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  1. #1

    Default B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Two weeks ago I bought a 50ml rubber flask of B*Men for A$15 (US&13.65) and two days ago I bought a 100ml bottle of Ice Men for A$20 (US$18.20), and a 200ml bottle of B*Men shower gel for A$9.

    I think they are both great.
    B*Men is a far more wearable scent than A*men, but reminds me strongly of it.
    Ice Men reminds me strongly of A*men too, but doesn't leave me gagging in the middle of summer.
    Both have excellent longevity.
    I think both are infinitely better tha Mugler's Cologne, which I could never warm to.

    When they first came out, they weren't greatly disliked here, and there was quite a bit of positive comment. But these are now the absolutely most heavily discounted scents I've ever seen from a big name designer down here.

    What's wrong with these two scents? Where did Mugler go wrong?
    Any thoughts?
    Renato
    Last edited by Renato; 3rd April 2010 at 07:28 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    First off Mugler Perfumes does not premote it's men's line as has it does the women's. In our us department stores you will find the Clarins Fragrance Reps - one posted at the Macy's ladies counter pushing Angel heavy at the Men's counter they push Azzarro Chrome. Note Clarins markets both Azzaro and Mugler.

    I don't think it has much to do with the fragrance but both were never promoted much here in the US.

  3. #3

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    It just may be that they made too many bottles! However, B*Men is an oddball. It's not really for any social situation, but more of a frag for people who want something clearly different AND who will take the time to try out a few different frags. Hence, not much of a market. I haven't tried Ice Men.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 3rd April 2010 at 08:48 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Icemen smells like sweaty hippie patchouli, I get no "coolness"

    BMen smells like a barn, but I still love it.
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  5. #5
    hednic's Avatar
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    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    I don't think he went wrong with either of them. I think they're both fine.

  6. #6

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    I see how B*Men may remind you of A*Men, because of the way it develops.. at least to me. The smells themselves are very different though, except maybe the coffee note in the middle of B*Men which is comparable to A*Mens.

    I happen to like B*Men quite a bit. It's mostly a gourmand but it does have some intriguing spice to it. I'm sure if they were marketed more now, (since most people know about Mugler now) they would have better sales.
    Last edited by The_Cologneist; 4th April 2010 at 02:51 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    He did not make them boring aquatics, so they didn't sell.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentimus View Post
    First off Mugler Perfumes does not premote it's men's line as has it does the women's. In our us department stores you will find the Clarins Fragrance Reps - one posted at the Macy's ladies counter pushing Angel heavy at the Men's counter they push Azzarro Chrome. Note Clarins markets both Azzaro and Mugler.

    I don't think it has much to do with the fragrance but both were never promoted much here in the US.
    That's interesting how it's done over in the US.
    Down here they were promoted pretty much the same as all others - a big initial push when they first came out in the two major retail chains.
    Renato

  9. #9

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    It just may be that they made too many bottles! However, B*Men is an oddball. It's not really for any social situation, but more of a frag for people who want something clearly different AND who will take the time to try out a few different frags. Hence, not much of a market. I haven't tried Ice Men.
    I agree with you it's an oddball, but for a different reason. It's a gourmand that goes with any social situation. I can't imagine where I'd feel odd wearing it.
    You could well be right about too many bottles.
    Renato

  10. #10

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by scentimus View Post
    First off Mugler Perfumes does not premote it's men's line as has it does the women's. In our us department stores you will find the Clarins Fragrance Reps - one posted at the Macy's ladies counter pushing Angel heavy at the Men's counter they push Azzarro Chrome. Note Clarins markets both Azzaro and Mugler.

    I don't think it has much to do with the fragrance but both were never promoted much here in the US.
    I agree, but Clarins Fragrance Group started fixing that about a year ago. Too late for B*Men and ICE*Men to succeed, but at the right time for future launches and to build upon existing strong products. Now, in doors where both Azzaro and Thierry Mugler are sold, they mention both Chrome and A*Men to customers (and Mugler Cologne if it's available), with a slight focus on Top 5-selling Chrome. A year ago, it was all about Chrome and nothing else. So, I'd say that Clarins learned from its mistakes... smart companies do.

    Therefore, it should be interesting if Clarins grabs Inter Parfums US designer distribution from P&G as rumored. Then, they'll have to add in Burberry, Lanvin, Quiksilver, Van Cleef & Arpels, and others...
    Celebrating 10 years on Basenotes - and smelling better than ever

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  11. #11

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Punisher View Post
    Icemen smells like sweaty hippie patchouli, I get no "coolness"

    BMen smells like a barn, but I still love it.
    I'll take your word about the hippie patchouli (I have no experience with it).
    Maybe it's perceptions like yours that led to the sales downfall of these scents.
    Renato

  12. #12

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by hednic View Post
    I don't think he went wrong with either of them. I think they're both fine.
    But usually, when you make something fine (and I agree with you on that point) they should sell reasonably well.

    I saw B*men being discounted in Europe three years ago (one of the few scents in that boat over there), and then being ridiculously discounted over here.
    Something had to have gone wrong.
    Renato

  13. #13

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cologneist View Post
    I see how B*Men may remind you of A*Men, because of the way it develops.. at least to me. The smells themselves are very different though, except maybe the coffee note in the middle of B*Men which is comparable to A*Mens.

    I happen to like B*Men quite a bit. It's mostly a gourmand but it does have some intriguing spice to it. I'm sure if they were marketed more now, (since most people know about Mugler now) they would have better sales.
    I just can't think of any scent B*Men reminds me of, other than A*Men, despite their differences.
    I think that with the success of Angel, A*Men and Mugler's Cologne, Mugler was going to be as well known as he ever was going to be, when these two later scents came along.
    Renato

  14. #14

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by petruccijc View Post
    He did not make them boring aquatics, so they didn't sell.
    Noting their recent successes, you could well have a point.
    Renato

  15. #15

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MFfan310 View Post
    with a slight focus on Top 5-selling Chrome. A year ago, it was all about Chrome and nothing else.
    Chrome is a top selling scent in the US?
    For the last seven or eight years, I think I've been about the only one here singing its praises, while nearly everyone else has been trashing it as being synthetic and linear.
    Renato

  16. #16

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Chrome is a top selling scent in the US?
    Yes, Chrome is a top-selling scent here in the US, ranking up there on the Top 5 with Acqua di Gio, Euphoria Men, and Polo Blue. Because of that, it's also heavily advertised and promoted by Clarins here.
    Last edited by MFfan310; 4th April 2010 at 03:06 PM.
    Celebrating 10 years on Basenotes - and smelling better than ever

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  17. #17

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Well, I think Mugler went "wrong" by making flankers. Maybe it is just me, but I don't think flankers get as much respect as the original fragrances.

    I don't really like either fragrance to be honest. But I do respect them. B*Men does remind me alot of A*Men. It does have a distinct peanut butter note, at least to me. IceMan is too "mentholated". I should give it another sampling in the summer, maybe I will like it better than.
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  18. #18
    Pollux's Avatar
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    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    I happened to find some notes in B Men based on analogies: once I had the chance of buying a scent discontinued in the USA but still in production in my home country, Woody Musk by Avon, it has got the same kind of musk you will find in Clubman and Canoe, with the addtion of woody notes. This scent is considered by many as extremely strong (even the SA told me it was unbereable, albeit the fact it settles down to powdery notes minutes after application). Later on I had the chance of buying musk EO, I had the chance of knowing which was the same EO in common between Canoe, Pinaud and Avonīs Woody Musk.

    B Men has this note, IMHO, and this is what makes it more traditional in comparisson to A Men. It has an effect on the sweetness of A Men, since it neutrailizes it. According to comparissons made, B Men ends up being the most complex and more fullfiling of all this "musk based" scents. No wonder it has been dscontinued, it is worlds appart to the original proposal. Even thought I pitty the fact it has been discontinued, it is obvious it departs from what pefumistas had originally in mind - too conservative for A Men wearers, too flamboyant a brand name for those akin to traditional styles, even though the blend can be so considered.

    Pure Malt has some points in common, that must be the reason why it was produced as a limited edition.

  19. #19

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by petruccijc View Post
    He did not make them boring aquatics, so they didn't sell.
    I like your cyinicism + it is truth...

  20. #20

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Chrome is a top selling scent in the US?
    For the last seven or eight years, I think I've been about the only one here singing its praises, while nearly everyone else has been trashing it as being synthetic and linear.
    Renato
    I really like Chrome, it is, more or less, easily available in Croatia, but not much folks wear this...

  21. #21
    Cartoonish Royalty Le Grand Duc's Avatar
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    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by petruccijc View Post
    He did not make them boring aquatics, so they didn't sell.
    LOL ... word!

  22. #22

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    I just can't think of any scent B*Men reminds me of, other than A*Men, despite their differences.
    I think that with the success of Angel, A*Men and Mugler's Cologne, Mugler was going to be as well known as he ever was going to be, when these two later scents came along.
    Renato
    As Bigsly pointed out it's an oddball, I did notice B*Men to smell similar to Diesel Plus Plus in the opening. B*Men being much more appealing to me though.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zgb View Post
    I like your cyinicism + it is truth...
    Moi, a cynic? Never.....
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  24. #24

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by petruccijc View Post
    Moi, a cynic? Never.....
    God forbid!

  25. #25

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    B men is OK, I prefer A men but I could see myself wearing B men from time to time and it has a similarity to A men without the sweetness. Have not tried ice men, i have tried sunessence and wasn't a big fan of it.

  26. #26

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    I like both, although I like Ice*Men more (nice, light, cool patchouli). Its unfortunate that it didnt meet sales expectation but I would like for TM not to discontinue it.
    -

  27. #27

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Ice*Men is the only Mugler fragrance that I didn't buy. I love the patchouli in the dry-down, however the prominent menthol note ruined it for me.

  28. #28

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    I meant that it is an "oddball" to the typical guy spraying the tester on himself (or his GF trying it out to see if she'd like to buy it for him). If you like it, then once you get to the drydown it is fairly versatile. Ciel Mon Jardin! is the closest I've found to B*Men. I don't see much of a connection to A*Men, except some lavender, which is of course common to a huge number of "men's" frags. A*Men has strong chocolate, tar, and mint, which B*Men doesn't have. Instead, it has strong rhubard, wood, and spice notes. I've never understood why anyone would think that the two are similar, unless they mean in a general gourmand way.
    Last edited by Bigsly; 5th April 2010 at 04:55 AM.

  29. #29

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacing View Post
    Well, I think Mugler went "wrong" by making flankers. Maybe it is just me, but I don't think flankers get as much respect as the original fragrances.

    I don't really like either fragrance to be honest. But I do respect them. B*Men does remind me alot of A*Men. It does have a distinct peanut butter note, at least to me. IceMan is too "mentholated". I should give it another sampling in the summer, maybe I will like it better than.
    You could have a point about flankers, and these two being perceived as such.
    In one sense, there isn't much difference in concept between this group of three, and say Kouros/Kouros Cologne Sport/ Kouros Ete.
    On the other hand, A*Men does have it's own real flankers with the A*Men name in each.
    Renato

  30. #30

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pollux View Post

    B Men has this note, IMHO, and this is what makes it more traditional in comparisson to A Men. It has an effect on the sweetness of A Men, since it neutrailizes it. According to comparissons made, B Men ends up being the most complex and more fullfiling of all this "musk based" scents. No wonder it has been dscontinued, it is worlds appart to the original proposal. Even thought I pitty the fact it has been discontinued, it is obvious it departs from what pefumistas had originally in mind - too conservative for A Men wearers, too flamboyant a brand name for those akin to traditional styles, even though the blend can be so considered.
    That is one perceptive analysis, which may go to the core of what went wrong with B*Men. In one sense it is nothing like the original, in another, it's the only one that can strongly reminds one of the original.
    Renato

  31. #31

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zgb View Post
    I really like Chrome, it is, more or less, easily available in Croatia, but not much folks wear this...
    When I was in Zagreb and Krk last October, I wore Chrome (It's my travel scent for hot days).
    Renato

  32. #32

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cologneist View Post
    As Bigsly pointed out it's an oddball, I did notice B*Men to smell similar to Diesel Plus Plus in the opening. B*Men being much more appealing to me though.
    I'm a fan of Diesel ++, but never detected any similarity to B*Men. probably because of the punch its opening notes pack up my nostrils.
    Renato

  33. #33

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaheen View Post
    Ice*Men is the only Mugler fragrance that I didn't buy. I love the patchouli in the dry-down, however the prominent menthol note ruined it for me.
    I must be desensitized to menthol, because I just can't pick that note in Ice Men that you and others detect.
    Renato

  34. #34

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    I've never understood why anyone would think that the two are similar, unless they mean in a general gourmand way.
    I find them similar in a very specific way, not a general way.
    There is one strong note or group of notes that is distinctive only to those two. Unfortunately I'm hopeless at identifying notes.
    Regards,
    Renato

  35. #35

    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    I absolutely hate A*men.

    I tested some Ice Men on my arm recently, and I got to say, it's not bad at all.
    It's fresh but in a special way.
    I wouldn't mind buying it for a low price.
    Last edited by Suppressor; 5th April 2010 at 03:00 PM.

  36. #36
    PawelL
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    Default Re: B*Men and Ice Men - where did Mugler go wrong?

    I like both.
    Regards,
    P
    Last edited by PawelL; 5th April 2010 at 09:00 PM.

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