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  1. #1

    Default What additives would make a scent last longer?

    Hello,

    I am having some difficulty creating perfumes that lasts for more than 4 or so hours. I have experimented with several different formulas that contain base notes such as patchouli, angelica root, oakmoss, frankincense, myrrh or benzoin and might also contain musk X or combinations of these. I made sure the formulas were 25% - 40% essential and fragrance oils.

    I have put a drop of undiluted oakmoss and musk X on a blotter and they still smell quite nice more than 36 hours later. They don't seem to have the same staying power when diluted in a perfume.

    Does the addition of glycerin to the perfume alcohol help extend it?

    Any advice on how to make longer lasting perfumes would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

    TGS

  2. #2

    Default Re: What additives would make a scent last longer?

    what was the ratio of basenotes compared to heart- and topnotes?

  3. #3

    Default Re: What additives would make a scent last longer?

    Thank you for your response and I apologize in advance for my response that clearly comes from a confused novice...

    Yours is a very good question and one that I am finding more and more difficult to answer. The reason for this is that I have been diluting many of my oils before using them as many of them are extremely overpowering or too thick to use in pure form. I have found it necessary to dilute some oils more than others. I am not sure how to calculate ratio when some oils have been diluted and some have not.

    For example, if I have used 3 parts of a base note that has been diluted 10 to 1, 1 part of a middle note that has been diluted 2 to 1, and 1 part of an undiluted top note how do I calculate ratios of base to heart to top notes?

    I guess the core question is do ratios only work when all oils are in their pure form or, is ratio independent of the amount an oil has been diluted?

    I have been diluting my oils in perfume alcohol before adding to a formula. Is that ok or should I be diluting them in a carrier oil?

    I am a bit embarrassed to ask these questions because even in writing them I feel I am way off on some likely basic concepts but I am sure glad this forum is here so I can ask them.

  4. #4

    Default Re: What additives would make a scent last longer?

    tgs, i think you need to calculate the amount of oil, and forget about the alcohol. so, 10 drops of 10% (9 to 1) counts as 1. it is not the strength of the odor that counts, but the tenacity vs volatility. but i have to add, i am just starting out and i am not very experienced.

    jean carles, however, is very experienced. let me quote this famous perfumer and teacher:
    This percentage is extremely important: it is, for the major part, responsible for the tenacity of the perfume. A perfume containing 20% of bases, 30% of modifiers and 50% of top notes will lack tenacity, since the percentage of bases would be relatively too low as compared with that of the more volatile modifiers and top notes. Therefore, the proportions are selected so as to obtain a balanced evolution during evaporation.
    his example has 55% base, 20% heart and 25% top notes.

    and you should dilute your oils only in alcohol or any of a number of solvents that dissolve well in alcohol, not in oils. that is, unless you are going to make an oil based perfume, of course.

  5. #5

    Default Re: What additives would make a scent last longer?

    Quote Originally Posted by gido View Post
    tgs, i think you need to calculate the amount of oil, and forget about the alcohol.
    i meant when calculating the ratio's. the amount of alcohol vs oils is of course a very important factor for the tenacity. (more alcohol = more volatile)

  6. #6

    Default Re: What additives would make a scent last longer?

    Thank you for the info. I know this is not an exact science but I need to present a scenario with some questions so I can better understand.

    So, imagine we are making 1/8 oz of alcohol based perfume. Of this 1/8 oz, 35% (for this example) needs to be EO and the remainder alcohol. There are 75 drops in 1/8 oz so, 35% of 75 drops would be about 26 drops. So, there needs to be 26 drops of EO and 49 drops of alcohol in 1/8 oz perfume.

    Using your 55% base note, 20% heart note and 25% top note example, of the 26 drops EO, 14 drops (55% of 26) would need to be base notes, 5 drops (20% of 26) heart notes and 7 drops (25% of 26) top notes.

    I am finding it difficult to cover the strength of 15 base note EOs with so few drops of heart and top EOs. How is this done?

    Even if the odor of the base notes is strong but the tenacity is low, the aroma would still not last a long time, right? If there are a limited number of base note EOs with a long tenacity, does every natural perfume end up smelling alike if they all use them? is this where chemicals work better?

    Also, if some EOs are diluted 10% and only a percentage of a whole drop is being used then does the remaining percentage need to be made up by some other diluted EO or EOs to make a whole drop? In other words, does there need to be 3 drops of a 10% diluted EO + 2 drops of another 10% diluted EO + 5 drops of an additional 10% diluted EO to equal 1 drop? Or, do the 10% diluted drops count as whole drops? I think you answered this but if diluted EOs are used it seems to force the necessity to use other diluted EOs simply to make whole drops.

    Any clarification and help would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by TGS; 24th March 2010 at 01:09 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: What additives would make a scent last longer?

    You gotta be careful with these proportions, eg don't necessarily assume that 15 drops of your base EO cannot be covered by such a few heart or top EO's . You need to know the relative strength of each of your EO's, and that's only something that you can learn by practice.

    Eg peppermint oil is often used as a top. However, 1 drop of peppermint oil is disproportionally powerful and can overpower most other base EO for a while.

    When you say "the odor of the base note is strong but tenacity is low" - well then by definition, that's not a basenote is it?
    Q: How do you make a feminine fragrance masculine?
    A: Add 'Pour Homme' to the bottle
    - Pierre Bourdon

  8. #8

    Default Re: What additives would make a scent last longer?

    Quote Originally Posted by GourmandHomme View Post
    You gotta be careful with these proportions, eg don't necessarily assume that 15 drops of your base EO cannot be covered by such a few heart or top EO's . You need to know the relative strength of each of your EO's, and that's only something that you can learn by practice.

    Eg peppermint oil is often used as a top. However, 1 drop of peppermint oil is disproportionally powerful and can overpower most other base EO for a while.

    When you say "the odor of the base note is strong but tenacity is low" - well then by definition, that's not a basenote is it?
    Good points--thank you

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