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  1. #31

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    From what I hear, the owner of this company is a complete terror and everyone in the industry has an issue with her. Add another notch in the belt of her vengeful rampage I guess.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Bond need to get their head from out of their collective backsides and realise that decanting creates fans of a fragrance who buy their fragrances.

    It's the same as the moronic approach of the music industry to peer to peer. As a result of peer to peer sharing I've bought many albums I wouldn't otherwise have considered.

    Bond should stop being litigious and start being grateful that people care enough to have decent sampling periods to try their fragrances in the first place.

    Oh and they should remove "Harrods for him" from sale on account of it being bloody awful.
    In a world where people smell bad, it is the personal responsibility of every Basenoter to improve the world one SotD at a time...

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Why would they twitter this and not make a formal complaint ? Sounds like one of Bond no.9 employees 15 year old was having some fun when momma was away from the kiosk computer..
    -

  4. #34

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    I don't think trademark infringement is exactly what this is, and I don't have any particular feelings toward Bond No. 9 one way or the other, but I do see their point. To me, selling decants of fragrances is like buying an album, recording a song from it, and then selling that song to others. I can't imagine that being considered legal or ethical. Small samples are probably OK (although I think they should be offered free by the manufacturers), and decants given to friends may be OK, but selling substantial decants of commercially sold fragrances seems a bit iffy to me, and making an entire business of it seems pretty shady. To put it another way, if someone were buying Tide detergent, repackaging it in smaller amounts, and reselling it for profit without a licensing agreement, do you think that Procter and Gamble would not be all over them?

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzley View Post
    Small samples are probably OK (although I think they should be offered free by the manufacturers), and decants given to friends may be OK, but selling substantial decants of commercially sold fragrances seems a bit iffy to me, and making an entire business of it seems pretty shady. To put it another way, if someone were buying Tide detergent, repackaging it in smaller amounts, and reselling it for profit without a licensing agreement, do you think that Procter and Gamble would not be all over them?
    When you put it that way, I see your point.
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/370...o-Profumo-Onda
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  6. #36

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by cairomerta View Post
    From what I hear, the owner of this company is a complete terror and everyone in the industry has an issue with her. Add another notch in the belt of her vengeful rampage I guess.
    she was basically a traitor she was doing bond while working for creed as the president and has ripped off creed basically her whole career, thats the only reason why she is half as successful as she is. she must have learned from p diddy.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Ok, its an old case but it still gets hauled out when questions like this arise. The legal theory behind decanting is established in Prestonettes, Inc. v. Coty, 264 U.S. 359 (1924) http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=1&oi=scholarr

    This is a more recent one in a similar vein (http://openjurist.org/263/f3d/1297/d...hillipe-l-dray)
    Basically, if you repackage and a sell a product under its trademarked name you are in the clear as long as you avoid a). misleading labeling that confuses consumers b). destroying/modifying the product and still claiming it as the brand name product.

    The time Bond has taken to actually move on TPC could also bring up the affirmative defense of laches.

    Bonds' threatened lawsuit seems remarkably frivolous unless there's more to the story.
    P.S: This isn't legal advice, just an opinion.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzlepuff View Post
    I don't think selling decants of any fragrance whether trademark protected or not is any different from selling any other already purchased product on ebay or any other secondary market. The Perf. Court are clearly not infringing on the Bond No. 9 trademark because they recognize that it is Bond fragrances they are selling. The don't duplicate their trademark in any way to market the product! It actually might be a restraint of trade violation on behalf of Bond No. 9 to prohibit Perfumed Court from reselling any product as a used item whether in a decant or original bottle.
    100% Agreed. Wow the Bond mudslinging is in full effect today! I'm sorry, I didn't like them previously, and this does nothing to correct that for me. It's pretty weak IMO.
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  9. #39

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    ..........
    Last edited by MikeNY; 4th September 2011 at 01:23 AM.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by Zizanioides View Post
    Ok, its an old case but it still gets hauled out when questions like this arise. The legal theory behind decanting is established in Prestonettes, Inc. v. Coty, 264 U.S. 359 (1924) http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=1&oi=scholarr
    Fascinating. Decanting existed all the way back then!

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by DustB View Post
    I'm afraid I unfriended this house back when I found sales associates incredibly pushy with it.
    Maybe they train them to be. Every one I've come across is uber pushy.

    I also tend to agree that decants cant hurt Bond. Simply because whosever making those decants have to be buying bottles from Bond either through retail, grey market or other. They all come from Bond and help sell and consume their product. So they're definitely aren't doing themselves any favors and they look like @holes on top of that.

    I've been away from the boards for a bit and it feels good to be back. :-)

  12. #42

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzley View Post
    I don't think trademark infringement is exactly what this is, and I don't have any particular feelings toward Bond No. 9 one way or the other, but I do see their point. To me, selling decants of fragrances is like buying an album, recording a song from it, and then selling that song to others. I can't imagine that being considered legal or ethical. Small samples are probably OK (although I think they should be offered free by the manufacturers), and decants given to friends may be OK, but selling substantial decants of commercially sold fragrances seems a bit iffy to me, and making an entire business of it seems pretty shady. To put it another way, if someone were buying Tide detergent, repackaging it in smaller amounts, and reselling it for profit without a licensing agreement, do you think that Procter and Gamble would not be all over them?
    Except that you don't need to sample a detergent extensively before you spend upwards of $250 for a non-returnable bottle.

  13. #43

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    As a company Bond has always sucked and always will. Apart from not liking the entire approach to perfume, I've blacklisted them ever since they threatened an independent perfumer who dared to name her scent Peace (peace - a Bond TM?). I was delighted to hear that these arrogant bastards were a complete failure on the German market where they seriously expected US-size turnover for their overpriced junk and thus flooded stores with excessive stock which has wound up in half-price bargain bins. Not that most of their stuff doesn't belong in a different kind of bin.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    I haven't been to the webpage, but has anyone responded to the bond tweet?

    Someone could have some fun with this!
    Currently wearing: Augusto by Mazzolari

  15. #45

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    ......
    Last edited by MikeNY; 4th September 2011 at 01:24 AM.

  16. #46

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNY911 View Post
    I responded to Bond's tweet and told them that is was unprofessional to take legal action in a "tweet"
    You've simply provoked them to take legal action

  17. #47

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Has this actually been confirmed or denied by TPC ? In a country where lawsuits are ten a penny TPC should take it with a large pinch of salt

  18. #48

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants


  19. #49

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by DustB View Post
    Bond No.9 complaining about someone selling smells they think are their own; oh the irony.
    Indeed what irony this is!

  20. #50

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  21. #51
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    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNY911 View Post
    I responded to Bond's tweet and told them that is was unprofessional to take legal action in a "tweet" and that they shouldn't talk about copyrights as most of their line is plagerized. Anyone else care to let Bond know how we feel?
    I will try to do that this evening (haven't been in the twitterverse yet).

    It would be interesting to know what TPC thinks of it all.
    Currently wearing: Augusto by Mazzolari

  22. #52
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    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by DustB View Post
    Bond No.9 complaining about someone selling smells they think are their own; oh the irony.
    HA!

  23. #53
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    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Wow. Thanks to DustB for the link. It seems Bond's threatening tweet was enough fot TPC to pull all the Bond samples from their website. What bullies Bond are turning out to be. I think Creed should send them a letter telling them to stop selling their blatant Creed rip offs.

    Someone on Bonds facebook page has posted a link to this discussion. So perhaps we should take this opportunity to educate some new-commers. For the newer cologeophiles among us Bond No 9 has ripped off lots of Creed (and other companies) fragrances. They didn't make them close to or an homage to, they literally copied them, and not for the better IMO. Hamptons is a dead ringer for Silver Mountain Water and Chez Bond is a straight up copy of Green Irish Tweed. I know theres more but these are identical just using lesser quality ingredients.

    Full disclosure I own about 11 bottles of Bond (so im not a hater) plus countless samples all obtained directly from Bond SA's. Ive never ordered from TPC but I just dont like the strong arm tactic they are employing here. If anything TPC is helping to market Bond. Have they learned nothing?
    Last edited by Futami; 30th April 2010 at 05:31 PM. Reason: typos and clarity

  24. #54

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    I am not going to address the legal questions here.....and I will not speak bad of Bond No.9.....I will say that I will not purchase a decant of any fragrance from any House.....Not One!!!!! I will only purchase Fragrance from an authorized representative.....I want the real thing.....I see so many threads about fake scents.....I cannot afford to take chances with fakes.....I want to know and be sure that I have purchased the real thing!!!
    Gary

  25. #55

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by Futami View Post
    It seems Bond's threatening tweet was enough fot TPC to pull all the Bond samples from their website.
    TPC hasn't pulled the Bond decants from their website.

    I don't know why the scents aren't showing up when you search for the Bond house specifically, but if you just do a keyword search for "Bond" (top right at the TPC site), a bunch of Bond decants still show up.
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  26. #56

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by Galamb_Borong View Post
    Fascinating. Decanting existed all the way back then!
    It's a pretty awesome case since it's addressing an identical situation in the same industry so you don't have any messy guesswork/research needed to clarify. Maybe it's been overturned somewhere but I've yet to find it and it's been cited as recently as 2008.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pollux View Post
    As far as I know, property entitles owners with rights as owners of the goods bought. This actually means that I am free to do what I want with whatever I bought: Bond won't be able to do anything at all if I decide to buy, say, 50 bottles of any Bond Nº 9 in order to sell them at a huge discount in a store located in the most decrepit neighbour of any city.
    You're right, it's called the first-sale doctrine and it immunizes resellers from these kinds of suits. If it didn't exist Sony and other companies could sell their products to Wal-Mart and then sue them for trademark infringement when they try to sell them.

  27. #57
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    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by G.303 View Post
    I will say that I will not purchase a decant of any fragrance from any House.....Not One!!!!! I will only purchase Fragrance from an authorized representative.....I want the real thing.....I see so many threads about fake scents.....I cannot afford to take chances with fakes.....I want to know and be sure that I have purchased the real thing!!!
    Gary
    What does buying a decant have to do with purchasing non-faked fragrances? Decants allow you to test the fragrance out before you shell out the money to purchase a full retail bottle. I could be wrong, but I've never heard of faked decants, and as such, it sounds to me as if you're comparing apples with oranges. Certainly, no one is accusing PerfumedCourt of selling fake juice.

  28. #58

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Stupid move ,what are they afraid of ? Maybe someone will buy a decant ,fall in love and buy whole bottles. I think all perfume houses would do themselves a favour selling 10ml bottles and sample sets.

  29. #59

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzley View Post
    I don't think trademark infringement is exactly what this is, and I don't have any particular feelings toward Bond No. 9 one way or the other, but I do see their point. To me, selling decants of fragrances is like buying an album, recording a song from it, and then selling that song to others. I can't imagine that being considered legal or ethical. Small samples are probably OK (although I think they should be offered free by the manufacturers), and decants given to friends may be OK, but selling substantial decants of commercially sold fragrances seems a bit iffy to me, and making an entire business of it seems pretty shady. To put it another way, if someone were buying Tide detergent, repackaging it in smaller amounts, and reselling it for profit without a licensing agreement, do you think that Procter and Gamble would not be all over them?
    Your scenario adds the element of coypright infringement. There's no copying with decants, just repackaging.

    Scenarios that match better would be buying an encyclopedia and selling the individual volumes to others, or buying a case of wine and selling the individual bottles to others - or, as you say, selling detergent by the cup.

    Or, really, buying and reselling any product. For example, do I need a license when I resell my used books to the used bokstore, or do they, being a business rather than a private person, need a license from the publisher when they turn around and re-resell them?

    As far as I know, no, neither of us need such a license, and you don't need a licensing agreement to sell detergent, wine, your own used books, your own used perfume, or other similar products.

    I think that the draconian restrictions that are legally supported these days in copyright matters lead people to believe that a corporation with a logo can exercise absolute control over how _any_ product is used. But that's not true - selling a product isn't the equivalent of, for example, copying or displaying or performing a copyrighted work.

    A newspaper can forbid you to tack a news story on your front door, because that's a "public display" of their copyrighted work. But a maker of, say, flour, can't forbid you to bake a scone with their product, or forbid you to sell it. They can't even stop you from stating that the scone was made using Pillsbury flour, as long as you don't state it in such a way as to imply that the whole scone was a product of Pillsbury.

    To continue the example, as far as I know, when someone opens a Mini-Mart, they don't have to sit down with the lawyers and write thousands of licensing agreements for selling the Pringles and the milk and Hershey bars and every other thing they sell. Nor, I believe, do they have to sign up with some central distributor who handles those license agreements. I'm pretty sure that they just obtain products of acceptable quality and sanitation, and turn around and sell them.

    I know that many perfume companies have a pretty tight control over the distribution chain, but I assume that that's enforced by contracts between individual parties - we give you a thousand bottles, you sign a contract that you will not sell the bottles below a specified price and outside a specified territory.

    And "authorized retailers" of electronics are, I believe, disciplined by availability of warranty fulfillment, warranty parts, and of course a reliable flow of new product. There are all sorts of contract and service-related ways to control the way that a product is handled, but that's not the same as a law saying that Coke, for example, is entitled to decide the final fate of every last bottle and can and squirt of syrup.

    So I'm pretty sure that I can sell my own possessions as I darn well please, without getting the permission of the original manufacturer or trademark holder.

    ChickenFreak

  30. #60

    Default Re: Bond No. 9 demanding PerfumedCourt stop selling decants

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    You would think Bond No. 9 would want people to try their fragrances -- they are just shooting themselves in the foot with this attempt to restrict buyers' access to samples.
    I agree. Bond No. 9 is one house I have not explored...and now will not explore. Decants are one way in which serious fragrance buyers (read that as $$$) sample, then buy full bottles. This is just poor business sense. I suppose there is a grey area on licensing, but in the end, Bond stands to have buyers of full-bottles.

    I can give my money to other perfume companies gladly. Not nice to alienate serious buyers who spend quite a bit on niche. I hear a new bottle of Guerlain or Ineke calling!

    And a Tweet rather than a legal letter? This is clearly not a class act.
    Last edited by Primrose; 30th April 2010 at 08:46 PM.
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