Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1

    Default Question about civet

    Something I've been wondering about: I've heard that civet is used in fragrance partly as a fixative. This in itself would make me think that it would appear as a basenote, as other fixatives such as sandalwood and oakmoss do. However, in the fragrances containing it which I'm familiar with - Jicky, Mouchoir de Monsieur, Caron Pour Un Homme and Kouros - it seems to appear (certainly at its strongest) in the top notes. Does this mean that it persists all the way through to the basenotes, but in a mellower form, and does its work as a fixative then?

  2. #2
    DeepSilence
    Guest

    Default Re: Question about civet

    Well, i like this type of questions. I don't have answer.

  3. #3
    DeepSilence
    Guest

    Default Re: Question about civet

    Animalic base notes help other notes for projecting. Maybe because of this, it appears to you mid other notes in top! It is what i think.
    Last edited by DeepSilence; 22nd September 2010 at 04:06 PM.

  4. #4
    Basenotes Plus

    JaimeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    5,413
    Blog Entries
    140

    Default Re: Question about civet

    There is natural civet, and then there are artificial civets like cis-Civetone and Cyclohexadecenone-5 (actually a subsitute for muscone). Natural civet's main component is Civetone, a macrocyclic ketone.

    My suspicion is that artificial civets may be less potent than the natural stuff and that they might serve better as top- or mid-notes in perfume compositions. The companies that make them claim that they function as well as the natural stuff for fixation properties.

    Apparently raising civets in captivity to get their perineal secretions is considered a cruel practice because the "harvesting" of the material involves some discomfort to the animals, so the natural stuff is experiencing less demand in the market. Chanel, for example, says they have stopped using the natural material since 1998.
    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

    "Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"

    My Wardrobe
    My Reviews

    Fiat justitia ruat cælum.

    Let justice be done, even if the sky should fall.

    Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus

    Qui nihil potest sperare, desperet nihil.
    Let him who can hope for nothing despair of nothing.

    Male irato ferrum committitur.
    It is an evil thing to arm an angry man.
    —Seneca

  5. #5

    Default Re: Question about civet

    something being a basenote, that does not mean that you won't smell it in the top. most basenotes do. being a basenote means that the molecular size is large, which in turn means the evaporation process takes longer. they just last longer, that's all. however, i have noticed with some musks (the largest of them all, on the border of our odor threshold) that they seem to get more intense over time. (btw, often materials do smell different after some time, certainly with naturals, which consist of top-heart-and-basenotes all by themselves.)
    but, think about it, if you would open a bottle of pure civet, would you expect it not have a smell for some hours?
    of course, topnotes and modifiers (heartnotes) can act as a mask, covering up something in the base that then only seems to occur with time. but that's not usually how perfumers think. they rather extend something from top-to-base, maybe only trying to cover up certain unwanted aspects (a practice much more common in functional perfumery, trying to hide the bad odor of the product itself) that certain aroma materials have as a byproduct, adding something up top that seems to overpower the (often more quiet) basenotes but really rather connects to it, extend, enrich, etc.
    civet has by nature (and this includes civet chemicals) a very, very strong odor, and very outspoken. so if there is a lot of it in a formula, chances are more than a little than you are going to smell it straight away.
    i hope this answers you question.
    best,
    gido.

  6. #6
    Basenotes Plus

    JaimeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    5,413
    Blog Entries
    140

    Default Re: Question about civet

    A little further research yielded some more synthetic substitutes for civet:

    Givaudan :Civette Givco 208
    Odor: civet
    It adds diffusive warmth to fragrances and provides the distinctive effect produced by natural civet in floral-jasmin, amber, oriental, chypre, and tobacco accords. It does not contain any animal extract.

    Robertet :Odoressence Civet 6923
    (w/o animal product)

    Robertet:Crops calendar

    Vigon :Civette Synthetic Cnc
    Odor: Civet

    [http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/ab1059381.html
    ]
    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

    "Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"

    My Wardrobe
    My Reviews

    Fiat justitia ruat cælum.

    Let justice be done, even if the sky should fall.

    Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus

    Qui nihil potest sperare, desperet nihil.
    Let him who can hope for nothing despair of nothing.

    Male irato ferrum committitur.
    It is an evil thing to arm an angry man.
    —Seneca

  7. #7

    Default Re: Question about civet

    jaimeb,

    there are, and have been, much more synthetic substitutes than the ones mentioned already. and believe me, the ones i have smelled are incredibly potent. i find it's better to dilute them to below 1% before use. the one i have here is civetol and it's diluted to 0.2%.
    another thing, animal cruelty is not necessary perse for harvesting natural civet. but it was (and probably still is) common practice. of course, the animals have to be kept captive in order to obtain the civet, but from what i understand they will 'mark' poles in their cages all by themselves as this is their natural behavior, and the civet can then be scraped of the poles. no need to hurt the animals. but one would need to visit the source in order to be sure there is no cruelty involved, and the animals can live in reasonable circumstances. (which depends on personal judgment, and the farmers might present you with an image that's far better than reality).

  8. #8
    Basenotes Plus

    JaimeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    5,413
    Blog Entries
    140

    Default Re: Question about civet

    Quote Originally Posted by gido View Post
    jaimeb,

    there are, and have been, much more synthetic substitutes than the ones mentioned already. and believe me, the ones i have smelled are incredibly potent. i find it's better to dilute them to below 1% before use. the one i have here is civetol and it's diluted to 0.2%.
    another thing, animal cruelty is not necessary perse for harvesting natural civet. but it was (and probably still is) common practice. of course, the animals have to be kept captive in order to obtain the civet, but from what i understand they will 'mark' poles in their cages all by themselves as this is their natural behavior, and the civet can then be scraped of the poles. no need to hurt the animals. but one would need to visit the source in order to be sure there is no cruelty involved, and the animals can live in reasonable circumstances. (which depends on personal judgment, and the farmers might present you with an image that's far better than reality).
    You obviously have much more knowledge of civet (and other aspects of perfumery as well) than I do, so I am happy to read what you wrote. I am not in the business of making perfumes or (at this point) even getting samples of individual notes. My interest is simply as a consumer and admirer of perfumes. I do enjoy looking up stuff on the 'net and in books. It seems natural civet is disappearing from perfumery these days, and that other animal notes (except for beeswax) are declining, too. It's too bad that these traditions are being lost, although I understand that there are often good reasons for not harvesting these products any more.

    What seems to me more sinister, however, is that the synthetics industry seems to be organizing to get more and more botanical naturals banned or controlled also. It seems that they are doing this more out of economic self-interest than concern for public safety, although they throw up that cloud to have a plausible pretext for their manipulation of the market...
    Yr good bud,

    JaimeB

    "Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"

    My Wardrobe
    My Reviews

    Fiat justitia ruat cælum.

    Let justice be done, even if the sky should fall.

    Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus

    Qui nihil potest sperare, desperet nihil.
    Let him who can hope for nothing despair of nothing.

    Male irato ferrum committitur.
    It is an evil thing to arm an angry man.
    —Seneca

  9. #9

    Default Re: Question about civet

    I've tried wearing straight civet tincture and it definitely has this quality of coming on sharp and fecal and then mellowing fairly quickly to something less rank. Haven't worn any dilutions of civet replacements, so I can't compare. It's certainly not as long lasting as, say, patchouli or vetiver.

    I've worn fragrances where civet jumps out at once ( Jicky; MKK ) and also fragrances where it peaks through in the drydown ( Sarrasins comes to mind ). I suspect a big part of it is how civet-dominant the particular composition is.

Similar Threads

  1. Civet smell
    By Sanzio in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 30th January 2014, 11:40 PM
  2. Civet
    By Asha in forum Note Pad: Single Note Exploration
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 10th December 2013, 04:28 PM
  3. Any civet fans out there?
    By costello in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 27th November 2013, 07:10 PM
  4. More Civet Anybody?
    By afraafra in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 21st July 2008, 08:51 AM
  5. Can we talk civet?
    By Off-Scenter in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 1st March 2007, 12:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •