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View Poll Results: Where do you stand on the dry, woody/incense frags?

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  • I always liked them.

    64 83.12%
  • I never liked them.

    3 3.90%
  • I liked them at one time but not at this point.

    4 5.19%
  • I used to dislike them but now like them.

    6 7.79%
Results 1 to 44 of 44
  1. #1

    Default Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    This seems to be the one kind of frag that had its day and is not discussed much any more. I'm talking about the Timbuktu, Bois d'Encens, CdGs (like Avignon), Visit by Azzaro, type of frags. For me, there was a bell curve to it. I disliked them, I slowly came to like them, and then I slowly came to find them unappealing. Not terrible, but not really something that I was drawn to, ever (or hardly ever). Strong vetiver frags, like Encre Noir, still seem to be at least fairly popular by contrast, as do others that don't have much "mass appeal." Hopefully, a poll will prove to be illuminating on this subject.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    I think it was big years ago but I tend to find the newer releases like Hinoki, etc... to be a bit dull.

  3. #3
    odysseusm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    This is my centre.
    odysseusm

    "The force that through the green fuse drives the flower // drives my green age..." Dylan Thomas

  4. #4

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    I find resinous frags with a bit of "wetness" to be a lot more interesting, odysseusm. I'd be curious to know what you find compelling. With dry frags, I've recently come to find herbal ones more pleasant and interesting than the woody/incense ones.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    I still love Timbuktu.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Fragrances like Dia Man and Timbuktu are among the greatest. There are few things I like more than a dry woody oriental. They're timeless, not faddish.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    With all due respect, anything can become a fad, no matter how inherently "great" it is. Otherwise, you are claiming that popular tastes determine actual value, in this case "artistic" value. How much is that pet rock worth nowadays? LOL. And only time will tell if they are timeless !
    Last edited by Bigsly; 16th February 2010 at 03:04 AM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    With all due respect, anything can become a fad, no matter how inherently "great" it is. Otherwise, you are claiming that popular tastes determine actual value, in this case "artistic" value. How much is that pet rock worth nowadays? LOL. And only time will tell if they are timeless !
    Well dry incense notes seemed to be very popular in Ancient Egypt if the history books about Nefertum are to be believed... I'd call that pretty timeless.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Supposedly, the Miglin Pheromone for men frag is the closest thing to an ancient Egyptian frag, and it's not like these dry, woody/incense ones.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Supposedly, the Miglin Pheromone for men frag is the closest thing to an ancient Egyptian frag, and it's not like these dry, woody/incense ones.
    Says who?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    I think that they certainly deserve the designation as New Classics. The CdG Incense Series, Gucci Pour Homme, Dzongkha and L'Air du Désert Marocain still smell very modern/global/vital to me. Incense is not going anywhere soon, IMHO. Frankincense is a cheap, natural material that gives a lot of backbone to compositions that would otherwise be mostly synthetic without it. Plus I can't recall any IFRA restrictions on its use - I could be wrong about this. Also the main player here, Iso E Super, has only begun to really go mainstream - I predict dry, woody laundry detergents and cleaning products are next on the aroma chemical producer's agendas. Diptyque's recent Patchouli candle has a fragrance that is almost entirely made from IES, and it smells great.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 16th February 2010 at 03:56 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    If you want to believe that ancient Egyptians smelled like Timbuktu, I don't have the desire to argue with you. To learn more about Miglin's Pheromone frags (the men's and women's) all one needs is the old google thingamajig.

    From wikipedia's perfume entry:

    The world's first recorded chemist is considered to be a woman named Tapputi, a perfume maker who was mentioned in a cuneiform tablet from the second millennium BC in Mesopotamia.[1] She distilled flowers, oil, and calamus with other aromatics then filtered and put them back in the still several times.[2]

    Recently, archaeologists have uncovered what are believed to be the world's oldest perfumes in Pyrgos, Cyprus. The perfumes date back more than 4,000 years. The perfumes were discovered in an ancient perfumery. At least 60 stills, mixing bowls, funnels and perfume bottles were found in the 43,000-square-foot (4,000 m2) factory.[3] In ancient times people used herbs and spices, like almond, coriander, myrtle, conifer resin, bergamot, as well as flowers.[4]

    The Arabian chemist, Al-Kindi (Alkindus), wrote in the 9th century a book on perfumes which he named Book of the Chemistry of Perfume and Distillations. It contained more than a hundred recipes for fragrant oils, salves, aromatic waters and substitutes or imitations of costly drugs. The book also described 107 methods and recipes for perfume-making and perfume making equipment, such as the alembic (which still bears its Arabic name).[5]

    The Persian Muslim doctor and chemist Avicenna (also known as Ibn Sina) introduced the process of extracting oils from flowers by means of distillation, the procedure most commonly used today. He first experimented with the rose. Until his discovery, liquid perfumes were mixtures of oil and crushed herbs or petals, which made a strong blend. Rose water was more delicate, and immediately became popular. Both of the raw ingredients and distillation technology significantly influenced western perfumery and scientific developments, particularly chemistry.

    Knowledge of perfumery came to Europe as early as the 14th century due partially to the spread of Islam. But it was the Hungarians who ultimately introduced the first modern perfume. Made of scented oils blended in an alcohol solution, the first modern perfume was made in 1370 at the command of Queen Elizabeth of Hungary and was known throughout Europe as Hungary Water. The art of perfumery prospered in Renaissance Italy, and in the 16th century, Italian refinements were taken to France by Catherine de' Medici's personal perfumer, Rene le Florentin. His laboratory was connected with her apartments by a secret passageway, so that no formulas could be stolen en route. France quickly became the European center of perfume and cosmetic manufacture. Cultivation of flowers for their perfume essence, which had begun in the 14th century, grew into a major industry in the south of France. During the Renaissance period, perfumes were used primarily by the wealthy to mask body odors resulting from infrequent bathing. Partly due to this patronage, the western perfumery industry was created. By the 18th century, aromatic plants were being grown in the Grasse region of France to provide the growing perfume industry with raw materials. Even today, France remains the centre of the European perfume design and trade.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 16th February 2010 at 03:34 AM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    I find resinous frags with a bit of "wetness" to be a lot more interesting, odysseusm. I'd be curious to know what you find compelling. With dry frags, I've recently come to find herbal ones more pleasant and interesting than the woody/incense ones.
    "wetness" is a really interesting concept. When I think of "dry", I saw that as a contrast to sweet or rich. And I don't like sweet or rich scents. Whereas I have not yet found a scent that is too dry. The drier, the leaner, the better. This isn't a fad (for me), it simply is what suits my temperament and taste. In fact, I could care less about fads, as long as I can find scents which interest and appeal to me.
    But "wetness"... this intrigues me. Perhaps a round rather than sharp quality?? I can see the merits of each.
    Herbal -- yes
    Dry resinous wood -- yes.
    I find each to be attractive. A great incense scent does have a certain mystique. And a great herbal scent captures the vitality of nature.
    odysseusm

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  14. #14

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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Supposedly, the Miglin Pheromone for men frag is the closest thing to an ancient Egyptian frag, and it's not like these dry, woody/incense ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    If you want to believe that ancient Egyptians smelled like Timbuktu, I don't have the desire to argue with you.

    From wikipedia's perfume entry:

    The world's first recorded chemist is considered to be a woman named Tapputi, a perfume maker who was mentioned in a cuneiform tablet from the second millennium BC in Mesopotamia.[1] She distilled flowers, oil, and calamus with other aromatics then filtered and put them back in the still several times.[2]

    Recently, archaeologists have uncovered what are believed to be the world's oldest perfumes in Pyrgos, Cyprus. The perfumes date back more than 4,000 years. The perfumes were discovered in an ancient perfumery. At least 60 stills, mixing bowls, funnels and perfume bottles were found in the 43,000-square-foot (4,000 m2) factory.[3] In ancient times people used herbs and spices, like almond, coriander, myrtle, conifer resin, bergamot, as well as flowers.[4]

    The Arabian chemist, Al-Kindi (Alkindus), wrote in the 9th century a book on perfumes which he named Book of the Chemistry of Perfume and Distillations. It contained more than a hundred recipes for fragrant oils, salves, aromatic waters and substitutes or imitations of costly drugs. The book also described 107 methods and recipes for perfume-making and perfume making equipment, such as the alembic (which still bears its Arabic name).[5]

    The Persian Muslim doctor and chemist Avicenna (also known as Ibn Sina) introduced the process of extracting oils from flowers by means of distillation, the procedure most commonly used today. He first experimented with the rose. Until his discovery, liquid perfumes were mixtures of oil and crushed herbs or petals, which made a strong blend. Rose water was more delicate, and immediately became popular. Both of the raw ingredients and distillation technology significantly influenced western perfumery and scientific developments, particularly chemistry.

    Knowledge of perfumery came to Europe as early as the 14th century due partially to the spread of Islam. But it was the Hungarians who ultimately introduced the first modern perfume. Made of scented oils blended in an alcohol solution, the first modern perfume was made in 1370 at the command of Queen Elizabeth of Hungary and was known throughout Europe as Hungary Water. The art of perfumery prospered in Renaissance Italy, and in the 16th century, Italian refinements were taken to France by Catherine de' Medici's personal perfumer, Rene le Florentin. His laboratory was connected with her apartments by a secret passageway, so that no formulas could be stolen en route. France quickly became the European center of perfume and cosmetic manufacture. Cultivation of flowers for their perfume essence, which had begun in the 14th century, grew into a major industry in the south of France. During the Renaissance period, perfumes were used primarily by the wealthy to mask body odors resulting from infrequent bathing. Partly due to this patronage, the western perfumery industry was created. By the 18th century, aromatic plants were being grown in the Grasse region of France to provide the growing perfume industry with raw materials. Even today, France remains the centre of the European perfume design and trade.
    Please connect the Miglin Pheromone for Men dots here for me.
    Last edited by TwoRoads; 16th February 2010 at 03:34 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    If you want to believe that ancient Egyptians smelled like Timbuktu, I don't have the desire to argue with you.
    First of all I never said that ancient Egyptians smelled like Timbuktu... According to my research, the earliest known temple perfume in Egypt was composed of Myrrh Resin and Cassia bark. That's pretty dry incense smell to me. I was not meaning to argue with you, just contributing to the conversation. Forgive me if my tone seemed argumentative, it was not intended to be.
    Last edited by mrclmind; 16th February 2010 at 03:40 AM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    If by dry / woody oriental we are talking about CDG Incense Series + Timbuktu / Dzonkha / Epic et al. maybe even LADDM, then I think it's fair to say many of them were designed to evoke a 'timeless' (and in many instances, austere) mood - cathedrals and temples, the desert etc. and similarly the Pallisanders, Sequoias and Hinokis of the world reference trees, which have been around for a while . . .

    I bought Kyoto the year it was released and have worn it once or twice a year since, Dzongkha a little more when I bought it but less so now . . . I guess I fall into the 'like it when I'm in the mood for it category' for this genre but like most genres of anything I imagine in 10 or 20 years time you will find a handful of survivors that become 'classics' and the rest will have disappeared.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Even at this early state, it seems like they are still quite popular here. For whatever reason, though, they don't seem to get as much attention as other types. Anyone have thoughts about that?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    I'm not a huge fan of frankincense in fragrances, not as I'd thought I would be when I first started this hobby. I loved burning frankincense, and oh, what a thrill it was to find the remarkable smell-alike Avignon. Yet, there hasn't been a single frankincense fragrance I've been motivated enough to buy a full bottle of. It's a note I enjoy a lot initially but tire of quickly in a full wearing.

    As for the general woody-incense clan, they're too diverse to generalize about, in my opinion.
    Last edited by Sugandaraja; 16th February 2010 at 04:09 AM.

  19. #19

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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Imho I don't think the dry, woody/incense fad is over. Kouros still seems to sell quite well in many parts of the world.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galamb_Borong View Post
    As for the general woody-incense clan, they're too diverse to generalize about, in my opinion.
    That's a very excellent point.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    I'm talking about the really dry ones that are rather simple. Kouros definitely does not fit this category.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    Even at this early state, it seems like they are still quite popular here. For whatever reason, though, they don't seem to get as much attention as other types. Anyone have thoughts about that?
    Probably because most everyone here has tried them, commented on them, etc. I think the aoud boat has taken over the lead lately.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    I think the aoud boat has taken over the lead lately.
    Is that fad going to be over anytime soon?
    Last edited by mrclmind; 16th February 2010 at 04:19 AM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    If you consider M7 an oud frag, my guess is that there will continue to be plenty of discussion here. Even without M7, others are talked about often, such as Montale's Black Aoud. The simple, dry, woody/incense ones don't seem to have that kind of standard bearer frag, however. It seems to me that vetiver and oud heavy frags garner a lot more interest, at least over the last few years, if we classify these as more unusual or at least less appealing to "average" folks. Gourmands, fougeres, orientals, etc. of course get more attention.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 16th February 2010 at 04:29 AM.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    I still love Timbuktu.
    Yes, I'm there with Timbuktu appreciation, but I've got to agree with Bigsly's observation and the principle of his question. I really dug Visit when it came out, but now I sure don't wear it.

    Also I've got to agree with Bigsly that there's nothing wrong with participating in and enjoying a "fad." Without that, without wonder at something that seems nifty, where would we be and how would we spur ourselves to try living something new for a while?

    I have Kyoto and Zagorsk from the CdG incense line. I particularly love Zagorsk, but others seem to love Kyoto on me more. I save both for more special occasions. So I still like those and Timbuktu, but I don't go for Visit anymore.
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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    Is that fad going to be over anytime soon?
    Not until Axe Aoud.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by DustB View Post
    Yes, I'm there with Timbuktu appreciation, but I've got to agree with Bigsly's observation and the principle of his question. I really dug Visit when it came out, but now I sure don't wear it.

    Also I've got to agree with Bigsly that there's nothing wrong with participating in and enjoying a "fad." Without that, without wonder at something that seems nifty, where would we be and how would we spur ourselves to try living something new for a while?

    I have Kyoto and Zagorsk from the CdG incense line. I particularly love Zagorsk, but others seem to love Kyoto on me more. I save both for more special occasions. So I still like those and Timbuktu, but I don't go for Visit anymore.
    The idea of a dry incense/wood smell is always going to be attractive to certain people, as it does drum up some ideas of ancient temples, churches, and the like; however, there are actually very few commercial scents within this genre that I personally find all that satisfying (Timbuktu is among the few winners in my opinion). In fact, with a few high-quality essential oils, it would be possible to create a much less expensive fragrance at home that is equally appealing as some of the offerings that have come out in the recent past.

    However, there are a few composed commercial fragrances in the dry incense/wood category that I feel will stand the test of time while the rest will disappear into obscurity.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galamb_Borong View Post
    Not until Axe Aoud.
    LAUGHING my A*S off!!

  29. #29

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Oh, to follow up on the "wet" vs. "dry" thing, I'd call Messe de Minuit a "wet resinous" incense frag, for example. There's no wood in it, though the patchouli is strong. I know some think of patchouli as wood-like, but I don't perceive this treatment of patchouli as "woody" in any way, but that may have to do with it being somewhat "wet."

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    First of all, citing wikipedia as a credible source in an argument is just a bad move. A little research shows that there are errors in the wiki article.

    For instance, the wiki article states "In ancient times people used herbs and spices, like almond, coriander, myrtle, conifer resin, bergamot, as well as flowers.[4]". The webpage that the wiki article cites and where the information was taken almost verbatim states ". . . but these are fresher ones, smelling of herbs and spices, like almond, coriander, myrtle, conifer resin, bergamot — and not flowers," http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...ce/archaeology

    Secondly, it seems that ancient perfumes that were used in Mesopotamia (and were likely items of trade within the civilizations within the Near East) were incense-y type frags as the article in American Journal of Archaeology, (Vol. 104, No. 2 (Apr., 2000), pp. 277-308) "The Production of Perfumes in Antiquity: The Cases of Delos and Paestum" by Jean-Pierre Brun indicates.

    "Administrative archives from the 18th century B.C. show that a Lit raqqu (perfume maker) named Nfir-ili received filtered sesame oil and delivered scented oils in return.2 The scented oils were aromatized with myrtle, cypress, opopanax, odorous reed, and some oils that remain a mystery: supalum and tamrirum oils, and oil of Mari. These tablets document the use of several fragrant plants, including galbanum (from the umbelliferae family), storax (which produces a balsam used as a pungent-smelling fixative), and labdanum which is derived from various species of rockrose." http://www.jstor.org/stable/507452


    Furthermore, page 48 of "An Ancient Egyptian Herbal" by Egyptologist Dr. Lise Manniche describes a popular Egyptian perfume made in the city of Mende which consisted of "balanos oil, myrrh and resin (Pliny, NH XIII.ii)" Ms Manniche then describes another conconction called Metopion that was made up of "the oil of bitter almonds and unripe olives scented with cardmon, sweet rush, sweet flag, honey, wine, myrrh, seed of balsamum, galbanum and turpentine resin . . .the best Metopion smelt more of cardmon and myrrh than of galbanum (p50)."

    Having smelt Miglin Pheromone (I'm wearing a small amount as I write) I can hazard a pretty good guess that ancient Egyptian perfumes smelt NOTHING like this bland, very late twentieth century concoction.
    Last edited by surreality; 16th February 2010 at 05:45 AM.
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  31. #31

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    I'll be the first to admit that I did not want to spend an hour doing research on a topic that wasn't really relevant, because the idea of a perfume "fad" lasting from ancient Egypt to today's "West" is so ridiculous that I just didn't want to get insulting about it. That said, if you think a claim on wikipedia is wrong, then go ahead and make your argument. Your statement makes it sound like there is more false than true information on it, which is difficult to believe when it comes to this kind of information (historical and not politically relevant today). If you are correct, then the same could likely be said about most history textbooks. In any case, your citation does not make it sound like the modern frags I mentioned anyway. But if the claim was that these kinds of frags are naturally pleasant to most people, the clear facts are indisputably against it. Another thing is certainly true, and that is that your sense of smell is very different from many who consider themselves frag aficionados, because most of the reviews of that Miglin frag (here and elsewhere) talk about it as very strong and anything but "bland."

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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Incense is the dark haired lady of mystery who, clad in silk moves effortlessly behind the open door of passion and intrique beguiling your entry with sultry airs of the far east.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    I'll be the first to admit that I did not want to spend an hour doing research on a topic that wasn't really relevant, because the idea of a perfume "fad" lasting from ancient Egypt to today's "West" is so ridiculous that I just didn't want to get insulting about it.
    When I originally mentioned ancient Egypt and Nefertum, I was attempting to illustrate a point (and failing miserably by the looks of it). Obviously there is not an unbroken tradition of perfume from ancient Egypt to modern niche houses. I figured that was self-evident. I was simply attempting to point out that people have been drawn to these kinds of smells throughout the ages. There is a primitive zeitgeist that this type of scent seems to tap into. I was responding to your comment "time will tell if they are timeless." People have been burning Frankincense, Myrrh and aromatic woods for centuries. From my point of view that points to some evidence that these sorts of fragrance profiles could easily be considered timeless already. As this fad dies out in the fragrance houses, many will continue to be attracted to these types of scents as they have been for centuries. The niche market didn't create incense and woods. Many people on these boards in fact have been burning frankincense and myrrh on charcoals long before many of these houses were even in business. So, that's my point: Incense is a timeless scent. Dry incense and woods is as timeless as it gets when it comes to perfume. Egypt was just a symbol of how these perfumes "hearken back to something ancient." It appears my symbolism was incoherent.
    Last edited by mrclmind; 16th February 2010 at 09:03 AM.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    It might be over for some of the mainstream frags to cease woody/incense frags...thus There are soo many people and "frags" that are still vigor about Woody/Incense frags...Like me!! Thus I would never say that I'll conclude to this type of scent...Yet I could possibly move on then to recuperate and start from where we left!

    Cheers!

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Haha...Oh and Mrclmind..I got your little Epigram :P
    - I Want To Appreciate You With My Eyes Closed-

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  36. #36

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Back to the present... Hypes are by definition short-lived, no? Incense was once today's aoud, which has replaced it as flavour of the month. I agree with whoever said up there that many of the incense-woody-thingies have proven themselves to be modern classics though; they're just not talked about incessantly as their owners have settled into long-term relationships with them. Me, I still like my Tam Dao & Ouarzazate.
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  37. #37
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    I don't really care about fads. As long as a fragrance smells good, of high quality construction and composition, I say "Spray away...!"

  38. #38
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    I think more of the incense frags will survive than the oud ones, from western houses...

  39. #39
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Xxxxxxx
    Last edited by mrclmind; 16th February 2010 at 08:18 AM.

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    i guess i dont really get the concept of dryness in scents .. for eg. CDG's Incense Series has this moist/cold accord running thru it in Avignon, Kyoto and Zagorsk. Zagorsk could be the only one which could be termed as close to dry. even with L'Air, i find it's sweetness a bit syrupy to be generalised as dry. also Hinoki, i find it to be juicy at first, thereafter wet.

    to my nose; Ambre Russe by Parfums d'Empire, Padparadscha by Satellite, Querelle by Parfumerie Generale et al are dry, wood; incense based scents. im still not over these kinda scents.. i guess it's here to stay.
    Last edited by jenson; 16th February 2010 at 09:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    That said, if you think a claim on wikipedia is wrong, then go ahead and make your argument. Your statement makes it sound like there is more false than true information on it, which is difficult to believe when it comes to this kind of information (historical and not politically relevant today). If you are correct, then the same could likely be said about most history textbooks."
    "If I am correct?" I showed you the incorrect text on wiki, the source that the author(s) of the wiki article link to as a citation for that thext and how the wiki text and the actual article they cite differ (not only differ but are mutually exclusive); in a not so unimportant way. And to jump from a wiki being blatantly wrong on at least one point to claiming that the same can be said about history textbooks is just a very bad inference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    "In any case, your citation does not make it sound like the modern frags I mentioned anyway."
    I never claimed that the ancient formulas smelled like any modern fragrances; that was a claim that you made in post #9 "Supposedly, the Miglin Pheromone for men frag is the closest thing to an ancient Egyptian frag", and it was that point that I was arguing against.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    " But if the claim was that these kinds of frags are naturally pleasant to most people, the clear facts are indisputably against it."
    No, this was not a claim that I made nor intimated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    "Another thing is certainly true, and that is that your sense of smell is very different from many who consider themselves frag aficionados, because most of the reviews of that Miglin frag (here and elsewhere) talk about it as very strong and anything but "bland."
    A fragrance does not have to be weak to be bland; a strong fragrance can be just as insipid and uninteresting as a weak fragrance. The two terms are NOT mutually exclusive. Futhermore, "bland" is a subjective term; what you or I find bland may not be what another finds bland and vice versa. So to claim that I must have a poor sense of smell (and then imply that what I have to say is of little value) because I do not agree with other basenoter's claims that Miglin Phermone is not bland is just a bad argument (and also a use of an informal fallacy, which just compounds its "badness").
    Last edited by surreality; 16th February 2010 at 07:37 PM.
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  42. #42

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclmind View Post
    Is that fad going to be over anytime soon?
    It's interesting how fads/trends are recycled so quickly in the high speed world we live in now. 25 ago, when I started working in the fashion industry, big shoulder pads, slim skirts, and hard lines were the only look, then Giorgio Armani came along, ripped out the pads and the structure and made everyone look like they were relaxed, confident and androgynous, a true revolution. In the reactionary 90s, the late 50s, feminine stereotypes re-emerged, girlie looks ruled with a vengeance, and reached the ultimate expression of degradation in the personification of Monica Lewinsky. All that behind us, we thought, we arrived in the 2000s and all of a sudden, every trend that ever existed came back simultaneously. Short skirts, long skirts, boob jobs, preppy, lounge music, rock, Mad Men, Oceans Eleven, giant shoulder pads, and on and on. The only common factors were hype and cultural amnesia.
    I think a fad is only as good as the ideas behind it. Aoud is being used in so many different levels of the fragrance ingredient industry, some are smart and some are banal. Forget about trends as they don't exist anymore, there are only two things that create popularity: big budgets and word of mouth. I prefer the word of mouth, viral, no budget approach as it's most often generated by actual human interest.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 16th February 2010 at 06:37 PM.

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
    It's interesting how fads/trends are recycled so quickly in the high speed world we live in now. 25 ago, when I started working in the fashion industry, big shoulder pads, slim skirts, and hard lines were the only look, then Giorgio Armani came along, ripped out the pads and the structure and made everyone look like they were relaxed, confident and androgynous, a true revolution. In the reactionary 90s, the late 50s, feminine stereotypes re-emerged, girlie looks ruled with a vengeance, and reached the ultimate expression of degradation in the personification of Monica Lewinsky. All that behind us, we thought, we arrived in the 2000s and all of a sudden, every trend that ever existed came back simultaneously. Short skirts, long skirts, boob jobs, preppy, lounge music, rock, Mad Men, Oceans Eleven, giant shoulder pads, and on and on. The only common factors were hype and cultural amnesia.
    I think a fad is only as good as the ideas behind it. Aoud is being used in so many different levels of the fragrance ingredient industry, some are smart and some are banal. Forget about trends as they don't exist anymore, there are only two things that create popularity: big budgets and word of mouth. I prefer the word of mouth, viral, no budget approach as it's most often generated by actual human interest.
    It's interesting to read this. I think there is definitely a parallel in the music of the past decade. If anyone who misses the music of their youth, they just aren't looking hard enough, as good '60s, '70s, '80s and so forth music is being made now. There's a widespread polystylism if you look beyond the top ten of pop, and even there you see incursions from different styles and past decades.

  44. #44

    Default Re: Is the dry, woody/incense fad over now? POLL.

    I think Timbuktu and Kyoto are timeless masterpieces, and I can't imagine ever tiring of those two. Is it an over-copied genre? Probably.

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