If you consider all the young people today with eating disorders, I'd say most models are too skinny.
Thread: Somewhat disturbing imagery IMO
"Stella's cooking tonight" says Barneys NY... well she oughtta be, this young'un needs a little more meat on her skeletal frame!
The point is, when is skinny for fashion TOO skinny?
Last edited by actiasluna; 6th June 2010 at 12:46 AM.
If you consider all the young people today with eating disorders, I'd say most models are too skinny.
I am not so disturbed by the skinny model as the "domesticity chic" being presented: an haute-couture outfit and a glimpse of breast. Just what a man wants, eh? Good in the kitchen and in the bedroom...
Actually, I like Stella McCartney for her cruelty-free stance on products. I just hope the company does not change its credo or gets bought out to a bigger conglomerate. I was so happy to have my pleather Stella bag.
Last edited by Primrose; 6th June 2010 at 05:07 AM.
"No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.
I think people are completely missing the heinous cruelty to vegetables being displayed here.
The problem, as I see it, isn't that the models are too skinny, but that we are under pressure to stay skinny forever. Of course the imagery we're presented with feeds into this, but still...
In the past it used to be acceptable to mature and get a womanly/manly body. I'm not talking middle-age spread here, but a normal grown-up body. Now we are supposed to keep our adolescent bodies for life. And they should be hairless, of course.
I agree with actiasluna - she is too thin. Her thighs and arms look like those of an anorexic.
Where anyone gets the idea that this is attractive is beyone me.
An apeeling young woman although a tad skinny
Last edited by kbe; 6th June 2010 at 12:50 PM.
There are three kinds of people in this world: those who understand math and those who don't (four out of three people surveyed agree with this).
hirch Yeah, I think there's an age at which being this thin is normal (what, at around 13? When the growth spurt surpasses the ability of the body to keep up with it and kids become "coltish")... but after that, someone this thin looks unhealthy to me. An average 18 year old woman's body isn't going to look like that of a 13 year old boy unless there's something going wrong there.
I can see how this would be both confusing and unhealthy for young, impressionable minds. (boy do I sound like my mom here or what?)... and primrose, I too get that odd combo of messages. Of course it looks like she's doing a perfectly crap job of peeling the taters, so what does THAT say?
Last edited by actiasluna; 6th June 2010 at 01:52 PM.
I'd say this particular example is maybe five, ten pounds beneath a healthy weight, but she's by far not the most extreme I've seen in the modeling industry. There are some scary skeleons out there, and this girl at least has some breasts and an ounce of flesh on her.
While there will always be good reasons for wanting lanky girls to show off clothes, I think the current fashion for extreme skinniness is in reaction to the obesity epidemic in first world countries. In other words, as long as most of us are fat, super-thin with be the ultimate body. I think there's a parallel between that and cultural attraction to chubbiness in west African countries where looking model-thin is much more common, but just as deadly and rarely by choice.
It would be nice if humanity, as a whole, could figure out a healthy approach to diet and body image, but we seem to forever be exemplifying extremes, and paying the physical toll for it, fat or skinny.
Saying that chubbiness is as deadly as thinness is comparing apples and oranges. Yes, lots of people die of conditions in which overweight is a factor, but lots of people are perfectly healthy with a bit of overweight as well - especially women, who are less prone to the really unhealthy kinds of overweight than men are, yet under far greater pressure from society to be thin.
Anorexia, while rather a rare condition, is statistically one of the deadliest mental illnesses, and survivors are often left with permanently damaged bodies. Milder eating disorders are common and have quite significant effects on the sufferer's general health and quality of life.
As for the model, I've seen worse, but please remember that this is editorial fashion photography - it's highly unlikely that this photo has not been retouched, I think it probable that a certain amount of smoothing out of protruding bones, etc has been done here.
Edit: Oh, and the reasons for showing clothes on lanky girls are completely relative to the current physique de jour - fashionable clothes are made for the currently fashionable body, which is tall and thin now, but was shorter and extremely curvaceous with a somewhat protruding belly and a huge behind only 130 years ago, just to pick an example. The common saying that models are tall and thin because all clothes look better on tall and thin people is bullshit. It depends entirely on the clothes, and bodies are subject to changing fashions in the same way that clothes are.
Last edited by Pimpinett; 13th August 2010 at 10:19 AM.
Aside from the fact that the model has probably been extensively Photoshopped, the thing I notice is that she has virtually no sign of any muscles. A person this thin would normally have a bit of muscle definition. In my opinion, the disturbing aspect of this is the impression of weakness that the image projects, both in terms of the frail body and the lack of any sort of affect in her facial expression.
I completely missed this thread !
That model is very young, she's skinny ...let's wait till she's about my age and see what she's got !
I personally don't think she looks too thin. I was that thin at that age. Her hair is full; her neck is not gaunt.
What I did pick up on was a perhaps unnatural shape to the thigh, due to over-Photo-shopping. Either too "stretched" or too "shaved", the thighs look slightly off to me.
I have noticed that with new developments in Photo shop technology, a trend has emerged to overly-attenuate and idealise the photographed human form (like comic artists do), to distort proportions beyond the capacity of nature. I wonder how much of that effort is digested by youth as a 'goal' versus understood as post-realist, modern-era image-production.
I have seen some models who are decidedly "ill" from malnutrition, I should add. I don't deny the correlation between fashion industry body-pressures and anorexia, in a vulnerable sub set of working models.
Last edited by Hillaire; 14th August 2010 at 12:26 AM.
You're probably right- photo shop Hillaire- her thighs look like they've been shaved abit ....
She looks fine, I should look so fine. As for anorexics, I have seen plenty of them up close and they don't look like her, at least not the ones we worry about, with the lanugo, feeding tubes and sundry other issues
S.M. is selling to 14 to 16 years olds with too much makeup?
The girl is thin but from this particular picture she doesn't look unhealthy.
So this will either ruffle feathers or go completely ignored.
I agree with those of you who say she looks way photoshopped but not unnatural, and not necessarily unhealthy, but with all the said photoshopping, who knows..
However, I sort of think we're so used to seeing overweight and grossly overweight that thin/skinny looks abnormal. Fuller bodies are becoming more in vogue, as I understand it, maybe because it's to hard to find the size 0-2 ideal. I don't know. I'm not skinny, I certainly have curves, but my weight is never something I've had to worry about, like I've always had a good stomach regardless of 10 extra lbs. But I work at looking my best and to be frank, I'm a little put off with all this "accept yourself as you are" in terms of any particular weight being beautiful. High self-esteem and body confidence at any size is a wonderful thing, don't get me wrong, but if you could look better, wouldn't you want to at least try? It's like there's this push that if you want to be fat, that's okay. Don't worry about eating right and excercizing, you're alright! Love your rolls! Like being thin and toned is sort of becoming gauche.
I'm not propagating unhealthy and malnourished models, either. It's all good as long as you're healthy, and the fact is that there is a certain bmi that indicates healthiness and one that indicates overweight, and I feel like overweight is beginning to get a free pass to carry on as normal, to the point where we're being told that obesity isn't "your" fault, it's the fault of trans fats and high fructose corn syrup, and let me tell ya, if we start banning additives, we're on a very slippery slope.
Normalizing obesity = giving up.
Fat people aren't necessarily lazy, character-less, gluttonous couch potatoes. Some of them can be, but so can slim people.
The human body is naturally fairly slim and athletic if we study old populations eating a traditional diet. It's not normal to balloon up, but given the carb-loaded junkfood diets that are so prevalent these days, people do...
Which might make obesity normal in the sense that it's common, but not normal in the sense of what people "should" look like if they eat a diet we've evolved to eat.
That is a good article, Tott. One of the things that really bugs me is how many obese people make excuses for their weight (like I said above, for instance, food additives.) I had an argument with my obese m-i-l about this, how you don't need to go all prepackaged food on yourself, and she retorted with the cost issue. So I told her it costs the same amount of money to buy yourself a yogurt and a banana as it does a candy bar, and that most vegetables, especially when you buy seasonal, are cheap. Green cabbage usually runs about $0.69/lb., less than $2 for a head. "But lots of people don't know how to cook with cabbage!" she said. The only solution she would accept is the banning of additives in boxed goods. So right there she is excusing the laziness of people who don't want to go figure out how to saute a head of cabbage by saying, "It's not their fault, they just don't know how!"
It is every bit about being lazy and having no self-control. Friends and family suffer for the laziness. I've been accused of having something wrong with me for needing to bundle up in a blanket in the home of an obese person who has to have central air at a ridiculously low temp at all times.
I used to be a cashier, and I can't tell you how many motorized cart-riding obese folks came through my line eating candy bars because their glucose had crashed. Or they'd buy cakes because damnit, they felt like it, and no one's going to tell them how to eat. Now I work in a pharmacy where I see gov't-subsidized programs paying for these folks' brand-name insulin, syringes, test strips, etc. My m-i-l is actually diabetic. She dieted herself away from the brink of insulin dependence, then stopped.
It is all about choice.
Sorry, actias, to take this so far off-topic. My answer to your original question is this. When a model's bones are jutting out all over the place and the knees are wider than the thighs, that is too skinny, imo. I guess what I'm trying to say is thin does not = unhealthy, and I think it's too bad that this is the stigma being places upon (sorry..) those with no rolls.
Last edited by Sunnyfunny; 14th August 2010 at 09:27 PM. Reason: a wayward S
Governments and organisations everywhere are telling people to cut back on fats, especially saturated fats, eat more fruit and vegetables and eat more grains. The common low fat, high carb diet we're told is healthy. The same high carb principle is used to fatten pigs, and evidently it's working well to fatten people up as well.
And if we need to drop some weight we're told to simply eat less of the things that make us fat and hungry, and exercise more. The problem is that no-one wants to stay hungry for long.
A low carb, high fat diet is more in line with what we've evolved to eat, it's healthier and is also easier to stick to since you won't have to battle hunger and cravings. This is the kind of diet we're told is dangerous.
The kind of diet that will tackle problems like obesity and diabetes is the one we're warned about. If you believe that this diet will kill you, you won't be able to make a smart choice.
What happend to the curvy models like marilyn monroe
jayne mansfield a size 8 or a 10 should be perfect for women
i just sick at all these size 0 girls
Marilyn Monroe would fit easily into a modern size two today (She weighed 112 pounds.); she was curvy, but also tiny, delicate, and actually quite slim by today's standards.She's be comparable to Kate Moss, and could easily model in today's fashion world.
I think Tott's link applies to this type of changing hindsight, too. Average women used to be much trimmer. And what I see described as 'curvy' today, is often euphemistic for borderline obesity. I really don't think sizes can be thrown out as ideals or aspersions, either. Sizes have radically changed in past decades, to deceive and placate consumers as well as to maintain sales (which any of us who have tried on a teensy, size twelve vintage dress can attest to). And size is also totally relative: A size ten might perfectly healthy for one person, and very overweight for another. I also know several healthy -- albeit little -- size zeros, myself included.
That said, I prefer the more shapely, mature slim figure ideal, like Fran Drescher, for example (watching 'The Nanny'), to the not-yet-grown-up body ideal I see everywhere, too.
And I personally think the creepiest, female body-ideals I see in the media are the overly-tanned anorexic-body-with-fake-boobs look:
and the overly-muscled, hip-less, six-pack and pecs with fake boobs look, which is arguably "strong", but really odd.
Last edited by Hillaire; 17th August 2010 at 06:25 AM.
The models used for fashion shows and ads are essentially walking clothes hangers.
I think that the designers prefer very thin models because they allow the clothes to hang and drape without interference from the body.
What I don't understand is why they want to design clothes which look good only on people who only exist in an extremely small minority -- the unnaturally thin.
Most of those models gross me out. I don't find them attractive at all. Neither their thinness nor their usual stone-faced glaring do anything for me.
I can't stand the fake boob thing- they look fake - like beach balls under the skin. I'm happy with my 'fried eggs' ! I can run and jump about !!!!!*LOL*
I was a mode a while back, and had to to some photos with girls and such.
And I can say, that most of them weren't as the first picture. They weren't anorexic. They ate fairly normal (almost no greasy foods, or sugar bomb snacks... Twix and all of that) they spent like two hours daily in the gym doing all type of exercises to get the body they wanted.
It's also a world with a lot of competition. It's extremly hard to get to the top, and girls get obsesed with their bodies and will do anything to get into a magazine.. even if that means eating carrots oranges and apples for a week.
Personally, I don't think she looks way to think. She's a young girl, and she was probablly born with a metabolisim that makes shapes her body skinny.
The problem is the girls that are born with a metabolisim that makes them go fat (for me it isin't a problem). They see this picture, and think, oh my, I'm horrible, nobody will want me because i'm fat.. untill they take drastic mesures... like not eating!
A lot of this has to do with the farm bill and all of the subsidies it provides for corn, etc.
These are real women
bring back the curves in Models
There are three kinds of people in this world: those who understand math and those who don't (four out of three people surveyed agree with this).
I just do not understand why so many folks do not want to look and feel their best. It's all linked, your diet, mood, self-esteem, whatever ails ya. It boggles my mind and frustrates me to no end.
The reasons that people are fat (or thin) are complex and varied, and are still not fully understood by medical professionals. It is NOT all about choice. That may explain why some people are fat or thin, but please refrain from applying a blanket judgment to all people, even if you're their doctor or registered dietician.
If being fat were just a question of willpower, we would have very few fat people in the world. The fat people I know all have a tremendous amount of willpower. They manage to get college degrees, raise special needs kids, maintain marriages for extended periods of time, pay down thousands of dollars in credit card debt, avoid unintended pregnancies by practicing self control and consistent use of birth control, run half-marathons, etc. Just a few examples of things they regularly accomplish that require a tremendous amount of willpower.
Poor food choice and lack of exercise may explain why some people are fat. Medical science is suggesting there are complex physiological and hormonal factors at play that willpower/dieting/exercise will not necessarily address, and that we don't fully understand yet. Bariatric surgery (aka gastric bypass) is fast proving to be a reliable method of treating diabetes, even in people who are not overweight to begin with or who do not end up losing a great deal of weight as a result of their surgery. Some people find their diabetes disappears within days or weeks of the surgery and doesn't return even if they gain their weight back.
If you've had the good fortune to be born healthy, into a family genetically predisposed to good health and a slender body, and you've had adequate family income and education to have nutritious food available throughout your upbringing, consider yourself lucky. If you've made it through life so far without getting cancer, having your thyroid go haywire, developing polycystic ovaries, kidney disease, ulcerative colitis, celiac disease, MS, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome or any of the myriad medical problems that can cause someone to gain or lose a lot of weight, you're even luckier. If you've been fortunate to avoid car accidents and always have the use of all four limbs, luckier still. Had an emotionally supportive, non-abusive family, and managed to avoid being sexually assaulted, and you've never been dumped by a loved one and found yourself eating (or not eating) in a misguided attempt to fill a void or avoid dealing with an emotion you would rather not experience? Count your blessings each and every day and I wish you the best of luck that none of the physical or emotional misfortunes I just described ever happen to you.
Maybe the person riding on that cart was born a Type I diabetic and can no longer walk due to amputation or diabetic neuropathy. Was that their choice?
I'm sorry, Sunnyfunny, if your mother-in-law's obesity has caused you to suffer somehow, but your experience with her and what you consider to be the reasons for her obesity/diabetes simply don't apply to everybody.
Fat people (or people who are too thin) are aware of how they look. Judging them or assuming you know what their problem is and how to fix it does not help at all.
Back to the original point of this thread: yes, the model looks a little skinny and re-touched to me, but I've certainly seen worse in Harper's Bazaar and Vogue. I do believe there are a few people in this world who come by that figure naturally, but they're in the minority. It's a shame that they've become the gold standard by which the beauty (and health!) of all others are measured. I wish that fashion appreciated and celebrated the diveristy of body shapes and sizes found in the world instead of making us ashamed if we don't fit into their tiny little "box."
Just to be different, now there's a novelty for me, and to lighten this somewhat.
I actually find the imagery not disturbing but absurd. The model is tarted up to the nines, a frightening amount of eye make up and rather oddly lit. You can't really see the clothes she is supposed to be modelling.
She is perched on a chair peeling potatoes, very badly, so the peel drops on the floor, how unhygienic. I hope she's going to put on a vest before she fries those things, think of the oil splatter.
It all looks a bit ridiculous.
"What out, you might get what you're after" Talking Heads
Hey Nebraska, I just now saw this.
Overeating is an addiction like any other. Gamblers/alcoholics/etc. can live fruitful, productive lives, too, but they happen to have an addiction.If being fat were just a question of willpower, we would have very few fat people in the world. The fat people I know all have a tremendous amount of willpower. They manage to get college degrees, raise special needs kids, maintain marriages for extended periods of time, pay down thousands of dollars in credit card debt, avoid unintended pregnancies by practicing self control and consistent use of birth control, run half-marathons, etc. Just a few examples of things they regularly accomplish that require a tremendous amount of willpower.
I already addressed this; what is healthy is, incidentally, what is cost-effective, and if you feel people of a lower income have somehow managed to not be educated on what is nutritious, well, they still have common sense.If you've had the good fortune to be born healthy, into a family genetically predisposed to good health and a slender body, and you've had adequate family income and education to have nutritious food available throughout your upbringing, consider yourself lucky.
Is this a free pass to let anyone who's endured hardship in their life go on being miserable, because of their extenuating circumstances? I'm thinking we just have a different philosophy on life, maybe, Nebraska. You don't have control over everything that happens to you. You do have control over how you deal with it.If you've made it through life so far without getting cancer, having your thyroid go haywire, developing polycystic ovaries, kidney disease, ulcerative colitis, celiac disease, MS, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome or any of the myriad medical problems that can cause someone to gain or lose a lot of weight, you're even luckier. If you've been fortunate to avoid car accidents and always have the use of all four limbs, luckier still. Had an emotionally supportive, non-abusive family, and managed to avoid being sexually assaulted, and you've never been dumped by a loved one and found yourself eating (or not eating) in a misguided attempt to fill a void or avoid dealing with an emotion you would rather not experience? Count your blessings each and every day and I wish you the best of luck that none of the physical or emotional misfortunes I just described ever happen to you.
Maybe. How many times might this person's doctor told her that she needed to follow a diet or she'd lose an extremity, and she decided to go with the cake, anyway? I've had this conversation with my husband before (he works in an outpatient clinic), how many diabetics let it get to that point and still don't choose to amend their lifestyles.Maybe the person riding on that cart was born a Type I diabetic and can no longer walk due to amputation or diabetic neuropathy. Was that their choice?
Hmm. My m-i-l's obesity has caused me to suffer only in how I see it affecting my husband and his brothers, and how it has affected them throughout their lives. What I personally experience with her relating to her obesity is usually just a minor annoyance (like the sub-zero temps in the house.) I do wish I could go out shopping with her, or get all dolled up for a girls' night out, but I hurt for my husband. I wish his mother would have made different decisions along the way and taken a more active role in her kids' lives. I wish she would realize the time she has left, now that they are grown, and do something about it now, but she won't. At least she hasn't. Her life would be so much richer for it, too. I'm not sure what I wrote that lead you to think I believe her reasons for her obesity apply to everybody. I disclosed very little about her, in fact. The common thread is that there are always choices to be made. You are not bound by your problems and I am sorry for you if you feel you are. You are always responsible for yourself. I'm not even trying to be judgmental. We all have stuff we need to overcome. That's all.I'm sorry, Sunnyfunny, if your mother-in-law's obesity has caused you to suffer somehow, but your experience with her and what you consider to be the reasons for her obesity/diabetes simply don't apply to everybody.
I appreciate your clarifications and response, Sunnyfunny. Perhaps I read something into what you wrote that wasn't intended, and I think it's possible you've done the same with my response. I'm sure this conversation would have gone differently if we were having it in person, but that's the internet for ya.
What follows is not so much a response to your specific comments, but some general food for thought.
Everyone needs to eat healthy and take good care of themselves. No one should get a free pass, yet this happens every day. Thin people who don't eat well but manage to stay thin (but maybe have high cholesterol, high blood pressure, etc.) slip by without judgment or maybe even get praise for maintaining an acceptable weight and appearance. Same thing with someone who stays thin by skipping meals and is suffering from malnutrition. One indicator of their health--weight--is automatically giving them a free pass for meeting a societal norm about appearance and supposed good health. On the flipside, people who are big are automatically subject to extra scrutiny and assumptions, no matter how healthy their eating and exercise habits and how low their blood pressure and cholesterol are.
People see a fat person with a cake in their cart at the supermarket and think they know the whole story. Does anyone look at a thin person who is buying only a mini-bag of baby carrots and wonder if that's the only thing they're going to eat today? Both of those people may well be fighting a tough battle and be deserving of our compassion. Both of these people may also be healthy and may be buying cake or carrots simply because they're hungry. No one can really know anything based on their appearance or what they have put in the carts. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and to have their privacy respected.
glamour models have become walking sinews basically. i'm sure most guys will share my view, namely, skeletons like anja rubik are not, in the slightest, erotically appealing. far more importantly, however, the fact that it's fashion designers who take the responsibility for those girls' ghastly appearance, goes without saying.
Last edited by fountain; 13th October 2010 at 08:35 PM.
This thread needs some pictures of Christina Hendricks...
Definitely agreed. I wonder what happened along the way from when we liked women to have curves. I can't stand a girl that's too thin. When I was talking to my ever lovely Kristyface, she was saying that she wishes she could have a six pack. Luckily I intervened and said, "you know all those nude paintings from back in the day? They painted what they felt women and men SHOULD look like. And they didn't have six packs. They looked like you"
I too think that it all comes down to choice, but on the flipside, I don't think everyone is actually as "free" to make the choice as perhaps you or I are. To use a not-entirely-analogous example.. is someone who was neglected as a child during critical developmental years, and later exposed to very poor inner city schooling, really "free" to make the choice to get the education needed to say, become a doctor? Sure, theoretically there are no external constraints, but there are internal constraints (or at least, extreme challenges) that are not obvious to anyone else from the outside, that are a result of that person's upbringing - most of which was outside of their control. Thus, I think we respond with more compassion and less condemnation. While everyone is free to make any choice in the world, it's not really that simple.