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  1. #1

    Default Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    Just a fairly light hearted beginners question before I waste any time.

    I have got a mini of Celine coming in the post as part of a job lot. I have read the rotten reviews and just wondered that if it had no scent but alcohol, is this sort of thing even worth considering using as an alcohol base for 'alterations' with something strong like Patchouli, or is the bin the best place for such things?

    If perfumers alcohol is so difficult and expensive to obtain... Is fragrance alteration even worth considering, if a cheap and weak base fragrance could be found with relatively pleasant, innocuous notes?

  2. #2
    Dimitrios's Avatar
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    Default Re: Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    Keep it mumsy , why throw it away when you can experiment with it .
    I have found that many EDT's can take a small percentage of essential oil & in most cases alters it sufficiently .
    I have done this often & my next step will be to sourc synthetics .
    Is the Patchouli you are planning on using a natural or synthetic ?
    I recomend you eventually get some perfumers alcohol or high content vodka to add to the fun .
    keep experimenting
    cheers

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  3. #3

    Default Re: Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    I'm planning on doctoring some of my TM Alien, I ADORE the scent but would like a bit more vanilla for a base note so I'm going to make up a 1ml sample size of it and add 1 drop of 10% diluted vanilla and see what happens. Nothing wrong with playing IMO. Celine isn't that bad, it didn't last that long and is very floral but see what you can do with it. You can get perfumer's alcohol from snowdriftfarm.com that's where I'm ordering it from...not sure if they ship to GB though.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    Or use "cosmetisch haarwater" from www.hekserij.nl. It is not at the international pricelist, but it will be shipped to the UK. Less than 7 GBP a liter.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    Perfumer's Alcohol is really nothing special. I use Everclear (thankfully I can buy it where I live).

    I wouldn't use a bad fragrance for its alcohol. I don't see the point. When I started doing DIY perfumery, I used vodka. It wasn't very good because it's 60% water and 40% alcohol. My blends were very cloudy and didn't dissolve. If there's any way you can get your hands on something like Everclear, you'll be all set. Everclear is really ideal-- special denatured alcohols contain agents which are sometimes bitter and can actually impact the profile of your fragrance.

    On that topic, it bugs me sometimes when I go into a store to buy a few bottles of Everclear, people sometimes give me weird looks like I'm a hardcore alcoholic-- if they only knew what I was using it for!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    Both my Patchoulis say 100% pure essential oil, so I assume that means they are natural. Interestingly, they both smell very slightly different as they are from two different places. This I suppose just adds to all the fun.

    So far I only have fractionated coconut oil, as yet I haven't used it, but have been experimenting with various drops of this and that whenever I run a bath. Especially when running one for stinky teenagers. I did a lovely one the other day with Patchouli, vetiver, cinnamon, ylang ylang, cedarwood and black pepper. I think I would like to try this first as a perfume or after shave as the bath smelt divine.

    What is the perceptable difference between the Everclear, the Perfumers alcohol, the haarwater and the vodka in the final product? Has anyone used all of these with the same frag mix to see? Is it better to start with the coconut oil, or is it just a matter of preference and availablility? Sorry, rather a few questions there.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    There are two factors in the difference between the alcoholic bases:
    - The own smell of the base
    - The percentage alcohol

    To start with the last: you need at least 90% / 180 proof alcohol, otherwise you can oly solve a very small amount of fragrance compounds.

    The owns smell of the alcohol must be as little as possible and must be acceptable.

    - Everclear seems not to have much of an odor, but is probably only available in the US (in those states where it is allowed)
    - Perfumers alcohol is not in every country available to homecrafters, and also for businesses there ususaly is a permit system, so a lot of paperwork. The alcohol itself is of course fine to use.
    - Cosmetisch haarwater (cosmetic hair water) has a faint bergamot odor, usualy not a problem. I only have seen it in shops in The Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Switserland and Austria.
    - Vodka is usualy not a good choise, the level of alcohol is usualy around 40-50%, that is not strong enough. In case you could buy vodka with 90% alcohol and only a faint not disturbing odor it would probably be usable, but very expensive.

    - Because Everclear is a US product, Haarwater a German product, Vodka and perfumers have many varieties. I don't think anyone was even able to compare these options.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    Thank you. That is really fab. I have found a seller of Perfumers alcohol here.
    It's quite pricy at 12.96 for 500mls, up to 34.05 for 5L and is a mix of ethanol, isopropyl myristate and MPG.
    Does that sound like the right stuff and is the price in line with yours?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    I've also found Benzyl alcohol at 99+% as a head lice treatment... hmmmn nice!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    Again it depends on the concentrations. In case the perfumersalcohol is mainly ethanol (= alcohol) and IPM and MPG are only added in small amounts as a denaturant I think it is probably a good base. When it is for instance only 50% ethanol the lift of the fragrances will be lower than with pure alcohol.

    Benzylalcohol is usable as a fragrance ingredient, not as a carrier.
    Last edited by janmeut; 26th February 2010 at 05:37 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Using a bad frag for it's alcohol..... beginners question

    I've ordered it, so we will see. I did have to order quite a lot though. I had better get mixing....

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