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  1. #1

    Default Creed Royal Warrants

    On the Creed website Blog, they show a Royal Warrant from the Queen of Spain appointed Creed and Sons as official perfumers. These historical documents are quite fascinating. I understand they have a collection of such documents at the Boutique. It would be wonderful to see them in person.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    I concur

    and I find it SO coincidental that the Creed-haters who doubt the company's history are deafeningly silent.




    As CREED celebrates its 250th year, a review of its archives reveals letters and orders from royalty, statesmen, First Ladies, champion athletes, world famous artists, legendary business chiefs, headliners and other VIPs. Among these treasures are CREED’s Royal Warrants of Appointment, papers issued by kings or queens when they named CREED their official fragrance supplier. An example is CREED’s royal warrant from Queen Maria Cristina of Spain, the great niece of Marie Antoinette of France.

    Queen Maria Cristina aspired to make a style statement like her famous French relative (but without sparking a revolution). The Spanish queen appointed CREED her perfumer on June 25, 1885, knowing that CREED, then more than 100 years old, was a choice at once elegant and popular across Europe.


    Two of CREED’s creations for Maria Cristina are still available to our clients today. Vanisia, a blend of vanilla, rose, sandalwood and jasmine, is a true accoutrement of monarchy. CREED’s Royal Delight is an endearing blend of tangerine, bergamot, jasmine, violet and leather
    Last edited by TalkingMuffin; 11th August 2010 at 02:11 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quite a few BNers have visited the boutique in the past month and posted their account here but no mention of the warrants on display.

    Kevin/Ruggles, you live in the area - any luck spotting these at the boutique ?
    -

  4. #4

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Oh yeah, I agree. We are the few who could further appreciate those documents because of our hobby. Of course some would appreciate them simply for the age and history.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    The Queen of Spain warrant is a new one on display.

    And that Royal Delight is from the vault.

    I dont believe anyone knew about this.
    -

  6. #6

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by TalkingMuffin View Post
    I concur

    and I find it SO coincidental that the Creed-haters who doubt the company's history are deafeningly silent.
    Perhaps a picture is worth a thousand words?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert G. View Post
    Perhaps a picture is worth a thousand words?
    It's forged. What now?! HUH?!?!?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    IMO, anyone who factors in history to their fragrance purchases is fooling themselves.
    A rich, authentic history, or a false, imagined history, makes zero difference as to the batch of any particular scent one is consuming in 2010. These may have some great value for historians and such, and may help greatly with brand identity and brand image, but all CREED needs to do to keep my business is manufacture incredible scents of a higher caliber taste than all comp. And they seem to do that very well.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Neurosis View Post
    It's forged. What now?! HUH?!?!?
    HAHAHA...right! What else can be said.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by DULLAH View Post
    IMO, anyone who factors in history to their fragrance purchases is fooling themselves.
    A rich, authentic history, or a false, imagined history, makes zero difference as to the batch of any particular scent one is consuming in 2010. These may have some great value for historians and such, and may help greatly with brand identity and brand image, but all CREED needs to do to keep my business is manufacture incredible scents of a higher caliber taste than all comp. And they seem to do that very well.
    I agree. Penhaligons has British warrants stuck up their a** and in their shops but their stuff is some of the most mediocre in the industry and they now have a tiny fanbase (90% of which is on Badger&Blade).
    -

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    I'm glad that Creed put this up. However, I really wish the resolution was higher. I would love to translate the fine print in the upper left-hand corner, and see if there is any language mentioning perfume or supporting its inclusion in supplied goods. The nail in the coffin of the doubters is a warrant where the warrant itself or the supporting documentation mentions fragrance. It's that simple. The last argument of doubt is that the warrants were not for fragrance. The language of the fine print could settle that.

    If somebody could hit this thing with some higher resolution in a digital photo, perhaps if they see it in the boutique, I would be much obliged.

    Still - nice.

    PS - Creed could obviously just open up their books and whatnot and be done with it. But why go on the defensive? I think they've done a nice job of turning a potential marketing crisis into a marketing bonanza by dripping the faucet the way they have.

    PPS - what DULLAH said.
    * * * *

  12. #12

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Very interesting, though I agree completely with the comments made by previous posters that the quality of the fragrances matters more than their history.

    When I first tried one or two of Creed's fragrances, well before discovering any online fragrance resources, I had no knowledge whatsoever of the company's history, and had simply read the name on a list of products that someone had deemed worth trying.

    All the same, is anyone able to translate any of the legible text?
    Last edited by StewartGallacher; 11th August 2010 at 11:19 AM. Reason: Edit

  13. #13

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by DULLAH View Post
    IMO, anyone who factors in history to their fragrance purchases is fooling themselves.
    A rich, authentic history, or a false, imagined history, makes zero difference as to the batch of any particular scent one is consuming in 2010. .
    of course not. i wouldn't care if Creed was founded in 1987.

    but i constantly see people who claim that Creed lies about their heritage... until there's proof like this, then they are awwwful quiet.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    This is a great article on Creed compared to Farina:

    http://perfumedpolitics.blogspot.com...-pasts-of.html

    For the record, Creed got their start as British tailors.

    Also look at the marketing approaches of Rance (see Luca Turin's blog) and also D'Orsay (see Nigel Groom "Perfume Handbook" and Ken Leach "Perfume Presentations").
    Last edited by Primrose; 11th August 2010 at 02:34 PM.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    I agree. Penhaligons has British warrants stuck up their a** and in their shops but their stuff is some of the most mediocre in the industry and they now have a tiny fanbase (90% of which is on Badger&Blade).
    That made me laugh ! *LOL*
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/370...o-Profumo-Onda
    For sale. Carnal Flower and Vero Profumo Onda.

  16. #16

    Default Creed Royal Warrants

    Man, I like a lot of Creeds, but Penhaligons has some amazing stuff too. Some are more barbershoppish (thus the badger and blade fan club) but some of their scents really are top notch. No matter who warrants their stuff, I like them both.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    I agree. Penhaligons has British warrants stuck up their a** and in their shops but their stuff is some of the most mediocre in the industry and they now have a tiny fanbase (90% of which is on Badger&Blade).
    Many of the Penhaligon's fragrances have their admirers at Basenotes, demonstrated by numerous threads with ample praise.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by TalkingMuffin View Post
    of course not. i wouldn't care if Creed was founded in 1987.

    but i constantly see people who claim that Creed lies about their heritage... until there's proof like this, then they are awwwful quiet.
    One of the concerns is whether Creed was in the public marketplace during the time claimed. For example, one can find evidence of Guerlain in the marketplace before 1960, evidenced by ads and antique bottles. Are there antique Creed bottles dating before 1960? I don't recollect ever seeing them, nor do I recollect a thread in which they have been documented. I am not saying they don't exist; just wonder where they are.

    When one reads the description of Creed Vetiver at the Creed Boutique USA website (see: http://www.creedboutique.com/creed-p...e-vetiver.html) one reads:

    CREED Vetiver appeared in the U.S. when a new generation of Americans returning home from World War II showed the nation a continental style it had not seen before.

    So where did they buy it? I am not saying they didn't buy it, but where?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Sorry to be late to the party. The Creed Hater's secret lair in Antarctica is having trouble getting our Joop! cannon to function properly so we've been busy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I'm glad that Creed put this up. However, I really wish the resolution was higher. I would love to translate the fine print in the upper left-hand corner, and see if there is any language mentioning perfume or supporting its inclusion in supplied goods. The nail in the coffin of the doubters is a warrant where the warrant itself or the supporting documentation mentions fragrance. It's that simple. The last argument of doubt is that the warrants were not for fragrance.
    Yup, that would be perfect and the only thing they would need to do. That's the problem with the other Creed warrant's I've seen floating around, they are all for the Creed family's services as tailors and not perfume/toiletries. The Creeds are famous tailors and habit makers but I've never seen anything that documented they were also perfumers.

    Quote Originally Posted by TalkingMuffin View Post
    of course not. i wouldn't care if Creed was founded in 1987.

    but i constantly see people who claim that Creed lies about their heritage... until there's proof like this, then they are awwwful quiet.
    Good. http://www.abc-d.fr/f1 /cxqyLFR_P913550!_496/profil_245773_88.html =X
    (it's one of their incarnations, they seem to occasionally restructure and some of the info looks fishy, I just thought the coincidence was amusing)

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    So where did they buy it? I am not saying they didn't buy it, but where?
    Creed HQ. It's down a dark alley, you'll meet a guy in a poncho named Hank, he'll take you there

  21. #21

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by scentsitivity View Post
    One of the concerns is whether Creed was in the public marketplace during the time claimed. For example, one can find evidence of Guerlain in the marketplace before 1960, evidenced by ads and antique bottles. Are there antique Creed bottles dating before 1960? I don't recollect ever seeing them, nor do I recollect a thread in which they have been documented. I am not saying they don't exist; just wonder where they are.
    Creed were bespoke perfumers at that time - infact, it is still their most lucrative business. You could always walk into the boutique and buy some juice. The distribution channels weren't as vast at that time.

    Similarly, Guerlain have been issued a couple of warrants themselves..http://www.perfumeprojects.com/museu...Guerlain.shtml

    Has anyone seen their warrants? I haven't seen any on display at any Guerlain boutique in the US. Are they at the Guerlain HQ? Or on their website? I really can't believe that Guerlain were perfumers to any royal court unless I either see a high-def scan of their warrant(s) or one on display in person, perfectly translated into english word by word...until that happens I can't enjoy any of their fragrances either...
    -

  22. #22

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Zizanioides View Post

    Yup, that would be perfect and the only thing they would need to do. That's the problem with the other Creed warrant's I've seen floating around, they are all for the Creed family's services as tailors and not perfume/toiletries. The Creeds are famous tailors and habit makers but I've never seen anything that documented they were also perfumers.
    They started off as tailors. Perfumes didn't become a line of business until 1854.
    -

  23. #23

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    This is a great article on Creed compared to Farina:

    http://perfumedpolitics.blogspot.com...-pasts-of.html

    For the record, Creed got their start as British tailors.

    Also look at the marketing approaches of Rance (see Luca Turin's blog) and also D'Orsay (see Nigel Groom "Perfume Handbook" and Ken Leach "Perfume Presentations").
    Did anyone actually go into this link at all and read it? It's from the_good_life, a revered Basenoter and fragrance historian.

    http://perfumedpolitics.blogspot.com...-pasts-of.html

    I know that Guerlain has many fans and King Juan Carlos of Spain is credited (according to Luca Turin) as partially responsible for the wide re-release of Mouchoir de Monsieur.

    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...fragrance.html
    Last edited by Primrose; 11th August 2010 at 05:58 PM.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    Creed were bespoke perfumers at that time - infact, it is still their most lucrative business. You could always walk into the boutique and buy some juice. The distribution channels weren't as vast at that time.
    Is it safe to say that all Creed fragrances before "year X" (zztopp or someone else will have to fill in) were bespoke? Or were some made for general purchase? And if there were both, do we know which were for general purchase (prior to modern distribution chanels, that is)?

  25. #25

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    I know that Guerlain has many fans and King Juan Carlos of Spain is credited (according to Luca Turin) as partially responsible for the wide re-release of Mouchoir de Monsieur.

    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...fragrance.html
    Proof.

    We need cold hard proof.

    Actual documents and quotes.

    Let's hold all guilty parties to the same strict evaluation standards.

    This is the Spanish inquisition (pun intended)..
    -

  26. #26

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    the_good_life's blog is awesome.

    I can't manage to make out much from the warrant but on line 3 of the smaller text there is "Sastre" (tailor) in bold print.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    I don't really speak Spanish at all, but I had some free time so I tried to decipher as much of the image as I could and then translate it with the help of Google. I hope someone else with more expertise in the language or better eyes can fill in the blanks or fix any mistakes! I don't see anything that specifically refers to perfume, but perhaps it is there in some of the stuff I missed.

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Intendencia General de la Real Casa y Patrimonio
    S.M. La Reina Dona Maria Christina

    Atendiendo a la ____ por el Sr. Henry Creed & Sons,
    se ha dignate por Real ____ de esta ____ ____ los honoros del
    ____ de su Real Casa y el uso del escudo de Armas Reales en la ____, ____ y etiquetos del establecimiente de sastre que tiene en la cuidad de Londres.
    Y en cumplimiente de la mandate por ____ el presente
    que firmo en el Real Palacio de Madrid a 25 de Junio de 1885.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Quartermaster General of the Royal Family
    S.M. Queen Maria Christina

    Given the ____ by Mr. Henry Creed & Sons, has deign by Royal ____ ____ ____ this ____ honors of his Royal House and the use of the royal coat of arms in the ____, ____ and labels of the establishment of tailor which is in the city of London.
    And in pursuance of this mandate by ____ who signed in the Royal Palace in Madrid June 25, 1885.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    There is also an image of their warrant from Queen Victoria on their blog site, although I found it hidden in a comment to a post. It is more legible and more specifically refers to Creed's services as tailor and habit maker.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by jwpianoboe View Post
    I don't really speak Spanish at all, but I had some free time so I tried to decipher as much of the image as I could and then translate it with the help of Google. I hope someone else with more expertise in the language or better eyes can fill in the blanks or fix any mistakes! I don't see anything that specifically refers to perfume, but perhaps it is there in some of the stuff I missed.

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Intendencia General de la Real Casa y Patrimonio
    S.M. La Reina Dona Maria Christina

    Atendiendo a la ____ por el Sr. Henry Creed & Sons,
    se ha dignate por Real ____ de esta ____ ____ los honoros del
    ____ de su Real Casa y el uso del escudo de Armas Reales en la ____, ____ y etiquetos del establecimiente de sastre que tiene en la cuidad de Londres.
    Y en cumplimiente de la mandate por ____ el presente
    que firmo en el Real Palacio de Madrid a 25 de Junio de 1885.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Quartermaster General of the Royal Family
    S.M. Queen Maria Christina

    Given the ____ by Mr. Henry Creed & Sons, has deign by Royal ____ ____ ____ this ____ honors of his Royal House and the use of the royal coat of arms in the ____, ____ and labels of the establishment of tailor which is in the city of London.
    And in pursuance of this mandate by ____ who signed in the Royal Palace in Madrid June 25, 1885.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Wow, thanks for the hard work! I can't stare at the original for very long without my eyes bleeding so that couldn't have been fun.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    The Creed blog folks were astoundingly polite and fair enough to write a reply:
    "Thank you for your interest and your question about the royal warrant granted CREED by Queen Maria Cristina of Spain in 1885.

    From its founding in 1760 and over the centuries, CREED was a provider of luxury items ranging from equestrian gear and leather goods to tailored clothing, military uniforms and, of course, fine hand-made fragrances. For example, CREED in 1781 provided King George III with custom made leather gloves and a personal fragrance named Royal English leather.

    CREED’s offerings to royal houses were comprehensive, and as a royal order in the 19th century would typically consist of up to two dozen suitings and up to two fragrances, “tailor” was the often designated term on papers issued to CREED from palace clients.

    You may find it interesting that clothing bearing the CREED label is still offered today, but only at the CREED boutique at 38, Avenue Pierre 1er de Serbie in Paris. CREED shirts, ties, jackets, scarves and other items are offered in a room adjacent to the main salon where fragrances are sold."
    http://blog.creedboutique.com/about-...yals/#comments

    Unfortunately, this undermines the claim that the warrant "named CREED her official perfumer" unless tailor is somehow equivalent to perfumer. Tactfully handled but trying to pass off old documents as something they aren't and hoping no one reads them is just a little sad.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Zizanioides View Post
    Unfortunately, this undermines the claim that the warrant "named CREED her official perfumer" unless tailor is somehow equivalent to perfumer. Tactfully handled but trying to pass off old documents as something they aren't and hoping no one reads them is just a little sad.
    I don't see the word "leather" on any of these documents. That must mean Creed never created any leather stuff. Unless ofcourse like perfumes, leather was their secondary line of business..

    Also, that line reads "established as tailors in the city of London". Which is true, they were established as tailors in the city of London, but in 1885 they were in Paris.

    I think this discussion is getting a bit absurd and obsessive now to the point that not even official communication from the company is enough.....call me when the Guerlain and Chanel warrants are on display..
    -

  31. #31

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    I think this discussion is getting a bit absurd and obsessive now to the point that not even official communication from the company is enough.......
    you think? reminds me of a certain president and a bunch of racist haters demanding his birth certificate (which he has already supplied).

  32. #32

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by TalkingMuffin View Post
    you think? reminds me of a certain president and a bunch of racist haters demanding his birth certificate (which he has already supplied).
    Yes, because everyone who is critical of this president is a "racist hater". Not to start a political argument, but I'd be happy to see his college papers.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Indie_Guy View Post
    Yes, because everyone who is critical of this president is a "racist hater". Not to start a political argument, but I'd be happy to see his college papers.
    critical of his policies? that's fine and dandy.

    doubt his citizenship? racist.

  34. #34

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by TalkingMuffin View Post
    you think? reminds me of a certain president and a bunch of racist haters demanding his birth certificate (which he has already supplied).
    Ah, but even if Creed provides a verbatim translation and it says "official perfumer" some people will just say..."oh but that was a 100 years ago. Olivier wasn't even born then. Now he's in charge and his stuff is crap"....LOL

  35. #35

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by TalkingMuffin View Post
    you think? reminds me of a certain president and a bunch of racist haters demanding his birth certificate (which he has already supplied).
    Yeah, I don't think it's anything like that. This is a document that doesn't say what the company claims it says. If the President presented a Russian birth certificate that listed his birth place as Vladivostok and claimed it was proof of his US birth then it would be similar.

    Meh, it was too good to be true. Creed isn't the only perfume house to lie to consumers, just the most blatant. I know it doesn't affect most consumer decisions here but it I'm sure it does for most of the purchasing public and that's what gets my hackles up. I like the idea of basenotes as a repository of truth in a hobby where most companies lie pretty much nonstop.

  36. #36

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by TalkingMuffin View Post
    doubt his citizenship? racist.

    Well, I would just differ with you on that. Race, citizenship and nationality are three different issues. The real shame is that one would even be given cause to wonder, but hey, that's just how I feel about the guy.

    Back to Creed-- well I do find these royal warrants interesting, even if they are for clothiers. I just wonder exactly how and when Olivier decided to go about rebranding the company and building up the fragrance line. I have a few questions about their timeline. I can't get over the fact that Orange Spice (1949) is so similar to Kouros(1981). And then you have Pierre Bourdon's name in the mix of GIT/Cool Water and also Original Santal/Montblanc Individuel... you start to triangulate things and it seems like there could be some backdating going on with Orange Spice.

    I like Creed, but I find myself skeptical of some of their timelines.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Here's my take, after several years of listening to this debate. Perhaps I'm too forgiving in the eyes of some, but I'm OK with that. Marketing is... well, it's marketing.

    Every house, designer, or niche perfumer has a unique history, and I think we err in judging one by another's standards. Personally, I find Creed's carefully unspoken "real" history even more interesting and worthy than the slightly retouched one that makes for better sound bytes. Put simply, the Creeds were basically a family in the tailoring business that was blessed somewhat accidentally with an ability in perfumery - which we now clearly know is something which can be passed down the family lineage (and probably more easily than business sense, but let's not get distracted by that debate... ).

    In the case of Guerlain, this led to a long and illustrious history as perfumers per se, first and foremost, for the entire time, although they now do a brisk business in cosmetics as well.

    In the case of Creed, you might say that the company evolved into perfumery, as the true ability of the family endured, and the original business which brought them to it vanished. Personally, I think Creed's real history is rather inspiring, though I can see that it requires a bit more explanation than advertising really allows.

    Some might say it is misleading that Creed calls themselves perfumers from the moment when they were just discovering their abilities, but I think that their later success justifies their earlier claim. I know many highly educated scientists who claim they were scientists from the moment they built their first robot, mixed their first chemicals, captured their first butterfly, bought their first telescope, or blew up something in the back yard. I am willing to believe this, and to extend the same benefit of the doubt to a family business. If Creed actually made perfumes in 17-something, in whatever quantity, and kept making them afterwards, then I personally think they have a right to call themselves perfumers from that moment on.

    As for questions as to whether the modern fragrances are the same as the originals - it's impossible, so it's not fair to make the accusation. The original components, in the originally available states, don't even exist. Even the natural components now available under the same names are no longer the same (and in many cases are better). If Creed can come up with something that smells like the original REL by any method, then great. If they can make Orange Spice slightly better by borrowing tricks from other more recent perfumes, but keep it in line with the original idea, then great. If they can recreate Windsor using whatever modern methods, and include some synthetic components to make it last in the flacon for years and years, then power to them. The only thing which I would find fault with is simple - the fact that REL, Orange Spice, and Windsor did not exist at the cited dates. They could have been called anything under the sun. I doubt that Windsor was called Windsor. Whatever. Dukie's Bathwater Number Two. If it simply existed in some form, at the stated year, and Creed recreated the scent with due diligence, using modern methods, then I'm happy.

    I would not say that history of the scent is unimportant to me, because it has meaning that something which smelled like what I'm smelling existed at the time in question. Fragrance is a statement as much as words. Sometimes it's a myth, or a story, and we all agree that it's a pretty lie. The pretty lie is OK. But when we say that the smell of the fragrance is a fact, it should be as much of a fact as modern perfumery allows.
    * * * *

  38. #38

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    ...
    Last edited by Robert G.; 28th April 2011 at 06:02 AM.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Lets not turn this into a political thing.

    The explanation is quite simple - Creeds original warrants were granted to them as tailors because they were habit makers/tailors...that was their primary business. It would be absurd for a European King or Queen to grant them an "official perfumers" warrant because their primary business was not perfumery...it was an ancillary line, and as stated by creedboutique, they offered a wide variety of services alongside their primary tailoring line of business.

    Its just like how Truefitt&Hill and Crabtree&Evelyn were granted "barber/grooming" warrants by the British Royal House, because they are primarily barbershops...but that doesn't mean they didn't create any fragrances for their royal clients (which they did).

    Guerlain may have been granted a "perfumers" warrant, but that doesn't mean they didn't create a lipstick or two for their royal client (cosmetics is their ancillary business).

    For me, Creed showing these warrants clears up the biggest controversy and claims by the naysayers...that the company is fake and didn't exist until the 1980s!

    As Creed reveals more, I am sure we will see more evidence of famous consumers commenting on their fragrances...already we have documented evidence that the following stars wear and/or had a bespoke fragrance made for them:

    President Sarkozy (ViW...see recent CNBC video report on Creed sales, last month)
    Puff Daddy (MI connection well known)
    Jamie Foxx (commented on SMW in Inside magazine)
    Elton John (frequent Creed customer at Neimans in Lennox square-Atlanta)
    Chester French (american indie band - see video on youtube)
    US Olympian Evan Lysacek (ViW and MI in recent article)
    Jermaine Dupri ( www.global14.com )
    Michelle Obama (July 09 Washingtonian and others, spotted buying LiW and others in Washington DC)

    ...and this is just a list a common man like me was able to come up with. For sure there have been many high profile fans in the past...
    Last edited by zztopp; 13th August 2010 at 04:53 AM.
    -

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    ...and this is just a list a common man like me was able to come up with. For sure there have been many high profile fans in the past...
    One of the most interesting earlier (late '70's) sightings of a Creed bottle was mentioned in an article on Creed by a guy named Jon Bryant. It appeared in the May 2008 issue (#87) of France Magazine (www.francemag.com). He recalls rummaging through his dad's colognes, and finding (and subsequently adopting) the prettiest bottle - an old-fashioned one with a silver cap and the word "Creed", which had been a gift to his father from the director of a French company, sometime before that.

    Like I say, one man's trash is another man's treasure, and at some point, I'm sure a Creed bottle will turn up in somebody's museum somewhere.
    * * * *

  41. #41

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Michelle Obama...

    Who's Michelle Obama?

    spotted buying LiW

    What is LiW?

  42. #42

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Addict View Post
    Michelle Obama...

    Who's Michelle Obama?

    spotted buying LiW

    What is LiW?
    Love in White. My goodness, I always forget the two "Loves".

    Perhaps creed should create "Love in White House" for the new uncrowned royal family of our day ... (-:

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    I agree. Penhaligons has British warrants stuck up their a** and in their shops but their stuff is some of the most mediocre in the industry and they now have a tiny fanbase (90% of which is on Badger&Blade).
    Interesting, I was just reading the history of Houbigant.
    They went from top notch, cream of the crop to drug store shelving then bankruptcy

  44. #44

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    ... Creeds original warrants were granted to them as tailors ... and as stated by creedboutique, they offered a wide variety of services alongside their primary tailoring line of business. ...

    For me, Creed showing these warrants clears up the biggest controversy and claims by the naysayers...that the company is fake and didn't exist until the 1980s!...

    For sure there have been many high profile fans in the past...
    1) As far as I know the Creed-debate nobody suspected that Creed has not having existed that long. People argued wether the company started as a "top notch" perfumery. It didn't as you yourself stated. First sights of fragrance offerings date of 1970 or later.

    2 a) A long list of todays vips buying Creeds doesn't grant that earlier customers - if any, see (1) - would have had the same rank in public awareness.

    2 b) If by some peculiar ways the Creed concoctions make vips to spray that stuff around that doesn't grant the quality of it. Or, at last that doesn't make me liking it more or even less.

    7) If - again: If that story of royal warrants is not true (if!), this marketing ploy would (if!) be on the spot to what? It would address people of a certain state of mind. A certain attitude regarding social life etc.

    10) If the story about royal warrants is valid regarding perfumery, and Creed insists on that as granting their contemporary superiority that would prevent me from buying their stuff. The attitude speaking through their advertising is far off my personal life style.

  45. #45

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    The explanation is quite simple - Creeds original warrants were granted to them as tailors because they were habit makers/tailors...that was their primary business. It would be absurd for a European King or Queen to grant them an "official perfumers" warrant because their primary business was not perfumery...it was an ancillary line, and as stated by creedboutique, they offered a wide variety of services alongside their primary tailoring line of business.
    I agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    For me, Creed showing these warrants clears up the biggest controversy and claims by the naysayers...that the company is fake and didn't exist until the 1980s!
    I don't see it that way at all.

    The biggest controversies are:

    (a) Whether certain fragrances originated at their claimed date (e.g., was REL an 18th century creation?)

    (b) Whether claims that earlier creations were worn by certain celebrities is accurate.

  46. #46

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by scentsitivity View Post
    I agree with this.




    (a) Whether certain fragrances originated at their claimed date (e.g., was REL an 18th century creation?)
    .
    Just one example: The most famous of these is the fragrance Jasmin Impeatrice Eugenie created in 1854 for Empress Eugenie. This fragrance is cited in her official and unofficial biographies - for example the book The Palace of Tears. I dont have it bookmarked but do a Google Book search and you will come up with many samples.

    As to whether its the exact same formula in its current incarnation, thats nearly impossible for Creed or any other perfume house (for reasons well elaborated by Redneck Perfumisto).
    -

  47. #47
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    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    Just one example: The most famous of these is the fragrance Jasmin Impeatrice Eugenie created in 1854 for Empress Eugenie. This fragrance is cited in her official and unofficial biographies - for example the book The Palace of Tears. I dont have it bookmarked but do a Google Book search and you will come up with many samples.

    As to whether its the exact same formula in its current incarnation, thats nearly impossible for Creed or any other perfume house (for reasons well elaborated by Redneck Perfumisto).
    Here you go:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=N1-...page&q&f=false

    Now as nearly as I can tell, The Palace of Tears is well-researched historical fiction (to the point of one person complaining about the historical insertions), so the actual proof is presumably somewhere else - some dry and dusty biography, probably not in English. Although to be completely honest, the Creed reference here (2002) could have even descended from unsubstantiated Creed marketing. I'm still a scientist, so I won't throw away ALL of my skepticism until I feel like I'm wasting my time with it. Nevertheless, I suspect that this is the way to settle things and be done with it - find a reference in an obscure biography. This was just my first Google books hit. It will be interesting to dig deeper.

    As far as I'm concerned, proof of a fragrance for Eugenie would settle it. That is early enough for me. And, BTW, it's an awesome fragrance!

    PS - Here is a link from a napoleonophile site regarding Eugenie's relationship with Worth and her fling with fashion - there is a nice biography at the end, which is probably useful in this quest.

    http://www.napoleon.org/en/reading_r...les/471885.asp

    I also found another old book about Eugenie on Google. No explicit mention of Creed, but an interesting statement that all the perfumers in Paris were competing to make fragrances for her. I'll try to find that link... Here it is - a more recent history of perfumes...

    http://books.google.com/books?id=BiQ...ed=0CFgQ6AEwBw

    Also, very interesting. Looking at Google copies of "The Lancet" from that time - the advertising is extremely instructive. It seems common for advertisers to claim royal patronage, usage, etc. There were examples of extinct perfume companies, apparently not as fancy as Creed, making claims of sales to royalty, although often lacking in detail. The whole thing smacks of celebrity endorsements today, although in the fragrance world, unsolicited USAGE by the famous seems to be better than a paid endorsement. There were also products NAMED after royalty. There was a soap named after Eugenie - and I was not necessarily believing it had been with permission (no royal warrant cited).

    Finally, here is a link to an out-of-print book about Creed's competitor, Worth, who basically invented modern haute couture along with the Empress. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that this is the background book used by the author of "Palace of Tears". I found several, but this is the best.

    The age of Worth, couturier to the Empress Eugénie
    Edith Saunders
    Longmans, Green, 1954 - Art - 218 pages

    http://books.google.com/books?ei=DyN...#search_anchor

    I'm too cheap to buy this book (given that it's not 100% about perfume), but the little blurb that you can see on Google clearly shows that Creed had an intimate business relationship with the Empress, just as Creed claims. Given that fact, and assuming that everybody was making perfumes for her attention as stated elsewhere, I think I'm satisfied that Creed made a fragrance, probably not unlike the one you can buy today, at that time, for her. And if I were a company like Creed which had made a fragrance that long ago for a person that famous, I would certainly trot it out today and market it exactly as they're doing.

    I'm satisfied!
    Last edited by Redneck Perfumisto; 14th August 2010 at 11:34 PM. Reason: Added links
    * * * *

  48. #48

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Well, how could I have missed this thread?
    I still can't figure out why Creed just doesn't produce at least one shred of documentation of its historical perfume services to royalty, if it is so important to their image? As genuinely old perfume houses have all done (Farina, Guerlain etc.) forever and a day as a means of marketing. The logical assumption to me is there isn't any. That Creed presented George III with Royal English Leather is unlikely enough, but that he ordered it is out of the question. Even in the 1830s Creed is not yet mentioned as a tailor for nobility or the smart set, access to the House of Hanover 50 years prior does not compute. The real breakthrough came with d'Orsay and his coterie and the subsequent take-off of the Paris branch, climaxing in Eugenie's warrant for riding gear etc. The scant evidence I have found in newspapers suggests that Creed was particularly renowned as a maker of "sporting outfits," e.g riding habits and the like. It remains that what we know for certain is that Creed tailored for nobility and royalty since about the 1850s. Beyond that, all is PR, speculation, or gossip. That Creed's faux claims have inserted themselves into hack journalism and popular (historical) novels so as to confirm themselves is a splendid example of the success of the luxury guerilla marketing the house excels at.
    What do I personally surmise? It's not unlikely Creed offered perfumes in their store. Farina was shipping Cologne to Juan Floris before he ever made any of his own (I saw the order book in Cologne). So they may have been acquired elsewhere or mixed on Creed's order by a druggist. More likely than a professional tailor mixing juice in a back room. If, by any chance, he did make it himself, it would have most likely been according to standard formulas provided by the literature for that purpose. But you really have to consider that people like Farina and Guerlain who revolutionzed perfumery studied their art profusely, travelling abroad to learn the trade, using networks of relatives and correspondents to purchase the finest materials, researching destilling processes and aging techniques etc. pp. and didn't have time for much else. A prospering tailor swamped by increasing orders from the better sort just doesn't fit the bill of perfumer extraordinaire to royalty.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  49. #49

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Well, how could I have missed this thread?
    I still can't figure out why Creed just doesn't produce at least one shred of documentation of its historical perfume services to royalty, if it is so important to their image? As genuinely old perfume houses have all done (Farina, Guerlain etc.) forever and a day as a means of marketing. The logical assumption to me is there isn't any. That Creed presented George III with Royal English Leather is unlikely enough, but that he ordered it is out of the question. Even in the 1830s Creed is not yet mentioned as a tailor for nobility or the smart set, access to the House of Hanover 50 years prior does not compute. The real breakthrough came with d'Orsay and his coterie and the subsequent take-off of the Paris branch, climaxing in Eugenie's warrant for riding gear etc. The scant evidence I have found in newspapers suggests that Creed was particularly renowned as a maker of "sporting outfits," e.g riding habits and the like. It remains that what we know for certain is that Creed tailored for nobility and royalty since about the 1850s. Beyond that, all is PR, speculation, or gossip. That Creed's faux claims have inserted themselves into hack journalism and popular (historical) novels so as to confirm themselves is a splendid example of the success of the luxury guerilla marketing the house excels at.
    What do I personally surmise? It's not unlikely Creed offered perfumes in their store. Farina was shipping Cologne to Juan Floris before he ever made any of his own (I saw the order book in Cologne). So they may have been acquired elsewhere or mixed on Creed's order by a druggist. More likely than a professional tailor mixing juice in a back room. If, by any chance, he did make it himself, it would have most likely been according to standard formulas provided by the literature for that purpose. But you really have to consider that people like Farina and Guerlain who revolutionzed perfumery studied their art profusely, travelling abroad to learn the trade, using networks of relatives and correspondents to purchase the finest materials, researching destilling processes and aging techniques etc. pp. and didn't have time for much else. A prospering tailor swamped by increasing orders from the better sort just doesn't fit the bill of perfumer extraordinaire to royalty.
    Thank you, the_good_life, for posting here! Creed is not a new company, this is true. But the entry into the fragrance trade is much later. The real-life Comte d'Orsay was a patron of Henry Creed's tailoring business, who made his famed well-fitted suits. The Comte was a fashion trend-setter in his prime then, and his patronage of various tradesmen was just as good as a Royal Warrant for drawing business, as the_good_life notes.

    On the other hand, the Parfums D'Orsay company is indeed a new fragrance company, founded only in 1908. The marketing "legend" that the Comte made "Etiquette Bleue" for his "English" mistress was created to give the impression of a much older company. (The debate of Lady Blessington being his mistress is still up for debate--and she was Irish, as well.) The company start-up is well-documented. Check Ken Leach's book "Perfume Presentations," and Nigel Groom's "The Perfume Handbook," second edition, for more information on the creative marketing.

    The House of Worth did get its start as a couturier. The Englishman Worth made his fortune in Paris with the upper-crust of the Second Empire, which started with Empress Eugenie and included many courtesans, some of whom were mistresses to the emperor, ironically. The notorious demimondaine Cora Pearl was a frequent customer of Maison Worth.
    Last edited by Primrose; 17th August 2010 at 01:42 PM.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  50. #50
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    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Glad that our local historians got here, and none too soon! Yes, I think that the devil is in the details. Even if Creed did offer a fragrance to this person or that, was it truly theirs? And if they did offer fragrances to - or simply in honor of - famous persons, did they outsource in the beginning (whenever that actually was)?

    All of these questions could be resolved in a variety of ways, if Creed desired. But I believe that even if the facts backed up their marketing completely, they would be hesitant to say too much. The "Creed controversy" has to be an important component of the guerrilla marketing, and ending it with a bunch of borderline admissions showing (most likely) their very slight interest in perfumery during their heyday is not bound to happen.

    The simplest resolution would be what some "resurrected" companies have done - show off the old formula books.

    (*foot tapping...* )
    * * * *

  51. #51

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Glad that our local historians got here, and none too soon! ...
    Do You really care about "pomp and circumstances"? I wouldn't care about royalties or celebreties of today even if the drank that infamous brews. My attempt is perfumery as fun, not to show off - btw: what about winking with a bunch of $100$ notes? Perfumeries functional part is to connect to my body odor transforming it occasionally to a more pleasent - attractive/interesting - over-all-impression.

    As far as I read about this case of kings and queens and Santa Claus and all Creed wouldn't do anything for me in any case. Neither the fun nor the b.o transforming (that is not masking, guys!). I have to admit, I really never ever sniffed into a Creed". That's a mission still to be accomplished. I just can't stand that retarded royal stuff ... true or not.

  52. #52

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Well, how could I have missed this thread?
    I still can't figure out why Creed just doesn't produce at least one shred of documentation of its historical perfume services to royalty, if it is so important to their image? As genuinely old perfume houses have all done (Farina, Guerlain etc.) forever and a day as a means of marketing. The logical assumption to me is there isn't any. That Creed presented George III with Royal English Leather is unlikely enough, but that he ordered it is out of the question. Even in the 1830s Creed is not yet mentioned as a tailor for nobility or the smart set, access to the House of Hanover 50 years prior does not compute. The real breakthrough came with d'Orsay and his coterie and the subsequent take-off of the Paris branch, climaxing in Eugenie's warrant for riding gear etc. The scant evidence I have found in newspapers suggests that Creed was particularly renowned as a maker of "sporting outfits," e.g riding habits and the like. It remains that what we know for certain is that Creed tailored for nobility and royalty since about the 1850s. Beyond that, all is PR, speculation, or gossip. That Creed's faux claims have inserted themselves into hack journalism and popular (historical) novels so as to confirm themselves is a splendid example of the success of the luxury guerilla marketing the house excels at.
    What do I personally surmise? It's not unlikely Creed offered perfumes in their store. Farina was shipping Cologne to Juan Floris before he ever made any of his own (I saw the order book in Cologne). So they may have been acquired elsewhere or mixed on Creed's order by a druggist. More likely than a professional tailor mixing juice in a back room. If, by any chance, he did make it himself, it would have most likely been according to standard formulas provided by the literature for that purpose. But you really have to consider that people like Farina and Guerlain who revolutionzed perfumery studied their art profusely, travelling abroad to learn the trade, using networks of relatives and correspondents to purchase the finest materials, researching destilling processes and aging techniques etc. pp. and didn't have time for much else. A prospering tailor swamped by increasing orders from the better sort just doesn't fit the bill of perfumer extraordinaire to royalty.
    Great read and informative, TGL. Great to see you on this thread.
    That girl, that bottle, that mattress and me.

  53. #53

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    But you really have to consider that people like Farina and Guerlain who revolutionzed perfumery studied their art profusely, travelling abroad to learn the trade, using networks of relatives and correspondents to purchase the finest materials, researching destilling processes and aging techniques etc. pp. and didn't have time for much else. A prospering tailor swamped by increasing orders from the better sort just doesn't fit the bill of perfumer extraordinaire to royalty.
    Or they had one of the lesser known Creed family member/relative (not really cut out to be a tailor) doing the perfume mixing in the background ..

    BTW, while going through Google Books, I came upon an article from an issue of Esquire from the early 70s where Olivier Creed was measuring a client for a suit...which leads to the question, does he still sew ?
    -

  54. #54
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    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by WildThingy View Post
    Do You really care about "pomp and circumstances"?
    Not insofar as enjoying the fragrance - no, not at all. I will buy the Creeds I like regardless of their [purported or real] lineage. For me, enjoying and purchasing fragrances is completely separated from what is used to market them. For instance, I won't boycott Bond no.9 for it's marketplace behavior, no matter how badly they behave. I suppose if they behaved in a truly despicable fashion, trying to ruin small perfumers, I would probably boycott. But simply playing the heavy in the industry isn't a factor for me.

    No - I would never refrain from purchasing a Creed if the entire history was a bald-faced lie, nor would I buy one because I believed in its age.

    HOWEVER, I do find the whole history thing terribly fascinating - NO MATTER WHAT. History is interesting, and the history of perfumery is even more so. Thus, if the story which Creed promotes is true, then I think it's just inherently interesting that these things happened. If, on the other hand, Creed's marketing is all scandalous lies, then it's a train wreck of an entirely different nature, but equally fascinating.

    I suppose I'm just a tabloid mentality. I don't really care for Fleurs de Bulgarie based on the idea that it was made for Queen Victoria, but for some weird reason, the truth or falsehood of the question is just terribly interesting to me. I am a Creedophile based on the scents themselves, but I'm also interested in Creed's history (or lack thereof) for its own sake.

    Although I think my wife cares about the Creed legends, and does tend to show her bottle off, I'm rarely asked about my frags or what they cost - I think only my closest friends who don't give a shit about such things even know anything about Creed.

    The bottom line for me is that Creed takes extra pain to create scents that appeal to connoisseurs. They reliably make scents that I enjoy. They are, like the man said, the Apple of fragrance. That's what I'm paying for, and what I ultimately care about.
    * * * *

  55. #55

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Wow, this thread has really taken off! Thanks everyone for making it an interesting read.

    Unfortunately, the burden of proof is on Creed and they just can't seem to substantiate anything. Obviously we can't prove a negative, that they didn't make perfume since 1760, but nothing points in that direction.

    Interesting tidbits: Old Creed Advertisements
    http://books.google.com/books?id=Bc8...uit%22&f=false
    http://books.google.com/books?id=Bc8...uit%22&f=false
    http://books.google.com/books?id=CSk...uit%22&f=false

    http://books.google.com/books?id=NG8...uit%22&f=false

    The dissolution of the (original?) Creed company "Creed and Cumberland": http://books.google.com/books?id=hCE...onduit&f=false
    -this might disqualify them from being one of the oldest family owned businesses

    I wonder what other historical perfume houses we could debunk. Any suggestions?

  56. #56

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Thanks for the links. Interesting to learn that the C&C partnership was dissolved in 1860. Therafter references seem to be to Henry Creed & Cie. As the net grows, more historical Creed items are popping up, except those related to perfume . Here is some newsreel of Charles Creed, even in color:
    http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=47379
    http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=1358
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  57. #57

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    CSI: Basenotes
    Cologne Sales Investigation
    Spray it, don’t say it…
    WARDROBE

  58. #58

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    For me, enjoying and purchasing fragrances is completely separated from what is used to market them.
    ...
    HOWEVER, I do find the whole history thing terribly fascinating - NO MATTER WHAT. History is interesting, and the history of perfumery is even more so.
    ...
    The bottom line for me is that Creed takes extra pain to create scents that appeal to connoisseurs.
    ...
    Thank You for Your claryfication. Then, what shalls? The Creed history is not much of history as history should be. Their connection to royalties is in doubt. The history is called a legend, as You do too. I would go a step further and call it a fairy tale sort of. In Europe we have a strong tradition ragarding fairy tales, top famous collections are those from the Gebruder Grimm or Hans Christian Andersen, example given Cinderella, Little Red Riding Hood, Fallada, Sleeping Beauty etc. Some of which are quite alarming unter the cute dreamy surface, if not nighmarish: Hansel und Gretel for instance. Most of these stories play in royal houses or at least in their neighborhood.

    As a European I'm in a way used to royal fiction as to say, including the notoriously airheaded yellow press, that the Creed marketing ploy couldn't get my special regards. If it get's Your's I'm curious what for. Alas, the fragrances as such aren't that stunning too. Besides the sole GIT nothing made it over 3 stars in "The Guide" - el cheapo Cool Water seems to deserve it's rating of 5. Your take on Creed as the Apple of fragrance isn't that of Luca Turin. But, so far it is a taste case but nothing for the CSI squad.

    Enjoy Your Day!
    Last edited by WildThingy; 17th August 2010 at 09:43 AM.

  59. #59

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Thanks for the links. Interesting to learn that the C&C partnership was dissolved in 1860. Therafter references seem to be to Henry Creed & Cie. As the net grows, more historical Creed items are popping up, except those related to perfume . Here is some newsreel of Charles Creed, even in color:
    http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=47379
    http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=1358
    Ha Ha Ha. Not advertising back then either I see!!......Adver-mation film has a longer history than I thought.
    Military models huh? Not much time for collecting rare essences with all that painting going on...

    I think case is closed.
    Creed was a tayloring business who may well have offered perfume as many taylors did. It certainly was not what the firm was known for or promoted in their advertising and there is no actual evidence of it having done it at all (as there surely would be if it was an important part of their trade). As t_g_l pointed out, taylors didn't make perfume, that was in the hands of chemists and prior to that alchemists so it is highly likely that if Creed the taylors (or Creed and Cumberland of conduit St, Bond St and "Paris") did offer perfume they didn't make it themselves.
    As other well informed perfume historians have poited out the formualry of the 18th century was in the public domain - the perfume recipes were standard mixtures tweeked a little by the individual. The original recipe for REL (if it existed in 17~~) would likely have been taken from an established text and entitled "for making leather gloves fragrant" or "fore covering up the smelle of pisse from thee tanning process" or something...

    At some point in the 20th century, probably as late as the 60s or 70s the fortunes of the tayloring business dwindled to the extent that they decided to refocus on perfume...

    Now if they told us that straight and then went on to add that they use a high proprtion of high quality naturals and employ the best perfumers in the world to help compose aspects of their scents and pride themselves on INTEGRITY and producing quality would we like/buy them less???
    Last edited by hirch_duckfinder; 17th August 2010 at 10:17 AM.
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

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  60. #60

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    HOWEVER, what occurs to me as being VERY interesting is the huge emphasis on mens fragrance particularly in the "older" line from Creed.
    To me this is the best evidence of all that they were a taylor not a perfumer, and maybe it also suggests also that some of the formulae (or at least ideas) are quite old. No perfume house in the world would market itself at 5% of the buyers in the market.

    If the whole perfume business was a construction, why would they not do what everyone does and bias the business 90% aimed at women and 10% at men??????
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

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