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  1. #1

    Default Does Creed replicate ancient formulas? Is ELDO old fashioned?

    Once I've been told that Creeds merit has been earned partly by ancient (1750++) formulations they replicate. The style has been more on the side of cologne back then.

    Which Creed is known and proved from that batch? The formulations are public domain, so anybody could render such "a Creed".

    ELDO followed the concept of contrasting clearly detectable accords as in Fat Electrician (Vetiver/Vanilla without the astray of Habanita), Jasmine Et Cigarette (ashray on demand), Encens Et Bubblegum (to young to smoke).

    I've learned that perfumery in the "golden age" had a similar concept. On one hand vast complex formulas to smooth the demanding naturals and synthetics. The result on the hand side smells as if only a few components interact, for instance Jicky, Shalimar, #5. My perception of the former ELDO line is that the fragrances are similarily well done.

    Creed suffers from a too old style, rough and confused by a pre-golden paradigma of perfumery? Which cologne would You recommend to investigate the case further?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Does Creed replicate ancient formulas? Is ELDO old fashioned?

    Hi there, since you have a keen interest in Creed fragrances, on their website, they have a service for personalized recommendations based on a client's preferences under "scent finder." Perhaps you can take advantage of that wonderful service. I'm sure they can help you out.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Does Creed replicate ancient formulas? Is ELDO old fashioned?

    Not really sure what you are saying about Creed. A couple of their scents are supposed to date back a long way, but most are much more recent.

    Vintage Tabarome, Royal English Leather and Royal Scottish Lavender reportedly come from many years ago, but are not "on the side of cologne." They are pretty strong scents.

    Vintage Tabarome is no longer available. Tabarome Millesime which is on their site is a more modern forumulation.

    Some of the Creeds are indeed an "old style," but many are much more modern and contemporary. Go into the Directory here and look up Creed. It will list the year issued for each fragrance and show reviews by people who have tried them.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Does Creed replicate ancient formulas? Is ELDO old fashioned?

    Mmmh, I do not intend to bash anything, though I'm a bit disapointed about recent releases from ELDO, namely the punk frag. The latter seems to be a sequel to the celebrity idea but gone banal. I like the "Never Mind"-idea a lot and had the record myself, mmh.

    O/k, the Creed: if some fragrances of that firm are that old, they have to be crude. Simply because perfumery has been so back then judged along todays standarts. Which Creed frag is said to be from 1750, 1800, 1850? Is it made by ancient standarts using that old formulations, or are they modern reinterpretations? I'm afraid the questions asks for some insider knowledge. The reviews don't go that deep down into the history of perfume. Some people doom the whole line as crap, others keep their bottles as icons of good taste and sheer quality.
    I really would like to differentiate a bit more with some educated background besides just taste.

    Thank You!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Does Creed replicate ancient formulas? Is ELDO old fashioned?

    It is quite debatable whether or not the older Creeds have been literally made using the exact same formulas as were used at their purported introduction date. Creed has been accused by many of "making up" much of their past. Personally, I believe there is a grain of truth to much of what they have said, but that it has become grossly expanded over the years in the mouths of SAs.

    Vintage Tabarome (1875) I would say was probably pretty close to the original, whether or not it really came out then or not. I for one do believe that it was/is loaded with natural materials. Creed says they stopped making it due to the difficulty of obtaining the quantity and quality of materials needed. That may be quite true, but I think sales of a scent like that are very slow and made it easy to drop. It is very old style for sure.

    Royal English Leather (1781) is still available and you can try it. While it is quite old fashioned, I tend to think through the years that formula has been tinkered. I do not believe it is created in the same manner it was in 1781 (if that is true). But I would assert it is probably in essence very close to the scent as originally created.

    "Modern" reinterpretations is a relative term if these fragrances really date back that far. For all I know, they reformulated Royal English Leather and/or Vintage Tabarome several times over the years, adjusting to changes in perfume techniques and trying to stay as close to the original scent as possible. Maybe the last "modern" reformulation to Vintage Tabarome was in the 1930s. I don't know. It certainly has a very old fashioned and potent vibe to it.

    If your question is whether or not the formulas for these older Creeds are EXACTLY the same as their purported release dates, then no one in here can truly answer that question. I don't know. They are probably quite similar having made adjustments for new techniques of perfumery over the years. That just seems logical to me.

    We would love to have Oliver Creed post in here, but if he said "Oui, they are the same formulas," no one would believe him anyway. What's the difference? Advertising and "spin" is a part of everything! The car you drive, your toothpaste, your clothes, your government. You either like some of their scents or not.

    The tenor of your query makes me think you are an absolutist, and will easily dismiss Creed without some sort of irrefutable evidence that those are the EXACT SAME FORMULAS. You're welcome to do so.

    Personally, I truly enjoy many of their fragrances and have no issues with when or how they are created. They know what they're doing. If I spoke fluent French, I'd probably try to work for them.
    Last edited by StylinLA; 21st August 2010 at 10:27 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Does Creed replicate ancient formulas? Is ELDO old fashioned?

    Quote Originally Posted by StylinLA View Post
    It is quite debatable whether or not the older Creeds have been literally made using the exact same formulas as were used at their purported introduction date.

    Royal English Leather (1781) is still available and you can try it. While it is quite old fashioned, I tend to think through the years that formula has been tinkered. I do not believe it is created in the same manner it was in 1781 (if that is true). But I would assert it is probably in essence very close to the scent as originally created.
    ...
    The tenor of your query makes me think you are an absolutist, and will easily dismiss Creed without some sort of irrefutable evidence that those are the EXACT SAME FORMULAS. You're welcome to do so.

    Personally, I truly enjoy many of their fragrances and have no issues with when or how they are created. They know what they're doing. If I spoke fluent French, I'd probably try to work for them.
    Please read the tenor as husky compared to my fluent expression in my mothers tongue. But, alas there is a conflict I can't really resolve.

    A "leather scent" from 1781 should no way smell of leather. Back then people knew leather as an unevitabe necessity. It stank to hell due to the production process. A tanners yard was an olfactory doom, decomposition of organic materials, fat, acids, feces (literally). It is instinctively repelling. Btw: I know that stink from my youth in a small town. Any leather then at 1781 carried its dose of debris of that substances to the customer, caused by incomplete rinsing, handmade.
    So, the REL is expected to cover that leather smell rather than to evoke its presence. A practice like that is extensively reported. Soaking gloves with flowerish essences. Conflicting, isn't it?

    I really would like to know which of the Creed line is a true survivor of permanent adjusting its olfactory profile to contemporary taste. You know, I really would like to smell a real ol' perfume just for it's expected weirdness! I'm lurking for strange things ever since, see my addiction to the former ELDO line.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Does Creed replicate ancient formulas? Is ELDO old fashioned?

    Following an 'exact same formula' in all probability won't give and exact replica due to variations in batches, however minute, in quality/strength/purity/measurement of ingredients. The best that can be hoped for even with the most careful attention to detail, is damn close, 'exact' being an absolute adjective.
    'Those who grow too big for their pants will be exposed in the end'--anon

  8. #8

    Default Re: Does Creed replicate ancient formulas? Is ELDO old fashioned?

    I would say Vintage Tabarome and perhaps Royal Scottish Lavender have remained fairly true to their origins. My jury is out on Royal English Leather.

    I think I understand your point about REL. But it is supposed to be a scent which was created to scent the leather, not literally smell like leather or a tannery at the time.

    If you want to smell something that is exactly the same as it was 100+ years ago, I don't know if any scent truly represents that from Creed or anyone else. Even if something is made with 100% natural ingredients, there is going to be a lot of variations in the raw materials over the decades.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Does Creed replicate ancient formulas? Is ELDO old fashioned?

    Agree with the direction of kbe's thinking. Anyone can follow a formula to the letter but still have an inauthentic fragrance. A formula can loosely be interpreted to be a recipe. Just as one can make macaroni & cheese according to Thomas Jefferson's recipe, it won't be quite the same without the 18th century ingredients (likely including traces of lead or who knows what) and just as important, the techniques such as wood-fired kettles and the hand of a well-practiced cook.

    Generally, you'll find that authentic 18th century craftsmanship to be inexact and prone to using shortcuts to save money; they skimped on quality, at times, since there wasn't and equivalent of Basenotes for members to vet them out with reviews. Also, standardization was, well, not very standard. I doubt there was any serious self-regulation and certainly no governmental health agency for manufacturers to contend with.

    With all that, I'm still a strong supporter of making authentic, ancient, fragrances, foods, etc. Just keep the toxic lead, weevils and stuff out.

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