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  1. #1

    Default Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    "Stella's cooking tonight" says Barneys NY... well she oughtta be, this young'un needs a little more meat on her skeletal frame!

    The point is, when is skinny for fashion TOO skinny?

    Last edited by actiasluna; 5th June 2010 at 11:46 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    If you consider all the young people today with eating disorders, I'd say most models are too skinny.



  3. #3

    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    I am not so disturbed by the skinny model as the "domesticity chic" being presented: an haute-couture outfit and a glimpse of breast. Just what a man wants, eh? Good in the kitchen and in the bedroom...

    Actually, I like Stella McCartney for her cruelty-free stance on products. I just hope the company does not change its credo or gets bought out to a bigger conglomerate. I was so happy to have my pleather Stella bag.
    Last edited by Primrose; 6th June 2010 at 04:07 AM.
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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    I think people are completely missing the heinous cruelty to vegetables being displayed here.

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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugandaraja View Post
    I think people are completely missing the heinous cruelty to vegetables being displayed here.
    Yeah right. That's coz most of us can't think outside the circle.

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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by actiasluna View Post
    [CENTER]"Stella's cooking tonight" says Barneys NY... well she oughtta be, this young'un needs a little more meat on her skeletal frame!

    The point is, when is skinny for fashion TOO skinny?
    I don't think this particular model seems to be too skinny. She's probably young enough to still have her girlish body; I don't see any protruding bones. Many young girls and boys are very skinny naturally, but will fill out when they get a bit more mature. Of course there are models with eating disorders (goes with the territory), but the real problem starts when they become women and fill out, get wider hips. (The pressure on male models has also been getting much heavier in the past decade or so.)

    The problem, as I see it, isn't that the models are too skinny, but that we are under pressure to stay skinny forever. Of course the imagery we're presented with feeds into this, but still...

    In the past it used to be acceptable to mature and get a womanly/manly body. I'm not talking middle-age spread here, but a normal grown-up body. Now we are supposed to keep our adolescent bodies for life. And they should be hairless, of course.

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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    I just hope the company does not change its credo or gets bought out to a bigger conglomerate. I was so happy to have my pleather Stella bag.
    Just as an fyi, Stella McCartney is actually owned by the Gucci Group.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    I agree with actiasluna - she is too thin. Her thighs and arms look like those of an anorexic.
    Where anyone gets the idea that this is attractive is beyone me.
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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    An apeeling young woman although a tad skinny
    Last edited by kbe; 6th June 2010 at 11:50 AM.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    kbe heehee...

    hirch Yeah, I think there's an age at which being this thin is normal (what, at around 13? When the growth spurt surpasses the ability of the body to keep up with it and kids become "coltish")... but after that, someone this thin looks unhealthy to me. An average 18 year old woman's body isn't going to look like that of a 13 year old boy unless there's something going wrong there.

    I can see how this would be both confusing and unhealthy for young, impressionable minds. (boy do I sound like my mom here or what?)... and primrose, I too get that odd combo of messages. Of course it looks like she's doing a perfectly crap job of peeling the taters, so what does THAT say?
    Last edited by actiasluna; 6th June 2010 at 12:52 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    I'd say this particular example is maybe five, ten pounds beneath a healthy weight, but she's by far not the most extreme I've seen in the modeling industry. There are some scary skeleons out there, and this girl at least has some breasts and an ounce of flesh on her.

    While there will always be good reasons for wanting lanky girls to show off clothes, I think the current fashion for extreme skinniness is in reaction to the obesity epidemic in first world countries. In other words, as long as most of us are fat, super-thin with be the ultimate body. I think there's a parallel between that and cultural attraction to chubbiness in west African countries where looking model-thin is much more common, but just as deadly and rarely by choice.

    It would be nice if humanity, as a whole, could figure out a healthy approach to diet and body image, but we seem to forever be exemplifying extremes, and paying the physical toll for it, fat or skinny.

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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugandaraja View Post
    While there will always be good reasons for wanting lanky girls to show off clothes, I think the current fashion for extreme skinniness is in reaction to the obesity epidemic in first world countries. In other words, as long as most of us are fat, super-thin with be the ultimate body. I think there's a parallel between that and cultural attraction to chubbiness in west African countries where looking model-thin is much more common, but just as deadly and rarely by choice.
    I really don't think the fashion for extreme thinness is a reaction against obesity - rather, they are two sides of the same coin and it would be impossible to tell which is the hen and which is the egg. These things are much more complex than that, and the fashion for thinness is both far older and far more widespread than what you call the obesity epidemic (I'm not sure I can sign onto that either, but I don't have much in the way of facts). There is a correlation between the availability of food and physical ideals, but more factors than that come into play.

    Saying that chubbiness is as deadly as thinness is comparing apples and oranges. Yes, lots of people die of conditions in which overweight is a factor, but lots of people are perfectly healthy with a bit of overweight as well - especially women, who are less prone to the really unhealthy kinds of overweight than men are, yet under far greater pressure from society to be thin.
    Anorexia, while rather a rare condition, is statistically one of the deadliest mental illnesses, and survivors are often left with permanently damaged bodies. Milder eating disorders are common and have quite significant effects on the sufferer's general health and quality of life.

    As for the model, I've seen worse, but please remember that this is editorial fashion photography - it's highly unlikely that this photo has not been retouched, I think it probable that a certain amount of smoothing out of protruding bones, etc has been done here.

    Edit: Oh, and the reasons for showing clothes on lanky girls are completely relative to the current physique de jour - fashionable clothes are made for the currently fashionable body, which is tall and thin now, but was shorter and extremely curvaceous with a somewhat protruding belly and a huge behind only 130 years ago, just to pick an example. The common saying that models are tall and thin because all clothes look better on tall and thin people is bullshit. It depends entirely on the clothes, and bodies are subject to changing fashions in the same way that clothes are.
    Last edited by Pimpinett; 13th August 2010 at 09:19 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    Aside from the fact that the model has probably been extensively Photoshopped, the thing I notice is that she has virtually no sign of any muscles. A person this thin would normally have a bit of muscle definition. In my opinion, the disturbing aspect of this is the impression of weakness that the image projects, both in terms of the frail body and the lack of any sort of affect in her facial expression.
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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    I completely missed this thread !
    That model is very young, she's skinny ...let's wait till she's about my age and see what she's got !
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/370...o-Profumo-Onda
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  15. #15
    Hillaire
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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    I personally don't think she looks too thin. I was that thin at that age. Her hair is full; her neck is not gaunt.

    What I did pick up on was a perhaps unnatural shape to the thigh, due to over-Photo-shopping. Either too "stretched" or too "shaved", the thighs look slightly off to me.

    I have noticed that with new developments in Photo shop technology, a trend has emerged to overly-attenuate and idealise the photographed human form (like comic artists do), to distort proportions beyond the capacity of nature. I wonder how much of that effort is digested by youth as a 'goal' versus understood as post-realist, modern-era image-production.

    I have seen some models who are decidedly "ill" from malnutrition, I should add. I don't deny the correlation between fashion industry body-pressures and anorexia, in a vulnerable sub set of working models.
    Last edited by Hillaire; 13th August 2010 at 11:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    You're probably right- photo shop Hillaire- her thighs look like they've been shaved abit ....
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/370...o-Profumo-Onda
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    She looks fine, I should look so fine. As for anorexics, I have seen plenty of them up close and they don't look like her, at least not the ones we worry about, with the lanugo, feeding tubes and sundry other issues

  18. #18

    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    S.M. is selling to 14 to 16 years olds with too much makeup?

    The girl is thin but from this particular picture she doesn't look unhealthy.

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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    So this will either ruffle feathers or go completely ignored.
    I agree with those of you who say she looks way photoshopped but not unnatural, and not necessarily unhealthy, but with all the said photoshopping, who knows..

    However, I sort of think we're so used to seeing overweight and grossly overweight that thin/skinny looks abnormal. Fuller bodies are becoming more in vogue, as I understand it, maybe because it's to hard to find the size 0-2 ideal. I don't know. I'm not skinny, I certainly have curves, but my weight is never something I've had to worry about, like I've always had a good stomach regardless of 10 extra lbs. But I work at looking my best and to be frank, I'm a little put off with all this "accept yourself as you are" in terms of any particular weight being beautiful. High self-esteem and body confidence at any size is a wonderful thing, don't get me wrong, but if you could look better, wouldn't you want to at least try? It's like there's this push that if you want to be fat, that's okay. Don't worry about eating right and excercizing, you're alright! Love your rolls! Like being thin and toned is sort of becoming gauche.
    I'm not propagating unhealthy and malnourished models, either. It's all good as long as you're healthy, and the fact is that there is a certain bmi that indicates healthiness and one that indicates overweight, and I feel like overweight is beginning to get a free pass to carry on as normal, to the point where we're being told that obesity isn't "your" fault, it's the fault of trans fats and high fructose corn syrup, and let me tell ya, if we start banning additives, we're on a very slippery slope.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    Normalizing obesity = giving up.

    Fat people aren't necessarily lazy, character-less, gluttonous couch potatoes. Some of them can be, but so can slim people.

    The human body is naturally fairly slim and athletic if we study old populations eating a traditional diet. It's not normal to balloon up, but given the carb-loaded junkfood diets that are so prevalent these days, people do...

    Which might make obesity normal in the sense that it's common, but not normal in the sense of what people "should" look like if they eat a diet we've evolved to eat.

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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO


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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    That is a good article, Tott. One of the things that really bugs me is how many obese people make excuses for their weight (like I said above, for instance, food additives.) I had an argument with my obese m-i-l about this, how you don't need to go all prepackaged food on yourself, and she retorted with the cost issue. So I told her it costs the same amount of money to buy yourself a yogurt and a banana as it does a candy bar, and that most vegetables, especially when you buy seasonal, are cheap. Green cabbage usually runs about $0.69/lb., less than $2 for a head. "But lots of people don't know how to cook with cabbage!" she said. The only solution she would accept is the banning of additives in boxed goods. So right there she is excusing the laziness of people who don't want to go figure out how to saute a head of cabbage by saying, "It's not their fault, they just don't know how!"
    It is every bit about being lazy and having no self-control. Friends and family suffer for the laziness. I've been accused of having something wrong with me for needing to bundle up in a blanket in the home of an obese person who has to have central air at a ridiculously low temp at all times.
    I used to be a cashier, and I can't tell you how many motorized cart-riding obese folks came through my line eating candy bars because their glucose had crashed. Or they'd buy cakes because damnit, they felt like it, and no one's going to tell them how to eat. Now I work in a pharmacy where I see gov't-subsidized programs paying for these folks' brand-name insulin, syringes, test strips, etc. My m-i-l is actually diabetic. She dieted herself away from the brink of insulin dependence, then stopped.
    It is all about choice.

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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    Sorry, actias, to take this so far off-topic. My answer to your original question is this. When a model's bones are jutting out all over the place and the knees are wider than the thighs, that is too skinny, imo. I guess what I'm trying to say is thin does not = unhealthy, and I think it's too bad that this is the stigma being places upon (sorry..) those with no rolls.
    Last edited by Sunnyfunny; 14th August 2010 at 08:27 PM. Reason: a wayward S

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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnyfunny View Post
    It is all about choice.
    Well, yes, but first we need to understand our options so that we can make an informed choice.

    Governments and organisations everywhere are telling people to cut back on fats, especially saturated fats, eat more fruit and vegetables and eat more grains. The common low fat, high carb diet we're told is healthy. The same high carb principle is used to fatten pigs, and evidently it's working well to fatten people up as well.

    And if we need to drop some weight we're told to simply eat less of the things that make us fat and hungry, and exercise more. The problem is that no-one wants to stay hungry for long.

    A low carb, high fat diet is more in line with what we've evolved to eat, it's healthier and is also easier to stick to since you won't have to battle hunger and cravings. This is the kind of diet we're told is dangerous.

    The kind of diet that will tackle problems like obesity and diabetes is the one we're warned about. If you believe that this diet will kill you, you won't be able to make a smart choice.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    What happend to the curvy models like marilyn monroe
    jayne mansfield a size 8 or a 10 should be perfect for women
    i just sick at all these size 0 girls

  26. #26
    Hillaire
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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    Marilyn Monroe would fit easily into a modern size two today (She weighed 112 pounds.); she was curvy, but also tiny, delicate, and actually quite slim by today's standards.She's be comparable to Kate Moss, and could easily model in today's fashion world.



    I think Tott's link applies to this type of changing hindsight, too. Average women used to be much trimmer. And what I see described as 'curvy' today, is often euphemistic for borderline obesity. I really don't think sizes can be thrown out as ideals or aspersions, either. Sizes have radically changed in past decades, to deceive and placate consumers as well as to maintain sales (which any of us who have tried on a teensy, size twelve vintage dress can attest to). And size is also totally relative: A size ten might perfectly healthy for one person, and very overweight for another. I also know several healthy -- albeit little -- size zeros, myself included.

    That said, I prefer the more shapely, mature slim figure ideal, like Fran Drescher, for example (watching 'The Nanny'), to the not-yet-grown-up body ideal I see everywhere, too.

    And I personally think the creepiest, female body-ideals I see in the media are the overly-tanned anorexic-body-with-fake-boobs look:

    and the overly-muscled, hip-less, six-pack and pecs with fake boobs look, which is arguably "strong", but really odd.
    Last edited by Hillaire; 17th August 2010 at 05:25 AM.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    The models used for fashion shows and ads are essentially walking clothes hangers.

    I think that the designers prefer very thin models because they allow the clothes to hang and drape without interference from the body.

    What I don't understand is why they want to design clothes which look good only on people who only exist in an extremely small minority -- the unnaturally thin.

    Most of those models gross me out. I don't find them attractive at all. Neither their thinness nor their usual stone-faced glaring do anything for me.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    I can't stand the fake boob thing- they look fake - like beach balls under the skin. I'm happy with my 'fried eggs' ! I can run and jump about !!!!!*LOL*
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/370...o-Profumo-Onda
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  29. #29

    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    I was a mode a while back, and had to to some photos with girls and such.

    And I can say, that most of them weren't as the first picture. They weren't anorexic. They ate fairly normal (almost no greasy foods, or sugar bomb snacks... Twix and all of that) they spent like two hours daily in the gym doing all type of exercises to get the body they wanted.

    It's also a world with a lot of competition. It's extremly hard to get to the top, and girls get obsesed with their bodies and will do anything to get into a magazine.. even if that means eating carrots oranges and apples for a week.

    Personally, I don't think she looks way to think. She's a young girl, and she was probablly born with a metabolisim that makes shapes her body skinny.

    The problem is the girls that are born with a metabolisim that makes them go fat (for me it isin't a problem). They see this picture, and think, oh my, I'm horrible, nobody will want me because i'm fat.. untill they take drastic mesures... like not eating!

  30. #30

    Default Re: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnyfunny View Post
    So I told her it costs the same amount of money to buy yourself a yogurt and a banana as it does a candy bar, and that most vegetables, especially when you buy seasonal, are cheap. Green cabbage usually runs about $0.69/lb., less than $2 for a head.
    I agree with most everything you said, but one thing to keep in mind is that although the price for vegetables and such may seem to be similar to (or cheaper than) the junk food that people often buy, if you compare the cost per calorie of the foods, the junk food is often radically cheaper. For people with low income, especially those with a family, the cost per calorie becomes far more important. A $2 or $3 bag of carrots may yield 500 calories while a $2 or $3 bag of chips will yield more like 1500.

    A lot of this has to do with the farm bill and all of the subsidies it provides for corn, etc.
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