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  1. #31

    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Histoire des Parfums is producing some complex "classically French" style fragrances.
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  2. #32
    zztopp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    If any house deserves ZZ's thrashing it is Caron. WTF? They destroyed most everything they had. Guerlain is still tops! Insolence is pure genius! Guerlain Homme Intense is very, very good.
    Apart from their masculines and Tabac Blond I don't have much experience with the Caron classics (before and after reformulations). Going by the noise created by Caron fans, Guerlain looks pretty good by comparison ! I think the real destruction of Guerlain will come when JPGuerlain is no longer around to say "Waitaminute....thats just too absurd and cheap a formula to pander around!" from his retirement home.
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  3. #33

    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    mrclmind, haha, Is Mr. Richard From Caron a Perfume Iconoclast now?? wow, Hope he leaves!


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  4. #34

    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    I have some problems with Parfums de Nicolaï in a list of grand tradition French parfumers. Yes, Patricia de Nicolaï is a descendant of the Guerlain dynasty, but, IMO, she is missing some of the family's grand tradition genes. I find everything about her creations to be far too earnest. The anti-art direction, the dreary, communist headquarters-style shops, but mostly, the primness that typifies many of her creations. Guerlains are often quite sexy and can be quite loud. I can't think of one PdN that I would wear with the same vigor that I get from Shalimar, Que Plus Jamais or even Insolence, for that matter.
    I feel that Amouage is one of the few houses that incorporates the grand tradition into its product, and therefore, walks the walk.
    Serge Lutens is certainly close, but his oeuvre is too tightly wound up in oriental ornamentation to count as true, grand perfumery IMHO.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 5th April 2010 at 05:04 AM.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Personally, I think a great deal depends on how much you like Guerlain's particular style of perfumery. If you find Guerlain to be the apex of perfumery, then there is little chance another house is going to become as high in your estimations, even if it is high quality, they're likely to be making fragrances in their own style, rather than aping Guerlain.

    For my part, I enjoy some Guerlain, but the entire house could go down like the Titanic and it wouldn't be taking any of my favorites with it.

    I think Guerlain, Caron, and Chanel are all to some degree retaining some of the traditions - and historic fragrances - of French perfumery.

    Annick Goutal I'm on the fence about, as it seems to be on the fence of a lot of categories, somewhere between designer and niche, not quite old enough to be a classic house, but going well before the majority of the modern niche houses. I'm not sure about complex per se - my favorite Goutal, Sables, is actually quite simple - but undeniably very French.

    If I had to name one modern French house that carried those traditions forward in a complex way, it would be Parfumerie Generale. Complex, nuanced fragrances that are focused more on abstract blends than individual notes.

    Though it's something that's probably better covered in another topic, I feel many modern niche fragrances, French or otherwise, have taken a different stylistic road from the classicism of traditional French perfumery. There is much less of a focus on abstraction and more of a focus on individual ingredients given a starring role, like Montale's seemingly endless variations on oud; Lutens' classics like A La Nuit ( jasmine ), Iris Silver Mist, Chergui ( tobacco ); Malle favorites like Carnal Flower, Vetiver Extraordinaire, Musc Ravageur. Not to say these are less complex for doing so, merely that the style and focus seem to have shifted in a different direction from the abstract fragrances of yesteryear.

    Of course, there's no way of predicting where each house will go next, whether it's Serge giving us something fresh or an Avante Garde house like CdG putting out something like Daphne ( which smells to me like some floral from the '70s! )

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    Apart from their masculines and Tabac Blond I don't have much experience with the Caron classics (before and after reformulations). Going by the noise created by Caron fans, Guerlain looks pretty good by comparison!
    Going on some opinions over on the womens' forum, it may be the case that the demise of the Caron feminines was greatly exaggerated.
    Last edited by Sugandaraja; 3rd February 2010 at 08:06 PM.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Quote Originally Posted by Galamb_Borong View Post
    Going on some opinions over on the womens' forum, it may be the case that the demise of the Caron feminines was greatly exaggerated.
    I don't know that I would say it's highly exaggerated... but that it's a matter of preference. The reformulations of Caron's classic feminines have definitely changed many of the scents, sometimes to an extreme. Some people actually prefer the new formulations. For someone to say that the scents are virtually unchanged is surprising to me. The changes in some are actually quite dramatic.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Loving this thread. V well put, Galamb.

    While I appreciate the trend of fragrance interpretation revolving around the single note, I find more often than not, wishing for more subtle blending and complex layers reminiscent of Guerlains of old. Truth be told, I'm already getting weary of Lutens and on the verge of giving up on Guerlain's prospects with Wasser at the helm. Hunting and hoarding vintage juice seems to be the logical step forward though I find myself drawn to retro indie houses like Sonoma Scent Studio, oriental attar houses like Amouage and the neo-classic stylings of Histoires de Parfums. Indeed, change is inevitable and it's probably time to pick new favorites.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Patricia de Nicolai, who is after all a Guerlain herself, MUST be mentioned here.
    +1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    I can't think of one PdN that I would wear with the same vigor that I get from Habit Rouge, Que Plus Jamais or even Jicky for that matter.
    New York, Nicolai pour Homme, Patchouli Homme and Vetyver are on the same level, IMO!

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Patricia de Nicolai, who is after all a Guerlain herself, MUST be mentioned here.
    The golden age of Guerlain is clearly over. A LVMH brand has other priorities than making the best possible perfume, which I believe the Guerlain family was truly commited to, without losing sight of economic necessities. That doesn't mean Guerlain is now all bad, but brands of this size are no longer the place to look for the ultimate in craft and aesthetics, I believe, just as you very rarely find the really good music in the Top 40 these days, or even signed to Majors.
    Astonishing. It took 27 posts to list, to me at least, the most obvious choice. This was an instant thought when I read the title, in fact I almost didn't come in here because I figured the whole thread would be about Nicolai. I DO NOT care for PdN's creations, for the reason stated in the thread title, they smell too "old school french" for my relatively contemporary tastes.
    Last edited by mtgprox05; 3rd February 2010 at 11:19 PM.
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  10. #40

    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Quote Originally Posted by mtgprox05 View Post
    Astonishing. It took 27 posts to list, to me at least, the most obvious choice. This was an instant thought when I read the title, in fact I almost didn't come in here because I figured the whole thread would be about Nicolai. I DO NOT care for PdN's creations, for the reason stated in the thread title, they smell too "old school french" for my relatively contemporary tastes.
    Actually I mentioned her in post #15.

    Unlike you, I like quite a few of her creations. I think she is much more understated and discrete than the "old school french."
    Last edited by mrclmind; 3rd February 2010 at 11:57 PM.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Quote Originally Posted by Galamb_Borong View Post
    Going on some opinions over on the womens' forum, it may be the case that the demise of the Caron feminines was greatly exaggerated.
    Don't know who is correct but the general consensus is that Caron screwed up big time. Fraysse should be held responsible - J. Polge once stated that 85% of his job at Chanel involves adjusting the classic formulas to conform to the latest fickle industry and regulatory requirements with minimal deviation from the original accords. Not only is Fraysse supposedly quite inadept at this, but his insipid and frankly embarrassing (but thankfully infrequent) original launches are fit for a Caron urn in a literal sense.

    I am not a big fan of Wasser but looking at Fraysse's work I realize it could be worse! With that said, I have heard that Caron has some boutique-only exclusives that are rather good...can anyone verify this ?
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  12. #42
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    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    Actually I mentioned her in post #15.

    Unlike you, I like quite a few of her creations. I think she is much more understated and discrete than the "old school french."
    Oops sorry mrclmind, I must have missed it then. It keeps coming up that classic french perfumery was "loud", when I think of classic french perfumery I'm more talking about the note structure and usage.
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  13. #43

    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Quote Originally Posted by mtgprox05 View Post
    Oops sorry mrclmind, I must have missed it then. It keeps coming up that classic french perfumery was "loud", when I think of classic french perfumery I'm more talking about the note structure and usage.
    True, she does have a number of very intensely composed creations, but much of her work I find tends toward more well done simplicity and understated elegance. I guess it really depends on which scent you are talking about. Take Vie de Chateau, Cologne Nature, Cologne Sologne, Eau Provence, de Nicolai Pour Homme, Baladin, Balle de Match, Rose Pivoine, Tonka Vanille for example. These compositions tend to be very well composed but don't jump out and scream PERFUME like much of the traditional french style tends towards...
    Last edited by mrclmind; 4th February 2010 at 01:26 AM.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Quote Originally Posted by Amit View Post
    I continue to think a lot of the Parfumerie Generale fragrances i've used are very oldskool french. I'm probably the only one who feels so, too.
    I'm rocking L'Ombre Fauve today, so count me there too.
    Last edited by StylinLA; 4th February 2010 at 02:17 AM.

  15. #45

    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    I'm surprised there's only one mention of MPG. I consider their creations to be in the grand French style (albeit the reformualtions and the current status of the house). To me, MPG is a precious gem.
    By the way, very interesting thread.

  16. #46

    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Parfumerie Generale, Mona di Orio, Parfums de Nicolai, - I`d add +100!

    No one mentioned Robert Piguet. I`d add that House to the discussion. Yes, reformulated perfumes - but I feel those perfumes as very French with classical shapes.
    Vetiver The Great!!!

  17. #47

    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Quote Originally Posted by moon_fish View Post
    Parfumerie Generale, Mona di Orio, Parfums de Nicolai, - I`d add +100!

    No one mentioned Robert Piguet. I`d add that House to the discussion. Yes, reformulated perfumes - but I feel those perfumes as very French with classical shapes.
    Bandit just got annihilated by the IFRA reforms, it's not even recognizable =( The early stuff is still very good, though.

  18. #48

    Default Re: Are there any other French perfume house catching up to Guerlain's excelence in terms of complex

    Mpg

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