/index.php?s...8&#entry519778


    Some brief details about the reformulation of Un Bois Sepia and Chene:

    http://thenonblonde.blogspot.com/200...ois-sepia.html


    Serge Lutens admitting to reformulating some of his creations (with a comments section):

    http://translate.google.co.uk/transl...ial%26hs%3Dqts


    Comments regarding Serge Lutens' recent admission about reformulating, and details about Fleurs d'Orange and Datura Noir:

    http://perfumeoflife.com/index.php?showtopic=32205

    http://translate.google.co.uk/transl...N%26start%3D10


    There are a couple more links I can't recall at the moment. If I remember or find them, I'll add them at a later date.
    Last edited by Trebor; 22nd December 2009 at 12:27 AM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    I have a bell jar of MKK from about 2005 and can't distinguish it from what's being sold today at Barney's.

    I agree with Amit: it has a "stealth sillage" thing going. Which I'm glad of; I wouldn't want to be whacking anyone over the head with this one..

  24. #24

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    This was my SOTD today. I can still smell it after 10+ hrs., but no comments from anyone. I'd say tenacious and close to the skin, but considering that my partner says it smells like a homeless person, that's probably a good thing. Does one really want to project musk?

  25. #25

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    Geez, if I had received an e-mail notification about the above posts, I would have replied sooner!

    What I mentioned earlier consists of pieces of information I stumbled across over the web, as well as first-hand experience (the export bottle and bell jar versions of Chene smelt significantly different, and Chergui has changed its colour twice over the last 18 months) over the last few months. Naturally, I thought many here had already come across them, hence why I never bothered making a big deal of it ...
    "Tu quoque, Brute !? "....
    Thank you for answering some of the questions, Trebor!
    As expected, some of the information is from the vast field of consumer impressions and rumors. But at the core it's bad news for me. I cannot ignore what Serge Lutens is quoted to have said. And now I know why I had overlooked Tania Sanchez' remarks on reformulations for Un Bois de Sepia and Fumerie Turque: I had the general impression that she wasn't tuned in too well to 'get' most SL perfumes, and I stopped reading those reviews of hers. I learned my lesson now. Her review of Chène, however, does not even discuss reformulation.

    I am still looking where Luca Turin publicly aired his disdain. Can anybody help?
    Last edited by narcus; 22nd December 2009 at 07:41 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    narcus, if it wasn't for my personal experiences of Chergui, Chene, Feminite du Bois and Fumerie Turque, coupled with Serge Lutens' statement, I wouldn't have particularly been bothered - rumours and fears of reformulations crop up frequently on both perfume forums and blogs. However, where there's smoke there's always fire...

    I complained about Chene being reformulated both on these boards and to the manager of Les Salons du Palais Royal, and my concerns were either denied or simply fell upon deaf ears. It was only when I smelt the re-released (and reformulated) Feminite du Bois that I noticed a faint correlation - Chene, Chergui, Feminite du Bois, Fumerie Turque... all once 100% exclusive Lutens creations. Couple this with the uninspiring releases, which appear to be targeted more towards the masses, the chance that the opinions of those in the above links are full of s*** is quite slim, IMO.

    I recently won a vintage bottle of Arabie on ebay (sticker and box has 'Symbole Luxe International' instead of 'Les Salons du Palais Royal Shiseido') and even that smells different to the current version being sold - less fresh, slightly more dense and with better longevity. My original intention was to get a back-up bottle, after discovering those links, only to realise (after getting the back-up bottle) that Arabie might have been changed as well!

    I once recall Serge Lutens stating that he would never reformulate any of his fragrances (I can't remember the source but I came across it shortly after discovering his house). This was before the whole reformulation culture became more frequent and public. Now, he's done a complete u-turn (and chances are he was reformulating well before his denial). Throw in the riddles and abstract/elusive answers provided in interviews, I certainly find it increasingly difficult to trust this... snake.
    Last edited by Trebor; 22nd December 2009 at 08:34 AM.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    I feel with you, very much. And I have had no doubts in your own observations. I should probably have said that earlier, but my focus was on the whole, irrespective of who contributes.

    The new Tabac Blond was the worst shocking experience with perfumes I ever had. I didn't believe the Turins when they discussed it here on BN in 2008. I had to smell it for myself first. What some found 'not so bad' or 'still wonderful' is indeed a mere souvenir card of the Eiffel Tower - at best! Of course people who never smelled a more authentic version from of the eighties will not understand.... After the shock came Turins sinister predictions, IFRA, and the reports on what will never be same again in 2010 based on EU regulations. During all this time Lutens was my stronghold. But now I have to see that I was deaf and blind in the past. A Shiseido decision, or is it Luten's free will? Strange!

    For the sake of perfumery, we need one major outfit that continues to produce poisons without much fear, and declares that on the bottle (the alternative legal method, from all I know). That would be a first true niche company, away from multi-million turnovers. Quality still pays. Instead, the industry competes by imitating each other at increased speed to come up with banalities that smell about the same.
    Last edited by narcus; 4th January 2010 at 05:11 PM. Reason: spelling
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Amouage is stil useing
    moss, animal amber and civet.
    somehow they manage to not to follow the IFRA rules.
    Last edited by moreda; 22nd December 2009 at 09:19 AM.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyprince View Post
    Does one really want to project musk?
    This is one musk I most definitely want to project -- and I get complimented too, which is a cherry on top. Now I'm no longer sure if MKK has been reformulated too, but it's just perfect the way it is atm


    PVC and Leather. A Chain and a feather




  30. #30

    Default Re: Muscs Koublai Khan: weak projection?

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    I feel with you, very much. And I have had no doubts in your own oservations. I should probably have said that earlier, but my focus was on the whole, irrespective of who contributes.

    The new Tabac Blond was the worst shocking experience with perfumes I ever had. I didn't believe the Turins when they discussed it here on BN in 2008. I had to smell it for myself first. What some found 'not so bad' or 'still wonderful' is indeed a mere souvenir card of the Eiffel Tower - at best! Of course people who never smelled a more authentic version from of the eighties will not understand.... After the shock came Turins sinister predictions, IFRA, and the reports on what will never be same again in 2010 based on EU regulations. During all this time Lutens was my stronghold. But now I have to see that I was deaf and blind in the past. A Shiseido decision, or is it Luten's free will? Strange!

    For the sake of perfumery, we need one major outfit that continues to produce poisons without much fear, and declares that on the bottle (the alternative legal method, from all I know). That would be a first true niche company, away from multi-million turnovers. Quality still pays. Instead, the industry competes by imitating each other at increased speed to come up with banalities that smell about the same.
    Well, the problem with reformulations (and my main gripe, if you disregard the change in formulation itself) is that when you find out it's almost too late to act quickly! Added with the confusion of houses using almost the same packaging, you're usually left high and dry.

    With increased fears of reformulation, I decided to buy another bottle of Blue Amber as back-up (just in case). I specifically requested to talk with Pierre (btw, there are two Pierres working at Montale Paris). Since my current bottle is at least 18 months old, I asked for some reassurance that Blue Amber had not been reformulated. Then he said something interesting, which in turn solved a couple of mysteries about Montale.

    He said that if a Montale fragrance is due to be reformulated (for whatever reason), they usually change the name of the perfume in order not to create any confusion with their customers. I found his answer both believable and logical (after all, name changes had occurred in the past - Bois de Aoud / Original Aoud anyone?). Anyway, I received my bottle of Blue Amber yesterday and tested it on my skin. It's exactly the same juice as the juice in my older bottle.

    Now, that approach by Montale is exactly the type of approach other perfume houses should be adopting, instead of slithering through the grass and evading important questions that are in the public interest.
    Last edited by Trebor; 22nd December 2009 at 03:35 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Best Place to buy Muscs Koublai Khan by Lutens
    By Diverdown in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 18th June 2008, 10:17 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •