To Guerlain/Shalimar experts : Did I OVERPAY for this "vintage" bottle of 1 oz Shalimar parfum?

[domperrier]

If the photos don't show, here's the auction: http://bit.ly/9PKSND[
The auction closed for $232.50

The seller advertised this as 'vintage , from the 1970s or earlier' but after the auction, I decided to dig up info & discovered that labels with 'Guerlain Paris' are the newer product, and also found out that the bottles from the 60s -70s were actually called 'extrait', which was what I was looking for when bidding.

When I confronted him with this fact, he said that it 'is definitely earlier than the 90s', so now I'm torn as to whether to ask him to cancel the transaction because of misrepresentation in the product description.

Subsequently, I searched online for hours for more info and found nothing very illuminating, except that I'm quite sure the bottle is not from the 70s, and, given the sheen on the label and the 'G' tag, could even be from the 90s or even later!

I saw 1oz pure perfume Shalimars being advertised on sites like FragranceX & Neiman Marcus so I'll be horrified if this is the same product !

Any help is MUCH appreciated!

[Mr. G]

At some point, some years ago, the Shalimar box changed from mauve to night blue, so this edition is not ALL new. I don't know exactly when the box changed though. Your box doesn't have the Marly horse logo inside the lid, so spontaneously, I'd guess it's from somewhere in the 90s. Best thing is always to ask for the batch code underneath the bottle to get a more precise info on the vintage. In any case, it's not a bad price considered the $300 retail price.

[domperrier]

At some point, some years ago, the Shalimar box changed from mauve to night blue, so this edition is not ALL new. I don't know exactly when the box changed though. Your box doesn't have the Marly horse logo inside the lid, so spontaneously, I'd guess it's from somewhere in the 90s. Best thing is always to ask for the batch code underneath the bottle to get a more precise info on the vintage. In any case, it's not a bad price considered the $300 retail price.

Thank you so much for your reply! I was browsing the various threads, and hoping that you would answer my question

Just hope that it's not from after 1994. I do feel bad asking sellers to cancel the contract.

How do I tell the age using the batch code? I'll message the seller asking for the info.

[domperrier]

Thanks to Mr. G for confirming that the bottle indeed dates from 1998.

The buyer is willing to cancel the contract because there was someone bidding at $230 before the auction closed.

I need advice: Should I take up the offer to cancel? I may not have many chances to buy other 1 oz bottles(sealed with box) below $200.

What would you do?

[Mr. G]

Phew, it's a hard nut to crack. What do to? You need a quick decision...

On one hand, I'm one of those people who thinks that "it's not all bad with the LVMH takeover" - I haven't smelled Shalimar extrait from 1998, but when I for instance compare a Mitsouko PdT from 1987 (first batch, very pre-LVMH) and a Mitsouko EdP from 1998 (LVMH), I get no difference whatsoever: It's just as loaded with oakmoss, rich in resin notes, and in all as deep and dark and long-lasting as it was before. Actually, since Mitsouko doesn't mature very well, the old bottle has actually lost a bit of its tension. It wasn't until the IFRA restrictions began to complicate matters some years later that it all went downhill.

That said, I know there is a certain charm about very old Shalimar extrait. Even if the balsamic base notes should not have been changed too much, old bottles have due to age alone matured to a degree that makes them smell quite special, pitch dark and smoky with a medicinal, almost varnish-like biting smell. Shalimar matures extremely well. You won't find the same effect in 90s bottles, LVMH or not.

Maybe you provide your answer yourself: You already seem disappointed about the bottle, you dream about an edition with the Marly horse inside the lid and a label with just "Shalimar" written on it, and you'd maybe not stop chasing this even if you buy this bottle...? Try to envision this scenario. If so, I guess you'd be less dissatisfied if you cancel your bid? Of course, you'd then have to temper your impatience about finding the bottle that you want!

I hope you'll find the least dissatisfactory decision

Thanks to Mr. G for confirming that the bottle indeed dates from 1998.

The buyer is willing to cancel the contract because there was someone bidding at $230 before the auction closed.

I need advice: Should I take up the offer to cancel? I may not have many chances to buy other 1 oz bottles(sealed with box) below $200.

What would you do?

[domperrier]

Phew, it's a hard nut to crack. What do to? You need a quick decision...

On one hand, I'm one of those people who thinks that "it's not all bad with the LVMH takeover" - I haven't smelled Shalimar extrait from 1998, but when I for instance compare a Mitsouko PdT from 1987 (first batch, very pre-LVMH) and a Mitsouko EdP from 1998 (LVMH), I get no difference whatsoever: It's just as loaded with oakmoss, rich in resin notes, and in all as deep and dark and long-lasting as it was before. Actually, since Mitsouko doesn't mature very well, the old bottle has actually lost a bit of its tension. It wasn't until the IFRA restrictions began to complicate matters some years later that it all went downhill.

That said, I know there is a certain charm about very old Shalimar extrait. Even if the balsamic base notes should not have been changed too much, old bottles have due to age alone matured to a degree that makes them smell quite special, pitch dark and smoky with a medicinal, almost varnish-like biting smell. Shalimar matures extremely well. You won't find the same effect in 90s bottles, LVMH or not.

Maybe you provide your answer yourself: You already seem disappointed about the bottle, you dream about an edition with the Marly horse inside the lid and a label with just "Shalimar" written on it, and you'd maybe not stop chasing this even if you buy this bottle...? Try to envision this scenario. If so, I guess you'd be less dissatisfied if you cancel your bid? Of course, you'd then have to temper your impatience about finding the bottle that you want!

I hope you'll find the least dissatisfactory decision

You're sooo right about what's going on in my mind: I'm searching for REAL vintage, not pseudo-vintages, and the syrupy(or at least tannin-coloured) juice is what I'm willing to shell out hundreds for.

If I get distracted by things that may or may not retain their value to collectors over the years, I'll end up emptying my bank account to accumulate 'stuff'.

In my mind, eBay is an environment where there's no sense in shelling out over $200 for anything that isn't in danger of becoming rare(I've only done that once: for a FULL & sealed Lalique bottle of 'Farouche' complete with coffret).

So I'm asking to cancel the transaction!


Another question to Mr. G : Was there ever a box WITHOUT the Marly horse produced?

[AyelFior]

I'm no expert on this (and had asked Mr. G himself :P) but I believe they did make vintage juice without the horse on the box.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/5295670...7624765888198/

I recently bought those off eBay and I believe they're both vintage (glass stoppers, Shalimar label). Mind you, they're only 0.5oz bottles, so I didn't buy what you're looking for :P I believe my bottle on the right, with the Marly horse is dated ~1960-70. The other bottle with the Guerlain-only box is dated a bit later, maybe ~1970-80.

Hope you find what you're looking for!

[domperrier]

I'm no expert on this (and had asked Mr. G himself :P) but I believe they did make vintage juice without the horse on the box.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/5295670...7624765888198/

I recently bought those off eBay and I believe they're both vintage (glass stoppers, Shalimar label). Mind you, they're only 0.5oz bottles, so I didn't buy what you're looking for :P I believe my bottle on the right, with the Marly horse is dated ~1960-70. The other bottle with the Guerlain-only box is dated a bit later, maybe ~1970-80.

Hope you find what you're looking for!

Oooh...AyelFior, I'm most impressed with your haul!

Btw, I bought one just like the one you have on the left of the 1st picture - 1/2 oz(eventually I want to own all the sizes except for the miniature), for around $75 with box, but it has yet to arrive!

[Mr. G]

I think that AyelFior is right that only the very small old boxes came without the Marly horse. Apart from that, I believe that all older Shalimar boxes came with the horse inside the lid... I think you made a wise decision to cancel your bid!

Another question to Mr. G : Was there ever a box WITHOUT the Marly horse produced?

[labellenouvelle]

I inherited a large bottle of Shalimar Extrait, which comes in a purple velvet box, featuring a gold Marly horse inside the lid.

The bottle has never been opened, but there is a beautiful fragrance that is obvious when I open the box. I am in love.

There is a duty stamp/paper on the bottom of the bottle; but I see no idication as the the volume of this bottle.

It measures six inches tall by four inches wide, and bears a beautiful blue fan shaped stopper.

Having said that, I would appreciate any infomation on this little jewel.

Thank you for your courtesy.

[chaplain]

I'm certainly no Guerlain expert, but it sounds like you have inherited a gem!! Do you have any info on how old it might be? The Marly Horse is a sure sign it is vintage. How dark is the juice? Do you noticed much evaporation/concentration? Lots of folks here would drool over your acquisition. (Me, being one of them!) Sounds like a nice big bottle, too. Good for you!

[labellenouvelle]

Oh my, Thank you! To your question regarding the color of the perfume - it's dark. Almost as dark as coffee. Moreover, it's never been opened, as the cording remains perfectly attached. The bottle is full, so it doesn't appear to have suffered any loss due to evaporation.

As to the age of my perfume - I can only guess. The inside of the purple box bears the the Marly Horse, but I'm at a loss as to what other clues may exist.

A mystery and a treasure!

[chaplain]

The darker the "juice" the older it is. Shalimar that is dark and syrupy is usually very good. Shalimar ages well--kind of like fine wine! The fact that the bottle shows no signs of evaporation is also very good. Heat can cause fragrances to evaporate/turn. So yours may have been stored fairly well.

The Marly Horse on the box dates from the 50's-60's I believe. Not sure when they stopped using it, Mid 60's perhaps, but I can't be sure. No doubt, your perfume is OLD and the large size is also a plus. You could fetch quite the price for it on ebay as vintage Shalimar is the best Shalimar.

I would do some research. Here is link to get you started http://reviews.ebay.com/Shalimar-by-...00000003741408 But there is more info out there. Mr. G, here on basenotes is a guerlain expert and has some info at his website. Check out his profile and see what info you can find.

Congrats on your little treasure. You'd have no problem selling it, I'm sure. But if I were you, I'd keep it and WEAR IT!!! Great stuff. Enjoy!