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  1. #61

    Default Re: How much is perfume a French artifact?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galamb_Borong View Post
    Nice article, Carmen. Thanks to the delightful Hillaire here on Basenotes, I've been able to sample Amouage's Gold and Ubar, as well as a dozen or so vintage French fragrances, and I must say, Amouage really does capture classical French perfumery in spirit and content to a large degree. I have yet to try Jubilation, but I would not at all surprised to smell an old-school chypre in the line!

    Conversely, the two I've smelled remind me nothing at all of any of the oil-based Arabic fragrances I've tried, which were completely removed in style and content from these two Amouages, at least.
    Thanks! Amouage really have two different lines, the French-inspired one and the Arabic style -- I can't judge how classical the latter is because I don't have much knowledge of traditional Arabic perfumery. They seem to be determined to uphold the grand French manner, though in truth, something like Bertrand Duchaufour's Jubilation XXV is very modern compared to Lucas Sieuzac's Jubilation 25.

  2. #62

    Default Re: How much is perfume a French artifact?

    Their store is definitely at Place Vendōme, it's where I went and first smelled their Aoud Forest last year.
    Last edited by zeram1; 23rd April 2010 at 05:42 AM.
    Scents are fleeting . . . memories are not. . . .

  3. #63
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    Default Re: How much is perfume a French artifact?

    Quote Originally Posted by zeram1 View Post
    Their store is definitely at Place Vendōme, it's where I went and first smelled their Aoud Forest last year.
    I thought so too, but the GoogleMaps application said the address at 26, Place Vendōme was invalid. An error, perhaps?
    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

    "Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"

    My Wardrobe
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    Fiat justitia ruat cęlum.

    Let justice be done, even if the sky should fall.

    Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus

    Qui nihil potest sperare, desperet nihil.
    Let him who can hope for nothing despair of nothing.

    Male irato ferrum committitur.
    It is an evil thing to arm an angry man.
    —Seneca

  4. #64

    Default Re: How much is perfume a French artifact?

    You had me quite alarmed by two earlier posts, Xaime! First the website seemed to be closed, then the address in Paris was not valid any more ???

    Thanks to Zeram1, I felt encouraged to give it a try myself first thing this €-morning, and much to my relief Google found the Montale address for me and a nice picture too. It is the same address as before, of course. I also learned that Boucheron are right next door :-) !
    .
    <<montale, 26 place vendome, 75001 paris, France >>

    Quote Originally Posted by Zizanioides View Post
    It could well be the same Montale that makes watches:
    http://oami.europa.eu/CTMOnline/Requ...etailCTM_NoReg

    And here is the current legit one:
    http://oami.europa.eu/CTMOnline/Requ...etailCTM_NoReg

    Edit: Nvm, the are using some bizarro coding that makes linking impossible. Just search Montale, the legit one is the first result and the questionable one is third.
    Thank you Zizanioides; handy tool you are posting together with your reply! I was not aware it existed. I also can't read the codes, and the info is open to interpretation, of course, but I am not really concerned any more. #1 and #3: these clearly deal with 'our' Montale as they carry the signet MTL. #1 could have been caused by a renewal, or concerns a territory expansion matter. In that case, a cancellation of the original registration (#3) might not be alarming at all. Only #2 is a different outfit, also named Montale, but with the 'SA' (ie.abbrev. for French shareholding companies) attached. Maybe it's the watch makers, maybe it's something else.

    I am glad that you have found the brand registration records at all! It seems like we have found one person with a name that sounds Arabic to me. Maybe this doesn't mean much, but it could also be another piece in the puzzle of a possible Arabian involvement.





    Last edited by narcus; 23rd April 2010 at 05:52 PM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

  5. #65
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    Default Re: How much is perfume a French artifact?

    I went back to GoogleMaps, and there is indeed a photo of the north side of Place Vendōme with the Montale Shop there at No. 26. Someone must have reported the address as invalid, but it appears to be confirmed as correct now. Sorry for the confusion.

    One of the web addresses still gives an error message. The one Narcus posted, however, does come up with all the scents listed. It just looks like they have abandoned their old website and not updated some old links.

    So Montale, SA is alive and well in Paris and in Switzerland, but still a little mysterious in their business organization and perhaps slightly careless about their web presence...

    By the bye, I just ordered a bottle of Red Vetyver. I should get it by Monday.
    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

    "Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"

    My Wardrobe
    My Reviews

    Fiat justitia ruat cęlum.

    Let justice be done, even if the sky should fall.

    Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus

    Qui nihil potest sperare, desperet nihil.
    Let him who can hope for nothing despair of nothing.

    Male irato ferrum committitur.
    It is an evil thing to arm an angry man.
    —Seneca

  6. #66

    Default Re: How much is perfume a French artifact?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaimeB View Post
    I went back to GoogleMaps, and there is indeed a photo of the north side of Place Vendōme with the Montale Shop there at No. 26. Someone must have reported the address as invalid, but it appears to be confirmed as correct now. Sorry for the confusion.

    One of the web addresses still gives an error message. The one Narcus posted, however, does come up with all the scents listed. It just looks like they have abandoned their old website and not updated some old links.

    So Montale, SA is alive and well in Paris and in Switzerland, but still a little mysterious in their business organization and perhaps slightly careless about their web presence...

    By the bye, I just ordered a bottle of Red Vetyver. I should get it by Monday.
    Enjoy the new scent, JaimeB. One of the joys of this hobby is when the exciting box arrives and it's just like Christmas!
    Last edited by Primrose; 23rd April 2010 at 06:35 PM.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  7. #67

    Default Re: How much is perfume a French artifact?

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    You had me quite alarmed by two earlier posts, Xaime! First the website seemed to be closed, then the address in Paris was not valid any more ???

    Thanks to Zeram1, I felt encouraged to give it a try myself first thing this €-morning, and much to my relief Google found the Montale address for me and a nice picture too. It is the same address as before, of course. I also learned that Boucheron are right next door :-) !
    .
    <<montale, 26 place vendome, 75001 paris, France >>

    Thank you Zizanioides; handy tool you are posting together with your reply! I was not aware it existed. I also can't read the codes, and the info is open to interpretation, of course, but I am not really concerned any more. #1 and #3: these clearly deal with 'our' Montale as they carry the signet MTL. #1 could have been caused by a renewal, or concerns a territory expansion matter. In that case, a cancellation of the original registration (#3) might not be alarming at all. Only #2 is a different outfit, also named Montale, but with the 'SA' (ie.abbrev. for French shareholding companies) attached. Maybe it's the watch makers, maybe it's something else.

    I am glad that you have found the brand registration records at all! It seems like we have found one person with a name that sounds Arabic to me. Maybe this doesn't mean much, but it could also be another piece in the puzzle of a possible Arabian involvement.





    It really is a great resource and much more helpful than the US version. But a number of things concern me; a review of the documents show Ammar Atmah dealing with a Marley Montale in Paris, buying shipments of "Oud Cuir D'Arabie" etc and he did hold the trademark until the other Montale (Sylvia Fretier and co.) managed to get in canceled in favor of their claim. Fretier's Montale may be the dubious watchmaker you mentioned (they do have the Montale name for watches) They aren't the same companies (as evidenced by the opposition claim) so it makes me wonder if the new company will pick up the Montale line or let it die. Actually I just wonder what the hell is going on :P

  8. #68

    Default Re: How much is perfume a French artifact?

    I like this thread. I don't have anything to add right now, just to commend all the Basenoters contributing to this thread.
    Evenstar

  9. #69

    Default Re: How much is perfume a French artifact?

    Quote Originally Posted by narcus View Post
    You had me quite alarmed by two earlier posts, Xaime! First the website seemed to be closed, then the address in Paris was not valid any more ???
    Thanks to Zeram1, I felt encouraged to give it a try myself first thing this €-morning, and much to my relief Google found the Montale address for me and a nice picture too. It is the same address as before, of course. I also learned that Boucheron are right next door :-) !
    <<montale, 26 place vendome, 75001 paris, France >>
    Contrary to the address of 26, Place Vendome, The Montale boutique isn't technically on the actual Place Vendome, but on the street that runs into the Place, a stone's throw from the north side.
    Last edited by Kevin Guyer; 25th April 2010 at 07:06 AM.

  10. #70

    Default Re: How much is perfume a French artifact?

    I believe we have all done our best to clear a few facts regarding the houses of Amouage and Montale. I am now wondering if there is a fair of amount of agreement regarding their p e r f u m e s ?

    Both Amouage and Montale have taken residence in Europe to compete in the high end section of ‘western’ markets with perfumes which are rich in high quality ingredients of oriental origin.

    AMOUAGE - has usually been contracting reputed French noses to excel with new perfumes in the best of French traditions. They also produce true oriental perfumes, but these have so far been offered on Arabian markets only.

    MONTALE’s set-up and intentions are far less clear. Fact is that they achieved a growing acceptance with high quality perfumes based on oud and other oriental oils, believed to be from natural sources mainly. These have little in common with the French tradition of making ‘orientals’; they remind us of Arabian Attars, etc. instead. They also have other lines which meet common expectations of western customers much better. But I get the impression that the French tradition of a three-phase-scent-development is vastly ignored. However, the wearer may feel more than compensated for that ‘loss’ by a few notes of top quality, good sillage and impressive longevity.

    Back to French artifacts - a new tradition seems to have established itself in the second half of the twentieth century: it can no longer be overlooked that a shocking majority of older perfumes has either been shamelessly watered down, or 'modernized' without communicating this fact to their customers, sometimes to a point that we might as well speak of fraud. This has certainly thrown a dark shadow upon the newer, otherwise rather glorious, French tradition of making wonderful perfumes.
    Last edited by narcus; 28th April 2010 at 09:33 AM.
    'Il mondo dei profumi č un universo senza limiti: una fraganza puo rievocare sensazioni, luoghi, persone o ancora condurre in uno spazio di nuove dimensioni emozionali' L. V.

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