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  1. #1

    Default Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    I was in the Creed Boutique in NYC today and the sales associate told me that Windsor will return this fall in a flacon - only 100 will be produced and sold at the NYC store only. He showed me the waiting list and it looked like about 30 names so far. The price is around $605 if I recall. Got to smell it too and it's amazing but my bankbook can't handle it. He also said that their new scent, Wood and Spices, is due around the same time.
    Last edited by MikeNY; 16th April 2010 at 01:43 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    It's an odd scent to me mike. I'm glad I got the atomizer, but I am happy I didn't get a flacon. While I like it a lot, it's not the kind of scent I find myself able to wear very often.

    If it intrigues you, I'd advise looking for a split, or someone who will sell a fairly sizeable decant.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Wood and Spices sounds like a Montale-type name.

    Too bad they won't bring back Feuille Verte.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNY911 View Post
    I was in the Creed Boutique in NYC today and the sales associate told me that Windsor will return this fall in a flacon - only 100 will be produced and sold at the NYC store only. He showed me the waiting list and it looked like about 30 names so far. The price is around $650 if I recall. Got to smell it too and it's amazing but my bankbook can't handle it. He also said that their new scent, Wood and Spices, is due around the same time.
    Interesting marketing strategy. Wasn't this one of those "limited amounts were made" Creeds? If you keep bringing out more of your limited run products, doesn't that diminish some of their appeal?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Zizanioides View Post
    Interesting marketing strategy. Wasn't this one of those "limited amounts were made" Creeds? If you keep bringing out more of your limited run products, doesn't that diminish some of their appeal?
    It's a bit odd, yes. Creed is taking some new directions which I find interesting. I could second guess a lot of reasons why they will have 100 more to sell in fall 2010, but it's not worth the energy right now.

    I'll risk the wrath of the "Creed haters" and say I like some of what they're doing with these limited scents. It strikes me that this is not where they'll make their big money. Yes, they'll make a tidy profit on those 100 flacons, but nothing compared to what they probably make with their three or four best selling scents.

    My experience with Windsor is that it is indeed top quality, high end perfumery. I think these limited editions are way more for lunatics like us than the general consumer. The average Basenoter may not like Windsor scent, question it's "history" or think it's not worth the money. But I doubt many would question that it is first rate perfumery.
    Last edited by StylinLA; 21st March 2010 at 12:13 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Agree about the quality, etc. on the juice. But the flacon thing is deliberate "luxury" marketing. If they were really interested in making it available they would have it in a variety of smaller sizes. It seems a rather deliberate us vs. them mentality.
    odysseusm

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  7. #7

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by odysseusm View Post
    Agree about the quality, etc. on the juice. But the flacon thing is deliberate "luxury" marketing. If they were really interested in making it available they would have it in a variety of smaller sizes. It seems a rather deliberate us vs. them mentality.
    I for one would sure prefer that it was available in smaller units, even if jacked up in price per ml. With so many frags, I don't like the "pressure" and long term commitment of 8.4 oz.
    Last edited by StylinLA; 21st March 2010 at 12:57 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    I've yet to still even try this... the notes sound cool, but the fact that they're going the $650 route.... too rich for my tastes.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    It`s so excited with the new "wood and Spices"!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    They could make as much of this as they wanted to and I have no doubt they would make a hefty profit even at the regular Creed price. It's purely a marketing thing, as Ody said. Also I'll be the spoilsport here and say that somehing so heavy on lyral and other ubiquitous synthetics and with such a short-lived and ghostly, albeit nice, drydown doesn't register as high-end perfumery with me. It should be natural and short-lived or smell natural and be longlived, or even smell obviously part-synthetic and be longlived, but this, in terms of construction, is a trainwreck to my nose. I recently tried some Xerjoffs: far-out pricing, some ultra-ugly flacons for nouveau-riche Russians, but that aside, incredibly high-quality essences, and some of them are masterful creations as well (looking at you, Kobe, an incredible long-lasting resinous neroli). I'm thinking that some Fleurs de Bulgarie (a really good, straightforward rose) layered with the exciting pine and cedar of the just recently discovered (by me) Patyka Boisé could out-Windsor Windsor.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    It would be arrogant of me to say I am immune to hype, but I do tend and try to judge fragrances by their own merit. Whether in 60, 100, or 5000 flacons, Windsor is a first-class fragrance. Too expensive if you don't like it [enough]. Priced right if you like it enough. The only Creed which I find even better than (or almost the same as) Windsor is the quasi-ubiquitous GIT, regardless of the fact that it is much more accessible and affordable. If SMW or Himalaya were $25, they would be too expensive for me. (No offense.)

    I wonder... if GIT was marketed like Windsor and Windsor was marketed like GIT... what would people think of them then? (-:

    Question for BN-ers such as Dullah and others who have a nose more experienced than mine: are there any expensive components in Windsor which, while not "justifying" at least can explain the higher price-range, besides marketing? I wonder whether the "secret" of Windsor consists not in the "freshening" of the rose note with other elements, but in the extraordinary quality of the rose component itself? Would that be created from scratch by Creed or just bought from somewhere? Just curious.
    Last edited by Addict; 21st March 2010 at 12:44 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Random aside - I was at the store smelling some deodorants with my g/f and sniffed the Secret "Green Euphoria" for women scented stick and it really called to mind Windsor. Lots of green and a similar cedar note, too.

    It was odd to smell Windsor in a $3 stick of women's deodorant.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Wood and Spices. . . yes, yes, can't wait.

    Windsor: nice, but not the knock-your-socks-off experience I was hoping for at this level of price and presentation. This is heresy to many BN fans, but: I would be interested in sniffing the new release of this to see if it's any different from the juice I purchased. To me, it's very close to being a "wow." I'd like it if it were adjusted just a bit. Middle notes could be turned up a little, and it could use a more solid base. Of course, that would substantially alter it. Maybe call it "Windsor Intense"? Har har. . .

  14. #14

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    Random aside - I was at the store smelling some deodorants with my g/f and sniffed the Secret "Green Euphoria" for women scented stick and it really called to mind Windsor. Lots of green and a similar cedar note, too.

    It was odd to smell Windsor in a $3 stick of women's deodorant.
    Funny. It reminds me a little of Ben-Gay. Not kidding about that. I'm sure this observation enrages some hard-core Windsor fans, but. . . just sayin. . .

  15. #15

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcologneguy View Post
    Wood and Spices. . . yes, yes, can't wait.

    Windsor: nice, but not the knock-your-socks-off experience I was hoping for at this level of price and presentation.
    Agreed about Wood and Spices.

    About Windsor: that was exactly my reaction on first sniff. "Why should this be so damn expensive?" Not now.

    I think that your reservation is inadvertently also a compliment. It is not supposed to be a knock-your-socks-off experience. It walks a fine line between being noticeable (unmistakable) and being discreet.

    It could have had "discretion is the better part of valour" inscribed on the bottle. ( :

  16. #16

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcologneguy View Post
    Funny. It reminds me a little of Ben-Gay. Not kidding about that. I'm sure this observation enrages some hard-core Windsor fans, but. . . just sayin. . .
    Well, Windsor smells far more refined to my nose, but still I did pick up on a similar vibe at least. Maybe this could work as a 'matching' deodorant to wear with Windsor for those who feels it smells somewhat similar.

    Tbh I like Windsor and think it's a good if not great scent. It's just a bit too aloof for me. I like scents that conjure up images of exotic, surreal or even just vividly realistic landscapes - something that paints a clear picture in my minds eye. All I get from Windsor in that regard is the detached image of aristocracy.
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Windsor might not be using he most expensive ingredients. It might not be the best work of art. But whoever has tried it, needs to look at the competition as well. I can bet you it would still have cost Creed more to produce one flacon of Windsor than it cost Tom Ford to produce one each of all 14 of his Private Collection. It wouldn't seem that expensive if you compare it to the current competition.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    All I get from Windsor in that regard is the detached image of aristocracy.
    Very well-stated. I'm pretty sure that's the perfumer's intent, too. In that regard, Windsor is a smash.

    I don't get quite the formal vibe, more a relaxed elegance feel. Works well in that sense.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    My question to those of you who have previously bought Windsor flacons: does it bother you that the number of flacons on the market will be increasing, consequently making the flacons a bit less scarce than when you purchased yours?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by scentsitivity View Post
    My question to those of you who have previously bought Windsor flacons: does it bother you that the number of flacons on the market will be increasing, consequently making the flacons a bit less scarce than when you purchased yours?
    Certainly agree with this sentiment. One would hope that Creed would change the packaging just a bit, so the original buyers could at least have verifiable "first edition" bragging rights.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by scentsitivity View Post
    My question to those of you who have previously bought Windsor flacons: does it bother you that the number of flacons on the market will be increasing, consequently making the flacons a bit less scarce than when you purchased yours?
    I think it depends on the reason why these buyers made their purchase in the first place.

    If someone bought Windsor for its exclusivity, he is surely going to be disappointed.
    However if someone bought it solely on the merit of the juice, it shouldn't bother him much.

    In my opinion, it is a bit of a letdown to re-release something within months of the debut launch when the USP at the time was that this is one fragrance that will never be made again.

  22. #22
    Mudassir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Ofcourse it bothers me, as I probably would have held off the purchase for a bit if there wasn't the pressure of there are only 70 of these around and once they are gone, they are gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by scentsitivity View Post
    My question to those of you who have previously bought Windsor flacons: does it bother you that the number of flacons on the market will be increasing, consequently making the flacons a bit less scarce than when you purchased yours?
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  23. #23

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcologneguy View Post
    Very well-stated. I'm pretty sure that's the perfumer's intent, too. In that regard, Windsor is a smash.

    I don't get quite the formal vibe, more a relaxed elegance feel. Works well in that sense.
    Definitely agreed. It works excellently in that sense. Perhaps the best of its type. Definitely one of the most unique of the aristocratic frags that I've tried, up there with Ungaro II. Ungaro II speaks more to me though as there is that animalic and decidedly more human - if lustful - side to it.
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  24. #24

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by scentsitivity View Post
    My question to those of you who have previously bought Windsor flacons: does it bother you that the number of flacons on the market will be increasing, consequently making the flacons a bit less scarce than when you purchased yours?
    Speaking only for myself, no. IF it would become $280 a flacon I would feel a little cheated because of paying much more on semi-false pretenses but otherwise the availability of such a nice fragrance doesn't bother me in the least. It's not like millions of teenagers will rush to spend $600+ and you'll smell Windsor everywhere ( :. I wouldn't mind it if Creed made it part of the permanent collection at some point in the future.
    Last edited by Addict; 21st March 2010 at 03:57 PM.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Does anybody remember the beginnings of the old Creed boutique in USA, when the official (not-discounted) price of a 4oz GIT used to be (if memory serves) $120? I remember I thought that was expensive. Little did I know ...

  26. #26

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Addict View Post

    Question for BN-ers such as Dullah and others who have a nose more experienced than mine: are there any expensive components in Windsor which, while not "justifying" at least can explain the higher price-range, besides marketing? I wonder whether the "secret" of Windsor consists not in the "freshening" of the rose note with other elements, but in the extraordinary quality of the rose component itself? Would that be created from scratch by Creed or just bought from somewhere? Just curious.
    Very few perfumes' prices can be justified by their ingredients alone =)
    LT gives an example (which I will now mangle as I don't have the guide at hand); take a nice quality iris root butter that sells for $30k per kilo, dilute 5:1 in perfumer's alcohol and bottle it. You now have the most expensive perfume you can make. Sell it retail at $750 an ounce (about a five times mark up) and there you go.

    Most perfumes are sold for more than a five times mark up (I think); Chandler Burr mentions that most modern perfumes cost around $40-80 per kilogram in ingredients. It's really the skill of the composition you are paying for and hoping you get your money's worth.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Addict View Post
    Speaking only for myself, no. IF it would become $280 a flacon I would feel a little cheated because of paying much more on semi-false pretenses but otherwise the availability of such a nice fragrance doesn't bother me in the least. It's not like millions of teenagers will rush to spend $600+ and you'll smell Windsor everywhere ( :. I wouldn't mind it if Creed made it part of the permanent collection at some point in the future.
    I didn't buy a flacon, but I agree it would be an annoyance if they knocked it down in price from what I paid. If they are only selling 100 more, that hardly seems like "flooding" the market. One question though: do they really only have 100 more to sell? Did they really only have 100 flacons for the first offer.

    I do think there is a limited market for frags at this price point and don't think they sold thousands, but I often wonder if the "limited" number publicized is an artificially low number to spur sales.

    I see that the "limited" offering of Vintage Tabarome atomizers seems to have been depleted.
    Last edited by StylinLA; 21st March 2010 at 04:41 PM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Zizanioides View Post
    It's really the skill of the composition you are paying for and hoping you get your money's worth.
    Yes, that, and the costs of research, development, marketing, distribution, and the convenience of having this stuff somewhat readily available. At all steps of the way somebody needs to make money. The final price represents far more than just the cost of the ingredients.

    And, all that stated, I suspect it's actually fairly easy to lose money in the fragrance business. For every well-documented hit release I am sure there are many thousands of scent marketing plans that don't work out.

    This is part of something I admire about Creed. Family-owned business for 200+ years, good products, and they command top dollar. Any one of us would kill to have such a successful business.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcologneguy View Post
    Yes, that, and the costs of research, development, marketing, distribution, and the convenience of having this stuff somewhat readily available. At all steps of the way somebody needs to make money. The final price represents far more than just the cost of the ingredients.
    True. That I can tell, Creed spends very little on true advertising; i.e. paid for media like print or television ads. Contrast that with the millions some of the designer brands spend launching a frag. That outside media money is a factor in the profitability of the scent (and indicative of the fact that the production costs must be fairly low in order to make a profit).

    If the number of Windsor flacons and atomizers they have sold and will sell is accurate, their gross sales on it are appx $160K. That kind of money is insignificant in terms of placing advertising. in the US.
    Last edited by StylinLA; 21st March 2010 at 05:09 PM.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    "One question though: do they really only have 100 more to sell? Did they really only have 100 flacons for the first offer."

    Actually the first public offer was less than 100 flacons, right? 70 I think?

    I am in no way, shape or form empowered to speak on Creed's behalf but, based on gut instinct, I don't believe they sold publicly more than the initially announced number of flacons. The number of people "crazy" enough to shell $600 is not so big...

    Perhaps they had a limited number of unnumbered, unsold flacons for gifts, for the family, for the "uncommercial" (museum-like) vault or something. I actually believe that they did not make more than 100 total in the first batch. I can personally testify that I have asked about it during a trip to Paris, at the Creed boutique in Paris (honestly I was hoping I might find a slightly cheaper Windsor flacon), and the French representatives (who speak good English) made it very clear they didn't get one single flacon for sale. They actually didn't know how it smelled like.

    Based on more than gut instinct (i.e., on something which actually makes sense), I am certain the new batch of Windsor is actually made now, hence the delay (fall 2010) etc. I don't think they have 100 flacons worth of juice waiting somewhere. Going back to guessing, I believe that part of the reason a second batch of Windsor is being made is that some of the people who got only the atomizer (among 320 of them) asked for a flacon and Creed wants to be nice to its customers, rather than sticking to the "it's back to the vault, that's it, bye!" policy. Of course, this will be also somewhat profitable for them, but I see no reason to resent that, they aren't in the charity business. They offer a product which is in demand, limited and more or less genuinely elitist as this demand may be. Perhaps it would be more disturbing and greedy if, after hundreds of customers paid $405 for a 50 ml atomizer, they would refuse to address the logical expectations of those dozens among them who request the one-time chance of a flacon for refills.

    Honestly, hoopla and hype apart, I can see it as perfectly reasonable that some people would prefer other, cheaper Creeds, or no Creed at all etc. I am really interested in the subject because I happened to like Windsor period. I've smelled more expensive stuff (such as Clive Christian No. 1) and wasn't that enthralled. Not everything which is awfully pricey appeals to me. (I couldn't afford it either.)

    Just some more-or-less-relevant thoughts, take them or leave them.
    Last edited by Addict; 21st March 2010 at 06:31 PM.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Addict View Post
    "I am in no way, shape or form empowered to speak on Creed's behalf but, based on gut instinct, I don't believe they sold publicly more than the initially announced number of flacons. The number of people "crazy" enough to shell $600 is not so big...
    I agree- just playing devil's advocate with the possibility that they had more. I don't know enough about the ins and outs of small batch perfume production to know how exact a science it is. There also may be a "aging" component to Windsor ingredients that caused the delay in this second release.

    The market for $600+ scents in 8.4 oz flacon is I'm sure very small.

  32. #32

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Also I'll be the spoilsport here and say that somehing so heavy on lyral and other ubiquitous synthetics and with such a short-lived and ghostly, albeit nice, drydown doesn't register as high-end perfumery with me [...] I'm thinking that some Fleurs de Bulgarie (a really good, straightforward rose) layered with the exciting pine and cedar of the just recently discovered (by me) Patyka Boisé could out-Windsor Windsor.
    You seem to know what you're taking about. Is Windsor so heavy on average synthetics? Other opinions? To me it doesn't seem like it, but I don't have The Nose of other contributors here so I can tolerate standing corrected.

    Speaking of rose, the rose included in Windsor seems to me much more a relative of the one in Fleurs de The Rose Bulgare than of that in Fleurs de Bulgarie.

    One thing I should mention, I am generally disliking rose oils and rose scents. Even those from L'Artisan, a house which I usually like.

    I also find rose particularly hard to encapsulate and balance in a man's fragrance.

    Hence my admiration for Windsor.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    They could make as much of this as they wanted to and I have no doubt they would make a hefty profit even at the regular Creed price. It's purely a marketing thing, as Ody said. Also I'll be the spoilsport here and say that somehing so heavy on lyral and other ubiquitous synthetics and with such a short-lived and ghostly, albeit nice, drydown doesn't register as high-end perfumery with me. It should be natural and short-lived or smell natural and be longlived, or even smell obviously part-synthetic and be longlived, but this, in terms of construction, is a trainwreck to my nose. I recently tried some Xerjoffs: far-out pricing, some ultra-ugly flacons for nouveau-riche Russians, but that aside, incredibly high-quality essences, and some of them are masterful creations as well (looking at you, Kobe, an incredible long-lasting resinous neroli). I'm thinking that some Fleurs de Bulgarie (a really good, straightforward rose) layered with the exciting pine and cedar of the just recently discovered (by me) Patyka Boisé could out-Windsor Windsor.
    Are you familiar with the rose oil used in Windsor? I am not and hence I wasn't able to even detect it early on. You can't classify it as a cheap synthetic unless you make a comparison with the EO. Dullah is probably the only one here who has played with this particular rose oil and can comment more. I though am familiar with the typical faulty synthy rose combo and this isn't it. The rest of the notes such as cedar, eucalyptus and pine are all great quality - I don't know where you are getting a synthetic vibe from these. If the composition as a whole doesn't work for you then thats different.

    Xerjoff is just an Amouage/Profumum wannabe - I have only tried their Shooting Stars fragrances and while the materials are good they won't knock the eyeballs out; many are actually standard issue yawns. This line will come down to earth soon just like Profumum.
    -

  34. #34

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Addict View Post
    You seem to know what you're taking about. Is Windsor so heavy on average synthetics? Other opinions? To me it doesn't seem like it, but I don't have The Nose of other contributors here so I can tolerate standing corrected.

    Speaking of rose, the rose included in Windsor seems to me much more a relative of the one in Fleurs de The Rose Bulgare than of that in Fleurs de Bulgarie.
    I love Fleur de the Rose Bulgarie, but Windsor seems not to be bulgarian rose, more like a combo of rose de mai, damasc, and tuberose, with some of the resinous aspect of cistus labdinafer (rock rose), which I assume is due to the resinous/balsamic/sticky stems and leafs of the "nuits de young" moss rose variety that the Duke of Windsor was so fond of.

    ^On the syntheticness, I think Good_Life has previously stated his dislike of lyral (hydroxyisohexyl-3-cyclohexene-carboxaldehyde)
    Or perhaps he is allergic to Lyral, which would be unfortuneate.
    Good Life were you allergic or just a strong dislike? Or both?

    I've recently worked with Lyral pure, and it is a very muted and subtle basenote which gives a very unique and fresh, yet heavy and substantive floral/dewy-leaf essence which is present under the whole composition, at each stage.
    It's one of my favorite synthetics.
    it's also very prominent in:
    GIT
    Burberry London
    Versace Dreamer
    Bogart Pour Homme
    and also in significant amounts in
    Erolfa
    Tobacco Vanille
    Terre D'Hermes

    It is a relatively modern synthetic, used in countless feminines, and plenty of masculines too.
    Definitely not around in 1936 LOL

    As for the new flacons, I will buy one, which I properly assume will be in varied packaging with something besides a lack of a signature to denote it being of the second run.
    I am also hoping for the 2nd run to be slightly tweaked a touch more lime and pine, perhaps even just barely more coumarin to balance the cedar.
    I will certainly closely scrutinize and compare, hoping for this "2nd limited edition"(which is such bullsh!t) to be a test for Creed to eventually release a more synthetic, long-lasting version of Windsor as a part of the permanent collection. But perhaps I am expecting too much, and creed is just whipping up another batch of windsor to cash in on those who missed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    I was at the store smelling some deodorants with my g/f and sniffed the Secret "Green Euphoria" for women scented stick and it really called to mind Windsor.
    Will try for sure next trip to the store.

    Another one I'm geeked to try, hoping it isn't derivative of the montale sharing the name, is Woods & Spices.

  35. #35

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    Are you familiar with the rose oil used in Windsor? I am not and hence I wasn't able to even detect it early on. You can't classify it as a cheap synthetic unless you make a comparison with the EO. Dullah is probably the only one here who has played with this particular rose oil and can comment more. I though am familiar with the typical faulty synthy rose combo and this isn't it. The rest of the notes such as cedar, eucalyptus and pine are all great quality - I don't know where you are getting a synthetic vibe from these. If the composition as a whole doesn't work for you then thats different.
    I have played with many rose absolutes and oils, and am on the same page as you when it comes to the usual synthetic/sour synthetic rose accord, which is too prominent in almost every masculine-rose-scent touted here on basenotes, most specifically Caraceni 1913 and Lyric man. I myself was never too fond of wearing rose-prominent, but windsor changed that quickly, and pushed me to buy more rose oils and more supporting floral synthetics. Good life was one who hipped my curiosity to several.

    I've not yet not played with Nuits De Young Rose oil, although I am growing this variety this year and will make a small amount of absolute of aerial parts, and a seperate one of the roots, along with the same treatment for another floral creed made me grow, Cupani sweet pea.

  36. #36

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Hi Dullah, thanks for your fascinating insights. I have never "played" with "base" materials myself, I am a mere amateur, so I defer to your obvious competence. All I meant, in all humility, was that the *impression* conveyed by Windsor's rose-note was more compatible (not similar, of course) with Fleurs de The Rose Bulgare than with Fleurs de Bulgarie. "Cool" rose, rather than "warm," too sweet and overpowering "French woman perfume" rose, in which field, by the way, Fantasia de Fleurs smells less "dated" and more pleasant than Fleurs de Bulgarie, which seems just heavy to me. (The reason I even know these scents is Creed gifts made to female friends and all that.)

    Not trying to flatter you, but I think you have a fantastic nose, and I agree with many of your reviews, to the last detail.

    Are you employed by a perfume house? If not, you should be.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    For what it's worth, when the S/A told me about the re-release of Windsor, he told me it takes about 4 months to make a batch.

  38. #38

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    If you have a question about Windsor, Dullah may know more than Oliver Creed frankly.

    He IS a treasure if you're a Windsor fan and your worst nightmare if you wish to attack it.
    Last edited by StylinLA; 21st March 2010 at 09:42 PM.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by StylinLA View Post
    If you have a question about Windsor, Dullah may know more than Oliver Creed frankly.
    Dullah I know. Dullah I respect.

    Who's this Oliver Creed fellow?

  40. #40

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by StylinLA View Post
    If you have a question about Windsor, Dullah may know more than Oliver Creed frankly.

    He IS a treasure if you're a Windsor fan and your worst nightmare if you wish to attack it.
    What are you talking about?
    I have utmost respect for The_Good_Life's nose as we share so much in our tastes for fine, natural, edc-style citrus scents.
    I have PM'd good life more than once asking his opinion of scents which i could not acquire samples for, and wanted to know more prior to buying blind.
    His disliking of Windsor is more than valid if indeed my memory is correct about him posting of an allergic reaction to Lyral.
    And is still valid if he simply has a dislike for Lyral. I myself think it is one of the more versatile and useful unisex floral notes out there, but i will not tell anyone what to like for themselves. No one besides me needs to like Windsor. Well, a few more to support sales of it I guess. LOL

  41. #41

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by DULLAH View Post
    As for the new flacons, I will buy one, which I properly assume will be in varied packaging with something besides a lack of a signature to denote it being of the second run.
    I am also hoping for the 2nd run to be slightly tweaked a touch more lime and pine, perhaps even just barely more coumarin to balance the cedar.
    I will certainly closely scrutinize and compare, hoping for this "2nd limited edition"(which is such bullsh!t) to be a test for Creed to eventually release a more synthetic, long-lasting version of Windsor as a part of the permanent collection.
    Oh, come on, you know that if you want a different Windsor, you can modify it yourself. You seem to be up to it and quite competent regarding it. (No sarcasm.)

    For us poor consumerist, rather than creative folks, we can only hope Creed shows more consistency with Windsor than with Millesime Imperial - the 2000-ish batches, when fresh, smelled A LOT better than the recent (not better) stuff. I got some MI and went: WHAT??

    . . . . I only want the "new" Windsor not to smell worse/different than what we know. I can't expect it to be nuanced towards my imaginary improvements.
    Last edited by Addict; 22nd March 2010 at 02:39 PM.

  42. #42

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Addict View Post
    Oh, come on, you know that if you want a different Windsor, you can modify it yourself. You seem to be up to it and quite competent regarding it. (No sarcasm.)
    I have not sourced any Pine which smells as dark or as dry as the Pine Creed has used in it's fragrances. Perhaps I should look into what makes up pine more and expand my materials. Thanks for the hudge.

    And as for my posts intent, it is more if anything a nudge to others.

  43. #43

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Just kidding Dullah. Your knowledge and analysis of Windsor is without peer.

    Windsor, while very nicely executed, is not a scent everyone will love.

  44. #44

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by StylinLA View Post
    Windsor, while very nicely executed, is not a scent everyone will love.
    So true.

    Isn't that wonderful, though?

    Great things are not supposed to be uncontroversial.

  45. #45

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    I do react negatively to Windsor (headache), though it is not the Lyral, or I would be long dead with all the perfume sniffing I've done. In fact, I kind of like the smell of pure lyral, it's a lot more subtle than Windsor . So I dislike Windsor personally, but that was not my point in the previous post. I personally dislike vintage Mitsouko, but nonetheless respect it as a great perfume. I know these levels of evaluation are almost imnpossible to hold apart, and my perception of Windsor is undoubtedly biased by the fact that I have been preoccupied in the last months with natural perfumes and highly natural vintage perfumes, which has further increased my sensitivity to the behavior (especially the intensity curve and pungency) of synthetics. As discussed in the other, long, Windsor thread, Windsor contains, besides Lyral, Lilial, Folione and ionones, which are certainly key in producing the green, violet-leafy, cucumbery and other floral effects. Those are the declared synthetics, there are probably others. And from my perception the natural essences in Windsor are unduly dominated by these synthetics in a manner by no means unusual in contemporary perfumery, but, to my mind, inacceptable in a perfume of this price. That is a criterion most people will not share, nor will their perception of the matter even necessarily be the same. Needless to say I have the greatest respect for Dullah's knowledge and opinions and I do not wish in any way to scoff at anyone's enjoyment of this fragrance. As I said before, I can see the beauty in Windsor. But it can't hurt to look at the issue from a variety of perspectives and I admit I can't resist the urge to demystify Creed's unbearable PR chatter, whether on the Duke of Windsor, the supposed rarity of certain essences, or other flights of fantasy in perfume history.
    Last edited by the_good_life; 22nd March 2010 at 10:03 AM.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  46. #46

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Good_Life, could you please give us some examples of male rose-centered parfums which would be in your opinion better and/or closer to being completely natural than W. ? Thanks.

  47. #47

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    I do react negatively to Windsor (headache), though it is not the Lyral, or I would be long dead with all the perfume sniffing I've done. In fact, I kind of like the smell of pure lyral, it's a lot more subtle than Windsor . So I dislike Windsor personally, but that was not my point in the previous post. I personally dislike vintage Mitsouko, but nonetheless respect it as a great perfume. I know these levels of evaluation are almost imnpossible to hold apart, and my perception of Windsor is undoubtedly biased by the fact that I have been preoccupied in the last months with natural perfumes and highly natural vintage perfumes, which has further increased my sensitivity to the behavior (especially the intensity curve and pungency) of synthetics. As discussed in the other, long, Windsor thread, Windsor contains, besides Lyral, Lilial, Folione and ionones, which are certainly key in producing the green, violet-leafy, cucumbery and other floral effects. Those are the declared synthetics, there are probably others. And from my perception the natural essences in Windsor are unduly dominated by these synthetics in a manner by no means unusual in contemporary perfumery, but, to my mind, inacceptable in a perfume of this price. That is a criterion most people will not share, nor will their perception of the matter even necessarily be the same. Needless to say I have the greatest respect for Dullah's knowledge and opinions and I do not wish in any way to scoff at anyone's enjoyment of this fragrance. As I said before, I can see the beauty in Windsor. But it can't hurt to look at the issue from a variety of perspectives and I admit I can't resist the urge to demystify Creed's unbearable PR chatter, whether on the Duke of Windsor, the supposed rarity of certain essences, or other flights of fantasy in perfume history.
    Ah t_g_l, you and my significant other, both with this obsession with naturals/organic and the ever-present paraben phobia - its a constant topic in my household. I find most of these organic/all natural frags spineless, but you get to spend on what you really want whether it be Creed, Guerlain, vintages or hand made natural frags
    -

  48. #48

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Addict View Post
    Good_Life, could you please give us some examples of male rose-centered parfums which would be in your opinion better and/or closer to being completely natural than W. ? Thanks.
    I would like to know his opinion on this as well.

  49. #49

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Thanks for this thread. Called NYC Boutique and got my name on the list.

    Having found out about Windsor too late to get a flacon the first time around, I got two 1.7 atomizers of the stuff. Why? Because it is simply the best fragrance I have ever smelled, period. Second place isn't even close. $490 for 3.4oz of this stuff is, to me, worth it. And no, I ain't rich... it is that extraordinary to me.

    ergo, $600 for 8.4oz is an absolute no-brainer.

  50. #50

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by TalkingMuffin View Post
    it is simply the best fragrance I have ever smelled, period. Second place isn't even close.
    Out of curiosity, which is the second one, if the above weren't meant purely rhetorically? Thanks.

  51. #51

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    and I admit I can't resist the urge to demystify Creed's unbearable PR chatter, whether on the Duke of Windsor, the supposed rarity of certain essences, or other flights of fantasy in perfume history.
    I've been looking into the various Creed stories and legends as a kind of recreational easter egg hunt and it's an amazing look at how PR of questionable origin or validity reproduce in blogs and merchant sites across the web. Part of the issue seems to be that Creed's distributors run the Creed websites for their regions and any discrepancies can be attributed to an overzealous merchant spinning tall tales without the knowledge of the manufacturer. For example, compare the US website's description of Millesime Imperial with the Australian sites. Now look at their old version http://web.archive.org/web/200807200....au/prod17.htm
    They dropped the reference to King Faisal after I questioned the US distributor on the subject, asking how the King wore a perfume the US site claims was created in 1995 when he was assassinated in 1975, and he admitted that the Australian site had made a mistake and sent them an email explaining it.

    Was that a simple distributor's error? And who's error? This Forbes article (http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1999/1011/6409434a.html contains the King Faisal claim and it seems a professional magazine like Forbes would have fact checkers calling Creed for verification. It also has the hilarious claim that Alfonso XIII wore Green Irish Tweed. This is extraordinary as Olivier Creed claims credit for creating the perfume and the king died 2 years before he was born.

    All in all, good fun for the neurotic fact checker.
    Last edited by Zizanioides; 22nd March 2010 at 06:00 PM.

  52. #52

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Windsor isn't even a rose dominant perfume.

    And I know Dullah loves to slam Lyric Man for having a synthetic rose but of course it's going to have a synthetic rose - how else do you make a rose scent that is rose dominant for hours without synthetics? That being said, there is some absolutely phenomenal quality rose otto that is present in Lyric Man and it can be smelled for the first 30-45 minutes or so. You aren't going to get more than that out of a natural rose that is combined along with synthetics in a scent designed to last 8-10 hours or more. You just can't. So arguing that Lyric Man uses a synthetic rose note and that somehow makes Windsor a superior rose fragrance is a specious argument. Windsor's rose note doesn't last that long. Lyric Man's rose notes last longer than Windsor lasts, period. Comparing the two is kind of pointless as their structures and intentions are almost as divergent as they come.

    I like Windsor. I find it to be a unique fragrance. But this kind of idol-worship of Dullah and his words regarding Windsor is getting a bit out of hand, imo. I'm not saying Dullah doesn't have an excellent grasp on the fragrance but we should keep in mind that his words are merely an opinion. I find people latching onto his positive claims while ignoring, questioning the validity of, or chastising those who do not think Windsor is God's-urine-bottled, and I don't know why this behavior is so prevalent with this scent. Maybe people are trying to justify the absurd costs?
    ***For sale:

    Iris Pallida 50ml

    Ungaro I 75ml

    and more!
    - http://www.basenotes.net/threads/301...n-Man-and-more

  53. #53

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    The House of Creed announces the launching of their new creation: EVO. The name is an homage to the wonderful women of all times, from Original [Limited Edition] Eve to Eva Braun. The last letter has been chosen as "O" standing for Oliver Creed, but also as a symbol of the great nothingness out of which we all come and return, except the House of Creed (PBUH).

    The original formula was invented by Plato Creed, using unique fragrant elements extracted by hand from weeds grown on the South-South-Western hills just outside his conceptual cave. Oliver Creed modernized the recipe, adding to it an extract from the liver of the pubescent female tse-tse fly, which Oliver Creed personally harpooned directly from his yacht, using exclusively organic instruments created by Catholic nuns sworn to secrecy during a ceremony taking place on the top of an erupting Kilimanjaro.

    with apologies for the parody,
    Addict
    (if the product is stellar, we can swallow a bit of out-there PR)
    (big Creed fan anyway!)
    Last edited by Addict; 22nd March 2010 at 06:39 PM.

  54. #54

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    I find people latching onto his positive claims while ignoring, questioning the validity of, or chastising those who do not think Windsor is God's-urine-bottled, and I don't know why this behavior is so prevalent with this scent. Maybe people are trying to justify the absurd costs?
    uhh... i just really really like the shit. that is possible. I bought two atomizers of it before I read one post of Dullah's (or anything on Basenotes, actually). in fact, the reason i found this website was because of Windsor and my desire to learn more about the fragrance I had fallen in love with.

    that said, glad to be here now! :-)

  55. #55

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    I'm not pointing at anyone in particular. I just find that the Creed hype is being swallowed, without any chewing first, in regards to this frag, and that's not something I've seen on BN in quite awhile.

    I guess that kind of behavior just irks me, and not only with this frag. It bothers me universally - like with the belief that Amouage's Homage is somehow world's apart better than the rest of their line, that it's 100% natural, etc.
    Last edited by SculptureOfSoul; 22nd March 2010 at 06:59 PM.
    ***For sale:

    Iris Pallida 50ml

    Ungaro I 75ml

    and more!
    - http://www.basenotes.net/threads/301...n-Man-and-more

  56. #56

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Just gave them a call as well and got my name on the list! Time to start saving up for a bottle or two but atleast I have a good amount of time to do that.

  57. #57

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Addict View Post
    The House of Creed announces the launching of their new creation: EVO. The name is an homage to the wonderful women of all times, from Original [Limited Edition] Eve to Eva Braun. The last letter has been chosen as "O" standing for Oliver Creed, but also as a symbol of the great nothingness out of which we all come and return, except the House of Creed (PBUH).

    The original formula was invented by Plato Creed, using unique fragrant elements extracted by hand from weeds grown on the South-South-Western hills just outside his conceptual cave. Oliver Creed modernized the recipe, adding to it an extract from the liver of the pubescent female tse-tse fly, which Oliver Creed personally harpooned directly from his yacht, using exclusively organic instruments created by Catholic nuns sworn to secrecy during a ceremony taking place on the top of an erupting Kilimanjaro.

    with apologies for the parody,
    Addict
    (if the product is stellar, we can swallow a bit of out-there PR)
    (big Creed fan anyway!)
    You got me all excited, I was going to call and reserve a bottle!
    Seriously I really like Windsor too, do find their price really high and their marketing annoying, but buying a bottle and splitting it makes the price reasonable for 50 ml.
    Oriscent, AgarAura Pure Ouds, Creed, LIDGE, Patou Pour Homme, tons of niche and rare stuff for sale!
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/253...er-100-items!!

  58. #58

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Addict View Post
    Good_Life, could you please give us some examples of male rose-centered parfums which would be in your opinion better and/or closer to being completely natural than W. ? Thanks.
    First of all, I'd agree that Windsor is not really rose-scentered. But to answer your question.
    Better: C&S Dark Rose (vintage version only): Basically Montale before Montale, only better than Montale. You have to like Saffron and Oud, it's totally different in character than Windsor, obviously.
    More natural (and, IMHO better): Rose de Bois by profumo.it. More similar to Windsor than DR in that it's a subtle green not-too-rosy rose, with a sweeter base than Windsor. I also prefer Black Tie by Tremlett and Caraceni, but it would be hard to argue they are less synthetic. They may be in actual percentages, but some people find the latter jarringly artificial and the former's base somewhat uninspiredly blah-musky. What's certain is that Forester's (former maker of C&S, Caraceni and Tremlett) rose-geranium base is one of the very finest in the business.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  59. #59

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    [QUOTE=SculptureOfSoul;1785367... like with the belief that Amouage's Homage is somehow world's apart better than the rest of their line, that it's 100% natural, etc.[/QUOTE]

    Off topic I know but this gets me too. It begins with the most obvious huge aldehydes. How anyone could think it is all natural amazes me...?
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  60. #60

    Default Re: Creed Windsor Returns Fall 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by SculptureOfSoul View Post
    Windsor isn't even a rose dominant perfume.

    And I know Dullah loves to slam Lyric Man for having a synthetic rose but of course it's going to have a synthetic rose - how else do you make a rose scent that is rose dominant for hours without synthetics? That being said, there is some absolutely phenomenal quality rose otto that is present in Lyric Man and it can be smelled for the first 30-45 minutes or so. You aren't going to get more than that out of a natural rose that is combined along with synthetics in a scent designed to last 8-10 hours or more. You just can't. So arguing that Lyric Man uses a synthetic rose note and that somehow makes Windsor a superior rose fragrance is a specious argument. Windsor's rose note doesn't last that long. Lyric Man's rose notes last longer than Windsor lasts, period. Comparing the two is kind of pointless as their structures and intentions are almost as divergent as they come.

    I like Windsor. I find it to be a unique fragrance. But this kind of idol-worship of Dullah and his words regarding Windsor is getting a bit out of hand, imo. I'm not saying Dullah doesn't have an excellent grasp on the fragrance but we should keep in mind that his words are merely an opinion. I find people latching onto his positive claims while ignoring, questioning the validity of, or chastising those who do not think Windsor is God's-urine-bottled, and I don't know why this behavior is so prevalent with this scent. Maybe people are trying to justify the absurd costs?
    Well thats a bit uncalled for - I don't see any reason for attacking a fellow BN'er. He just discusses and shares his (detailed) opinions - frankly, I have seen a lot worse on the board, with a lot of mindless droning praising oldy classics every other day and a chorus of yes men right nearby. You need to disassociate your love for a frag from anyone who doesn't share the same high enthusiasm.

    Yes, I play with EO's whenever I can (I have a lot of other interests as well and can't afford to spend 100% of my time making love to perfumes and oils), try fragrances whenever I can, and am fortunate enough to have contacts in the beauty/cosmetics industry. I also happen to think that 95% of these natural/organic fragrances aren't up to snuff. Its my opinion and I am sticking to it - anyone else is welcome to disagree with me.

    And Windsor is a great natural smelling frag. But I like Love in Black more. Suck it fellas !
    -

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