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  1. #61

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Interesting point... also the male fragrances are a lot more successful, everything considered.

    I think FdTRB and Spring Flowers are OK or better than OK, but not as great as the male stars.

    When I have to gift female fragrances, I prefer to go with houses such as L'Artisan.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    http://www.piver.com/en/our-history

    Our story begins in 1774 in Paris at a perfume store called "A la Reine des Fleurs".

    History so far. The fragrances cited:

    From "Trèfle Incarnat", the first perfume to contain artificial essential oils to the illustrious "Cuir de Russie", not forgetting such mythical concoctions as "L’Eau de Cologne des Princes", "A la Reine des Fleurs", "Pompeia", "Floramye", "Héliotrope Blanc" or "Rêve d’Or" – all of which proved remarkable in their own right and occupy their rightful places in the history of French perfumes.

    are all true to their time. They really existed in the late 1800 and early 1900 parallel to the Guerlain offerings. Many of them very innovative, captive molecules and such. Floramye was the first ever to use aldehydes (well known by the later Chanel #5) as far as I know with the inventer of that molecule - Darzens - as a co-perfumer.

    Regarding an interest in history of perfumery I hope the link given above could be more satisfactory than the doubtable Creed page, at least as a starting point.

    As an example for further reading regarding The History Of Perfume:

    "The Popularity of Clover Aroma and L.T. Piver Trèfle Incarnat in Literature and Perfume since the 19th Century"
    http://www.mimifroufrou.com/scenteds...ver_aroma.html

    You see, I become a really wild thingy when betrayed. Get the honest stuff, juice included ;-)
    Last edited by WildThingy; 17th August 2010 at 12:40 PM.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder View Post
    HOWEVER, what occurs to me as being VERY interesting is the huge emphasis on mens fragrance particularly in the "older" line from Creed.
    To me this is the best evidence of all that they were a taylor not a perfumer, and maybe it also suggests also that some of the formulae (or at least ideas) are quite old. No perfume house in the world would market itself at 5% of the buyers in the market.

    If the whole perfume business was a construction, why would they not do what everyone does and bias the business 90% aimed at women and 10% at men??????
    That is a key point - it would only make sense if perfumes was their complementary business at the time, which I believe it was, and which even the official Creed response indicates (upto a dozen suits and upto two fragrances).

    As for the "advertising", every Creed owner may have had a different policy when he became head of the house. Nothing unusual about it.
    -

  4. #64

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    That is a key point - it would only make sense if perfumes was their complementary business at the time, which I believe it was, and which even the official Creed response indicates (upto a dozen suits and upto two fragrances).

    As for the "advertising", every Creed owner may have had a different policy when he became head of the house. Nothing unusual about it.
    One wonders how many fragrances Creed has created which are unknown to the world as a whole. Probably scores or hundreds.

    An example comes to mind from Floris: Special No. 127, was created for a customer and currently on the market. What about Specials no 1 through no. 126? And no. 128 and beyond?

    My point is, we see a small percentage of the output.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulSC View Post
    CSI: Basenotes
    Cologne Sales Investigation
    Haha.
    "Helional, Hedione but only trace amounts of eugenol! The killer wore an IFRA reformulated "Eau Sauvage!"

    Thanks for the clips, the_good_life, I always enjoy these little glimpses of the past.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    If the whole perfume business was a construction, why would they not do what everyone does and bias the business 90% aimed at women and 10% at men??????.
    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    That is a key point - it would only make sense if perfumes was their complementary business at the time, which I believe it was, and which even the official Creed response indicates (upto a dozen suits and upto two fragrances).
    As the devils advocate one would consider that perfume in it's really early days was - modern wording - unisex. May I link again:

    "The Popularity of Clover Aroma and L.T. Piver Trèfle Incarnat in Literature and Perfume since the 19th Century"
    http://www.mimifroufrou.com/scenteds...ver_aroma.html

    Piver is a house that really exists since 1774 as a perfumery. And they have been as innovative as Guerlain for the least. Their groundbreaking (literally) Trèfle Incarnat was addressed to both sexes around 1900. Given the style of Pivers 1905 Floramye, still available today nobody would suspect that any Creed is that old. Same with Pivers Reve D'Or. Compare Guerlains Shalimar or Jicky to any Creed. Or just take the names: "Royal English Leather" and "Cuir de Russie". Isn't the "royal" completely off tracks? It lacks that special romanticism, the dreamy undertone of youth style. Even the royal Pivers are named "prince" as to emphasize the aspect of youth. The name of REL is obviously addressed to the male contemporary man with disposable income. Here You are with the 90% male customers. It is a very special attitude that Creeds advertising speaks to.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by WildThingy View Post
    Isn't the "royal" completely off tracks? It lacks that special romanticism, the dreamy undertone of youth style. Even the royal Pivers are named "prince" as to emphasize the aspect of youth. The name of REL is obviously addressed to the male contemporary man with disposable income. Here You are with the 90% male customers. It is a very special attitude that Creeds advertising speaks to.
    "Royal" is just like the "Imperial" prefix/suffix attached to many fragrances since the 1800s. Quite a few UK/English houses used to use the "Royal" designation, while many French ones preferred "Imperial". The designations imply made for/worn by royalty.
    -

  8. #68

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Zizanioides View Post
    "Helional, Hedione but only trace amounts of eugenol! The killer wore an IFRA reformulated "Eau Sauvage!"
    LOL!

    In the lab...
    "Get me a close-up of that second Henry Creed video. Yes ... zoom in on the left coat pocket. More. There's an object in there, can we ID it based on the outline? Now subtract the herringbone weave of the jacket and interpolate for greater detail. Invert the image. Flatten it. Zoom in more. There! I think we know who our perfumer is!"

    In the interrogation room...
    -- "I've told you all I know. Now if you'll excuse me, I have an appointment for the ski slopes."

    -- "We're not finished here."

    -- "You can't detain me without a warrant!"

    -- "Speaking of warrants..."
    Spray it, don’t say it…
    WARDROBE

  9. #69

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    "Royal" is just like the "Imperial" prefix/suffix attached to many fragrances since the 1800s. Quite a few UK/English houses used to use the "Royal" designation, while many French ones preferred "Imperial". The designations imply made for/worn by royalty.
    Which and when? Neither Guerlian nor Piver (really that long in business, go figure) did so. Has there been any perfume that early with distinctive names towards royality? I mean, if the juice was designated to royals, would that have been available in public? So, why then call it "royal" at all? To remind the king of his profession?

  10. #70

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by WildThingy View Post
    Which and when? Neither Guerlian nor Piver (really that long in business, go figure) did so. Has there been any perfume that early with distinctive names towards royality? I mean, if the juice was designated to royals, would that have been available in public? So, why then call it "royal" at all? To remind the king of his profession?
    The obvious one that comes to mind is Guerlain's Eau de Cologne Impériale (1853)
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by WildThingy View Post
    Which and when? Neither Guerlian nor Piver (really that long in business, go figure) did so. Has there been any perfume that early with distinctive names towards royality? I mean, if the juice was designated to royals, would that have been available in public? So, why then call it "royal" at all? To remind the king of his profession?
    too many to list. Just do a google search for "imperial perfume" and "royal perfume".

    Guerlain has Eau de Cologne Imperiale.
    -

  12. #72

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    The obvious one that comes to mind is Guerlain's Eau de Cologne Impériale (1853)
    According to this:

    http://www.nstperfume.com/2010/05/26...grance-review/

    the "imperiale" issue was a one hit wonder - ehm, catastrophy. Alas, Guerlain is demystified in the end.

    From Creed we enjoy:
    * Imperial Millesime
    * Jasmin Imperatrice Eugenie
    * Royal Delight
    * Royal English Leather
    * Royal Scottish Lavender
    * Royal Water
    * Windsor ( the last name of prince something of Great Britain, a democracy since recently ...)
    and
    - royal cylan (reissued 2006, original version unknown but once donated to Mom Cleopatra - maybe, who knows)

    What was that "Eau de Cologne Impériale"? A cologne in the style of Farina Gegenuber. Is that a someting that any Creed would smell alike?

    But I see Your point. My argument that never ever a royal would have lend its name for an advertising campaign was wrong. Missi Napoleon did, that vile she was.

    As to accuse my fault, sorry:

    THE REAL REASON WHY DINOSAURS BECAME EXTINCT



    http://www.kidsgrowth.com/images/dinosaur.jpg - it made me stop smoking laughing
    Last edited by WildThingy; 17th August 2010 at 10:22 PM.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    too many to list. Just do a google search for "imperial perfume" and "royal perfume".

    Guerlain has Eau de Cologne Imperiale.
    O/k, I did. The most is that Creed ... and some retarded contemporary mediocre ... and Palais Royal. So, I count two, one having been granted by her impress Missi Napoleon, the other of no further interest. But Creed: four "Royal" from "Delight" to "Water" - I'm not that good on poetics, but it sounds very odd: "Royal Water". Water is a generic substance (in Europe) and royality extraordinary, an oxymoron? A bit funny take on royality, isn't it my dear? "Royal Delight" - christian humility or oriental *biep*?

    BUT besides the naming game. Did YOU ever smell a fragrance from that time around and before 1900? Could anybody misstake a Creed that old? Composition wise.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    . . .The designations imply made for/worn by royalty.
    I'm not sure how many Guerlains fit that naming convention but they did used to employ the same client pedigree tactic as Creed.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=TGM...erfume&f=false

    Digging through old documents turns up interesting stuff on J. Guerlain who turns out to have collaborated with some DuPont (not sure if it's that DuPont family) in essential oil extraction techniques. Journals reporting their work:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=vPU...dupont&f=false

    http://books.google.com/books?id=FWo...d=0CKsBEOgBMBQ
    Last edited by Zizanioides; 17th August 2010 at 10:58 PM.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    ^^ The Piver house stuff is quite fascinating - particularly the Darzens connections. Definitely some real, and really interesting history there. I will end up sampling these at some point, without a doubt. Sad that this house isn't as prominent as it once was. Clearly Creed's modern marketing is the difference here.

    However, I have to be honest - Piver does the same thing as Creed in trying to push back its history as far as possible, and then skip over the banality of the alleged early years to get to the good stuff. Simply observe the highly nuanced wording on its history page. The early history of the house is quite different from the state around 1900, when the connection to Darzens and cutting-edge science made them competitive with the front lines of perfumery. It seems they basically started out as a perfume shop (under a different name, too), and two generations are conveniently segued to get to the point where things get interesting, just as Creed does a bit of storytelling magic to get from REL-scented gloves to Eugenie. That much said, Piver is an honest-to-God perfume company, and was clearly a first-rate competitor with Guerlain at a time when Creed wasn't even on the map (kind of like those early mammals, but I digress...)

    Anyway, thanks for pointing me to this fascinating house, which definitely deserves more attention!
    * * * *

  16. #76

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    ^^ The Piver house stuff is quite fascinating - particularly the Darzens connections. Definitely some real, and really interesting history there. I will end up sampling these at some point, without a doubt. Sad that this house isn't as prominent as it once was. Clearly Creed's modern marketing is the difference here.

    However, I have to be honest - Piver does the same thing as Creed in trying to push back its history as far as possible, and then skip over the banality of the alleged early years to get to the good stuff. Simply observe the highly nuanced wording on its history page. The early history of the house is quite different from the state around 1900, when the connection to Darzens and cutting-edge science made them competitive with the front lines of perfumery. It seems they basically started out as a perfume shop (under a different name, too), and two generations are conveniently segued to get to the point where things get interesting, just as Creed does a bit of storytelling magic to get from REL-scented gloves to Eugenie. That much said, Piver is an honest-to-God perfume company, and was clearly a first-rate competitor with Guerlain at a time when Creed wasn't even on the map (kind of like those early mammals, but I digress...)

    Anyway, thanks for pointing me to this fascinating house, which definitely deserves more attention!
    You know what Red, since Piver aren't doing so well, I am sure theres a family member or an employee or two doing some costume stitching in the background.....here's an idea, perhaps they should become tailors ?
    -

  17. #77

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    The trouble with Piver now is not their marketing but their fragrances. Have you smelled cuir de russie?
    "Don’t try to be original. Be simple. Be good technically, and if there is something in you, it will come out. ” - Henri Matisse.

    "Wear R de Capucci" - Hirch Duckfinder

    reviews

  18. #78

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder View Post
    The trouble with Piver now is not their marketing but their fragrances. Have you smelled cuir de russie?
    Indeed. so many great, genuinely old names in perfumery have sunken low. What good is an authentic history, if the current product is no good? Farina Gegenüber was controlled for a while by a Swiss mass-market cosmetics/bath suds producer. Even now that they are fully family-owned again, I cling desperately to my vintage bottles. I'll choose Creed's Bois de Cedrat or Bigarade any day over the current incarnation of Farina. Not to speak of virtually forgotten names like Rimmel, that rot away in low-end drugstore bargain bins. What has become of Coty? Even Guerlain's history and stature did not protect them from the LVMH monsta and the result of that takeover has been, shall we say, mixed. Floris is a shadow of of its former self, Penhaligon's could make great perfumes, if only they spent a little more on good ingredients, Crown is gone, leaving only Trumper holding up the tattered Jermyn Street flag (and Harris, occasionally). Certainly, history must not be confused with quality. And the Creeds that I do like, I like, indeed love, far too much to discard them merely for being offended by their disrespectful marketing (lying to your customers is alway so, IMO, because you are assuming they simply can't handle the truth, enjoy being duped etc. pp.)
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by WildThingy View Post
    O/k, I did. The most is that Creed ... and some retarded contemporary mediocre ... and Palais Royal. So, I count two, one having been granted by her impress Missi Napoleon, the other of no further interest. But Creed: four "Royal" from "Delight" to "Water" - I'm not that good on poetics, but it sounds very odd: "Royal Water". Water is a generic substance (in Europe) and royality extraordinary, an oxymoron? A bit funny take on royality, isn't it my dear? "Royal Delight" - christian humility or oriental *biep*?

    BUT besides the naming game. Did YOU ever smell a fragrance from that time around and before 1900? Could anybody misstake a Creed that old? Composition wise.
    Well, the link to NST you provided lists a half dozen "noble" Guerlains. You have to keep in mind, that the royals themselves had nothing to do with granting royal warrants. This was and is done, in their name, by the responsible chamberlain and no king would have stooped to ever corresponding, much less conversing with a perfumer (except folksy Edward VII, if he saw an opportunity to lay the perfumer's daughter). Henry Creed, as tailor, got much closer, and was showered with luxury cigars (typical employee gift of the time) by his clients, but he knew well enough to enter and exit, with his crew, through the servants' doors, too,as his grandson Charles writes. In Savile Row, noble clientele meant prestige meant big business and the nobles knew this and usually refused, in turn, to pay their bills - Henry Poole nearly went bankrupt for this reason and when his heirs asked for payment to save the house, the royal patronage was angrily withdrawn.

    As to Creed style: no doubt, the PR legends and dates abounding about many Creeds are fake. No way was a modern aquatic such as Erolfa on the Titanic, nor did Eddie Windsor ever wear Windsor - certainly not in its current formulation stuffed with modern synths. Vintage Tabarome could not have been invented prior to the 1920s in terms of its style. However, simple scents such as Bois de Cedrat, Bigarade, Santal Impérial are typical 19th century fragrances, whether or not actually first made then or not.
    About Creed's focus or strength in masculines I can only speculate. Perhaps that was a niche Olivier was banking on, as male fragrance took off big time precisely in the 1960s, when he apparently started building a perfume house. Since Creed tailored for women and men equally, the sartorial background does not explain the male bias in perfume. That is more typical of English houses built on shaving and grooming establishments, such as Trumper, Harris, Taylor.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Indeed. so many great, genuinely old names in perfumery have sunken low.
    Perhaps they started smoking - what happend to the Dinosaurs? I never smelled Cuir De Russie. But I have still a bottle of Floramye and a huge decant of Vetiver. Both do well regarding their age. When I smell for example old Jicky there is too a feeling of a not so seemless composition, hence the components stand out, giving room to suspiciously reminding quality issues. I've got some elder Mitsouko. That is less elegant, tends to rough compared to the new formulation.

    The younger Vetiver is the completest take on vetiveral aspects I've ever encountered. Nearly undetectable but still dirty clean aromatic. It is at least as true to the nutty root as Givenchys while as grassy as Guerlains.

    One has to consider that once contemporary perfumery had to deal with very few synthetics and a lot of naturals. All naturals or near all naturals today show similar drawbacks. To prevent from mishmash the compositions have to emphasize at most 2 or 3 components, they hardly shine, the drydown is can be cumbersome (LeZNeZ Antimaterie etc). On the other hand the few synthetics used back then where really hot. So overapplied sometimes. And not at last, the modern instances of former top sellers (which they righteously were) have of course replaced the ancient naturals by more reliable but less satisfying sinthetics of recent availablility.

    When I compare Floramye to e/g Lauder Beyond Paradise I do not feel a great difference in message. The BP is more complex, but the dew virgin morning light is presented by both in same brightness. It is nearly impossible to overapply F while it is still remarkably potent in light usage. Having both around at the same time together is astounding.

    edit: "Well, the link to NST you provided lists a half dozen "noble" Guerlains." TGL, please could You show me how to find them, me dumpy ddodle can't. Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by WildThingy; 18th August 2010 at 10:33 AM.

  21. #81

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by WildThingy View Post
    Perhaps they started smoking - what happend to the Dinosaurs? I never smelled Cuir De Russie. But I have still a bottle of Floramye and a huge decant of Vetiver. Both do well regarding their age. When I smell for example old Jicky there is too a feeling of a not so seemless composition, hence the components stand out, giving room to suspiciously reminding quality issues. I've got some elder Mitsouko. That is less elegant, tends to rough compared to the new formulation.

    The younger Vetiver is the completest take on vetiveral aspects I've ever encountered. Nearly undetectable but still dirty clean aromatic. It is at least as true to the nutty root as Givenchys while as grassy as Guerlains.

    One has to consider that once contemporary perfumery had to deal with very few synthetics and a lot of naturals. All naturals or near all naturals today show similar drawbacks. To prevent from mishmash the compositions have to emphasize at most 2 or 3 components, they hardly shine, the drydown is can be cumbersome (LeZNeZ Antimaterie etc). On the other hand the few synthetics used back then where really hot. So overapplied sometimes. And not at last, the modern instances of former top sellers (which they righteously were) have of course replaced the ancient naturals by more reliable but less satisfying sinthetics of recent availablility.

    When I compare Floramye to e/g Lauder Beyond Paradise I do not feel a great difference in message. The BP is more complex, but the dew virgin morning light is presented by both in same brightness. It is nearly impossible to overapply F while it is still remarkably potent in light usage. Having both around at the same time together is astounding.

    edit: "Well, the link to NST you provided lists a half dozen "noble" Guerlains." TGL, please could You show me how to find them, me dumpy ddodle can't. Thanks in advance.

    http://www.nstperfume.com/2010/05/26...grance-review/
    "Guerlain produced many perfumes with “royal airs” — Bouquet de Duchesse, Délice du Prince, Le Bouquet de Fürstenberg, Esterházy Mixtyre, Bouquet du Roi d’Angleterre, Bouquet du Jardin du roi, Bouquet de l’Impératrice and Bouquet Napoléon."

    I tend towards nostalgia, but it is tricky. I'm sure of the dozen perfumes Guerlain threw on the market annually between 1890 and 1900, the majority is rightly forgotten. Due to technical advances in planting, harvesting and extraction, I believe the sheer quality of essential oils has actually improved - right up to present day CO2 extraction. Whether and how the industry uses them is another question, no doubt and something like Hammam Bouquet is probaly nearly irreproducible in its former glory (though one day I'll ask profumo.it to do it). Guerlain's old 80:20 ratio for natural vs. synthetic tends to be reversed these days even in the high end market, not to speak of the many fully synthetic products. But there are, among the sea of banal releases and profitmongers, still many great perfumes and perfumers out there, able and willing to work with top notch materials. Sheldrake, Dubrana, Tauer, Shiozawa, to name a few. Right now I'm being wowed by a sample of Shirley Brody's XPEC Original. The shittiest packaging in the world, but better than the last ten Creed releases combined, at least in my book .
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  22. #82

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    No way was a modern aquatic such as Erolfa on the Titanic, nor did Eddie Windsor ever wear Windsor - certainly not in its current formulation stuffed with modern synths.
    Truefitt&Hill do claim that their toileteries were recovered from the Titanic wreckage including their cologne Freshman (1815). It also looks like they were on display somewhere. If you have smelled Freshman, you would see that there is no way it was created in 1815 (or certainly not in its current formulation).
    -

  23. #83

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Right now I'm being wowed by a sample of Shirley Brody's XPEC Original. The shittiest packaging in the world, but better than the last ten Creed releases combined, at least in my book .
    Wow seriously - didnt you noticed a truckload of aldehydes and modern synths in that one? I guess we do now have very different tastes
    -

  24. #84

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Indeed. so many great, genuinely old names in perfumery have sunken low. What good is an authentic history, if the current product is no good? Farina Gegenüber was controlled for a while by a Swiss mass-market cosmetics/bath suds producer. Even now that they are fully family-owned again, I cling desperately to my vintage bottles. I'll choose Creed's Bois de Cedrat or Bigarade any day over the current incarnation of Farina. Not to speak of virtually forgotten names like Rimmel, that rot away in low-end drugstore bargain bins. What has become of Coty? Even Guerlain's history and stature did not protect them from the LVMH monsta and the result of that takeover has been, shall we say, mixed. Floris is a shadow of of its former self, Penhaligon's could make great perfumes, if only they spent a little more on good ingredients, Crown is gone, leaving only Trumper holding up the tattered Jermyn Street flag (and Harris, occasionally). Certainly, history must not be confused with quality. And the Creeds that I do like, I like, indeed love, far too much to discard them merely for being offended by their disrespectful marketing (lying to your customers is alway so, IMO, because you are assuming they simply can't handle the truth, enjoy being duped etc. pp.)
    I agree, TGL. I don't like falsehoods.

    As much as I am totally aware of the outrageous "reworking" of the life of the real Comte d'Orsay in the marketing of the perfume house which has taken up his name (the authorisation to use his name and actual signature, if the Web site is truthful, must have come from his sister's descedents, as he had no heirs), I also enjoy my perfumes from this house. I think, however, that Chevalier may be discontinued along with Arome Trois. They still sell Tilleul and Etiquette Bleue. New boxes and new formulae. They even reworked the coronet on the "coat of arms" on the new boxes.

    They are still selling Femme de Dandy in the EDP and now the men's Le Dandy is in the EDP strength, but now without the oakmoss. Still the latter is the same crisp, fresh, boozy scent otherwise.

    And I have a bottle of Royal Delight, to boot, Creed's faux three-feathered emblem nothwithstanding.

    Coty are now making many celebuscents under the company of Coty Prestige, who gave us Vera Wang Princess, and, I think, Lovely by SJP.
    Last edited by Primrose; 18th August 2010 at 03:16 PM.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  25. #85

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    Wow seriously - didnt you noticed a truckload of aldehydes and modern synths in that one? I guess we do now have very different tastes
    No, I think the naturals clearly dominate, in a style not accidentally related to vintage Czech & Speake. Alas, I do not principally mind synthetics in perfume. It's just that Windsor gave me a headache, Aventus gives me pineapple where I don't want it, and is, while pleasant enough, too expensive, I found Love in Black's cheapo cucumber thang ultra-trashy (sorry, know you love it) etc. pp. While XPEC is a great power-masculine trad style floral-spicey chypre, the kind of thing I'd like to see Creed doing if they're going to retire their masculine classics already. And if they did, I wouldn't even care how many unwarranted Prince of Wales plumes they etch onto the bottle.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  26. #86

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    No, I think the naturals clearly dominate, in a style not accidentally related to vintage Czech & Speake. Alas, I do not principally mind synthetics in perfume. It's just that Windsor gave me a headache, Aventus gives me pineapple where I don't want it, and is, while pleasant enough, too expensive, I found Love in Black's cheapo cucumber thang ultra-trashy (sorry, know you love it) etc. pp. While XPEC is a great power-masculine trad style floral-spicey chypre, the kind of thing I'd like to see Creed doing if they're going to retire their masculine classics already. And if they did, I wouldn't even care how many unwarranted Prince of Wales plumes they etch onto the bottle.
    Yes, this IS a very distinctive coat of arms and Creed knows this.

    (The real arms are on the boxes of D.R. Harris products as a real Royal Warrant.)
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  27. #87

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    I found Love in Black's cheapo cucumber thang ultra-trashy (sorry, know you love it) etc.
    I don't know what this "cucumber" note is and never really got it (unlike the one in Wall Street), except that it contains a hefty dose of real quality cedar, buttery ionones, currant and rose (and is one of the more expensive Creed formulas recently)..the hefty-floral spicy wide-landscape fragrances aren't my thing and I dont see Creed doing them anytime soon, but I guess that is a topic for another thread
    -

  28. #88

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    Yes, this IS a very distinctive coat of arms and Creed knows this.

    (The real arms are on the boxes of D.R. Harris products as a real Royal Warrant.)
    I have seen the plumes on many (expensive, unendorsed) decorative items. I am assuming the plumes are for use in the public domain, else the Prince of Wales would have thrown a racket..
    -

  29. #89

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    I have seen the plumes on many (expensive, unendorsed) decorative items. I am assuming the plumes are for use in the public domain, else the Prince of Wales would have thrown a racket..
    I think the_good_life's blog article is to the point about the notion over the three-feathered "arms" being easily mistaken for official endorsement by the Prince of Wales. The logo *looks* like the Prince of Wales' arms. In heraldry, the three plumes in Europe is distinctive enough.

    The key here is confusion of the product identity and its legal grounds.

    For instance, if a sports car company wanted to start up with a sleek big cat crouching as a chrome hood ornament, and then state that "it's a cougar, you see, not a jaguar," I am sure Jaguar would still be very, very interested.

    Someone told me the sound of thundering exhaust pipes is actually a *trademark* of the Harley-Davidson motorcycle!

    BTW, Roberto Cavalli fragrances won a law suit over this concept against Boucheron. Both companies released oriental perfumes (Oro for Cavalli, Trouble for Boucheron) with sensual snake motifs in the advertising and on the bottle. Two different scents with totally different bottles. The ads recalled the seduction of Eve or Lilith. The snake is a very common decorative motif (and was very popular in the Victorian times) with powerful connotations of seduction. In the end, Cavalli won the suit and Boucheron was obliged to change its bottle design. Even a snake on a perfume bottle can be cause for confusion and a lawsuit.

    Knock-off and outright fake products often make parodies or close copies of the original company's logos in order to get around infringement complications. They can be very clever in exploiting the confusion. I often see fake women's handbags that *look* like the "C" logo known for Coach, but actually a very subtle "G" logo on the patterning.
    Last edited by Primrose; 18th August 2010 at 04:51 PM.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  30. #90

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Primrose View Post
    BTW, Roberto Cavalli fragrances won a law suit over this concept against Boucheron. Both companies released oriental perfumes (Oro for Cavalli, Trouble for Boucheron) with sensual snake motifs in the advertising and on the bottle. Two different scents with totally different bottles. The ads recalled the seduction of Eve or Lilith. The snake is a very common decorative motif (and was very popular in the Victorian times) with powerful connotations of seduction. In the end, Cavalli won the suit and Boucheron was obliged to change its bottle design. Even a snake on a perfume bottle can be cause for confusion and a lawsuit.
    So I guess if another niche fragrance company comes out with the plumes etched onto their bottle camps, Creed can actually sue and win...hmmm...
    -

  31. #91

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Duplicate post.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  32. #92

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    So I guess if another niche fragrance company comes out with the plumes etched onto their bottle camps, Creed can actually sue and win...hmmm...
    I don't doubt this at all. Not many people know heraldry these days. Anything that *looks* noble is usu. taken for truly noble.

    A rampant lion and unicorn, add a coronet and--voila--a noble coat of arms.

    I actually like the Juicy Couture "fake" coat of arms with the rampant Scottish terriers! This pokes gentle fun at all those "serious" coats of arms, both real and fake!
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  33. #93

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    http://www.nstperfume.com/2010/05/26...grance-review/
    "Guerlain produced many perfumes with “royal airs” — Bouquet de Duchesse, Délice du Prince, Le Bouquet de Fürstenberg, Esterházy Mixtyre, Bouquet du Roi d’Angleterre, Bouquet du Jardin du roi, Bouquet de l’Impératrice and Bouquet Napoléon."
    Sorry, the link doesn''t work for me. Accidentially the naming game overran the scents. Do You think that any Creed brew smelled if it honestly could have been made 1800+something in the first place?
    Alas, I never had the pleasure to identify any Creed offering anywhere scent wise.

    WOuld You second my observation that older, really vintage perfumes go towards less finished, less shiny, less streamlined compared to contemporary concoctions? 1-2 at most 3 ingredients that counteract to keep it upright and that was it?

    Would anybody 1800+ would have liked a distinctive leather scent as "Royal Leather Milissime Imperial" is supposed to be? As far as I have read people used perfume just to get rid of that ordinary stink!

    ps: I just arrived home and smelled Floramye again on blotter .. despite of my quest for an utterly synthetic scent Floramye is such a simple beauty against Beyond Paradise. Less effort, same effect.
    Last edited by WildThingy; 18th August 2010 at 06:28 PM.

  34. #94

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by WildThingy View Post
    Sorry, the link doesn''t work for me. Accidentially the naming game overran the scents. Do You think that any Creed brew smelled if it honestly could have been made 1800+something in the first place?
    Alas, I never had the pleasure to identify any Creed offering anywhere scent wise. WOuld You second my observation that older perfumes go towards less finished, less shiny, less streamlined compared to contemporary concoctions? 1-2 at most 3 ingredients that counteract to keep it upright and that was it?

    Would anybody 1800+ would have liked a distinctive leather scent as "Royal Leather Milissime Imperial" is supposed to be? As far as I have read people used perfume just to get rid of that ordinary stink!
    http://www.nstperfume.com/2010/05/26...grance-review/
    It was the link you initially posted.

    As I said above, there are a number of Creeds that are clearly based on typical 19th century formulas

    It depends what yu mean by older perfumes. Read Perfumes of Yesterday by David G. Williams - the old formulas are exceedingly complex and at the same time, by the standards of what Coty and Guerlain developed, inept, as they lack the conceptual foundation of head-heart-base working with and against each other. Golden age perfumery is hardly simplistic either, even if the result may seem elegantly simple. I find present-day niche way more rough-hewn, even where it's good. Texture is another matter, many modern scents are indeed smoothed out.

    I must admit I never smelled a genuine old formula for a leather-scenting fragrance, only read them. But in the baroque they would have been stuffed with musks and heavy florals as available. They wolud not have smelled of leather by themselves. The REL sold now is clearly not a 1781 formula, I would agree. It's a 1920s thing earliest, just as Vintage Tab.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  35. #95

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    As I said above, there are a number of Creeds that are clearly based on typical 19th century formulas
    Quite interesting. Could You disclose such baroque formula a Creed is made along? That would be at least a bit of reason behind the Creed thing. Do You feel that some Creed and which if any could have been invented in say 1890 or earlier scent wise?

    ... my scent of today was Encencs Et Bubblegum - cool

  36. #96

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by WildThingy View Post
    Quite interesting. Could You disclose such baroque formula a Creed is made along? That would be at least a bit of reason behind the Creed thing. Do You feel that some Creed and which if any could have been invented in say 1890 or earlier scent wise?

    ... my scent of today was Encencs Et Bubblegum - cool
    Not the baroque style, more of the old simple cologne style:
    Bois de Cedrat
    Citrus Bigarade
    Santal Imperial
    Perhaps Selection Verte
    Royal Scottish Lavender (an old fashioned medicinal-clovey, though actually somewhat complex lavender)
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  37. #97

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Not the baroque style, more of the old simple cologne style:
    Bois de Cedrat
    Citrus Bigarade
    Santal Imperial
    Perhaps Selection Verte
    Royal Scottish Lavender (an old fashioned medicinal-clovey, though actually somewhat complex lavender)
    I can add Windsor to that list ... it seems like a very old world and simple formula...pine, eucalyptus, gin, some rose, and cedar.
    -

  38. #98

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    I can add Windsor to that list ... it seems like a very old world and simple formula...pine, eucalyptus, gin, some rose, and cedar.
    So - Creed is in parts about old fashioned perfumery despite of having been only tailors back than, period. The trick of contemporary heritants of Creeds long tradition of tailoring for royals is to deal with implementations of ancient public domain formulars as if it was their very own property. The other part is - as Luca Turin takes it "vile" concoctions without a hint of eagerness in it. The best verdict seen is "weired confused nothing".

    The quality of the resemblance to ancient colognes is questionable, as nobody could expect to smell the real stuff due to aging issues with the latter. Clandestine Creed uses a heck of synthetics too, just as anybody else does for good today. This in some peculiar way not-so-true business of Creed developed some bloomers as fragrances smelling of leather rather than trying to cover that back then quite objectionable stonk of urine and such: "pecunia non olet" was about feces used to tan animal skin in old Rome to yield leather**, go figure!

    Would it offend anybody to state that Creed is just about that? I personally would like to close the case, which I do with this regarding myself. My interests are as with music directed to the future ;-)

    ** => TRUE!

  39. #99

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by zztopp View Post
    I don't know what this "cucumber" note is and never really got it (unlike the one in Wall Street), except that it contains a hefty dose of real quality cedar, buttery ionones, currant and rose (and is one of the more expensive Creed formulas recently)..the hefty-floral spicy wide-landscape fragrances aren't my thing and I dont see Creed doing them anytime soon, but I guess that is a topic for another thread
    It's the mordern-ish synthetic violet nitrile (CAS 67019-89-0). It's like shellfish or peanutbutter; some people like it, some don't and for others its pleasantness is akin to olfactory anaphylactic shock.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    I must admit I never smelled a genuine old formula for a leather-scenting fragrance, only read them. But in the baroque they would have been stuffed with musks and heavy florals as available. They wolud not have smelled of leather by themselves. The REL sold now is clearly not a 1781 formula, I would agree. It's a 1920s thing earliest, just as Vintage Tab.
    I'm curious, what exactly were old leathers based on? Was it all variations on birch tar?

  40. #100

    Default Re: Creed Royal Warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Zizanioides View Post
    It's the mordern-ish synthetic violet nitrile (CAS 67019-89-0). It's like shellfish or peanutbutter; some people like it, some don't and for others its pleasantness is akin to olfactory anaphylactic shock.
    Thats just one component (violet nitrile, aka nonadiene).

    To me its constructed of woody-iris-green, which indicates thats its a combination of beta ionones (woody iris) and/or iris absolu powder, some green violet leaf absolu./nonadienal http://www.givaudan.com/webcom/v/ind...001053410aRCRD , along with some esters to provide more of that woody-green feel (used more in GIT, with violet leaf absolu).
    -

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