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  1. #1

    Default what do you think a masterpiece is?

    well ... what do you think a masterpiece is, in the world of fragrances?
    Last edited by abzr88; 29th January 2010 at 10:27 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: what do you think is a masterpiece?

    Basenotes.

  3. #3

    Default Re: what do you think is a masterpiece?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galamb_Borong View Post
    Basenotes.
    lol what about a fragrance?

  4. #4

  5. #5

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Whichever frag you designate to be a masterpiece, is a masterpiece Paco


    PVC and Leather. A Chain and a feather




  6. #6

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    In my opinion, any frag stylish and classic enough to stand the test of time.

  7. #7

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Azarro PH

  8. #8

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    1.“Masterpiece (or chef d'œuvre, Meisterstück, Meisterwerk) in modern usage refers to a creation that has been given much critical praise, especially one that is considered the greatest work of a person's career or to a work of outstanding creativity, skill or workmanship.
    Originally, the term masterpiece referred to a piece of work produced by an apprentice or journeyman aspiring to become a master craftsman in the old European guild system…”
    [Source: Wikipedia ]

    2.
    The highest ranking level chosen by Turin and Sanchez for fragrances. See Perfumes The Guide, A-Z

    ***** = ‘masterpiece’.
    **** = ‘recommended
    *** = 'good
    ** = ‘not recommended'
    * = ‘avoid
    Last edited by narcus; 29th January 2010 at 12:17 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  9. #9

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amit View Post
    Whichever frag you designate to be a masterpiece, is a masterpiece Paco
    erm i think you are confusing me with someone eles

  10. #10

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by gupts View Post
    Paco
    same with you, i think you think i am someone eles...

  11. #11

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by gupts View Post
    Paco
    See: http://www.basenotes.net/ID26121244.html

  12. #12

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    A masterpiece is impossible to decipher to an unanimous decision..thus it can only be constructed based on Note Structure...though the scent is a totally different topic...the scent, for me, is all about individual likings. Thus a perfume can only be considered a masterpiece to the kindred couple, the fragrance and the owner. Also, with this in hand..it's impossible for an argument to be settled down if one is trying to convince the other that "This fragrance Is better" etc,etc, it only proves specious and eristic.

    One must understand where others are in their journey and aid them by educating them rather than subjugating one to change
    their opinions, thus they'll obtain knowledge and will intrinsically see the light!

    - Balava
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  13. #13

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    A masterpiece is a perfume that is considered a masterpiece by a good number of serious perfume lovers. This is the usual definition. But each person should choose his or hers own masterpieces. I mean, if you think a perfume is not a masterpiece, then it is not. End of story.

    The truth is that what really matters is your own appreciation. If the fragrance doesn't touch you, it doesn't matter if it touched everybody else. You should be informed by the opinions of others, and try to learn and develop your senses as much as possible. But in the end, what really matters is your own experience.

  14. #14

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    To me a masterpiece is a perfume that has a composition which displays a definite perfumistic concept which is executed with balance and development, wherein the structure of the scent displays the perfumer's concept while maintaining an aesthitic that is wearable, pleasing and somewhat challenging. A masterpiece is often ahead of its time and tends to set trends in the perfume industry for decades to come, while not always being popular in its own day.
    Last edited by mrclmind; 29th January 2010 at 05:34 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    To me a masterpiece is a perfume that has a composition which displays a definite perfumistic concept which is executed with balance and development, wherein the structure of the scent displays the perfumer's concept while maintaining an aesthitic that is wearable, pleasing and somewhat challenging. A masterpiece is often ahead of its time and tends to set trends in the perfume industry for decades to come, while not always being popular in its own day.

    ^ That is a masterpiece.
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  16. #16

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    For me Egoiste is a masterpiece.
    I have never smelled anything that I liked better, but I must confess that I am not an expert sniffer.

  17. #17

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    To me a masterpiece is a perfume that has a composition which displays a definite perfumistic concept which is executed with balance and development, wherein the structure of the scent displays the perfumer's concept while maintaining an aesthitic that is wearable, pleasing and somewhat challenging. A masterpiece is often ahead of its time and tends to set trends in the perfume industry for decades to come, while not always being popular in its own day.
    Hanging the bar as high as that, we don't have all that many to choose from, do we?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nexus6 View Post
    For me Egoiste is a masterpiece.
    I have never smelled anything that I liked better, but I must confess that I am not an expert sniffer.
    You don't have to be an expert sniffer to know what you like best, Nexus6. "Above all, a perfume has to be beautiful..." (Guy Robert, if I am not mistaken) assessing the aesthetic values of a perfume can never be an objective process only.

    edit:

    Thread : "Above all else, a perfume must smell good" - source?/ June 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by luca turin View Post
    Guy Robert (in conversation): "Un parfum doit avant tout sentir bon".
    Last edited by narcus; 30th January 2010 at 07:45 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  18. #18

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Impossibly subjective.

    If we were walking through a museum gallery of oil paintings, how would we define a masterpiece then?

    The definition seems to hinge on the opinion of people who (1) have a broad and deep understanding of the medium, and (2) think it's really really good.

    Half joking: It seems to me that a major difference between paintings and perfumes is that with paintings, the majority of laymen defer to the opinions of experts, whereas with perfumes, almost everybody thinks that they are an expert, while at the same time, professed experts are either canonized or derided mercilessly, with little or no middle ground.

    My personal attitude is best summed up by a winemaker I once talked to, who said: "If you like a wine, it is good...if you hate it, it is sh*t. That's all that matters."

    That said, out of my wardrobe of 30 or so fragrances, I seem to wear/love L'Air du Desert Marocain more than the others. It's beautiful, distinctive, just complex enough to remain interesting over time.

  19. #19

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    Hanging the bar as high as that, we don't have all that many to choose from, do we?
    Many excellent, top notch, five star fragrances out there; but a masterpiece? IMO, the bar should be high for such a label!

  20. #20

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post
    ^ That is a masterpiece.
    <<Blush>>

  21. #21

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    Many excellent, top notch, five star fragrances out there; but a masterpiece? IMO, the bar should be high for such a label!
    Yes, the title masterpiece is thrown around cheaply nowerdays and I personally believe it should be more exclusive in its definition. Yes each person will have his or her own personal interpretations of a good scent but the general guiding principles on how to judge if you have come across a masterpiece should be the same.
    "What actions are most excellent? To gladden the heart of human beings, to feed the hungry, to help the afflicted, to lighten the sorrow of the sorrowful, and to remove the sufferings of the injured" Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

  22. #22

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Something that smells really good.

  23. #23

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_Russell View Post
    In my opinion, any frag stylish and classic enough to stand the test of time.
    Correct.

  24. #24

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    something that is exceptional, cannot be replaced, and would compel you to go through extraordinary measures to obtain
    Off-Site Decants =) (updated 05/16/12)
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  25. #25

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    To me a masterpiece is a perfume that has a composition which displays a definite perfumistic concept which is executed with balance and development, wherein the structure of the scent displays the perfumer's concept while maintaining an aesthitic that is wearable, pleasing and somewhat challenging. A masterpiece is often ahead of its time and tends to set trends in the perfume industry for decades to come, while not always being popular in its own day.
    Every one of those factors is absolutely true. I would also add:

    A masterpiece gets every single detail right; there is not so much as a minor mis-step. The concept, the name, the typeface, the logo, the packaging, the bottle, are all powerfully evocative, beautiful, and consistent with the fragrance's style. The scent is, first and foremost, beautiful, but also displaying complexity, balance, and an interesting development through time. (Some people would also add longevity, strength, and sillage as factors.) The fragrance is unique, either totally groundbreaking, an example of a new type, or, as with many classic Guerlains, an improvement upon an existing accord.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Foetidus's reviews are all masterpieces.
    Last edited by JON RODGERS; 29th January 2010 at 10:12 PM.

  27. #27

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    A masterpiece gets every single detail right; there is not so much as a minor mis-step.
    Hope you don't mind a slightly dissenting opinion about the nature of masterpieces in general rather than perfume in particular. Some of the world's legitimate masterpieces do contain missteps, momentary stumbles, a detail or two gone briefly awry, but the masterpiece corrects those missteps, somehow rights itself, and emerges better and richer for that. A touch of the banal never really hurts the great ones.

  28. #28

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    High-quality ingredients, no "off" notes, not too chemically (unless that was actually the pefumer's intent), distinctive, unique. I never buy the "must stand the test of time" argument. The world's greatest works of art were no less "masterpiece" five minutes after they were created than they were 500 years later. A masterpiece is a masterpiece.

  29. #29

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Any, and all masterpiece fragrances are decided solely by the wearer.
    Don't panic. Just stay calm, and reload....

  30. #30

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    I believe all art is subjective, and that includes fragrance.

  31. #31

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    I forgot to mention that a masterpiece must be innovative.

    If a masterpiece is a copy of another, then it is not a masterpiece. It is a copy.
    Last edited by Billy Budd; 30th January 2010 at 04:16 AM.

  32. #32

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron199 View Post
    Any, and all masterpiece fragrances are decided solely by the wearer.
    I agree. But, how do you, subjectively, as a wearer, determine what makes a fragrance a masterpiece? It's a very interesting question. I am really enjoying reading everyone's perspectives.
    Last edited by mrclmind; 30th January 2010 at 05:04 AM.

  33. #33

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    I think I'm going to have to agree that Paco is a masterpiece, a soapy masterpiece--in accordance with the first couple of responses, but the REAL masterpiece and a drydown creation of God is--while extremely inexpensive:

    Opium pour homme EDT.

    “Government big enough to supply
    everything you need is big enough
    to take everything you have.”
    Thomas Jefferson

  34. #34

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    I like Opium for women, it is truly good. But Opium for men makes me want to throw up. I don't know which note causes it, but I think it is horrible.

  35. #35

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Budd View Post
    I like Opium for women, it is truly good. But Opium for men makes me want to throw up.
    I hear ya

  36. #36

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    To me a masterpiece is a perfume that has a composition which displays a definite perfumistic concept which is executed with balance and development, wherein the structure of the scent displays the perfumer's concept while maintaining an aesthitic that is wearable, pleasing and somewhat challenging. ...
    While quite comprehensive on one hand, your own concept seems to be too restrictive on the other.
    Example : Lutens' Borneo is one of those perfumes that has been tagged rather ugly and/or unwearable by some while others find its smell beautiful to very beautiful. And does it display the perfumer's concept? - Many great perfumes remain as enigmatic, as a lot of the '1000 Masterpieces' in 10'000 art temples of the world. Development is not the key to Lutens world either.
    Conclusion : Not meeting one or all of those criteria would exclude LT's perfumes from being considered ?

    Wearable
    and pleasing : these qualities are a must for successful mainstream perfumes of course, but not absolutely necessary for masterpieces, I am convinced. Or wouldn't perfume, as another form of art, follow the same principles and philosophies as all art does. Parting thought from the world of music: Meistersinger, Beckmesser, Tannhäuser.
    Last edited by narcus; 30th January 2010 at 08:27 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forlorn View Post
    Hope you don't mind a slightly dissenting opinion about the nature of masterpieces in general rather than perfume in particular. Some of the world's legitimate masterpieces do contain missteps, momentary stumbles, a detail or two gone briefly awry, but the masterpiece corrects those missteps, somehow rights itself, and emerges better and richer for that. A touch of the banal never really hurts the great ones.
    This is a good point.

    In the context of fragrances, I notice how the "flaws" in my "masterpieces" actually tend to grow on me over time anyways.

  38. #38

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
    I think I'm going to have to agree that Paco is a masterpiece, a soapy masterpiece--in accordance with the first couple of responses, but the REAL masterpiece and a drydown creation of God is--while extremely inexpensive:

    Opium pour homme EDT.
    Aye, a masterpiece Opium is, though not everyone is addicted. The EDT for men is, to me, wonderfully addicting and without equal.

  39. #39

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galamb_Borong View Post
    I believe all art is subjective, and that includes fragrance.
    Perfumery is no art in its own. It's not an art form. In contradiction to arts a masterpiece would be crafted for a specific purpose. That could be - honestly - a perfectly balanced scent for a toilet cleaner.
    Scents engaged in the beauty market are made for a different purpose than toilet cleaners scents. But it is aimed too: to differ from others, to not offend, respect expectations, blurred enough to bear a lots of projections etc ... Btw Terre D'Hermes is a perfect masterpiece. Even it's bold fake sophistication is part of the concept being a "better scent for those who know". It makes people buy, and that is it, a masterpiece.

    In my understanding the wording becomes part of a masterpiece itself. Once a perfume may be said to be a masterpiece it will undergo self fulfiling prophecy, selling better ... no joke this time.

    If You dare, what could be a masterpiece in industrial fragrance? ... not kidding, again.

    ps: did You ever care about industrial frags that surround You? Starting with Your very shampoo / shower gel down to the scent You boot polish comes with? The cleaner at the burgers desk and the toilets there etc? How does fine perfumery persist?
    Last edited by merry.waters; 30th January 2010 at 10:52 AM.

  40. #40

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Also, It's funny..most perfumers are too scared to admit their art as masterpieces...so that on it's own declares that EVERYONE is consumed to subject their own judgments on any fragrance they desire.

    "Masterpiece" is just a noun...and within this word it conveys so much power that it is the quintessential reason why the consumer of the fragrance can connect his/her feelings. It acts as a catalyst! and thus can jut out a fragrance from many others! Amazing what a "noun" Can do!

    - Balava!

    Though like everyone else has said. A true masterpiece will evolve with the times and thus bring it's primordial nature with it to inspire others!
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  41. #41

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by merry.waters View Post
    If You dare, what could be a masterpiece in industrial fragrance? ... not kidding, again.
    "Masterpiece" is completely subjective in my opinion, so indeed, Pine-Sol is a masterpiece ( or not, as you like ). Given its subjectivity, I find masterpiece useless as a description. Terms too open to interpretation have a tendency to lose their meaning like that.

    Fortunately, fragrance forums are much more receptive to this kind of talk. On many music forums I've been on, the usual argument is "This is a masterpiece because I think it is and some guy who wrote a book said so, so there!" And everyone gets very hurt and teary and angry.

    Oh, and this post is undoubtedly, unquestionably an absolute masterpiece and the single greatest artistic statement of all time. If you need me, I'll be resting on my laurels...

  42. #42

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Haha! nice...Meh, this post isn't gonna end though will sure cop up a lot of indolent speculation which is MINDLESS GOODNESS! WOOH!
    Last edited by Balavassassin; 30th January 2010 at 11:18 AM.
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  43. #43
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    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forlorn View Post
    Hope you don't mind a slightly dissenting opinion about the nature of masterpieces in general rather than perfume in particular. Some of the world's legitimate masterpieces do contain missteps, momentary stumbles, a detail or two gone briefly awry, but the masterpiece corrects those missteps, somehow rights itself, and emerges better and richer for that. A touch of the banal never really hurts the great ones.
    +

    Quote Originally Posted by Hasupk@gmail.com View Post
    something that is exceptional, cannot be replaced, and would compel you to go through extraordinary measures to obtain
    The above more or less nail it.

    As in art, the concept is quite subjective and personal. However, certain "masterpieces" are identified and acknowledged as such because a lot of aficionados come to the same conclusion.

    Personally, i tend to think my favourites are masterpieces (more in the classic designer/mainstream category than in niche)

    Welcome to BaseNotes, abzr88.
    Last edited by perfaddict; 30th January 2010 at 11:47 AM.
    ointments and perfume delight the heart....

    #BBOG!

  44. #44

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    something that is exceptional, cannot be replaced, and would compel you to go through extraordinary measures to obtain
    Thus as been repeated 2102301203 times , we've all nailed it! One would desire it soo abundantly that he'd risk himself to
    the point of Perishing. IT is because "HE AND SHE" Desires it!

    A masterpiece is anomic, odd and unlike! inept to bring any similarities though vastly guaranteed to be duped by the unworthy!

    A deluged component of fervor and love, ones true emotions...and emotions only! No other Inspirations!! only EMOTION!!
    Last edited by Balavassassin; 30th January 2010 at 12:11 PM.
    - I Want To Appreciate You With My Eyes Closed-

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  45. #45

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    I think, A masterpiece is always brand-new eachtime you wear it. A masterpiece always makes you and people around you want it more and more everytime you wear it.

  46. #46

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    To me a masterpiece is a perfume that has a composition which displays a definite perfumistic concept which is executed with balance and development, wherein the structure of the scent displays the perfumer's concept while maintaining an aesthitic that is wearable, pleasing and somewhat challenging. A masterpiece is often ahead of its time and tends to set trends in the perfume industry for decades to come, while not always being popular in its own day.
    I would have expected nothing less than this wonderful definition from Mr. mrclmind. My personal take on a masterpiece per the aforementioned definition is Mauboussin pour Homme EDP. To me, this is a true masterpiece!

  47. #47

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    While quite comprehensive on one hand, your own concept seems to be too restrictive on the other.
    Example : Lutens' Borneo is one of those perfumes that has been tagged rather ugly and/or unwearable by some while others find its smell beautiful to very beautiful. And does it display the perfumer's concept? - Many great perfumes remain as enigmatic, as a lot of the '1000 Masterpieces' in 10'000 art temples of the world. Development is not the key to Lutens world either.
    Conclusion : Not meeting one or all of those criteria would exclude LT's perfumes from being considered ?

    Wearable
    and pleasing : these qualities are a must for successful mainstream perfumes of course, but not absolutely necessary for masterpieces, I am convinced. Or wouldn't perfume, as another form of art, follow the same principles and philosophies as all art does. Parting thought from the world of music: Meistersinger, Beckmesser, Tannhäuser.
    Yes, but I said that was what a masterpiece was "to me." I would never attempt a universal definition of such a thing...

  48. #48

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Masterpiece fragrance: a fragrance you can recall after smelling it for the first time, a fragrance etched in the mind. By definition subjective.

  49. #49

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    Yes, but I said that was what a masterpiece was "to me." I would never attempt a universal definition of such a thing...
    I find your personal definition to be quite satisfactory. Critiquing a fragrance is highly subjective, and therefore open to varied interpretations.

  50. #50

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by SillageMonger View Post
    I find your personal definition to be quite satisfactory. Critiquing a fragrance is highly subjective, and therefore open to varied interpretations.
    Thank you!! I agree too... it's very subjective.

  51. #51

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by merry.waters View Post
    Perfumery is no art in its own. It's not an art form. In contradiction to arts a masterpiece would be crafted for a specific purpose. That could be - honestly - a perfectly balanced scent for a toilet cleaner....
    I had been hoping someone would bring this up. Thank you, merrywaters! Have fun with the replies, but be prepared for some booing too.
    Off now, I may chime in later...
    Last edited by narcus; 30th January 2010 at 04:10 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi è un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  52. #52

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    Thank you!! I agree too... it's very subjective.
    Ah, no. If "masterpiece" ain't just marketing blabber it is related to some kind handicraft - even within the arts (music, painting etc). The quality differentiates it against more common products. Quality is not subjective in handicraft. In the first place it is measurable e/g by precision, economics in material and work, usability.

    None of the criteria above is detectable for the end user of a perfume. As far as it is about subjective liking alone a thing as a masterpiece is a quite senseless concept. You can't even talk about it without drowning in arbitrariness. Proof? This thread ;-)

  53. #53

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by merry.waters View Post
    Ah, no. If "masterpiece" ain't just marketing blabber it is related to some kind handicraft - even within the arts (music, painting etc). The quality differentiates it against more common products. Quality is not subjective in handicraft. In the first place it is measurable e/g by precision, economics in material and work, usability.

    None of the criteria above is detectable for the end user of a perfume. As far as it is about subjective liking alone a thing as a masterpiece is a quite senseless concept. You can't even talk about it without drowning in arbitrariness. Proof? This thread ;-)
    Well I guess that depends on whether you are judging its merits as a utilitarian piece or an aesthetic one. It doesn't really matter to me how you define all this stuff as long as you are enjoying it, otherwise it starts to get a bit petty and the fun is gone. Once the fun is gone, then what's the point? It's perfume, not medicine after all. We aren't saving lives here, we're just having a good time talking about something that we all enjoy.

    Here are the 4 definitions of "Masterpiece" I found from Websters:

    1. a person's greatest piece of work, as in an art.
    2. anything done with masterly skill: a masterpiece of improvisation.
    3. a consummate example of skill or excellence of any kind: The chef's cake was a masterpiece.
    4. a piece made by a person aspiring to the rank of master in a guild or other craft organization as a proof of competence.

  54. #54
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    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpk View Post
    Masterpiece fragrance: a fragrance you can recall after smelling it for the first time, a fragrance etched in the mind. By definition subjective.
    Hmmm. You may need to qualify the definition positively . I smelt Beyond Paradise for Men just once, almost choked, and will never forget how it smells. It will haunt me for decades! The SA actually giggled out loud at my reaction. It was definitely NOT a masterpiece.
    ointments and perfume delight the heart....

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  55. #55

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by perfaddict View Post
    Hmmm. You may need to qualify the definition positively . I smelt Beyond Paradise for Men just once, almost choked, and will never forget how it smells. It will haunt me for decades! The SA actually giggled out loud at my reaction. It was definitely NOT a masterpiece.
    Proof positive that it is subjective. Luca Turin thinks of it as a masterpiece and you and I both disagree with his assessment!

  56. #56

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    My, my, my...I was almost certain that improvisation, whether it applied to music or to any other creative venture, was by its very nature SUBJECTIVE. I have always enjoyed Jazz music because of its wonderfully imaginative musical expression. Any attempt at portraying the creation of a fragrance as an objective endeavor completely defeats the very purpose of its creation. Fragrances are more often than not purposefully created, however, they are always subject to individual olfactory interpretation. The interpretation of fragrance will ALWAYS be entirely subjective by nature.

  57. #57

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by perfaddict View Post
    Hmmm. You may need to qualify the definition positively . I smelt Beyond Paradise for Men just once, almost choked, and will never forget how it smells. It will haunt me for decades! The SA actually giggled out loud at my reaction. It was definitely NOT a masterpiece.
    You have a point there. But still a remarkably "bad" perfume is closer to masterpiece than a forgettable one. I remind you Secretions Magnifiques.
    Last edited by cpk; 30th January 2010 at 05:49 PM.

  58. #58

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Scent itself is NOT subjective. This has been scientifically proven. This is the reason why when a scent is added to natural gas, we don't have to worry about people breathing it in and dying. Everyone (unless they have a damaged sense of smell) knows exactly what it smells like. We all smell the same things. There have been many studies which prove this.

    However, what is subjective is whether or not one finds a scent pleasing. When dealing with perfumistic compositions as aesthetic works of art, determining the merits of such compositions are very subjective indeed. Much like the note "C" and the G dominant seventh chords are not subjective in and of themselves; but whether or not you consider Mozart's "Hayden Quartets" to be masterpieces or not (which I do) is very subjective.

  59. #59

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Notes have an aesthetic sygnificance only in a composition. Otherwise they are just soundwaves.

  60. #60

    Default Re: what do you think a masterpiece is?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    Here are the 4 definitions of "Masterpiece" I found from Websters:

    1. a person's greatest piece of work, as in an art.
    2. anything done with masterly skill: a masterpiece of improvisation.
    3. a consummate example of skill or excellence of any kind: The chef's cake was a masterpiece.
    4. a piece made by a person aspiring to the rank of master in a guild or other craft organization as a proof of competence.
    So, a masterpiece is related to some kind of handicraft. What are the materials, what are the tools that a perfumer has to prove his skill with? The purpose of a masterpiece is not to please by itself, but to aim successfully for a given (!) specification. The common denominator of the citation You gave is "reason". The know how and what for.

    As long as Your specification is Your very liking as a sole subject it ain't a valid criterion for being a perfume a masterpiece or not. We could talk about Your personal preferences, though.

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